How many more times would it take for Roger to overcome Nole for his #18?
- Thread starter dpli2010
- Start date
mattosgrant
Banned
It aint happening. If he isnt getting it done on grass it wont happen anywhere. He can still beat Djokovic in the odd best of 3, but that is as good as it gets. If Federer somehow gets #18 (and IMO he wont) it wont be by playing Djokovic to do it.
mattosgrant
Banned
Yeah current Nadal could fall to Federer at Wimbledon or the U.S Open I think (I still think Nadal even today would beat Federer at the Australian or French if they were to meet, especialy in a semi or final). The problem would be having Nadal get that far to play him, which would likely require some upsets in the draw given Nadal's new level.
swordtennis
G.O.A.T.
He would of had 18 already if Djokovic did not become so good on grass. I kinda want him to get number 8. If Djokovic won the french this year Federer prob would have gotten 18. If Djokovic wins one of the first majors next year hope Federer gets number 8.
Added Federer needs djokovic to win the french in a way. After That Win he would prob be taken out or be flat at Wimbledon.
Added Federer needs djokovic to win the french in a way. After That Win he would prob be taken out or be flat at Wimbledon.
xan
Hall of Fame
this. well (murray is 2nd in the race atm)
problem for him is, djokovic doesnt lose before finals it seems.
mattosgrant
Banned
Well except the French. I would favor all of Djokovic, Nadal (yes even today), Wawrinka, Murray (based on his clay level this year), probably Berdych, and possibly some others over him on clay today.
zagor
Bionic Poster
As others have already said, Fed ain't beating Novak in a BO5 again (though something tells me the OP is well aware of that). Not something that should be held against him considering the circumstances but it's just the way it is.
Problem is, Murray could easily overtake him at #2 this year which would spell further trouble for Fed. Bottom line is, at this stage of his career Fed needs a lot of luck to bag that last one, everything needs to fall in place for him (the draw, his form, being injury-free, not facing Novak or probably even Stan outside Wimbledon, not running into a zoning big hitter etc).
Would like to see him do it but I wouldn't bet on it.
Problem is, Murray could easily overtake him at #2 this year which would spell further trouble for Fed. Bottom line is, at this stage of his career Fed needs a lot of luck to bag that last one, everything needs to fall in place for him (the draw, his form, being injury-free, not facing Novak or probably even Stan outside Wimbledon, not running into a zoning big hitter etc).
Would like to see him do it but I wouldn't bet on it.
ANDYbhGENIUS
Professional
What is left from discussing Fed's potential for an 18th - is the fact that he plays dream tennis in some of the earlier rounds at slams, but drops off his level in the big matches (BH Drive Shanks UEs). The match vs Murray at Wdon 2015 in the semis was a one off imo, as he was rampant, didn't shank a single BH, and served like a dream.
Other than that Fed in recent years most of the time underperforms on the biggest stages, and it is a purely mental issue, which i am sure Fed is barely aware of. But he was close on the grass, yet failed to play steady enough and with conviction and relaxation, which would have likely resulted in a 18th, or at least a classic and epic battle. He simply has more weapons and technique in full flow than djoko.
So it's those intangibles that determine most of the outcome of individual matches.
Other than that Fed in recent years most of the time underperforms on the biggest stages, and it is a purely mental issue, which i am sure Fed is barely aware of. But he was close on the grass, yet failed to play steady enough and with conviction and relaxation, which would have likely resulted in a 18th, or at least a classic and epic battle. He simply has more weapons and technique in full flow than djoko.
So it's those intangibles that determine most of the outcome of individual matches.
C
Cenarius
Guest
I just simply don't see it. :-[ :-[ :-[
moonballs
Hall of Fame
Even french he is at least even with Murray and better than Berdych. Stanimal will beat anyone but he might not show up. Nadal won't be in finals anymore.
Yup, agree 100%.
Federer needs the kind of luck he had between RG 2009 and AO 2010. It was clear by the end of AO 2009 that he was not going to beat Nadal to win a slam. He realized that too. But he got that window of 4 slams and made the most of it by winning 3 of those and almost winning the 4th. I don't think he will be able to beat Djokovic in BO5 to win a slam.
tennis_commentator
Hall of Fame
Given that Djokovic lost to Nishikori at the US Open last year, he can definitely lose to Federer at the US Open.
Novak is always in a bad state mentally and physically at the French, therefore losing that wouldn't have stopped him from beating fed.
Don't even try to claim that fed is better than Novak on grass.
Fed barely scraped past Roddick when he was 22 and 27. Roddick's serve was just a ping pong shot, and fed had to serve extremely flat on the lines to get through 2-4, 0-40 and set point deficits. Fed required great concentration just to save the 4th set at the 2006 U.S. open and struggle by 3 match points down at the masters cup versus a one dimensional Roddick.
Novak pounded Roddick 6-2 6-2 on grass to show who was the best player in the world. Roddick couldn't play him again because he had the injury excuse.
Don't even try to claim that fed is better than Novak on grass.
Fed barely scraped past Roddick when he was 22 and 27. Roddick's serve was just a ping pong shot, and fed had to serve extremely flat on the lines to get through 2-4, 0-40 and set point deficits. Fed required great concentration just to save the 4th set at the 2006 U.S. open and struggle by 3 match points down at the masters cup versus a one dimensional Roddick.
Novak pounded Roddick 6-2 6-2 on grass to show who was the best player in the world. Roddick couldn't play him again because he had the injury excuse.
mattosgrant
Banned
With his ranking Nadal can meet Federer in any round, and if they play at the French, even today, Nadal will always win. Also if Djokovic goes out, it is always possible for Nadal to make the end at the French, again even today.
moonballs
Hall of Fame
Great! Let's all root for another Fedal match, ASAP actually.
It's not like Novak and Murray were trying their best in all those slam matches.
Novak obviously doesn't need to go into full power serve and ballet maestro mode.
Why should he? He doesn't praise himself effusively for being a pretty shotmaker.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Djokovic raises his game for Federer these days, it would take an off day from Djokovic and a very good day from Federer to get #18. Don't think it's at all likely at this point. Federer is probably done but I hope to see him sneak out 4 or so titles a year for a bit longer, I think reaching 95+ titles would be an awesome achievement.
sportsfan1
Legend
The bolded part is a myth. Federer has been playing consistently well against Murray; since 2011 he's 7-3 against him, and on a 4 match winning streak. In the same period, he's 7-15 (2-5 in Slams) against Djokovic. If we look at this objectively, that just says that he can compete well against Murray, but has a lot of trouble against Djokovic.
He has to play well out of his comfort zone againt Novak, having to go for more including on the serve, knowing the odds are against him in the rallies. This leads to more errors, and I would say this is much more due to the difficulty of playing and pressure created by Novak, although a lot of people think of it as an off day. But how can Federer play great tennis the entire tournament and then always underperform precisely against the same player each time - 2014 Wimby, 2015 Wimbledon and 2015 Rome? I would attribute that to Djokovic more than to "mental issues" or "off day".
O
OhYes
Guest
How many more times would it take for Roger to overcome Nole for his #18?
Easy thing - just watch this 'till the end of time.
Easy thing - just watch this 'till the end of time.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
If Kyrgios makes the final, he'd probably win the whole thing. I agree.
Good post. Federer now has lost last three matches against Djokovic on three different surfaces. His last win was in Dubai which was extremely close encounter in which he prevailed with beast serving and that surface, crowd favours him heavily. In last three Final losses to Novak, he was coming off beating semifinal opponent in straight sets every time. There was talk about how he is "GOATing" and will surely keep match against Novak very close or possibly win it. (Wimbledon match) Things actually went in reverse direction. He lost IW Final in three sets which he easily could have lost 6-3 6-2. He lost Rome Final 6-3 6-4 but it was rather expected outcome on clay. In Wimbledon Final on his best surface, he was supposed to be playing his best Tennis in recent years, yet he was lucky to get just a set in TB in which he was forced to save 6-7 SPs. All this shows Federer still can play very high levels of Tennis and he can surely "GOAT" against Murray, Berdych etc, but his best level at the age of 33 is simply not good enough to beat 2015 Djokovic. Still his level is amazing and should not be underrated due to his age. If Djokovic was playing like his 2012-14 standards, he would have his chances even on clay. This looks like another 2011 like dominant season for Djokovic and his level is just too high for Old Man. His chances against Djokovic are limited to low bouncing, fast hard courts like Shanghai, Dubai and in BO5 he sadly stands no chance against current Djokovic. He has to do same thing whole Men's field doing now - Patiently wait for drop in Djokovic's level or grab an opportunity if someone like Anderson upsets World #1.
About #18, I will chose Murray or Berdych as Final opponent for him. He will be beating limited players like these in mid forties.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Federer is a solid no 2 in the world, just destroyed the world no 3 in the SF in the biggest tournament in the world and played a decent match against the dominant no 1 in the final. What are you talking about?
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
I though it was 50/50 legs/mentality that failed him in the two most recent Wimbledon's finals against Nole, and specifically, the fatigue legs degraded his metal strength...
Djoker was hitting solid serves. the oldie wasn't good enough with only 1-3 bad returns either.
Just because Murray stunk didn't mean fed was brilliant. Oldie was similar to 2004 fed...
The ESPN propaganda failed for fed.
but he won his last Grand Slam in 2012
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Murray won his last Slam 2 years ago. Should he retire too?
What about Nadal? He won his Slam in June 2014 and probably won't have a decent chance to win another until the 2016 FO, should he retire?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
You see Fed winning another major t_p?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
If Djokovic gets upset - my money's on Federer to win Wimbledon or the US Open IF he has a fairly easy draw. If I were a betting man I'd say no and maybe a 10-15% chance of him winning 1 more.
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
If he also avoids Seppi and Robredo, I agree with you.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
If he also avoids Seppi and Robredo, I agree with you.
Seppi and Robredo aren't gonna beat Federer at Wimbledon or the US if he's healthy.
Fed would need the top 20 to be out in both the AO and FO to have a chance, the Seppi loss didn't hurt cause I knew that if he'd gone through he would've lost in the tournament, anyway.
TommyA8X
Hall of Fame
I can understand the case for the FO, but not for the AO. He lost to Seppi by playing pathetic, but besides that match he was ultra consistent in Australia, only losing to other members of big 4. He also played fine (more than fine actually) in Indian Wells, handling everyone except Djokovic with ease.
I guess that doesn't say much for anyone ranked #3 or lower.........
ANDYbhGENIUS
Professional
Just a few facts regarding Murray and Berdych; even to my surprise Fed lost in final stages of GSs to Berdych, Tsonga, and Murray, ALL TWICE, since 2010. Added to that losses to Of course Djoko and Rafa, and lower ranked players like Stakh, Robredo, Seppi, and Cilic on a mission at the USO.
Plus - in addition to my earlier post and not really addressed either on these boards - the facial expression or lack thereof and bodylanguage, of course all started vs Nadal since 2008, but it resurfaces more regularly. Eg wiping his lips very often with his wristband, squeezing his eyes, missing clinchers inexplicably, it seems, not hitting the ball with authority, off the centre, shanking, etc etc. ... Just nervous, tense, restrained and sometimes apparantly resignational, weirdly.
This all his little or nothing to do with "Just Djokovic."
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
That's what he has always been doing to all of his opponents, certainly including Nole, and is what he could always make work during the game hours. It just doesn't work for the current Nole. By "patiently", I assume its regular meaning, be patient during the court time, still applies as his strategy to deal with all other opponents, while its new meaning, a longevity race, specifically applies to Nole...
As to the other Big Four, Andy, he hasn't become a consistent threat to Roger yet...
ANDYbhGENIUS
Professional
There never was big four; we had a big two, than djoko came along, and after that we saw a self destructing beefed up murray who won a major under the tutelege of Ivan Lendl, one of the best in history. Murray really didn't show what major winners are made off of, yet still he won two, one in a wind swept NYC.
Delusions are fine, but have the room and balls to challenge them and those.
Delusions are fine, but have the room and balls to challenge them and those.
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
How you call it, Big Two or Big Four, I guess it doesn't really matter. Personally I consider Andy as one member of that class for who he has been and will be, I am just not sure about the timing or relationship bewteen his rise and the Roger/Nole competition...
TheSopranos
Banned
Hello everybody.
Best of 5 too hard for federer these days against Novakovic.
Best of 5 too hard for federer these days against Novakovic.
ANDYbhGENIUS
Professional
Novakovic - heh
Murray being counted in with the Big Three, thus making it a Big4 , was mainly a press thing, good publicity, and it was in fact based on his Masters1000 tally that he had reached by2012 - I think 8 or 9.
Murray being counted in with the Big Three, thus making it a Big4 , was mainly a press thing, good publicity, and it was in fact based on his Masters1000 tally that he had reached by2012 - I think 8 or 9.
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