Is Caitlin Clark more popular than Djokovic & Medvedev?

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Can't believe how many people watched the women's college basketball finals between South Carolina and Iowa.
Was it mostly due to Caitlin Clark? Supposedly, she just signed an 8 figure deal with Nike.

2024 College Women's Basketball Final: S. Carolina vs Iowa - 18.7 million viewers

2023 US Open Men's Final: 2.3 million viewers
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
It won't translate to having enough people to go to her games to make the WNBA profitable.

The WTA isn't profitable either, but they've managed to get equal prize money at joint events by selling off a 20% stake and a "Secret Subsidy" from the Women's Tennis Association. The WNBA only costs the NBA something like $15 million a year. Which they're happy to pay for the "goodwill". Basically the same thing the Slams are doing in tennis. They make so much money, they can afford to "waste" several million on the WTA for the "goodwill". In the current political climate, it's a smart investment for them I think.


Tennis has long trumpeted the fact that its biggest events pay equal prize money to male and female performers. Yet this impression of equality is being maintained only via a secret subsidy of almost £25 million from the Women’s Tennis Association.
The hidden investment is propping up female prize money at the four biggest combined events below the slams: namely Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Beijing. The Association of Tennis Professionals, which runs the men’s tour, makes no equivalent direct contribution towards event prize money.
The hidden subsidy is not the creation of WTA chief Steve Simon, but dates back well before his appointment in 2015. Each successive head of the WTA must have hoped that the societal march towards gender equality would eliminate the pay gap, by levelling up the market value of the women.
Advertisement

In the event, the opposite has happened. The ATP has been able to grow revenues off the back of the golden generation of Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Yet these combined events have not lifted the pay offer commensurately for the women. In a classic example of tennis’s dysfunctional governance, the ATP is setting the level for prize money at combined events, but the gap with the WTA is only growing larger.
This places the WTA in a potentially unsustainable position over the long term. The sums are most significant at the four Premier Mandatory tournaments. The owners of these events – who include Oracle billionaire Larry Ellison for Indian Wells, and super-agency IMG for Miami and Madrid – are paying only 38 per cent of prize money.
The WTA is stumping up the other 62 per cent, which comes to almost £4.4 million per tournament. Six other significant events – Doha, Dubai, Wuhan, Rome, Cincinnati and Toronto/Montreal – are also being subsidised in a similar way. Here is the background for a scathing editorial published last week by John Millman, formerly a member of the ATP Player Council, on the news.com.au website.
Advertisement

“Equal prize money between men and women in tennis can be put to bed,” wrote Millman. “It won’t be happening. Principles and tennis equality have been thrown out the window thanks to some poor decision-making by the WTA.”
Millman did not mention the hidden subsidy, but he did list the relative incomes of the tours from 2021, which found the ATP on £142 million and the WTA on £71 million.
For purposes of comparison, the ATP’s golfing cousin at the PGA generated £1.28 billion in revenues in 2021, but then it runs events itself, whereas the tennis model involves leasing franchises to third parties. The WTA’s ongoing commitment to equal prize money at the big events has placed a huge strain on its finances.
On signing a four-year, £64 million deal with new sponsor Hologic last year, it front-loaded its income, receiving £40 million at once to help with cash flow. It then sold off 20 per cent of its commercial operation to private equity firm CVC in March, in return for another £120 million of ready funds.
The subsidy was particularly useful for the recent Mutua Madrid Open, which stood accused of discriminating against female players on scheduling and other issues. The criticism would surely have grown far louder had it been generally known that the tournament was supplying less than £3 million of the £7 million prize money received by champion Aryna Sabalenka and her rivals.
Coco Gauff (L) Jessica Pegula (C)  Victoria Azarenka (R) - The secret £25m subsidy propping up WTA prize money

Recent weeks have seen high-profile players like Jessica Pegula (centre) speak out on the prize money disparity CREDIT: Getty Images/Clive Brunskill
When tournaments are challenged on prize money differentials, they usually point to market forces. Recent figures suggest that combined events such as Madrid have been receiving almost 10 times as much from ATP Media as they do from the WTA’s equivalent TV deal with Perform.
The four grand slams are anomalies in genuinely paying out equal prize money, but it could be argued that they are so rich, they can afford to be governed by principle as opposed to strict commercial logic. The WTA’s commitment to equal prize money exists only at the largest tour events outside the slams.
Lower down the pyramid, the sums have long been known to be unequal. A study undertaken by the Financial Times last year determined that “the total prize money awarded on the men’s tour so far this year is 75 per cent higher than on the women’s, the widest the gap has been since 2001”.
The picture is further complicated by the ATP’s bonus pool and profit-sharing systems, which offer £16 million to the top 30 players among other benefits. There is no equivalent on the WTA Tour. Telegraph Sport asked the WTA for comment on these issues and received the following reply:
“The WTA has always and will continue to push towards the equality our athletes deserve and to ultimately achieve equal levels of compensation at all levels of our Tour. The Millman article and thoughts you raised about Madrid are both flawed and accurate at the same time.
“The issue of equal prize money is not about strategy as both Tours have similar strategies. It is about the realities associated with the value the marketplace pays for the rights of a women’s sport property vs. that of a male sports property. As pointed out by Mr Millman, there is a significant difference in the rights fees and sponsorship fees paid by the market for what is a similar set of rights.
“This is unfortunately true across all women’s sport properties and is the direct result in the differentiation in compensation levels we see. It is time for the marketplace to step up and support women’s sport properties at the levels they deserve. Events such as Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Beijing that pay equal prize money deserve the acknowledgment and appreciation for their commitment in this space.
“Despite the difference in distribution levels that are provided to these events by the ATP and WTA, each of these events have committed to making the incremental investment from those ticket and event- related sales to make sure that all athletes are compensated equally as deserved. They should be celebrated, and with Rome’s recent announcement that it will be paying equal prize money by 2025, progress, while never fast enough, is being made.”
 
Last edited:
Hope you don't get too tired carrying those goalposts, grandpa.
The WNBA has never had a profit in the 26 years that it has existed. Never. Women make up around 50% of the population of the US. If women supported the WNBA like men support the NBA then it would make the same amount of money as the NBA. Not sure what you mean by "goalposts".
 

happyandbob

Legend
The WNBA has never had a profit in the 26 years that it has existed. Never. Women make up around 50% of the population of the US. If women supported the WNBA like men support the NBA then it would make the same amount of money as the NBA. Not sure what you mean by "goalposts".
The NBA never turned a profit and was on the verge of bankruptcy before Magic and Bird joined the league
 
The NBA never turned a profit and was on the verge of bankruptcy before Magic and Bird joined the league
That is incorrect.
By 1949, the NBA had turned a corner. The league was up to 17 teams, more than doubling what it was. Teams were turning profits. The rebranding to the NBA was complete. And with the evolution in the boardrooms complete, it was time to evolve on the floor as well.
 
Last edited:

happyandbob

Legend
That is incorrect.


"It’s hard to argue with Barkley’s assessment, and it’s widely known that Magic and Bird basically saved the NBA when it was on the brink of bankruptcy and extinction."
 
It doesn't matter to me. I don't watch or follow basketball. Men's or Women's. But to think Clark will make the WNBA profitable is wishful thinking(but if she does, good for her).
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
"Given the same opportunities"? They have been given the exact same opportunity as men. WNBA have been given their own league.
The NBA plays in 20,000 seat sold-out arenas. The WNBA plays in those very same 20,000 seat arenas and 1000 people show up.

Bart and his fellow travelers are demanding higher pay but yet Bart is not buying tickets. Very odd.


 
Last edited:

GAS

Professional
Tickets for men's Final Four were a lot cheaper than tickets for women's Final Four.

Personally I think next year they should just have the women's Final Four. If the men want to have their own Final Four, they should have a product that is interesting for the audience.
 

happyandbob

Legend
Tickets for men's Final Four were a lot cheaper than tickets for women's Final Four.

Personally I think next year they should just have the women's Final Four. If the men want to have their own Final Four, they should have a product that is interesting for the audience.
The men's FF was boring AF this year. Last two women's FF have been exciting. I found women's basketball hard to watch before the last two final fours.
 

Better_Call_Raul

Hall of Fame
Klay Thompson. $50 million a year. 0-10 in an elimination playoff game.
Zero points! Warriors need to replace overrated grossly overpaid Klay with Caitlin.
Caitlin can certainly do better than 0-10.

Warning: Extremely disturbing graphic choking content.


 
Last edited:

tennis3

Hall of Fame
Tickets for men's Final Four were a lot cheaper than tickets for women's Final Four.

Personally I think next year they should just have the women's Final Four. If the men want to have their own Final Four, they should have a product that is interesting for the audience.

This year, the two women's semifinal games will take place Friday evening at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse in downtown Cleveland, home to the NBA's Cavaliers. That arena seats about 19,400 attendees.

By contrast, the men's Final Four will take place at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Ariz., an NFL stadium that usually hosts the Arizona Cardinals. That venue is much larger; when configured for basketball, it's capable of seating as many as 73,000 people.



You want to look at the TV audience for the Finals (and only the finals, not the entire tournament). Not the ticket sales.

Here, let me help you with your trolling a bit. You want to selectively Cherry Pick the info in this article that supports your trolling (not everything). You don't seem very good at this:

 
Last edited:

GAS

Professional
This year, the two women's semifinal games will take place Friday evening at Rocket Mortgage FieldHouse in downtown Cleveland, home to the NBA's Cavaliers. That arena seats about 19,400 attendees.

By contrast, the men's Final Four will take place at State Farm Stadium in Glendale, Ariz., an NFL stadium that usually hosts the Arizona Cardinals. That venue is much larger; when configured for basketball, it's capable of seating as many as 73,000 people.



You want to look at the TV audience for the Finals (and only the finals, not the entire tournament). Not the ticket sales.

Here, let me help you with your trolling a bit. You want to selectively Cherry Pick the info in this article that supports your trolling (not everything). You don't seem very good at this:


Thanks for the mansplaining, bro.
 

tennis3

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the mansplaining, bro.
Perfect, you're back on track!!

Just stick to these "digs". You seem to be very good at this. I can't reply to "mansplaining" without looking bad. Just stay away from fact based discussions and you'll do well.
 

GAS

Professional
Perfect, you're back on track!!

Just stick to these "digs". You seem to be very good at this. I can't reply to "mansplaining" without looking bad. Just stay away from fact based discussions and you'll do well.

What are you talking about, man?! I put forward some facts, the link you posted confirms what I said above.

But hey, I gotta give it to you. You people most times just start yelling "woke" and something something Joe Biden. You actually got some facts out and offered a link to npr.com. Maybe there is a way to cross this big divide after all.
 
Thanks for the mansplaining, bro.
Sometimes it is needed.
And now the government has changed the rules of Title IX so men will be allowed to compete against women. So government intervention will actually lead to less opportunities for actual women. Congratulations, feminists.
 

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
The WTA isn't profitable either, but they've managed to get equal prize money at joint events by selling off a 20% stake and a "Secret Subsidy" from the Women's Tennis Association. The WNBA only costs the NBA something like $15 million a year. Which they're happy to pay for the "goodwill". Basically the same thing the Slams are doing in tennis. They make so much money, they can afford to "waste" several million on the WTA for the "goodwill". In the current political climate, it's a smart investment for them I think.


Tennis has long trumpeted the fact that its biggest events pay equal prize money to male and female performers. Yet this impression of equality is being maintained only via a secret subsidy of almost £25 million from the Women’s Tennis Association.
The hidden investment is propping up female prize money at the four biggest combined events below the slams: namely Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Beijing. The Association of Tennis Professionals, which runs the men’s tour, makes no equivalent direct contribution towards event prize money.
The hidden subsidy is not the creation of WTA chief Steve Simon, but dates back well before his appointment in 2015. Each successive head of the WTA must have hoped that the societal march towards gender equality would eliminate the pay gap, by levelling up the market value of the women.
Advertisement

In the event, the opposite has happened. The ATP has been able to grow revenues off the back of the golden generation of Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal and Novak Djokovic. Yet these combined events have not lifted the pay offer commensurately for the women. In a classic example of tennis’s dysfunctional governance, the ATP is setting the level for prize money at combined events, but the gap with the WTA is only growing larger.
This places the WTA in a potentially unsustainable position over the long term. The sums are most significant at the four Premier Mandatory tournaments. The owners of these events – who include Oracle billionaire Larry Ellison for Indian Wells, and super-agency IMG for Miami and Madrid – are paying only 38 per cent of prize money.
The WTA is stumping up the other 62 per cent, which comes to almost £4.4 million per tournament. Six other significant events – Doha, Dubai, Wuhan, Rome, Cincinnati and Toronto/Montreal – are also being subsidised in a similar way. Here is the background for a scathing editorial published last week by John Millman, formerly a member of the ATP Player Council, on the news.com.au website.
Advertisement

“Equal prize money between men and women in tennis can be put to bed,” wrote Millman. “It won’t be happening. Principles and tennis equality have been thrown out the window thanks to some poor decision-making by the WTA.”
Millman did not mention the hidden subsidy, but he did list the relative incomes of the tours from 2021, which found the ATP on £142 million and the WTA on £71 million.
For purposes of comparison, the ATP’s golfing cousin at the PGA generated £1.28 billion in revenues in 2021, but then it runs events itself, whereas the tennis model involves leasing franchises to third parties. The WTA’s ongoing commitment to equal prize money at the big events has placed a huge strain on its finances.
On signing a four-year, £64 million deal with new sponsor Hologic last year, it front-loaded its income, receiving £40 million at once to help with cash flow. It then sold off 20 per cent of its commercial operation to private equity firm CVC in March, in return for another £120 million of ready funds.
The subsidy was particularly useful for the recent Mutua Madrid Open, which stood accused of discriminating against female players on scheduling and other issues. The criticism would surely have grown far louder had it been generally known that the tournament was supplying less than £3 million of the £7 million prize money received by champion Aryna Sabalenka and her rivals.
Coco Gauff (L) Jessica Pegula (C)  Victoria Azarenka (R) - The secret £25m subsidy propping up WTA prize money

Recent weeks have seen high-profile players like Jessica Pegula (centre) speak out on the prize money disparity CREDIT: Getty Images/Clive Brunskill
When tournaments are challenged on prize money differentials, they usually point to market forces. Recent figures suggest that combined events such as Madrid have been receiving almost 10 times as much from ATP Media as they do from the WTA’s equivalent TV deal with Perform.
The four grand slams are anomalies in genuinely paying out equal prize money, but it could be argued that they are so rich, they can afford to be governed by principle as opposed to strict commercial logic. The WTA’s commitment to equal prize money exists only at the largest tour events outside the slams.
Lower down the pyramid, the sums have long been known to be unequal. A study undertaken by the Financial Times last year determined that “the total prize money awarded on the men’s tour so far this year is 75 per cent higher than on the women’s, the widest the gap has been since 2001”.
The picture is further complicated by the ATP’s bonus pool and profit-sharing systems, which offer £16 million to the top 30 players among other benefits. There is no equivalent on the WTA Tour. Telegraph Sport asked the WTA for comment on these issues and received the following reply:
“The WTA has always and will continue to push towards the equality our athletes deserve and to ultimately achieve equal levels of compensation at all levels of our Tour. The Millman article and thoughts you raised about Madrid are both flawed and accurate at the same time.
“The issue of equal prize money is not about strategy as both Tours have similar strategies. It is about the realities associated with the value the marketplace pays for the rights of a women’s sport property vs. that of a male sports property. As pointed out by Mr Millman, there is a significant difference in the rights fees and sponsorship fees paid by the market for what is a similar set of rights.
“This is unfortunately true across all women’s sport properties and is the direct result in the differentiation in compensation levels we see. It is time for the marketplace to step up and support women’s sport properties at the levels they deserve. Events such as Indian Wells, Miami, Madrid and Beijing that pay equal prize money deserve the acknowledgment and appreciation for their commitment in this space.
“Despite the difference in distribution levels that are provided to these events by the ATP and WTA, each of these events have committed to making the incremental investment from those ticket and event- related sales to make sure that all athletes are compensated equally as deserved. They should be celebrated, and with Rome’s recent announcement that it will be paying equal prize money by 2025, progress, while never fast enough, is being made.”
The whole distinction between men and women is now beginning to seem socially unacceptable. Certainly the current White House policy is to demolish the traditional men/women dividing lines and push for more of a rainbow continuum of sexual identities and behaviours based not on biology but on psychological identity.

It may soon be illegal to maintain a simple men/women classification of sports.
 
"Given the same opportunities"? They have been given the exact same opportunity as men. WNBA have been given their own league.
The NBA plays in 20,000 seat sold-out arenas. The WNBA plays in those very same 20,000 seat arenas and 1000 people show up.

Bart and his fellow travelers are demanding higher pay but yet Bart is not buying tickets. Very odd.


Women's tennis seems to be doing much better than WNBA. I wonder if it's the uniforms. Make the WNBA players wear mini-skirts and see if the attendance is similar to women's tennis? That would be an interesting experiment.
 
As Bob Hope joked in 1975: “I’ve just flown in from California, where they’ve made homosexuality legal. I thought I’d better get out before they make it mandatory.”
 

vokazu

Hall of Fame
Caitlin Clark is a rising star in women's college basketball, but comparing her popularity to established professional athletes like Novak Djokovic and Daniil Medvedev, who compete on the global stage in tennis, is challenging.

Djokovic and Medvedev have larger international fan bases due to the popularity and reach of professional tennis. However, Clark's popularity may be significant within the context of women's college basketball and could potentially grow as her career progresses.
 
Top