Late at making contact with the ball is ok?

[vokazu]

I just stumbled upon a video clip of Ana Ivanovic and Steffi Graf's forehand comparison. The commentator said that they're late at making contact with the ball. I presume it all depends on what you want to do with the ball? Like, you take it early when you want to be aggressive, and when you are defending against a fast ball it's ok to hit the ball late as long as your rhythm is good and you can hit a defensive but deep ball whether it's hit with a high topspin or lob or even a squash shot.

 

[johnmccabe]

That's a bad take. You can also find slow motion videos of Djokovic looking at the net while making contact of a forehand groundstroke. Or Medvedev hitting all sorts of clown strokes beating Djokovic. These pros most likely do the right things more often. Pros get away with a flawed technique sometimes because they perform other things so well. An average rec player lacks so many fundamentals. Thinking it's ok just because some pro did it too occasionally is a slippery slope.

 

[Dragy]

Particularly when defending, I’d strive to make contact properly in front, even if it made me abbreviate the stroke itself. However, of course, if get caught with late contact, you play it as you can. It’s quite often that pros use slice/squash shots when they cannot get to the ball in time, get behind the ball, and end up playing the ball deeper to the side.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Particularly when defending, I’d strive to make contact properly in front, even if it made me abbreviate the stroke itself. However, of course, if get caught with late contact, you play it as you can. It’s quite often that pros use slice/squash shots when they cannot get to the ball in time, get behind the ball, and end up playing the ball deeper to the side.

Graf was not rushed for that ball. Not at all. The announcer claims that is Graf's usual forehand shot.
IF that is her normal stroke, it does not look ideal kinetically. She needs to lead more with the torso. Graf is overly relying on the arm.

If one were to go to a clinic today with a USPTA coach and emply that technique I am sure he would correct contact point. to be more forward.

 

[TennisCJC]

Ummm, I look at this differently. If you think of what many will call "classic" tennis, then the player would step on to the front foot, rotate their core and make contact a few inches in front of their front foot. In this video, both players are rotating on their back foot but they are still making contact a few inches in front of their body and they are still rotating their core. You can actually hit with an open or semi-open stance and pull the front foot backwards as you rotate your hips and shoulders into contact. The key point is loading the back leg and rotating the core forward AND making contact a few inches in front of your body. If you doing all those things, you can still hit well and it is a necessary skill to handle fast deep balls. Graff hit a lot of her forehands with the front foot off the ground as she rotated on her back foot. But again, she got core rotation which moved her weight into the shot and her contact point was out in front of her body. Ideally, it would be good to transfer weight to the front foot as you step forward on to the front foot but it is not always possible. A good drill is to take a few shadow strokes in neutral, semi-open and closed stances and get a feel for your contact spot or contact zone. The contact zone is likely about 6 inches in front of your most forward foot. Then practice and try to "defend your contact zone" by never making contact later than the correct zone. It doesn't matter if you are stepping on to the front foot and then rotating or rotating off the back foot as long as your contact is out front in the zone and you are rotating your core.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Ummm, I look at this differently. If you think of what many will call "classic" tennis, then the player would step on to the front foot, rotate their core and make contact a few inches in front of their front foot. In this video, both players are rotating on their back foot but they are still making contact a few inches in front of their body and they are still rotating their core. You can actually hit with an open or semi-open stance and pull the front foot backwards as you rotate your hips and shoulders into contact. The key point is loading the back leg and rotating the core forward AND making contact a few inches in front of your body. If you doing all those things, you can still hit well and it is a necessary skill to handle fast deep balls. Graff hit a lot of her forehands with the front foot off the ground as she rotated on her back foot. But again, she got core rotation which moved her weight into the shot and her contact point was out in front of her body. Ideally, it would be good to transfer weight to the front foot as you step forward on to the front foot but it is not always possible. A good drill is to take a few shadow strokes in neutral, semi-open and closed stances and get a feel for your contact spot or contact zone. The contact zone is likely about 6 inches in front of your most forward foot. Then practice and try to "defend your contact zone" by never making contact later than the correct zone. It doesn't matter if you are stepping on to the front foot and then rotating or rotating off the back foot as long as your contact is out front in the zone and you are rotating your core.

Not familiar with Graf's stroke. But it does not look like an ideal model for rec players
. She is using open stance in that clip. Camera angle does not clearly show where the contact point is, but it appears to be late.

I use neutral stance and try to make contact in front of my front left foot. I suspect Graf neutral stance contact point would be farther back.
Not ideal. Not enough core rotation into the shot. Too much arm. And yes I'm aware she had the best forehand in history.

 

[Dragy]

@Better_Call_Raul it’s simply old school technique. Even best players of her era won’t look ideal referring to what we know and see now. Even Agassi or Safin or (I’m ready to go that far) early Federer. Neither Sampras, nor Lendl or Borg. But it’s ok, it’s in development.

I believe WTA players are just catching up to best modern templates, but they clearly do, with better coaching now available to girls and ladies for like 15-20 years now.

 

[johnmccabe]

analyzing iga and Medvedev videos frame by frame used to drive me crazy. It's much better to focus on where they are doing right. Now I enjoy watching their matches very much, after realizing what I should be watching/reinforcing my mind and what I should just ignore.

 

[TennisCJC]

Not familiar with Graf's stroke. But it does not look ideal. She is using open stance in that clip and not clear where the contact point is, but it appears to be late.

I use neutral stance and try to make contact in front of my front left foot. I suspect Graf neutral stance contact point would be farther back.
Not ideal. Not enough core rotation into the shot. Too much arm. And yes I'm aware she had the best forehand in history.

Her contact point is well in front of her hips isn't it. She is rotating her hips into the shot. Go to YouTube to watch her videos and you will see she frequently hit while rotating on the back foot but her contact is in front. Note, her grip isn't a SW and is more toward E so her contact doesn't need to be as far in front as a SW player.

 

[TennisCJC]

@Better_Call_Raul it’s simply old school technique. Even best players of her era won’t look ideal referring to what we know and see now. Even Agassi or Safin or (I’m ready to go that far) early Federer. Neither Sampras, nor Lendl or Borg. But it’s ok, it’s in development.

I believe WTA players are just catching up to best modern templates, but they clearly do, with better coaching now available to girls and ladies for like 15-20 years now.

Funny how people see things differently. Graf's grip is a bit old school but her semi-open stance, loading into the back leg, rotating her core off the back leg and upward and across racket path are modern to me. I bet you can find video of Djokovic, Rafa, Roger and Carlos all hitting with similar body mechanics. Old school tennis is more like Chris Evert, Jimmy Connors or John McEnroe where they use neutral stances, step on to the front foot before contact and use Conti and E grips with a little less core rotation. Note, even old school pros used core rotation to some degree but not as much as modern pros.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Old school tennis is more like Chris Evert, Jimmy Connors or John McEnroe where they use neutral stances, step on to the front foot before contact and use Conti and E grips with a little less core rotation. Note, even old school pros used core rotation to some degree but not as much as modern pros.

I use neutral stance with an Eastern grip. When I have time to set up, I get my feet set in neutral stance (I do not step on to the front foot before contact; my feet are planted in neutral stance).

I am working on getting my torso to lead the swing as described in the Ian video. And trying to make contact in front of left foot as in pro pic beow.

From this neutral stance setup, I am not sure which foot I am rotating my core off of. I try to load most of my weight on my back foot and at contact, it feels like my weight is about 60-40 on the front foot. On the finish, almost all the weight is on front foot.

 

[Dragy]

Funny how people see things differently. Graf's grip is a bit old school but her semi-open stance, loading into the back leg, rotating her core off the back leg and upward and across racket path are modern to me. I bet you can find video of Djokovic, Rafa, Roger and Carlos all hitting with similar body mechanics. Old school tennis is more like Chris Evert, Jimmy Connors or John McEnroe where they use neutral stances, step on to the front foot before contact and use Conti and E grips with a little less core rotation. Note, even old school pros used core rotation to some degree but not as much as modern pros.

There may be various elements to consider, and I believe there’s a lot of “progression” if we examine evolution of technique, rather than discrete break through’s.

However, like when you are not a parent of a kid, but see them every once in a while, they change so much! Same here, compare Graff to Barty, Iga or Sabalenka, you see the difference.

One particular thing about Graff and most older school guys and gals, you see lack of uncoiling, no chest facing flat or past flat towards the net/target, and hence a bit overuse of arm (compared to modern technique). Overall, lower RHS and spin.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

One particular thing about Graff and most older school guys and gals, you see lack of uncoiling, no chest facing flat or past flat towards the net/target, and hence a bit overuse of arm (compared to modern technique). Overall, lower RHS and spin.

That is exactly what I see. Too much arm. If the standard is the modern teaching instruction in the Ian video.
Ian wants the rec player student's chest facing the net prior to contact.

I just stumbled upon a video clip of Ana Ivanovic and Steffi Graf's forehand comparison. The commentator said that they're late at making contact with the ball.

Who is that announcer commenting on Graf's forehand?