Let’s talk seriously about the Alcaraz jump serve

[nolefam_2024]

The body peaks later. He's good for at least 10 years of leaping.

I would say 15

 

[travlerajm]

You guys are forgetting how easy it was to dunk as a 5’11” guy when you were 19 years old. That was last time I could do it.

Edit: volleyball, not a basketball, and not quite fully inflated, as I have small hands.

 

[HeIsTreeing]

 

[Serve&Bash]

Is that Travlerajm? man these guys make fabrice santoro look orthodox. Trav is in great shape for someone who is around the age of 50 . Very impressive. Calfslan would be proud.

As for Alcaraz's serve, I don't think he is that much different than many of his peers. Sinner, Rune, Tsitsipas and Shelton have a pretty strong leg drive as well. I think Alcaraz's looks more exaggerated based on how much his right leg trails back after the serve. I think the most extreme examples of this type of serve right now are shelton and shapovalov

 

[HeIsTreeing]

"MEP Seattle (orange shirt) is currently living and playing on red clay in South America. He is an expert in customizing rackets. He started playing tennis in high school and played in the USTA 4.5 league before temporarily moving to South America. In juniors, he was ranked #22 in the Pacific Northwest Section and #12 in state of Washington (1990). He placed 3rd in Washington State High School Doubles Tournament and lastly, he was a Washington State Champion in the 4x100m relay in track and field in 1987."

 

[HeIsTreeing]

 

[dje31]

From the title, I expected that Alcatraz had suddenly adopted one of those running-to-the-service-line jump serves they use in volleyball.

Imagine my disappointment. Meh.

Delete thread

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

No, no, no. Tell me this isn't the guy who was comparing Alcaraz's serve to his own. Please tell me. I've long known the world to be a crazy place. But I refuse to believe it can be THIS crazy.

 

[Shaolin]

Serve resemblance is uncanny. I thought WAS was Alcaraz for a second.

Delpo-like FH as well. Nalbandian BH.

 

[tsurismo5]

Alcaraz serve is definitely a weakness. It’s not very efficient with regard to free points and does not seem effortless enough at all to be sustainably great. I think he really needs to work on a new technique.

 

[travlerajm]

Serve resemblance is uncanny. I thought WAS was Alcaraz for a second.

Delpo-like FH as well. Nalbandian BH.

The MEP match linked above, I was trying hard to play in the style of ‘alternate universe MEP’ of course.

Here is me serving a bit more conventionally, (but 20 years after abandoning the jump serve).

 

[HeIsTreeing]

The MEP match linked above, I was trying hard to play in the style of ‘alternate universe MEP’ of course.

why

 

[travlerajm]

why

Because living a dangerous double life is fun.

 

[HeIsTreeing]

Here is me serving a bit more conventionally, (but 20 years after abandoning the jump serve).

can you serve like this in a match?

 

[jackson vile]

He needs a bigger serve still and to use that and his in court jump to volley aggressively

 

[travlerajm]

can you serve like this in a match?

I used to be a S&Ver on both first and second serve, 100% of points, and believe it or not, I won prize money in open level tournaments in both singles and doubles back in my day, 20-25 years ago, when my serve was much much faster than in the vid above.

 

[HeIsTreeing]

I used to be a S&Ver on both first and second serve, 100% of points, and believe it or not, I won prize money in open level tournaments in both singles and doubles back in my day, 20-25 years ago, when my serve was much much faster than in the vid above.

thats cool, that serve was clean for sure. im not sure if i misunderstood but did you answer my question? is that fast serve consistent enough to use in a match and you chose not to use it against MEP or is it not consistent enough and thats why you didnt use its against MEP

 

[HeIsTreeing]

 

[travlerajm]

thats cool, that serve was clean for sure. im not sure if i misunderstood but did you answer my question? is that fast serve consistent enough to use in a match and you chose not to use it against MEP or is it not consistent enough and thats why you didnt use its against MEP

I can serve like that at night or indoor in Seattle when there is no sun, but I can’t do it in Atlanta in the sun and humidity because of bad sun angle and sweat in my hat and clothing changing my timing too fast.

 

[TheSlicer]

No, no, no. Tell me this isn't the guy who was comparing Alcaraz's serve to his own. Please tell me. I've long known the world to be a crazy place. But I refuse to believe it can be THIS crazy.

Give him a little "juice" and he could compete against anyone, Alcaraz is just a normal kid, barely any talent, he just happens to synthesize juice at lance armstrong levels, you know that, dont play the naive

 

[HeIsTreeing]

Give him a little "juice" and he could compete against anyone, Alcaraz is just a normal kid, barely any talent, he just happens to synthesize juice at lance armstrong levels, you know that, dont play the naive

^^^^^^^^^ yeah lets play natty or not with tennis players. next one up is daniil medvedev, natty or not????

 

[Kralingen]

^^^^^^^^^ yeah lets play natty or not with tennis players. next one up is daniil medvedev, natty or not????

Hopefully not natty, would love to see him get busted and banned from the Tour. Perhaps some jail time if we’re lucky

 

[yonexRx32]

Alcaraz generates a significant fraction of his serve pop, from jumping forward into the court, and relies on extra height from the jump to increase his serve angle window into the box. He relies on elevated jump more than any other top player in history.

This is a concern for anyone expecting big things in the future for the ‘Raz.

Why? Because it’s not sustainable.

How do I know this? I used to have similar jump serve myself. I started playing competitive tennis at age 15. I rode my explosive jump serve as my best shot. It gave me a serving advantage over taller opponents, despite my Carlitosian height.

Unfortunately, my serve prowess peaked at age 20.

30 years later, every other part of my game is much improved from 30 years of practice. But my serve is several levels worse. Since an offensive serve is the most important shot in tennis, my overall level isn’t better.

I expect the same pattern to happen with Carlos. His groundy game will improve, but his results will deteriorate because the jump serve is unsustainable. It taxes the legs too much to be viable as you age.

Totally! 30 years from now Carlito risks finding himself in your situation.. playing worse than today... He must give up that serve.. no doubt.

 

[TheSlicer]

^^^^^^^^^ yeah lets play natty or not with tennis players. next one up is daniil medvedev, natty or not????

No one is, some just know how to hide It better, but i have something to say, i take basically the same "suplements" as Alcaraz, just for recreational use, i like how they make me feel, but i can attest that at 50 his body wont be responding the same to them, im the living druggy proof

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

Give him a little "juice" and he could compete against anyone, Alcaraz is just a normal kid, barely any talent, he just happens to synthesize juice at lance armstrong levels, you know that, dont play the naive

Look, you're preaching to the choir with me when it comes to Spanish "science". But Alcaraz is no "normal kid". He is an insane talent, bred to be the best starting in the cradle - I watched him live in person at age 13 and again at age 16, and I've watched A LOT of juniors since the mid-90s (when I myself was one of them). Ratz was always off the charts. Then again, the pro level is a different beast. That's where the talented doctors come in and make the difference.

 

[Impetus]

Okay. Let’s be serious!

Who wants to begin?

 

[TheSlicer]

Look, you're preaching to the choir with me when it comes to Spanish "science". But Alcaraz is no "normal kid". He is an insane talent, bred to be the best starting in the cradle - I watched him live in person at age 13 and again at age 16, and I've watched A LOT of juniors since the mid-90s (when I myself was one of them). Ratz was always off the charts. Then again, the pro level is a different beast. That's where the talented doctors come in and make the difference.

So Alcaraz is the most talented or has the most talented doctor? Because it supiciously seem to go together in most cases, i honesto dont think he takes anything any other cant take

 

[Baseline_Bungle]

So Alcaraz is the most talented or has the most talented doctor? Because it supiciously seem to go together in most cases, i honesto dont think he takes anything any other cant take

It DOES go together!

A top-notch "science" regimen today requires an army of top-notch doctors, lawyers, PR people etc. all working in unison. That's something only the top guys (or otherwise, perhaps, some insanely wealthy guys) have access to. It's the little fish like Odesnik who are left to score tainted hormones from the drug dealer in the back of the gym - and of course, those are the only guys who'll end up getting caught.

 

[TheSlicer]

It DOES go together!

A top-notch "science" regimen today requires an army of top-notch doctors, lawyers, PR people etc. all working in unison. That's something only the top guys (or otherwise, perhaps, some insanely wealthy guys) have access to. It's the little fish like Odesnik who are left to score tainted hormones from the drug dealer in the back of the gym - and of course, those are the only guys who'll end up getting caught.

well sharapova and halep wernt exactly small fish, i dont know, i dont doubt that players take as much as they can without getting cought, i just dont think tennis is a sport where thats really gonna make the difference, besides recovery maybe, if alcaraz is so fast and strong because of juice, why the rest of top players just arent? thats genetics, no juice is gonna make you react faster or make good decisions on court, this is not cycling, i just dont see the big conspiracy here.

 

[darthrafa]

pushing the ground is diff fr a jump

 

[DSH]

Could you back that up with some kind of data? Because Roddick serve peaked in 2008, when he was 26.
Yes, here's the statistic: https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/playerProfile?playerId=4053&tab=statistics&season=2012

He peaked by winning Majors, he means.

 

[FRV4]

I think the serve could def lead to injuries…if he gets fat. Otherwise he’s prettt light. You’re not wrong about first hand experiences often being the most conclusive, but it’s usually better to wait for the conclusions to be supported by other data, which there could be. But let’s be real. Something’s going on in this world. We’re talking about aliens casually now. You guys ever realize that aliens are not even contradictory to religion?

 

[Shaolin]

Alcaraz serve is definitely a weakness. It’s not very efficient with regard to free points and does not seem effortless enough at all to be sustainably great. I think he really needs to work on a new technique.

Poor Carlo...wait till he hears that his 137mph flat serve and kick serve that jumps into the stands are such a weakness.

 

[travlerajm]

I think the serve could def lead to injuries…if he gets fat. Otherwise he’s prettt light. You’re not wrong about first hand experiences often being the most conclusive, but it’s usually better to wait for the conclusions to be supported by other data, which there could be. But let’s be real. Something’s going on in this world. We’re talking about aliens casually now. You guys ever realize that aliens are not even contradictory to religion?

This is the most thoughtful reply in this thread.

 

[yossarian]

aliens casually now. You guys ever realize that aliens are not even contradictory to religion?

Thread just took a turn

 

[bnjkn]

If you were a hobbit you'd jump as high as you could too. This is not fair to tiny.

 

[travlerajm]

If you were a hobbit you'd jump as high as you could too. This is not fair to tiny.

Here is the hobbit serve elevation for reference.

 

[Shaolin]

Here is the hobbit serve elevation for reference.

Diego uses a 42'' long frame. No need to jump high.

 

[Jonesy]

I think the serve could def lead to injuries…if he gets fat. Otherwise he’s prettt light. You’re not wrong about first hand experiences often being the most conclusive, but it’s usually better to wait for the conclusions to be supported by other data, which there could be. But let’s be real. Something’s going on in this world. We’re talking about aliens casually now. You guys ever realize that aliens are not even contradictory to religion?

There is a good chance that aliens are actually robots like the ending of that AI movie.

 

[robyrolfo]

This thread is way too interesting to let die...

Wait, this guy is claiming to be a 4.5 with an excellent record in a major city? I'm not super well versed in the rating system, but I'm fairly confident that any true 4.5 would completely smoke this guy.

^^^^^^^^^ yeah lets play natty or not with tennis players. next one up is daniil medvedev, natty or not????

Good question. I was just taking to my wife last night about Safulien (spelling?), and how he came out of nowhere, just like Karatsev did, and just like Schevchenko (spelling)... All a bit suspect for sure.

So Alcaraz is the most talented or has the most talented doctor? Because it supiciously seem to go together in most cases, i honesto dont think he takes anything any other cant take

As others have said, to be the absolute best of the best, you need talent and (often) a little help. Lance Armstrong was no scrub. He was absolutely one of the best in the world, if not the best. And in his era, everyone was juiced, so in a way the playing field was leveled.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Why? Because it’s not sustainable.

I can't slam a basket ball like I used to, but I can still jump, shoot and play well enough, even at 50+. And I am not even a life long seriously trained athlete. That is to say, I think he's good and can sustain just fine.

 

[Olli Jokinen]

Agassi outlasted most of his peers (retired at age 36), and he had that vicious leapfrog service action.
And I know people will say he extended his career by being semi-retired in 1997 or by skipping the AO until 1995, but he played WAY more matches than most of his peers because he went deep into events regularly..... and he never missed a US Open.
And even though Agassi "took the ball early" he didn't get cheap points with his serve, and he didn't volley much, so he played a taxing style of tennis.
And I'd say Alcaraz has a more athletic body than Agassi, without doubt.

Please stop with the bold letters. It's annoying to read.

 

[HeIsTreeing]

Please stop with the bold letters. It's annoying to read.

no dont I like it

 

[ElChivoEspañol]

Firsthand evidence is always the most conclusive.

As I have 35 years of firsthand experience with the effects of aging on a once-proud jump serve, I am uniquely qualified to analyze it.

I bet you're also one of the many dudes voting YES on whether they'd take a game off a PRO.

 

[robyrolfo]

I bet you're also one of the many dudes voting YES on whether they'd take a game off a PRO.

Oh, no doubt. I mean, if he manages a game where he can land every one of his big jump first serves.... he will get to see the return balls blasted past him that much quicker as he gets broken to love.