Let's Talk Some NBA 2016-17

[NonP]

MJ would never be riding pine with 4 PFs after 18 minutes of play and his heavily favored team down 16 now in his absence.

Be careful now, our resident stat dummy will be back with more debunked numbers in another desperate, infantile attempt to prove you wrong.

Back in the real world, he's still a streaky shooter but I think a good argument can be made that Boston's best player at this point is not IT but Avery. The guy can't be pigeonholed as a defensive specialist anymore and if he keeps up his improvement he may even catch on with the stat-obsessed pundits.

As for the finals, I think GS in 6 sounds about right but part of me wants this series to be a blowout, if only to see Silver stop pretending all's fine with his precious organization. He shouldn't need the meager ratings to recognize that these superteams are not good for the rest of the league, or even that they're a throwback not to the recent past but to the duopoly of yore.

 

[hollywood9826]

The best player in the world passes mj as the all time playoff scoring leader. Puts up 35/8/8 in a close out game to go to his 7th straight finals.

And there's people who still say dumb things like "lebron has zero shot to pass Jordan" and "kawhai is the best player in the world" But then you realize these same morons also think Kobe is better than lebron, a 4-19 team is a super team, and parrot the 90s bball fans line "defense was sooooo much tougher in the 90s". Guess you can't fix stupid.

People just hate LeBron. He was hyped as a high schooler and everyone was hoping he would not pan out. The fact that there is a chance for him to pass Jordan plays into everyone going the extra mile to hoist his failures up on a pedestal. Jordan got beat around by those pistons, put some weight on and toughened up. Those Pistons would not have been able to beat around a 6'9" 270 pound LeBron.

What if LeBron after leaving Miami said he was going to play TE in the NFL. The consensus would be that he is too soft for basketball and made up an excuse to quit. Then if he came back two years later and won the title they would have figured out some other reason like the league is weak. They guy made one bad decision on the TV show when he left for Miami. But they have always hated him because he was supposed to be the best, turned out to be far and away the best. Is not an A-Hole, so they nitpick the little things and forget he carried the worst team I have ever seen into the finals. Yea he got swept by the Spurs but he had nobody. Jordan never had nobody he always had one of the best two way players of all time and absolute defensive beast in Pippen.

 

[-NN-]

What I do know is that the defence of Jordan by the giant horde of scatty little twats is beyond unscrupulous, but LeBron is certainly not greater.

 

[Noveson]

People just hate LeBron. He was hyped as a high schooler and everyone was hoping he would not pan out. The fact that there is a chance for him to pass Jordan plays into everyone going the extra mile to hoist his failures up on a pedestal. Jordan got beat around by those pistons, put some weight on and toughened up. Those Pistons would not have been able to beat around a 6'9" 270 pound LeBron.

What if LeBron after leaving Miami said he was going to play TE in the NFL. The consensus would be that he is too soft for basketball and made up an excuse to quit. Then if he came back two years later and won the title they would have figured out some other reason like the league is weak. They guy made one bad decision on the TV show when he left for Miami. But they have always hated him because he was supposed to be the best, turned out to be far and away the best. Is not an A-Hole, so they nitpick the little things and forget he carried the worst team I have ever seen into the finals. Yea he got swept by the Spurs but he had nobody. Jordan never had nobody he always had one of the best two way players of all time and absolute defensive beast in Pippen.

One bad decision lol? Look I don't blame people for liking Lebron, he's a good dude. But to say there's no other reasons to dislike the guy is idiotic. I'm not sure there's been a more fake superstar in sports. Russell Wilson maybe. But his fake ass persona, the corny, passive aggressive tweets, all that ******** about wanting to go home when really he's just jumping to the next hand crafted super team, not 1 not 2 not 3....Tattooing yourself as "the chosen one". Talking **** about dirk while him and his super friends get their asses whooped, disappearing in the finals. There's a LOT of reasons to dislike lebron.

And as far as always having someone, he sure as hell didn't when he was getting punked by the Pistons or Celtics. By the time Scottie was becoming a good player Jordan had already run into the Pistons multiple and dropped 63 on birds Celtics in the playoffs. Hell when he won his first title he was the ONLY ALLSTAR ON HIS TEAM. Meanwhile Lebron a guy just removed from one of the greatest playoff runs ever and Final MVP, PLUS Chris Bosh.

 

[LeeD]

There is NO way to quantify the "best" player by position. Too many things have changed, including our own perceptions.
Lebron, in my opinion, should be most valuable player, because he's the ONE guy that everyone would include on his own team. All those other guys are just having a premier year, but it didn't and it won't last. If you were going to start a basketball team, Lebron would have to be one of your choices.

 

[stringertom]

One bad decision lol? Look I don't blame people for liking Lebron, he's a good dude. But to say there's no other reasons to dislike the guy is idiotic. I'm not sure there's been a more fake superstar in sports. Russell Wilson maybe. But his fake ass persona, the corny, passive aggressive tweets, all that ******** about wanting to go home when really he's just jumping to the next hand crafted super team, not 1 not 2 not 3....Tattooing yourself as "the chosen one". Talking **** about dirk while him and his super friends get their asses whooped, disappearing in the finals. There's a LOT of reasons to dislike lebron.

And as far as always having someone, he sure as hell didn't when he was getting punked by the Pistons or Celtics. By the time Scottie was becoming a good player Jordan had already run into the Pistons multiple and dropped 63 on birds Celtics in the playoffs. Hell when he won his first title he was the ONLY ALLSTAR ON HIS TEAM. Meanwhile Lebron a guy just removed from one of the greatest playoff runs ever and Final MVP, PLUS Chris Bosh.

You left out his crucial Allen Iverson imitation that changed the whole dynamics of last year's Finals...real class, almost making Draymond seem sympathetic just two weeks after his NFL placekicking tryout.

 

[NonP]

What I do know is that the defence of Jordan by the giant horde of scatty little twats is beyond unscrupulous, but LeBron is certainly not greater.

LBJ gets props for his chase-down blocks but MJ beats him just about everywhere else. As has been pointed out umpteen times LeBron has always had trouble with quick-footed guards. Forget about guarding the likes of Wall, CP3, (healthy) Rose, etc. Let's just say this: game 7, 1 min left on the clock, you'd be a fool to trust LBJ against a Conley or Brown coming off the weak side over acknowledged stoppers like MJ and Kawhi or even relatively unheralded ones like Kobe and Wade who would be laser-focused onto their opponent.

One bad decision lol? Look I don't blame people for liking Lebron, he's a good dude. But to say there's no other reasons to dislike the guy is idiotic. I'm not sure there's been a more fake superstar in sports. Russell Wilson maybe. But his fake ass persona, the corny, passive aggressive tweets, all that ******** about wanting to go home when really he's just jumping to the next hand crafted super team, not 1 not 2 not 3....Tattooing yourself as "the chosen one". Talking **** about dirk while him and his super friends get their asses whooped, disappearing in the finals. There's a LOT of reasons to dislike lebron.

And as far as always having someone, he sure as hell didn't when he was getting punked by the Pistons or Celtics. By the time Scottie was becoming a good player Jordan had already run into the Pistons multiple and dropped 63 on birds Celtics in the playoffs. Hell when he won his first title he was the ONLY ALLSTAR ON HIS TEAM. Meanwhile Lebron a guy just removed from one of the greatest playoff runs ever and Final MVP, PLUS Chris Bosh.

As I've already noted MJ's Bulls never had more than two All-Stars. Neither did the '00s Lakers besides Kobe and Shaq/Pau. In fact it's quite debatable whether the Pierce-Garnett-Allen/Rondo Celtics - the only other team since '91 before GS (besides the '94 Knicks) with three or more AS's in the same season not named LeBron James - were quite as top-heavy as the LBJ-led Heat or Cavs. And despite all that the LBJ bloc still pretends the help their boy has gotten over his career hasn't been all that unusual.

Also see how Pippen is now touted as "one of the best two way players of all time and absolute defensive beast." I think most people who followed the NBA back in those days would agree that this high-flown view of Scottie is a relatively new phenomenon. Hell, you're talking about a player about whom terms like "underappreciated" or "underpaid" used to be bandied about endlessly. Now don't get me wrong, I'm glad the guy is finally getting his due, but we're supposed to think Pippen was one of the best Robins ever while the likes of Wade, Bosh, Irving and Love were/are only playing second fiddle? Please.

You left out his crucial Allen Iverson imitation that changed the whole dynamics of last year's Finals...real class, almost making Draymond seem sympathetic just two weeks after his NFL placekicking tryout.

You LeBron hater!!!!!!!!!!

In all seriousness, LBJ is a great player and even as a Kobe fanboy I'd put him and my guy about equal and just behind MJ. But no, you have to fall completely in line with the loud LBJ-is-da-bomb mantra or cannot possibly point out his flaws or how the game has changed. Otherwise you're just a pathetic "hater" (can we seriously retire this puerile putdown now?) or "troll" (ditto), LOL.

 

[T1000]

There is NO way to quantify the "best" player by position. Too many things have changed, including our own perceptions.
Lebron, in my opinion, should be most valuable player, because he's the ONE guy that everyone would include on his own team. All those other guys are just having a premier year, but it didn't and it won't last. If you were going to start a basketball team, Lebron would have to be one of your choices.

You can get a pretty accurate list using fmvp, MVP, and rings. Weight them fmvp - 3, MVP - 2, rings - 1. Tiebreakers just follow the list so if points are even whoever has the most fmvps is ranked higher and so on.

(1) 6 fmvps 5 mvps 6 rings = 34
(2) 2 fmvps 6 mvps 6 rings = 24
(3) 3 fmvps 4 mvps 3 rings = 20
(4) 3 fmvps 3 mvps 5 rings = 20
(5) 3 fmvps 2 mvps 5 rings = 18
(6) 3 fmvps 1 mvp 4 rings = 15
(7) 2 fmvps 3 mvps 3 rings = 15
(8) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 5 rings = 13
(9) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 2 rings = 10
(10) 1 fmvp 3 mvps 1 ring = 10

But that list looks like it's missing a couple people. Well it's hard to rank premerger players but two should be ranked so we'll put them at 5 and 6. The one with more rings is ranked higher. There's a third some could argue fits in there but for know we'll just add these two

(1) 6 fmvps 5 mvps 6 rings = 34
(2) 2 fmvps 6 mvps 6 rings = 24
(3) 3 fmvps 4 mvps 3 rings = 20
(4) 3 fmvps 3 mvps 5 rings = 20
(5) premerger 1
(6) premerger 2
(7) 3 fmvps 2 mvps 5 rings = 18
(8) 3 fmvps 1 mvp 4 rings = 15
(9) 2 fmvps 3 mvps 3 rings = 15
(10) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 5 rings = 13
(11) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 2 rings = 10
(12) 1 fmvp 3 mvps 1 ring = 10

So now let's add some names

(1) Jordan
(2) Kareem
(3) Lebron
(4) Magic
(5) Russell
(6) Wilt
(7) Duncan
(8) Shaq
(9) Bird
(10) Kobe
(11) Hakeem
(12) Moses

And you can make some adjustments from there based on other factors if you want. Knowledgeable basketball fans will pretty much agree with this list

 

[stringertom]

You can get a pretty accurate list using fmvp, MVP, and rings. Weight them fmvp - 3, MVP - 2, rings - 1. Tiebreakers just follow the list so if points are even whoever has the most fmvps is ranked higher and so on.

(1) 6 fmvps 5 mvps 6 rings = 34
(2) 2 fmvps 6 mvps 6 rings = 24
(3) 3 fmvps 4 mvps 3 rings = 20
(4) 3 fmvps 3 mvps 5 rings = 20
(5) 3 fmvps 2 mvps 5 rings = 18
(6) 3 fmvps 1 mvp 4 rings = 15
(7) 2 fmvps 3 mvps 3 rings = 15
(8) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 5 rings = 13
(9) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 2 rings = 10
(10) 1 fmvp 3 mvps 1 ring = 10

But that list looks like it's missing a couple people. Well it's hard to rank premerger players but two should be ranked so we'll put them at 5 and 6. The one with more rings is ranked higher. There's a third some could argue fits in there but for know we'll just add these two

(1) 6 fmvps 5 mvps 6 rings = 34
(2) 2 fmvps 6 mvps 6 rings = 24
(3) 3 fmvps 4 mvps 3 rings = 20
(4) 3 fmvps 3 mvps 5 rings = 20
(5) premerger 1
(6) premerger 2
(7) 3 fmvps 2 mvps 5 rings = 18
(8) 3 fmvps 1 mvp 4 rings = 15
(9) 2 fmvps 3 mvps 3 rings = 15
(10) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 5 rings = 13
(11) 2 fmvps 1 mvp 2 rings = 10
(12) 1 fmvp 3 mvps 1 ring = 10

So now let's add some names

(1) Jordan
(2) Kareem
(3) Lebron
(4) Magic
(5) Russell
(6) Wilt
(7) Duncan
(8) Shaq
(9) Bird
(10) Kobe
(11) Hakeem
(12) Moses

And you can make some adjustments from there based on other factors if you want. Knowledgeable basketball fans will pretty much agree with this list

#10 needs a bump or two.

 

[T1000]

#10 needs a bump or two.

Since you actually got to watch all these guys play (I think only leed can say that too ITT) why would he get bumped over bird and/or shaq? And where would you put oscar?

 

[stringertom]

Since you actually got to watch all these guys play (I think only leed can say that too ITT) why would he get bumped over bird and/or shaq? And where would you put oscar?

I'm not a huge fan of bigs from Orlando that are a liability at the FT line in crunch time. When Kobe won twice without the Big Dumbenental he passed him on my list.

The Bird, and for that matter, the Duncan comparisons to Kobe are neck and neck. Bird had a much more complete team around him than Kobe's supporting cast for the last two titles. The same can be said for Timmie.

Now if Oscar had ever had a team, he's up there in the top 10 for sure. What he did at the twilight of his career with the Bucks and young KAJ was amazing.

 

[Vcore89]

ESPN.com

It's finally official. The first NBA Finals trilogy awaits us, a rematch of a rematch that most fans have been expecting all season. Will the Golden State Warriors or the Cleveland Cavaliers win the NBA title? And in how many games?

Here are the predictions from our ESPN Forecast panel of experts, ESPN's Basketball Power Index (BPI), FiveThirtyEight, PredictWise and a panel of fans.

Predicting Game 1

Who wins Game 1?

GSW (%) CLE (%)
FiveThirtyEight 83 17
Fan panel 75 25

Predicting the series

Who wins the series?

GSW (%) CLE (%)
BPI 93 7
FiveThirtyEight 90 10
PredictWise 72 28
Fan panel 70 30

Predicting the number of games
Forecasting the games

Forecast (%) Fans (%) BPI (%)
CLE in 4 0 1 < 1
CLE in 5 0 0 < 1
CLE in 6 3 8 3
CLE in 7 3 11 2
GSW in 4 0 3 27
GSW in 5 30 32 37
GSW in 6 42 31 17
GSW in 7 23 14 13
ESPN Forecast and the fan panel predictions were conducted in coordination with Microsoft Research.

 

[Harry_Wild]

I like LeBron in his younger days, now LeBron gotten to cocky! I pulling for Stef Curry and company to win it all.... Golden State Warriors will revenge their defeat!

 

[LeeD]

Kyrie is the wild card.
Love is dialed from the 3 point line at the beginning of games.
None of the Dubs can guard Lebron, so maybe McAdoo has the best chances of success, which is limiting him to 28-9-9 with 5 turnovers.
Stef should get his 28.
Durant should get his 26.
But can Klay achieve 20 status to offset Cav's big 3?