Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Ok cool. That sounds like a good stick to
Look at. Maybe a demo is in order! What is the string pattern??
Nytennisaddict Serving up double bagels- a comedy vid
- Thread starter Shroud
- Start date
Look at. Maybe a demo is in order! What is the string pattern??
Booger
Hall of Fame
100g of lead may be overkill unless you are going for the distance world record, but I'm sure that won't stop you.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yeah i made that number up but if i cut off 2" it may be that much if you take into account my 40g handle
C
Chadillac
Guest
At this point you run into the biggest problem. They are only available in specialty shops (no online) and retail for $300 (but can get on the bay probably around 130, 1/2's are rare). Wilson decided to throw pro shops a bone, its a great racket but got no exposure.
Strings are also very sensitive, you need poly mains. Its a 16*15 but is very manageable with its stiffness. Drop shots, kick 2nd serve and short crosscourt rollers have never felt so confident. Its probably just me but this racket gives me the stiffness on up the line and softness on cross court.
Gonna put them back in my bag tomorrow, arm was really sore and was testing older rackets, feeling better as long as i dont serve
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
dimkin
Hall of Fame
@Shroud
never too late to switch to platform - I committed to doing it @ 41, and you know, a couple of months later, I don't miss my right foot shuffle at all. My cartwheeling is better, I make contact at a higher point, can hit down the T (couldn't do it before). And my kick serve is better ...
It was REALLY hard at first, but it really is worth it I believe ...
which the shuffle step we fool ourselves on bad tosses - we feel we can get to them, but in reality it's crap.
with the platform - you know you can't hit those tosses, so you let them drop - that alone is worth somethin ...
never too late to switch to platform - I committed to doing it @ 41, and you know, a couple of months later, I don't miss my right foot shuffle at all. My cartwheeling is better, I make contact at a higher point, can hit down the T (couldn't do it before). And my kick serve is better ...
It was REALLY hard at first, but it really is worth it I believe ...
which the shuffle step we fool ourselves on bad tosses - we feel we can get to them, but in reality it's crap.
with the platform - you know you can't hit those tosses, so you let them drop - that alone is worth somethin ...
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
No doubt i could change. Pretty good at changing. Question is whether my knees explode or not...
Good point abot the toss
dimkin
Hall of Fame
I find it easier on the knees actually - with the pinpoint, I was struggling to get my right foot involved (funny enough look up Kafelnikov's serve).
And in general what I found that you almost don't need a push off - with the platform when your form is quiet, you can hit some very nice serves with just a small bend.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
I wasn't trying to insult anyone. I now can see why green shirt is 4.5. He hits with impressive spin and pace and is very accurate. It is just hard to see all of the skills at work against an opponent that with all due respect was not near his level in this match.
Shroud double faults way too much to beat most of the 4.0s I know. He has really nice volleys though. Anyway, props to him for posting a match in which he looks bad. If only we could all be as humble.
I'm sure he would serve and volley many lesser players to death and look much better than he does here.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Thats the problem with this vid. Its not indicative of my serve. I posted the one a week prior and served much better. it was the jacked racquet
Fwiw i was playing usta 4.0 ball when i was doing leagues. Mostly doubles. We made it to sectionals so the team was pretty solid.
I was 30-40lbs heavier back then so singles wasnt pretty. Some days i am just lucky to be on the court and fairly healthy! I may be lower than 4.0 in singles. Last time i played a 4.0 i lost 3-6, 4-6 iirc. Best thing for me would be to quit trying to improve, pick a racquet and string combo and just focus on match play. But i just like to improve and get bored easily just playing matches or have ruined days, etc.
And who are you kidding. My volleys are the worst...
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
You have really nice touch on the volleys but that guy in green looks like Agassi!
I bet you'd easily get to 4.0 singles if you could keep that serve in and kick it up to the BH.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Lol. I told him that he looked like Agassi!!!
Yeah i have a decent kicker and it does get high but not against NYTA
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Not really. First off i was going to do it regardless. 2ndly he probably is a better baseliner than serve and volleyer so it was probably better for me.
But honestly he set me up the moment i agreed to play a set...
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yeah it was the racquet. Long story but NYTA noticed it and mentions it in the vid
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
What is the best way to play the volley at 5:10
Missing those long is so frustrating. Even pros can't seem to make that one.
Missing those long is so frustrating. Even pros can't seem to make that one.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I enjoyed watching it! @Shroud, you have to chip those backhand returns, his kicker is too good to take swings at.
Can you elaborate on this?
I've been having trouble with spinning/kickers serves lately.
For a fast serve, I will block back, and I am happy with that.
But, when I get a slower kicker, I take a swing at it, and it's never good.
Is there a general rule of thumb to lay off slice/kickers that are not fast, but are spinning a lot?
It's tempting to try to bash a slow kicker, but I think I need to lay off.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Addict,
You said you typically slice back most first serves.
You felt these serves were safe to attack?
Shroud had some very nice spin in his serves, just a bad %age day.
You said you typically slice back most first serves.
You felt these serves were safe to attack?
Shroud had some very nice spin in his serves, just a bad %age day.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Ok, I am the last one to give advice, but since addict is such a master student of the game.
Did anyone notice Addict wasn't always fully loading his serving legs?
Did anyone notice Addict wasn't always fully loading his serving legs?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
@Shroud seemed to be in reasonable position with a good knee bend. Possibly he was going for too much in a situation where a volley straight back to the middle would have been preferred [understanding your distaste for doing that as "anti-tennis"] or he just slightly miscalculated the racquet angle. Small differences add up, especially if the ball is moving quickly.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't know about @nytennisaddict but I can't seem to fully load even when I tell myself to exaggerate the knee bend: I watch myself on video and I maybe get 45 degrees rather than the full 90 the pros get. It feels like if I go any lower I won't be able to get back up in time. Probably means my quads need more work...a lot more work.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
it's a tough volley because:
*you're making contact below the net (need to volley up)
*had a lot of topspin (tendency to bounce even higher)
*and pace (tough to control)
how i attempt to handle it:
*choose a big target 5ft from baseline and sideline
*get low
*absorb pace by softening my hands (racquet should be allowed to deflect backwards)
*follow through on the volley (can't just stick your racquet out or the spin will dictate where the ball goes)
2 biggest mistakes (for me)
*volley with too firm a grip
*choosing an aggressive target
need to accept that it's a good neutralizing shot
folks with amazing hands (for the pace i'm giving) will hit a drop shot anyway
on the flip side, as the passer, against s&v'ers i seldom go for an outright pass on the first shot,... ill usually hit right at the net person, with heavy spin, hopefully a "dipper" over the net,... and look to pass on the second shot
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
S&V, I exactly know what you mean.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
Roger's knees appear to be a perfect right angle.
I think the only way to get that much bend in your legs is to also be seriously leaning back.
You can not get 90 degree if standing upright, as you would be squatting.
I think the only way to get that much bend in your legs is to also be seriously leaning back.
You can not get 90 degree if standing upright, as you would be squatting.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
it's just like the same thing you're doing to a batter when you throw a curveball.
when i miss returning a kicker, it's usually because it's moved enough out of my strike zone (even just a few inches), where i'm not getting a clean swing with my weight behind the ball.
how to prevent that?
lots of practice hitting against kickers
other things you can do:
*hit the ball on the rise before it has a chance to deviate much (aka kick) off the bounce -
but obviously that comes with its own challenges... which brings us back to "more practice"
kickers and heavy curving slice,... both
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
Ok, I am the last one to give advice, but since addict is such a master student of the game.
Did anyone notice Addict wasn't always fully loading his serving legs?
yup, definitely something i'm aware of and working on
to fix the issue, i need to toss slightly higher to give me time to to load, though i don't think i'll have the deep knee bend of the pic you posted.
along with loading the legs (hips too... and arguably more important than the legs,.,. or to help load the hips), i need to coil my shoulders more
serve will be the primary focus of mine for 2017
the side by side image was valuable, thx for taking the time to do that.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
typically slice back big serves, or well placed serves.
one of these days i'll post of vid of me getting my butt kicked and you can see the difference in quality.
shroud is a great player but, like most things, there's always someone better
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I definitely want to practice serve and ROS this year.
I need to find someone who wants to PRACTICE, and not just play (the same level game forever)
If you ever want to mutually practice serves and ROS, let me know.
I need to find someone who wants to PRACTICE, and not just play (the same level game forever)
If you ever want to mutually practice serves and ROS, let me know.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Shroud has a one hander, so it's harder for him to hit aggressive returns off a good kicker. His options are to slice the return, or back up and let the ball drop before swinging. I have a two hander, so it's easier for me to hit topspin returns on the rise. But if the kicker is really good, I'll probably have to back up and let it drop. The number one thing is to get the return in, so if bashing the ball is causing errors, you should play a higher percentage return.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Volley it deep down the middle, get on top of the net, and dare NYTA to lob it over my head.
Topspin Shot
Legend
Gotta turn your shoulders and get more on the balls of your feet.yup, definitely something i'm aware of and working on
to fix the issue, i need to toss slightly higher to give me time to to load, though i don't think i'll have the deep knee bend of the pic you posted.
along with loading the legs (hips too... and arguably more important than the legs,.,. or to help load the hips), i need to coil my shoulders more
serve will be the primary focus of mine for 2017
the side by side image was valuable, thx for taking the time to do that.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Ts you are probably right. Though honestly i think i could have done better with my other stick. Its a 110" and has some weight but we will never know i suppose. Need to find a good kicker and see if my head and reality are even close...
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
One thing w/r/t these volleys that I think could make a big difference in Shroud's game (and everybody's) is to do with footwork, and specifically with timing the split step as he's moving forward.
Gonna go dig up some kind of pro on pro S&V heavy match. Hold on a sec...
That'll do.
Shroud, what I'd like to take a look at, if you're willing, is (A) when Pat and Pete are split stepping, and (B) where they are on court when it's happening. Then look at yourself to judge the same thing.
Those guys are nailing that split step to coincide as well as possible with the opponent's contact with the ball. There's a reason for that.
You (and a lot of amateur S&V mavens) have the idea ingrained that you want to get as far into the net as possible before split stepping. This is not accurate. You want to get as far in as you can BEFORE the opponent makes contact, and THEN split step, even if that's considerably further back. Why? Because at the split step, your body is ideally poised and balanced to react in a coordinated fashion to whatever comes from the other guy's racquet.
If (as with the point in question), you get a little closer to the net, but have to rush to get down to the ball, there are numerous little -- possibly invisible -- things that can be going on with your stroke that can screw up your result. Your weight may not be moving or distributed quite right to feel on balance...your wrist may not be quite firmly enough set...you may look like you're in position, but not be well-balanced enough to block the stroke with any kind of feeling of authority. By getting your feet under you FIRST, you set your whole body up to react as a single athletic unit. Maybe that's a volley you can't make anyway, but maybe it's one you can. And getting your whole body squared away first gives you the best opportunity to allow that to happen.
If you're caught a little further back, and have to drive-step forward, then maybe that seems less that ideal on the surface. But drive-stepping forward from a stable position, even if it's not easy, still puts you in a biomechanically advantageous position to volley the ball back with some authority. Your weight will be moving forward from a stable base, and you'll have time to get your arm, hand, and racquet to the positions and levels of resistance you want.
Pete and Pat? They're very frequently split stepping well before the service line. Does this spell doom? Not at all. Split, recognize, then adapt. Just because you've split stepped doesn't mean you're done moving forward; you're just positioned to move forward (or sideways, or OUT of the way, or even back if necessary) as well as possible.
I'd worry about smaller mechanical details after you get used to the idea of split stepping aggressively and early enough. A lot of the time, little mechanical details will sort themselves out once you get used to getting in proper position before employing them.
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Doc Hollidae
Hall of Fame
Great hitting guys!
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
just looked back over the vid in slow motion,Ok, I am the last one to give advice, but since addict is such a master student of the game.
Did anyone notice Addict wasn't always fully loading his serving legs?
i do load my legs (100% time of the 5-6 serves i watched), up on the balls of my foot, etc... you captured the pic a bit late (ie. i started the upward leg drive already)
but other things i noticed:
* my chest is still facing the side fence (vs. i should be able to see my chest at least a bit),
* i don't have a shoulder tilt,
i think both of these are related...
in general i'm copying rafter's (pinpoint) serve:
anywho, thx for pointing out the pic, which prompted me to watch myself in slow motion
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Intellectually i know this but i can never seem to DO it. It feels like if i split step that far back i am defensive and have already lost the point. Not saying that is the case but its how i feel
Any thoughts on how to change the split stepping??
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
crux of the problem is (my guess),
at 3.5 level, instructor probably says, "split on contact... which means you're probably splitting around the service line" (given the slow serve pace)... then students forgets the "split on contact" part, and just remembers and reiterates, "split around the service line"... tells their friends, their kids, etc... and that's how a false tip is born
"alternative tip"
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
i didn't stop "split at the service line" until i started playing better players... ie folks that were returning with authority or placement.
problem is that if you're hitting a good kicker, let's say, and you're constantly getting floaters... not splitting will actually help because you're now closing on an easy ball.
but after playing folks that can easily get the ball down to your feet, or make you stretch, consistently, you'll realize that splitting on contact is the only way to stay balanced, to be able to have a chance to make those volleys.
SinjinCooper
Hall of Fame
If you're trying to split on contact, and you're always finding yourself late, choose a different, earlier marker. Aiming to time it with the bounce of the serve seems a little too aggressively early, but maybe a bounce-split tempo -- like once you see/hear your serve bounce, split the next step. That should have you pretty close to where you want to be, and close enough is good enough till you can feel the timing out yourself.
Ultimately, you want to time it so that you hit that split step, but don't really lose the forward-momentum feeling of being ready to pounce left/right/diagonally/forward as your very next reaction. You'll need a little trial and error with your own footspeed, service speed, and reaction speed to know exactly where that sweet spot lies.
FWIW, the dividends should be enormous for your doubles game.
atp2015
Hall of Fame
I see that you take the racket up initially with arms in front and not from behind and also the pinpoint stance. (abbreviated motion like Roddick instead of the long wind up like Fed,Sampras).
My understanding is that he combination of the pinpoint stance and abbreviated motion inhibits shoulder rotation. The long wind up and platform stance allows much better shoulder action.
D
Deleted member 23235
Guest
true, but if you look at rafter's serve (i linked above), he takes a more aggressive step-to-pinpoint than i do, and you can still see his chest... (not as much as fed)... so while i may not get a fed like (platform stance) shoulder turn, i still need to do more (to maximize my serve)
2:48 though wawrinka shouler turn seems to be minimal (ie. on the deuce side you don't see his chest at all)
You can consider getting a ball machine. The top of the line one which has everything programmable: speed, spin, depth, attacking/defensive modes, all controlled from your iPhone or Android phone.
It is better than any hitting partner save for a pro-level one and that's only because the pro hitting partner has a real brain.
If you do the math, it is a real good investment. Spend a couple hours a day with it, you will see the improvement within weeks.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
I bought a ball machine a few weeks ago. But it's just the basic one. Oscillates, but no top spin
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
I never use oscillation or spin on my ball machine. I basically use mine for one thing ... grooving grounstrokes. I set it against the back fence ... and set it 80-90 mph right down the middle to where it bounces right in the strike zone at my baseline. Occasionally I will aim it to a corner so I can hit repetitive dtl. Also ... on occasion I will use it for volley practice ... but not at 90 mph.
I don't use the ball machine for exercise or practice against variety (spin, etc). I get that from playing matches. I have found ball machine usuage sensitive to wind. With my narrow usuage ... I can set the speed for the conditions in a couple of minutes. My ball machine can do both backspin or topspin ... but I found it really didn't mimic actual opponents shots very well. Also ... try all those variations on a windy day ... and I spent more time adjusting ball machine settings than actually hitting balls. I do not have a remote ... but really don't want one... just something else that can break. I have had to replace the panel, a battery, etc. On my particular machine (Lobster) ... oscillation would definitely run the battery down quicker. I have 2 hour ball machine sessions no problem with my narrow usuage.
The entire battery thing is frickin awesome. I remember the days when you needed an outlet to plug in.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
it's a tough volley because:
*you're making contact below the net (need to volley up)
*had a lot of topspin (tendency to bounce even higher)
*and pace (tough to control)
how i attempt to handle it:
*choose a big target 5ft from baseline and sideline
*get low
*absorb pace by softening my hands (racquet should be allowed to deflect backwards)
*follow through on the volley (can't just stick your racquet out or the spin will dictate where the ball goes)
2 biggest mistakes (for me)
*volley with too firm a grip
*choosing an aggressive target
need to accept that it's a good neutralizing shot
folks with amazing hands (for the pace i'm giving) will hit a drop shot anyway
on the flip side, as the passer, against s&v'ers i seldom go for an outright pass on the first shot,... ill usually hit right at the net person, with heavy spin, hopefully a "dipper" over the net,... and look to pass on the second shot
"against s&v'ers i seldom go for an outright pass on the first shot"
Exactly. I did a lot of low bh block/slice returns ... I liked my passing shot odds against volley and player at net rather than against serve.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
There's another problem. When we net rush, we net rush indiscriminately and go in behind weak approach shots. Many times I have found myself all set very close to the net with the baseliner still having time to spare to decide which way he wants to go with the passing shot. Which means I shouldn't have gone in behind that shot in the first place and waited for a better opportunity. If I am giving him that much time to decide, I am already in trouble. Net rushing is more about rushing the guy in the back court rather than us rushing to the net, lol, but it ends up the other way round in rec tennis.
ByeByePoly
G.O.A.T.
"When we net rush, we net rush indiscriminately and go in behind weak shots."
Hey ... don't lump me in that "we"
Following approaches will take you a long way in league tennis:
1) dtl
2) any approach to their bh they can't run around
3) to FHs ... make them move to get to it (running pass)
That is a long way to get to the point ... don't hit right to their FH. If your opponent has a consistent bh passing shot ... add a bit more "discriminating" in that approach to the bh.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
"When we net rush, we net rush indiscriminately and go in behind weak shots."
This perfectly describes me.
It's almost uncanny, I ONLY go in after a weak shot to their FH side.
It's almost like that's a shot I can see, so I follow it.
The arcing shot to the BH? I don't even think about net until AFTER it bounces.
At this point, I'm convinced it's not random.
This perfectly describes me.
It's almost uncanny, I ONLY go in after a weak shot to their FH side.
It's almost like that's a shot I can see, so I follow it.
The arcing shot to the BH? I don't even think about net until AFTER it bounces.
At this point, I'm convinced it's not random.
TimeToPlaySets
Legend
This type of advice is gold.
It's so obvious, but only after you're done it wrong for years.