OK one more doubles rule question

[sureshs]

I was playing doubles, and a couple of times I deliberately hit short when both the opponents were standing deep in the court (this is 3.5 dubs after all). Each time, one of them shouted "Short" as a warning to the other. I cannot be sure whether he did it just after I touched the ball or as soon as he saw my disguise (which wasn't much as you can guess) and realized the swing was going to be abbreviated.

1. Is this legal and/or correct etiquette-wise if the call had happened an instant AFTER the contact but my follow thru and recovery had not completed? It was so close to contact that I cannot pin point the relative time of the call but it was a "shock" to me.

2. Is this legal and/or correct etiquette-wise if the call had happened BEFORE contact?

 

[VolklVenom]

they can say whatever they want

 

[sureshs]

they can say whatever they want

At whatever time they want? What about distraction?

 

[ferocious4hand]

it is not considered a distraction if after you made contact with the ball or if the ball is on your opponent's side. however in your case it does seem like the opponents are able to read the short ball and shouted it out, this would probably be considered hinderance on their part. but then again it'd must be a really load shout for you to be distracted.

 

[downey stringing master]

just do a slip step start jump to put em off or go urs mine urs mine no ur wat yood oin hit it etc legal; .

 

[travlerajm]

As long as it's obvious that the intent is to communicate with the partner, then it is legal. I often yell short if I hit a lob that is going to land short to signal to my partner to retreat. It's perfectly legal.

But if I wait until the instant before my opponent makes contact with the ensuing overhead, that would be different.

 

[samizram]

But if I wait until the instant before my opponent makes contact with the ensuing overhead, that would be different.

That's kinda what this is like though.

You are about to dump a drop shot on them. One of them sees through the disguise and yells "Short." They are reading your shot just as you hit it, maybe even a little before.

I know of nothing in the rulings or Code on this. So I'd say it depends on how loud they are. There really is no reason to yell to your partner. People forget when they get excited, but I think you can just tell them it distracts you if they don't keep their voices down.

If they refuse to, then that would be a hindrance. They must be pretty afraid of your drop shot.

 

[equinox]

At contact or just before it's a hinderence.

 

[samizram]

At contact or just before it's a hinderence.

Are you sure? Because then you get problems like he said, where he isn't sure if it was just before or after contact.

Kinda like the old double-hit rule, I think it would be too hard to judge and have to be allowed.

I'd like to know for sure if there have been any rulings on this.

 

[spot]

If they yell "short" while you are hitting then you can stop right then- declare hinderance and replay the point. But if you do it when they were just legitimately communicating with each other then its pretty nitpicky on your part. But if it did truly distract you then its within the rules for you to call it.

You can't wait and only call it if you hit a lousy shot- it has to be immediate.

 

[samizram]

If they yell "short" while you are hitting then you can stop right then- declare hinderance and replay the point. But if you do it when they were just legitimately communicating with each other then its pretty nitpicky on your part. But if it did truly distract you then its within the rules for you to call it.

You can't wait and only call it if you hit a lousy shot- it has to be immediate.

Yes, if you're going to call them on it, stop play instantly to make the call. Even if you've hit the ball, speak up immediately (which will be hard to do in time in this case). But a hindrance call is a penalty that gives you point. I think the rule is one warning, with a replay of the point that first time. But after that, you win the point if they hinder you.

That's because the distraction is voluntary behavior on their part, not some involuntary accident like a hat blowing off or screaming at a bee sting. In the latter case you play a let. In the former case they lose the point.

 

[sureshs]

it is not considered a distraction if after you made contact with the ball or if the ball is on your opponent's side. however in your case it does seem like the opponents are able to read the short ball and shouted it out, this would probably be considered hinderance on their part. but then again it'd must be a really load shout for you to be distracted.

It was so fast that I am uncertain about the before-after sequence. But I agree that if it is called before, it can be a hindrance. The shout was loud enough for me to hear clearly, but not a yell. I felt shocked for an instant, but it did not carry over.

 

[sureshs]

As long as it's obvious that the intent is to communicate with the partner, then it is legal. I often yell short if I hit a lob that is going to land short to signal to my partner to retreat. It's perfectly legal.

But if I wait until the instant before my opponent makes contact with the ensuing overhead, that would be different.

But that is YOU yelling after YOUR shot and well before the opponent makes contact. In my case it is the opposite side shouting almost at MY shot. Though I see why your second case is very similar.

 

[sureshs]

That's kinda what this is like though.

You are about to dump a drop shot on them. One of them sees through the disguise and yells "Short." They are reading your shot just as you hit it, maybe even a little before.

I know of nothing in the rulings or Code on this. So I'd say it depends on how loud they are. There really is no reason to yell to your partner. People forget when they get excited, but I think you can just tell them it distracts you if they don't keep their voices down.

If they refuse to, then that would be a hindrance. They must be pretty afraid of your drop shot.

Cindy, where are you when we need you?

Don't we answer all your questions? Do your part here about the Da Vinci Code.

And no, nobody is afraid of my drop shot. Or any other shot.

 

[Solat]

the intention is not to distract you so its ok

if they yell out "hooters" then you may have a case

 

[Geezer Guy]

I believe the rules state that you can talk while the ball is coming TOWARD you, but you can't talk while the ball is going TOWARD your opponent.

Now, many of us call out "short" when we hit a weak lob that's likely to get our partners head taken off - and that's generally accepted (same as people grunting when they hit their shot). I'd say that as long as your opponents are not truely trying to distract you, you shouldn't stop play and make an issue out of it.

 

[Cindysphinx]

Cindy, where are you when we need you?

Don't we answer all your questions? Do your part here about the Da Vinci Code.

And no, nobody is afraid of my drop shot. Or any other shot.

Sureshs:

My first instinct on reading this is that it could be a hindrance only if (1) you in good faith believe you were hindered and (2) you catch the ball or decline to play it and claim a hindrance instead.

Here's the Code:

33. Talking during a point. A player shall not talk while the ball is moving toward the opponent’s side of the court. If the player’s talking interferes with an opponent’s ability to play the ball, the player loses the point. Consider the situation where a player hits a weak lob and loudly yells at his or her partner to get back. If the shout is loud enough to distract an opponent, then the opponent may claim the point based on a deliberate hindrance. If the opponent chooses to hit the lob and misses it, the opponent loses the point because the opponent did not make a timely claim of hindrance.

 

[LuckyR]

This is one of those rare occurences where the Rules (though correct by definition) are best applied loosely to accomidate intent: see travlerajm's post.

 

[papa]

they can say whatever they want

Not true.

"After" the ball is hit you may advise partner to come in quickly like saying "up" or the reverse by saying "back". Again, players use different terms but you cannot do anything verbably that distracts the opponents.

 

[psp2]

I was playing doubles, and a couple of times I deliberately hit short when both the opponents were standing deep in the court (this is 3.5 dubs after all). Each time, one of them shouted "Short" as a warning to the other. I cannot be sure whether he did it just after I touched the ball or as soon as he saw my disguise (which wasn't much as you can guess) and realized the swing was going to be abbreviated.

1. Is this legal and/or correct etiquette-wise if the call had happened an instant AFTER the contact but my follow thru and recovery had not completed? It was so close to contact that I cannot pin point the relative time of the call but it was a "shock" to me.

2. Is this legal and/or correct etiquette-wise if the call had happened BEFORE contact?

If your opponents' yell affected your entire swing motion, then you should have stopped the point immediately and let them know, then played a let. If they continued, you can claim points based on hinderance.

I realize that making an exact determination of WHEN the hinderance occured may have been difficult, so you must be pretty sure about the timing.

 

[ChipNCharge]

This is one of those rare occurences where the Rules (though correct by definition) are best applied loosely to accomidate intent: see travlerajm's post.

So you just pick and choose which rules you're going to follow? I bet you're the type of player that would go ape scat if someone called a foot fault on you.

 

[ChipNCharge]

Now, many of us call out "short" when we hit a weak lob that's likely to get our partners head taken off - and that's generally accepted..

I disagree. I think most people just don't know it's against the rules.

 

[papa]

I believe the rules state that you can talk while the ball is coming TOWARD you, but you can't talk while the ball is going TOWARD your opponent.

Now, many of us call out "short" when we hit a weak lob that's likely to get our partners head taken off - and that's generally accepted (same as people grunting when they hit their shot). I'd say that as long as your opponents are not truely trying to distract you, you shouldn't stop play and make an issue out of it.

I would agree with you, its a judgement issue. If you hit a weak lob, advise partner with a quick "back" or "short" - its just common sense. Its like a loose ball thing - you just don't stop play everytime because a ball comes near your court. If it interferes, or is in a position where it could interfere or possibly cause a problem/injury, sure, call a let. Incidently, if the loose ball happens to come out of your pocket, tough. The opponent(s) can call a let but not you - "you"/"partner" cannot create/cause your own let whether it be a ball from your pocket, your hat, glasses, anything - whatever is dropped becomes part of the court. Sorry, this is off subject.

 

[10sfreak]

During the last match of mixed-doubles season, one of the girls on my 6.0 mixed team (Angie), who was captaining her own 7.0 mixed, was saying things like "switch!" to her partner (he's not really a doubles player, mostly singles, so he was out of position quite a bit), and "go up" on short balls, etc. Anyway, the lady on the other team yells at Angie, "you can't talk like that during a point! DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!"
Now, had I been on the court playing in that match, I would have just told that lady to go suck one, but Angie's a gentle soul, and just didn't say anything at all. That lady's partner was visibly embarrased about the whole thing. (Keep in mind, Angie wasn't screaming or anything, just talking to her partner in a fairly low tone).
What would y'all have done had you been in either Angie's, or her partner's place?

 

[Supernatural_Serve]

=What would y'all have done had you been in either Angie's, or her partner's place?

In a near future point, I would accuse that idiot of a hindrance for farting just as I was hitting the ball.

And if she denied it I would walk over near where she was standing, let a silent but deadly one, and tell her opponent to come over and smell the hindrance their partner dropped on my shot. I would be quick to tell them both "you can't fart like that during a point! DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!"

 

[papa]

During the last match of mixed-doubles season, one of the girls on my 6.0 mixed team (Angie), who was captaining her own 7.0 mixed, was saying things like "switch!" to her partner (he's not really a doubles player, mostly singles, so he was out of position quite a bit), and "go up" on short balls, etc. Anyway, the lady on the other team yells at Angie, "you can't talk like that during a point! DON'T DO IT AGAIN!!!"
Now, had I been on the court playing in that match, I would have just told that lady to go suck one, but Angie's a gentle soul, and just didn't say anything at all. That lady's partner was visibly embarrased about the whole thing. (Keep in mind, Angie wasn't screaming or anything, just talking to her partner in a fairly low tone).
What would y'all have done had you been in either Angie's, or her partner's place?

Keep playing as I was - however, some can get very talkative. Saying things like "switch", "up", "back", "bounce it", etc. are part of the game. Saying things like "look out he's going to hit it long", etc. etc. are not part of the game and should be avoided. My intention is not to pick on women but they can verbalize a little bit too much - remember your not an anouncer/comentator calling the match on TV.

 

[DX_Psycho]

if they're communicating, you'd have to be a real stiff to call them on that. if they're trying to distract you then i would call it. sounds like they were just communicating though.

also: is it illegal if me and my partner talk a lot between points? we chat a lot and laugh and it breaks down our opponents mental game while boosting ours, but I don't know if we can get called on that.

 

[MordredSJT]

ialso: is it illegal if me and my partner talk a lot between points? we chat a lot and laugh and it breaks down our opponents mental game while boosting ours, but I don't know if we can get called on that.

If you are not going over time between points, then this is perfectly acceptable.