Pace: Are we mistaken in thinking it's the best way to attack?

[HunterST]

Pace. It's probably the first aspect of a players game that we notice. If someone hits with a lot of pace, we usually deem them a good player. Lately, though, I've been thinking about how people win matches. It seems like it comes down to having a consistent rally ball that causes your opponent to be inconsistent.

When we try to hit with a lot of power, we're trying to make the ball go so fast that our opponents can't handle it well and make errors or give up easy shots.

The problem is, it takes great technique, timing, and footwork to hit with power consistently. When we dial down a stroke designed for power, it becomes a nice, predictable, moderate paced shot. One that is easy for an opponent to be consistent with.

So, is it smarter to attack in another way? High loopy shots? Low slices?

Any thoughts on this idea are appreciated.

 

[The Meat]

High loopy shots, hard to attack them and stepping in to take it early is suicide if you can't do anything with the shot at higher levels.

 

[OHBH]

Pace. It's probably the first aspect of a players game that we notice. If someone hits with a lot of pace, we usually deem them a good player. Lately, though, I've been thinking about how people win matches. It seems like it comes down to having a consistent rally ball that causes your opponent to be inconsistent.

When we try to hit with a lot of power, we're trying to make the ball go so fast that our opponents can't handle it well and make errors or give up easy shots.

The problem is, it takes great technique, timing, and footwork to hit with power consistently. When we dial down a stroke designed for power, it becomes a nice, predictable, moderate paced shot. One that is easy for an opponent to be consistent with.

So, is it smarter to attack in another way? High loopy shots? Low slices?

Any thoughts on this idea are appreciated.

If your rallyball is enough to force errors off of your opponent they are not on the same level as you. If you are talking about pushing, that is a very legitimate strategy and will win you a lot of matches if you can have that mentality.

 

[magnut]

Pace is not as important as ball control and placement. Sure once in a while someone gets hot but its rarely under pressure and even more rarely can they consistently win matches that way. Even professionals take pace off there shots when we see them play. If they didnt they would lose control.

If you want to attack effectively you need to take control of the court by shrinking your opponents options.....move forward and control the net. Then you have shrunk the court for your opponent and increased the court for yourself.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I know rec players who love it when opponents hit with pace.

I have never met a rec player who loves it when opponents hit with spin.

 

[luvforty]

high loop with lots of spin - difficult to attack as it comes in and out of strike zone quickly... low and short slices into the corners of the service boxes..

both styles are headache to play against.

pace without depth/placement is useless - right into the other guy's strike zone.

 

[OHBH]

I know rec players who love it when opponents hit with pace.

I have never met a rec player who loves it when opponents hit with spin.

I think topspin junkies are the easiest opponents to play. It is usually the bigger hitters that give me trouble unless they are the type that makes a lot of errors.

 

[HunterST]

Pace is not as important as ball control and placement. Sure once in a while someone gets hot but its rarely under pressure and even more rarely can they consistently win matches that way. Even professionals take pace off there shots when we see them play. If they didnt they would lose control.

If you want to attack effectively you need to take control of the court by shrinking your opponents options.....move forward and control the net. Then you have shrunk the court for your opponent and increased the court for yourself.

Good points. I'm not a particularly big fan of net play, though. I know a lot of people can win that way, but I just don't feel as comfortable there. how do you shrink the opponents options with mostly groundstrokes?

 

[HunterST]

high loop with lots of spin - difficult to attack as it comes in and out of strike zone quickly... low and short slices into the corners of the service boxes..

both styles are headache to play against.

pace without depth/placement is useless - right into the other guy's strike zone.

I agree. I've never developed a good loopy shot. Something I need to work on.

 

[ShoeShiner]

I agree. We should hit balls fast enough, but we still can control the balls in game plans or strategies, while our game momentums do not swing too much.
Most rec players do not spend time with tennis more than 40 hrs per week like pros do. They do not have much fitness and training enough to hit ball fast and heavy like pros can do whole match.

For high moonballers, low slicers, drop-shot junkers, sometimes I use the same shots they use back to them. It is very fun to do.
Most of them(rec players) are not real experts, they were troubled with the same shots they always use.

 

[magnut]

Good points. I'm not a particularly big fan of net play, though. I know a lot of people can win that way, but I just don't feel as comfortable there. how do you shrink the opponents options with mostly groundstrokes?

Thats easy. You use the Wardlaw Directionals. Every good player uses them from college to the pros.

 

[user92626]

I think topspin junkies are the easiest opponents to play. It is usually the bigger hitters that give me trouble unless they are the type that makes a lot of errors.

+1.

I lost count of how many times I mention speed. It all comes down to speed. Spin, pace, placement, whatever.. you just need to cause your opponent to be out of position which make hitting difficult for them.

 

[Relinquis]

I know rec players who love it when opponents hit with pace.

I have never met a rec player who loves it when opponents hit with spin.

i like consistent spin, it's good for my attacking game...

http://youtu.be/lhfxZIlCKtk?t=2m56s

the key to make spin difficult is to be able to mix it up; this throws off their timing. i do agree though, at the lower levels, any spin is enough to give your opponent trouble; spin is effective against those who just bunt the ball back as you get a lot of sitters. the added benefit of spin is that it makes your shots safer as well as long as they have moderate pace at least (don't need to paint the lines).

 

[Maui19]

In general I find heavy spin gives rec players more trouble than pace alone. If a player has a wonky stroke, I will hit softer spinny shots and let them try to generate their own pace, and usually they will spit out a bunch of errors in the process.

 

[ace_pace]

I think there is an assumption that whenever someone tends to hit fast paced balls as regularly and comfortably that then they are a good player. In the old days, this assumption would be fairly accurate, but in today's evolved game, the assumption is less valid.

Its not silly to use this assumption, I mean for club level tennis it would usually be the case. But I've seen and experienced 'better' players fall before 'weaker' players.

 

[LeeD]

If you're "not a fan" of net play, you just gave up 50% of your weapons against a soft hitting consistent player, and 40% of your weapons against a strong hitting player.
Instead of giving up any weapons, learn how to use them. Slices, moonballs, short angles, drop shots, attacking one side, low skidded slices, and some movement on your part.

 

[mightyrick]

I used to hit with a TON of pure flat pace. This served me well until about mid-level 3.5. At that point, I hit a glass ceiling. There was way too many people in the high-3.5/low-4.0 range who I just couldn't beat. They ate my pace for breakfast and just redirected it right back at me.

So I stopped and decided to rework my entire forehand to be slower pace, but heavy topspin forehand. This is still a work in progress.

The results are dramatic, though. When I successfully hit a heavy topspin forehand about 4 feet over the net and it lands within about two feet of the baseline -- I almost always win the point. In my experience, 3.5 or low 4.0 people just cannot attack these balls. So I'm very happy with the results.

Eventually, I'd like to be able to combine heavy spin with fast pace, but I'll probably wait until 4.0 for that. Every time I try to add a lot of pace to a heavy topspin forehand, it always goes long. I need a lot more practice.

 

[Cindysphinx]

+1.

"Spin" does not mean big 'ol meatballs.

Spin is topspin that pushes your opponent back, allows you to hit sharper angles, and makes it tougher for your opponent to time the ball. Spin makes passing shots dip below the net. Spin is especially hard for opponents with wonky stroke mechanics because spinny balls are harder to block compared to balls with pace.

Spin is more than just topspin (although hitting topspin alone was enough to move me from 3.5 to 4.0). Spin is also slice. Spin is also side-spin. All of this makes you less predictable.

Not to mention how spin aids consistency, while pace does not.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Pace. It's probably the first aspect of a players game that we notice....

So, is it smarter to attack in another way? High loopy shots? Low slices?

Any thoughts on this idea are appreciated.

I play a lot of doubles and notice how many younger guys try to hit hard forehands and come to the net. They seem to not consider that a harder shot will be at me quicker, and my reply back also quicker - leaving them much less time to close the net. I've had tons of success hitting cc shots quite high and deep - as you say - and coming in. I'm usually well inside the service line by the time their shot comes.

They may hit the odd un-returnable shot but the majority of the time we're set at the net and in the dominant position by then. They'd have to hit a pretty good shot from behind the baseline to make it hard for two people already at the net.

This practice works well in singles too - especially at lower levels where people aren't capable of consistently hitting on the rise or generating lots of pace.

 

[rkelley]

+1.

"Spin" does not mean big 'ol meatballs.

Spin is topspin that pushes your opponent back, allows you to hit sharper angles, and makes it tougher for your opponent to time the ball. Spin makes passing shots dip below the net. Spin is especially hard for opponents with wonky stroke mechanics because spinny balls are harder to block compared to balls with pace.

Spin is more than just topspin (although hitting topspin alone was enough to move me from 3.5 to 4.0). Spin is also slice. Spin is also side-spin. All of this makes you less predictable.

Not to mention how spin aids consistency, while pace does not.

Great post.

 

[martini1]

Once you can generate good ts your ball will have pace. Say the ball lands 1' inside the baseline and still hit the back fence with the first bounce. I hate to rally against balls like this and I love it when I use this to push people back. It doesn't require fancy angles at lower level.

 

[Mick3391]

If you're "not a fan" of net play, you just gave up 50% of your weapons against a soft hitting consistent player, and 40% of your weapons against a strong hitting player.
Instead of giving up any weapons, learn how to use them. Slices, moonballs, short angles, drop shots, attacking one side, low skidded slices, and some movement on your part.

Amen, what is said above is best post yet. Why do people purposely destroy over half of the game?

Pace is good, but it can be predictable, and if predictable easy to destroy. Also some can only play heavy balls from the baseline, easy to take them out of their game.

It's more important to have accurate ball placement, hard shots are indeed very important, but only part of the game.

 

[martini1]

Amen, what is said above is best post yet. Why do people purposely destroy over half of the game?

Pace is good, but it can be predictable, and if predictable easy to destroy. Also some can only play heavy balls from the baseline, easy to take them out of their game.

It's more important to have accurate ball placement, hard shots are indeed very important, but only part of the game.

Totally. If every ball can be placed with comfort and accuracy (with reasonable pace) you are already very good.

 

[skiracer55]

You have to be able to do everything...

...including but not limited to pace. Look at Federer, Djokovich, and Murray. When the shot selection calls for pace, they'll use pace. When spin and or placement is required, they'll employ that. And, of course, they're great athletes and know when it's time to run, stretch, and defend (moral: tennis is more than just the ability to hit balls). That's what's know as having a game with variety, and it separates them from the pack.

On the other hand, look at guys like Isner and Querry, who are basically one trick ponies with huge forehands and serves but not a lot more. Yep, when they're in the groove, they can beat the top guys...Isner beat Federer, I think it was, on clay. But look at how Djokovich, with an ankle injury, schooled Querry in the recent Davis Cup tie. You have to have pace, and you could look at it as the foundation of any game. As the fighter pilots say, "Speed is life." But if speed is all you have, you're going to get waxed by some other pilot who has speed and smarts...

 

[Power Player]

If you are not a fan of net play then that would be fun. I'd figure that out after 2 games because I'd be drop shotting and lobbing you.

The best way to neutralize a basher is to bring them to net where they are not comfortable.

I used to be that guy -im still not a great volleyer, but I made myself do it over and over.

Also - placement over power.

 

[Relinquis]

the drop shot is so underrated, yet it's not "that" difficult a shot.

hitting it just once is enough to give your opponent "baseline insecurity" for a few games... i can't think of another shot that has that strong an effect, psychologically... maybe ripping a winner off of his/her second serve.

 

[Mick3391]

the drop shot is so underrated, yet it's not "that" difficult a shot.

hitting it just once is enough to give your opponent "baseline insecurity" for a few games... i can't think of another shot that has that strong an effect, psychologically... maybe ripping a winner off of his/her second serve.

This is not a baseline bash, but often I go out to the court and there they are, two guys KILLING IT, standing 4 feet behind the baseline, low net clearance, 20 shot rallies, they LOOK impressive, I mean look intimidating.

However when you play them, if you can play all court, hit a short side slice shot to the right and see what happens, they fall apart. Also you are right, it builds a sense of insecurity, they never know when you will do that, throws them off. Drop shots are good also, harder to disguise then say a side spin or just a slow well placed shot.

Some who grew up serve and volley can hit it deep to them, knowing their pattern it can be easy to rush the net and get them with a soft or hard side shot.

I just hope we get at least all court play back. Just watched a Mac documentary, so exciting. I don't like the boring serve wins, hope one wins the tie break kind of tennis but can't we have some middle ground? I mean these slow courts are ridiculous, I miss ALL ASPECTS of Tennis.

 

[HunterST]

If you are not a fan of net play then that would be fun. I'd figure that out after 2 games because I'd be drop shotting and lobbing you.

The best way to neutralize a basher is to bring them to net where they are not comfortable.

I used to be that guy -im still not a great volleyer, but I made myself do it over and over.

Also - placement over power.

I'm competent at the net. Definitely able to hit pressing volleys and end the point from up there. It's just not what my game is based around.

 

[5263]

Pace. It's probably the first aspect of a players game that we notice. If someone hits with a lot of pace, we usually deem them a good player. Lately, though, I've been thinking about how people win matches. It seems like it comes down to having a consistent rally ball that causes your opponent to be inconsistent.

When we try to hit with a lot of power, we're trying to make the ball go so fast that our opponents can't handle it well and make errors or give up easy shots. .

Hunter, you bring up a very good pt here. We so often think if a little is good, then
more is better. In baseball, most even get excited about how far home
runs go over the fence...as if a HR could be better for being longer.
Because of this attitude, many players just keep wanting more power,
well beyond what is useful or consistent.

Imo we need to strive for a good crisp pace for our level. If the pace is good for
the level, you can work your targets from side to side with little concern of
the shots getting attacked...even if they are a bit on the short side. Good solid
pace will keep them from attacking a shorter ball when hit to the right target area.
Hitting good pace to the right spots will make for a good rally that will elicit
some softer short balls for you to attack. It also allows you to mix up your
pace a bit, along with the spins you use.

Once your change of pace, spins and moving them earns you a easy short ball,
then you can go a stronger attack.