Ratings need oversight

[rcaldwell01]

I think the USTA needs to put an advisory committee by section (local pros, league coordinators, whatever) on top of the computer ratings process, this thing has gotten out of control. This isn't a rant about me, but in my section (MVTA) our 4.5 mens SENIORS team won nationals. Half of this team got bumped out of 4.5 league play. Now I understand winning nationals is a ratings detractor, but 4.5 Seniors is not on par with 4.5 league play these guys getting bumped out is a joke as they are .500 at best players in the normal 4.5 league. I can understand a "seniors exclusive" rating or something but removing them from 4.5 to 5.0 is a joke. I on the other hand played on the 4.5 team that won the MVTA section and my team advanced to nationals. I was unable to attend nationals. Here is the kicker, my early start rating got bumped to 5.0 (no problem I had won a decent amount so it was probably justified) but when year ends came out I was adjusted back down to 4.5 with no appeal (probably auto appeal?????). Three of the guys on our team that went to nationals and played all got bumped out of 4.5 to 5.0 not usually a big deal but these guys had records that were very average in league play, sectional play and nationals. I get the overweight on sectionals and nationals but I get my rating back and they get bumped despite the fact that my overall record was dramatically better inclusive of tournaments and sectionals? Here is my point, why is there not an oversight committee on top of this? I get it is subject to maniupulation but a decent representation of people to overlook some of these ratings makes sense. Keep sandbaggers up but keep legit benchmark guys in the right league. This system is not helping to grow league tennis.

 

[Cruzer]

What would an advisory council adivse about? Bring back visual raters? The USTA uses a computer program to churn out the ratings each year and it has raised the ratings of probably hundreds of players that maybe/probably it should not have their rating go up. There are probably hundreds more that should have had their rating go down and they did not.
If someone does not like their rating they can appeal. In my section at least seniors over 60 get a bigger margin for having their rating lowered, .10 instead of .05.
Ratings are all over the map and will continue to be so. For me the solution is to find the level I want to play at and play there. If you think your rating is too high then you may have to endure one season of getting blown off the court before the rating computer program moves you back down. It certainly seems in Norcal that everyone and their dog has had their rating go up.

 

[JavierLW]

What would an advisory council adivse about? Bring back visual raters? The USTA uses a computer program to churn out the ratings each year and it has raised the ratings of probably hundreds of players that maybe/probably it should not have their rating go up. There are probably hundreds more that should have had their rating go down and they did not.
If someone does not like their rating they can appeal. In my section at least seniors over 60 get a bigger margin for having their rating lowered, .10 instead of .05.
Ratings are all over the map and will continue to be so. For me the solution is to find the level I want to play at and play there. If you think your rating is too high then you may have to endure one season of getting blown off the court before the rating computer program moves you back down. It certainly seems in Norcal that everyone and their dog has had their rating go up.

Well if everyone and their dog is getting rated up, then they shouldnt complain because they are playing the same people this year that they did last year for most of the year.

 

[JavierLW]

I think the USTA needs to put an advisory committee by section (local pros, league coordinators, whatever) on top of the computer ratings process, this thing has gotten out of control. This isn't a rant about me, but in my section (MVTA) our 4.5 mens SENIORS team won nationals. Half of this team got bumped out of 4.5 league play. Now I understand winning nationals is a ratings detractor, but 4.5 Seniors is not on par with 4.5 league play these guys getting bumped out is a joke as they are .500 at best players in the normal 4.5 league. I can understand a "seniors exclusive" rating or something but removing them from 4.5 to 5.0 is a joke. I on the other hand played on the 4.5 team that won the MVTA section and my team advanced to nationals. I was unable to attend nationals. Here is the kicker, my early start rating got bumped to 5.0 (no problem I had won a decent amount so it was probably justified) but when year ends came out I was adjusted back down to 4.5 with no appeal (probably auto appeal?????). Three of the guys on our team that went to nationals and played all got bumped out of 4.5 to 5.0 not usually a big deal but these guys had records that were very average in league play, sectional play and nationals. I get the overweight on sectionals and nationals but I get my rating back and they get bumped despite the fact that my overall record was dramatically better inclusive of tournaments and sectionals? Here is my point, why is there not an oversight committee on top of this? I get it is subject to maniupulation but a decent representation of people to overlook some of these ratings makes sense. Keep sandbaggers up but keep legit benchmark guys in the right league. This system is not helping to grow league tennis.

You might as well be talking about religion here.

One party is going to complain that too many people are getting rated up.

Another party is going to say that those very same people (who are killing their local leagues probally) SHOULD get rated up and belong at the higher level.

Probally 95% of all teams do not even go to any sort of playoffs, so I dont see how allowing over-rated players to constantly stay at a level that they are easily crushing (at the local level) is good for growing tennis.

Your average player (who for the most part isnt posting on this board), just wants to play some tennis for a few months and wants to have a chance at succeeding. If they dont win, they seem to sign up next year anyway.

It's funny how when someone complains about over-rated players, people sometimes suggest that they should just chill out and "have fun" and play tennis.

Yet when people finally do get rated up, rather they think it's right or not, they cant simply just "have fun" and play tennis at their new level.

That's life, sometimes you do well at a certain level, and you may lose a lot the next year in the higher level. You shouldnt feel special or feel you have some sort of right to always dominate your particular level because it's really just a fluke that you happen to be at the exact right area of the pecking order at the right time. (because there are a lot of players that are far better than you, that will never make it to the championships because they are playing above you but arent lucky enough to be at the top of any level)

 

[lostinamerica]

Well if everyone and their dog is getting rated up, then they shouldnt complain because they are playing the same people this year that they did last year for most of the year.

I agree. From my observation,pretty much everyone and their dog got rated up this year. Some will appeal down...

From seing so many people rated up, I think the USTA may actually be trying to get many players back to where they belong. I played league in 1990 and my 4.5 team in 1990 would have been a solid and competitive (but certainly not dominant) 4.0 team today. With so many bumps (I have not heard a single friend/acquaintence get moved down), the USTA maybe trying to get player where they belong.

 

[GatorTennis]

Maybe they should simply take grievences more seriously. In my section, there will be a 3.0 player who can hit a heavy topsin off his one handed backhand, in addition to a killer kick serve. Anyone can see that he is a 3.5 and possibly a 4.0. But he will be a 3.0 no matter how many grievences are filed.

 

[spot]

I say it over and over but I will say it again- get rid of the team wins concept in the regular season and the ratings will work much better. Determine who wins the division based on the total number of matches won during the season- that way there are far fewer "meaningless" matches for players to dump to keep their ratings low. Right now if you take the first 3 matches then the last 2 are absolutely meaningless and people are free to massage their scores however they like. But if you change it so that the total number of point is what determines the division champion then it will be much tougher for people to keep their ratings down because EVERY match matters. Of course in the playoffs keep it where taking 3 points advances you to the next round.

 

[JavierLW]

I say it over and over but I will say it again- get rid of the team wins concept in the regular season and the ratings will work much better. Determine who wins the division based on the total number of matches won during the season- that way there are far fewer "meaningless" matches for players to dump to keep their ratings low. Right now if you take the first 3 matches then the last 2 are absolutely meaningless and people are free to massage their scores however they like. But if you change it so that the total number of point is what determines the division champion then it will be much tougher for people to keep their ratings down because EVERY match matters. Of course in the playoffs keep it where taking 3 points advances you to the next round.

Actually in my league we already do that way.

All it assures is that you need 8 sandbaggers instead of just 4. And for the middle of the road teams who just want to keep from having a really bad record you need 1 or 2, to assure that you dont go 0-5, or 1-4. (because going 0-5 in this system is a huge disaster compared to going 2-3)

Usually the teams that win in this system (EVERY YEAR) are hard to beat at any position, which means the other teams have to do some catch up sandbagging...

The biggest sandbaggers that I know personally that went to 3.5 Nationals (and took 4th) came from this system. They just countered it by finding a multitude of really good players (including several that are probally 4.5 which were hidden for much fo the year). They dominated so greatly by winning 5-0 and 4-1 all the time, that they had it clinched well in advance of the end of the season, where they went into true sandbagger mode and started throwing sets and matches to burn their rating down.

If one teams gets too far ahead in this system, it's almost impossible to catch up, since now you have to hope to win 4-1 or 5-0 yourself. (and that they somehow lose a ton of individual matchs with wont happen)

Also it creates some strange situations. My team went 6-4 for this summer, but because we go by individual wins, we came in 4th place, because another team that went 5-5, had 29 wins (out of 50) and we only had 28.

Also we beat the second place team (30 wins) both times we played them 3-2, but that's totally meaningless (other than it felt good).

It's interesting when it's 2-2, it really doesnt mean as much who wins that last match as it does in the team win system. You feel good because your "TEAM" won, but it doesnt mean anything in the standings. It almost means more when you are down 1-3, because 1-4 is horrible compared to 2-3. (it's a 3 match diffrence, versus a 1 match diffrence)

We played the first place team the 2nd time around and had lost all 3 doubles matches to go down 0-3. Both of our singles were in 3rd sets, and it was almost a victory when we won them both because going 2-3 isnt really that bad.

Im not knocking this system mind you, Ive been in it for years, and Im used to it, and it does create a lot of challenges. But it by no means does anything to stop sandbagging, and if anything it just creates more, and makes it more widespread.

 

[rcaldwell01]

Missed the point

my point was these guys had barely average records at 4.5 league play, but got bumped because of the seniors ratings. There shouldn't be that big of a leap to say the 5.0 seniors league was weaker than normal league play. I think the USTA made a mistake taking visual ratings away from the system. Make some of the club pros who run make lots of money on adult programs have some input. Just "bumping everyone up to there "right" level" is insane. How many legitimate 5.0 players are their? These guys who got bumped to 5.0 have no legitimate chance to compete and because of nationals are "unappealable." Again these guys aren't going to form a 5.0 seniors team, there's no freakin competition. They are going to go play golf. This isn't good for the sport and the computer hasn't done anything to remove sandbaggers from league play, as has been pointed out, there is so much gaming of the system. My only point is the USTA needs to lean on these local districts and the districts on local pros to help keep the leagues competitive. I see more people exiting league tennis in the last three years than I see joining, that is just in my local Heart of America district, but numbers are getting thinner and that is not good.

 

[rcaldwell01]

Missed the point

my point was these guys had barely average records at 4.5 league play, but got bumped because of the seniors ratings. There shouldn't be that big of a leap to say the 4.5 seniors league was weaker than normal league play. I think the USTA made a mistake taking visual ratings away from the system. Make some of the club pros who run make lots of money on adult programs have some input. Just "bumping everyone up to there "right" level" is insane. How many legitimate 5.0 players are their? These guys who got bumped to 5.0 have no legitimate chance to compete and because of nationals are "unappealable." Again these guys aren't going to form a 5.0 seniors team, there's no freakin competition. They are going to go play golf. This isn't good for the sport and the computer hasn't done anything to remove sandbaggers from league play, as has been pointed out, there is so much gaming of the system. My only point is the USTA needs to lean on these local districts and the districts on local pros to help keep the leagues competitive. I see more people exiting league tennis in the last three years than I see joining, that is just in my local Heart of America district, but numbers are getting thinner and that is not good.

 

[JavierLW]

my point was these guys had barely average records at 4.5 league play, but got bumped because of the seniors ratings. There shouldn't be that big of a leap to say the 4.5 seniors league was weaker than normal league play. I think the USTA made a mistake taking visual ratings away from the system. Make some of the club pros who run make lots of money on adult programs have some input. Just "bumping everyone up to there "right" level" is insane. How many legitimate 5.0 players are their? These guys who got bumped to 5.0 have no legitimate chance to compete and because of nationals are "unappealable." Again these guys aren't going to form a 5.0 seniors team, there's no freakin competition. They are going to go play golf. This isn't good for the sport and the computer hasn't done anything to remove sandbaggers from league play, as has been pointed out, there is so much gaming of the system. My only point is the USTA needs to lean on these local districts and the districts on local pros to help keep the leagues competitive. I see more people exiting league tennis in the last three years than I see joining, that is just in my local Heart of America district, but numbers are getting thinner and that is not good.

Im sorry but if someone is getting all the way to nationals at any level, there is a very good chance that they have surpassed that level, senior or otherwise.

It sounds like they must of at least dominated the 4.5 senior level until they got to nationals.

They should be happy they got there, and just have fun and play tennis in 5.0. If they are going to quit just because they "cant compete", that's their own fault. Everyone else (the majority) that probally is getting dominated by them in the 4.5 senior league is expected to just "have fun" and take it so now it's their turn.

That's a loser attitude to me. If they are afraid they cant win, they are just going to quit. It makes me wonder if those kind of people truely even enjoy playing tennis, or if they are just in it to feel good about themselves because they need to win a certain amount of the time.....

 

[JLyon]

to con't this point, the losers are the players who within 2 hours of ratings coming out are already filing an auto-appeal to move back down for the 4th straight year. Gee USTA maybe these guys are telling you something like they do not belong at their current level.
The End of Year Ratings end up being a waste when 80% of the players can appeal right back down and con't winning.

 

[andfor]

my point was these guys had barely average records at 4.5 league play, but got bumped because of the seniors ratings. There shouldn't be that big of a leap to say the 4.5 seniors league was weaker than normal league play. I think the USTA made a mistake taking visual ratings away from the system. Make some of the club pros who run make lots of money on adult programs have some input. Just "bumping everyone up to there "right" level" is insane. How many legitimate 5.0 players are their? These guys who got bumped to 5.0 have no legitimate chance to compete and because of nationals are "unappealable." Again these guys aren't going to form a 5.0 seniors team, there's no freakin competition. They are going to go play golf. This isn't good for the sport and the computer hasn't done anything to remove sandbaggers from league play, as has been pointed out, there is so much gaming of the system. My only point is the USTA needs to lean on these local districts and the districts on local pros to help keep the leagues competitive. I see more people exiting league tennis in the last three years than I see joining, that is just in my local Heart of America district, but numbers are getting thinner and that is not good.

Ryan,
The players in question all had very, very successful seasons locally, sectionally, nationally, senior and adult. With the exception of maybe and I stress maybe one player they all pretty much win way more than your reported ".500 at best players in the normal 4.5 league". Dickerson, Scott, Whiting, White and Watson should be proud of what they accomplished this year and just deal with being moved up. The problem is not theirs as much as it is the USTA neglecting organized play for the advanced players 4.5+. Many 5.0 and 5.5 players play down because the USTA has let league play take over and age group tournamnets die. Maybe the USTA should have a senior 5.0 league even if it is held only at the section or nationals.

p.s. Tell Huston Pulford hello from Andy Forsyth from Junction City (no longer live there). I used to play tennis against him back in highschool.
Andy

 

[onehandbh]

How should older guys (40-45) who tried to get on the tour
be rated (NTRP)?

Example A:
Played a few satellite qualifying tournaments back in 1993. Made it
into the main draw once & lost.

Example B:
Played a bunch of satellite qualifying tournaments say 1991 -1994.
Main draw record (in satellites) only 5-13 in singles and 6-18 in
doubles.

 

[JavierLW]

Ryan,
The players in question all had very, very successful seasons locally, sectionally, nationally, senior and adult. With the exception of maybe and I stress maybe one player they all pretty much win way more than your reported ".500 at best players in the normal 4.5 league". Dickerson, Scott, Whiting, White and Watson should be proud of what they accomplished this year and just deal with being moved up. The problem is not theirs as much as it is the USTA neglecting organized play for the advanced players 4.5+. Many 5.0 and 5.5 players play down because the USTA has let league play take over and age group tournamnets die. Maybe the USTA should have a senior 5.0 league even if it is held only at the section or nationals.

p.s. Tell Huston Pulford hello from Andy Forsyth from Junction City (no longer live there). I used to play tennis against him back in highschool.
Andy

You bring up a good point. The local leagues need to do more to keep these leagues going, especially at the higher divisions.

That's the ONLY thing I think that's missing from the self-rating system. When you had to go to a rating clinic it was a great way to meet captains, and find a team if you havent found one already. Many times in my area if a partcular division was short on teams, the league would try to recruit players and captains itself. (I was on one of those once at 3.0)

Now it's harder to find a team unless the league goes out and re-cruits. Existing teams only look for good players usually (because they have to compete with tons of underrated players) so it's hard to find anyone sometimes if you are new and just looking to join.

I feel that the USTA as a whole has really neglected league tennis, especially when it comes to adults, and especially at some of the local levels.

But this guy is ranting about a bunch of 4.5 guys that got to go to NATIONALS. Who cares? There are the other 98%+ of the players who never are going to have that experience but still sign up to play year after year no matter what level they get stuck at, Id care more about them because they actually like playing tennis.

 

[andfor]

You bring up a good point. The local leagues need to do more to keep these leagues going, especially at the higher divisions.

That's the ONLY thing I think that's missing from the self-rating system. When you had to go to a rating clinic it was a great way to meet captains, and find a team if you havent found one already. Many times in my area if a partcular division was short on teams, the league would try to recruit players and captains itself. (I was on one of those once at 3.0)

Now it's harder to find a team unless the league goes out and re-cruits. Existing teams only look for good players usually (because they have to compete with tons of underrated players) so it's hard to find anyone sometimes if you are new and just looking to join.

I feel that the USTA as a whole has really neglected league tennis, especially when it comes to adults, and especially at some of the local levels.

But this guy is ranting about a bunch of 4.5 guys that got to go to NATIONALS. Who cares? There are the other 98%+ of the players who never are going to have that experience but still sign up to play year after year no matter what level they get stuck at, Id care more about them because they actually like playing tennis.

I have seen the stats but it's been a few years and I can't find them. Somewhere in the range of 75-85% of all tennis players are 4.0 and below. I could be off some but the point is the USTA for the most part derives most all it's league fees from these folks. The revenue from this group has to be a huge number. So who do you think they cater to? Follow the money.

 

[JavierLW]

I have seen the stats but it's been a few years and I can't find them. Somewhere in the range of 75-85% of all tennis players are 4.0 and below. I could be off some but the point is the USTA for the most part derives most all it's league fees from these folks. The revenue from this group has to be a huge number. So who do you think they cater to? Follow the money.

I think you highly over-estimate who is running these leagues. If they had any sort of logical business sense, they would be in some other field.

Even if you look at it from a money perspective, they are not catering to most of their players. They focus a lot of attention on sponserships and the national, sectional, and district tournaments, and they do very little on the local level other than allow people to run it.

And of course 75-85% of everyone is 4.0 or lower. Do you think that something is wrong with that??? It's not because 5.0 players are being left out in the cold, it's because we dont have that many 5.0 players. (it's really really really hard to get to a certain level, and your casual player who works 40 hours a week isnt every going to make it, anyone with some athletic ability can be good at 3.0 or 3.5)

 

[andfor]

I think you highly over-estimate who is running these leagues. If they had any sort of logical business sense, they would be in some other field.

Even if you look at it from a money perspective, they are not catering to most of their players. They focus a lot of attention on sponserships and the national, sectional, and district tournaments, and they do very little on the local level other than allow people to run it.

And of course 75-85% of everyone is 4.0 or lower. Do you think that something is wrong with that??? It's not because 5.0 players are being left out in the cold, it's because we dont have that many 5.0 players. (it's really really really hard to get to a certain level, and your casual player who works 40 hours a week isnt every going to make it, anyone with some athletic ability can be good at 3.0 or 3.5)

Your missing my point. The USTA is the one making all the money not the local league coodinators. Although I do believe the local LC in charge does get paid something. I do not believe the USTA intends the local coodinator position to be a full-time business/career. The LC may possibly be a volunteer.

By catering I mean the league is set up to accomodate the majority of potential participants, 2.5 to 4.0 players. There is nothing wrong with that group, it's the biggest, no offense intended. I believe there are plenty of 5.0's. The system has force them down to 4.5 and sometimes 4.0 because the USTA does nothing to try to promote, recruit and correctly identify the 5.0+ players. At least they are not fully enforcing their rating guidelines. The USTA has also let age group tournaments die on the vine as they watch the league numbers grow. Age Group Tournaments used to be where the the top competition went to play.

My suggestions:
Ad a 5.0 seniors division.
Ad a 35 and over League Division.
Promote, support and provide incentinves to host and hold Age Group Tournaments. The USTA need to help scheudle some age group tournaments thoughout the year and avoid conflict with league play that often draws potential tournament participants away from playing in them.

 

[JavierLW]

Your missing my point. The USTA is the one making all the money not the local league coodinators. Although I do believe the local LC in charge does get paid something. I do not believe the USTA intends the local coodinator position to be a full-time business/career. The LC may possibly be a volunteer.

By catering I mean the league is set up to accomodate the majority of potential participants, 2.5 to 4.0 players. There is nothing wrong with that group, it's the biggest, no offense intended. I believe there are plenty of 5.0's. The system has force them down to 4.5 and sometimes 4.0 because the USTA does nothing to try to promote, recruit and correctly identify the 5.0+ players. At least they are not fully enforcing their rating guidelines. The USTA has also let age group tournaments die on the vine as they watch the league numbers grow. Age Group Tournaments used to be where the the top competition went to play.

My suggestions:
Ad a 5.0 seniors division.
Ad a 35 and over League Division.
Promote, support and provide incentinves to host and hold Age Group Tournaments. The USTA need to help scheudle some age group tournaments thoughout the year and avoid conflict with league play that often draws potential tournament participants away from playing in them.

The USTA isnt promoting any division. Local league and tournament organizers are the only ones who promote tennis for anyone. The National USTA does very little other than run the National tournament.

The lower division are just full because there are enough players to begin with that it can sustain itself. There could be EVEN MORE players if the league stepped in and promoted them.

(and they are losing players at those levels as well, beginners who are starting for the first time find it impossible to get involved in 3.0 Men for example because it's full of 3.5/4.0 players)

Besides in the OP's post, these particular guys seem to have a 5.0 league to go to, they just sound like they wont because they are afraid of losing.

 

[andfor]

The USTA isnt promoting any division. Local league and tournament organizers are the only ones who promote tennis for anyone. The National USTA does very little other than run the National tournament.

The lower division are just full because there are enough players to begin with that it can sustain itself. There could be EVEN MORE players if the league stepped in and promoted them.

(and they are losing players at those levels as well, beginners who are starting for the first time find it impossible to get involved in 3.0 Men for example because it's full of 3.5/4.0 players)

Besides in the OP's post, these particular guys seem to have a 5.0 league to go to, they just sound like they wont because they are afraid of losing.

I agree the USTA need to be more proactive on many levels concerning adult tennis. League play, tournaments and adult player development on the grass roots level needs much more attention than they currently give.

Re the original OP's post, I agree with you 100%

 

[raiden031]

I agree that people are forced to sandbag because there is nothing available for players above 4.5 in certain areas. Do they do open level leagues or only open level tournaments? I'm sure alot of high-rated players would want to play open leagues rather than try to sandbag into a 4.5 or 4.0 league.

 

[andfor]

I agree that people are forced to sandbag because there is nothing available for players above 4.5 in certain areas. Do they do open level leagues or only open level tournaments? I'm sure alot of high-rated players would want to play open leagues rather than try to sandbag into a 4.5 or 4.0 league.

Yes. http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/reports/Championship/Reports/ReportMain.asp
Local and state participation is limited to none at the Open and 5.5 league play. It does not fix the problem. The USTA needs to do more than roll the balls out on the court and expect folks to show up.

 

[rcaldwell01]

again the point being

Ryan,
The players in question all had very, very successful seasons locally, sectionally, nationally, senior and adult. With the exception of maybe and I stress maybe one player they all pretty much win way more than your reported ".500 at best players in the normal 4.5 league". Dickerson, Scott, Whiting, White and Watson should be proud of what they accomplished this year and just deal with being moved up. The problem is not theirs as much as it is the USTA neglecting organized play for the advanced players 4.5+. Many 5.0 and 5.5 players play down because the USTA has let league play take over and age group tournamnets die. Maybe the USTA should have a senior 5.0 league even if it is held only at the section or nationals.

p.s. Tell Huston Pulford hello from Andy Forsyth from Junction City (no longer live there). I used to play tennis against him back in highschool.
Andy


Andy,

Got to respond. Again, the guys that got bumped aren't doing the complaining, I am. They are not 5.0's. NOt one of those guys who got bumped is a 5.0 at the league level. I know and have played each and everyone of them and not one of them can compete at the non-senior 5.0 level, no way. I think it is a joke that I get bumped back to 4.5 just because I didn't play nationals and these guys get booted out of 4.5 league play because of a senior national win. I mean I got bumped back, the system is great, my record at 4.5 was .900, the majority of those guys with the exception of 1 were hanging around .500 and some substantially below (sorry Whitey!). Tennis would be better off if those guys were in league play, not "playing golf." So my thought is "who the h#&& at the USTA thinks not having oversight is a good idea?" The point is that nationals has become a death sentence, fine everyone that doesn't go wants the guys that go and win bumped out. Sandbagging is a huge problem, I got it. But this ratings system is highly flawed (we all know that) and my point is the local league coordinators and club pros have it in their interest to keep the leagues competitive not just to let the computer bump up, appeal, play try again, bump up gone. The leagues aren't healthy.

 

[andfor]

Andy,

Got to respond. Again, the guys that got bumped aren't doing the complaining, I am. They are not 5.0's. NOt one of those guys who got bumped is a 5.0 at the league level. I know and have played each and everyone of them and not one of them can compete at the non-senior 5.0 level, no way. I think it is a joke that I get bumped back to 4.5 just because I didn't play nationals and these guys get booted out of 4.5 league play because of a senior national win. I mean I got bumped back, the system is great, my record at 4.5 was .900, the majority of those guys with the exception of 1 were hanging around .500 and some substantially below (sorry Whitey!). Tennis would be better off if those guys were in league play, not "playing golf." So my thought is "who the h#&& at the USTA thinks not having oversight is a good idea?" The point is that nationals has become a death sentence, fine everyone that doesn't go wants the guys that go and win bumped out. Sandbagging is a huge problem, I got it. But this ratings system is highly flawed (we all know that) and my point is the local league coordinators and club pros have it in their interest to keep the leagues competitive not just to let the computer bump up, appeal, play try again, bump up gone. The leagues aren't healthy.

Look, I have seen their records and without going through them one by one they are all well above .500. They won Nationals against some darn good teams and player senior or not. Could it be that maybe you and they are better than you think? Could it be that maybe they could be 5.0's and the 5.0's locally in KC are really 5.5's.

Your friends are tweeners, (just between 4.5 & 5.0). I know some guys like this. They rarely lose at 4.5 but when they get bumpd or play 5.0 they lose most of the time. Their only hope is to get partnered with a really good 5.0 and possibly win a doubles match. Although I understand the problem I have a hard time feeling sorry for guys that just won Nationals.

My suggestion is that the USTA start a 5.0 seniors league. If they did most likely it would only be held at the sectional and national championships.

 

[Cindysphinx]

How about this?

You get one automatic appeal every five years. Use it this year (2008 ), gotta wait until 2013 before you get another.

Better not waste it . . .

 

[JLyon]

can anyone explain this player remaining at current level despite going 21-0!!!
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/...DB0068917CD03E3685144B2A29383F0E1C&CYear=2007

 

[andfor]

can anyone explain this player remaining at current level despite going 21-0!!!
http://tennislink.usta.com/leagues/...DB0068917CD03E3685144B2A29383F0E1C&CYear=2007

Holy Cow! That's a great find and I believe part of the problem. I looked at this guy and the only thing I noticed is of the matches I looked at he did not beat anyone who was 5.0 or was moved to 5.0.

Someone should start a thread where we all post rediculous winning records of league players who don't get bumped. It may be the only way we get the USTA to make any effort to fix things. They only seem to respond when a very large group of people complain. They sometimes react to stop a public relations nightmares.

 

[DrewRafter8]

Here's another example...

Guy in Downeast was rated 3.5 this year. He lost 3 matches at 4.0 singles and only won 4 games at the most. Because he had 0 and 0 losses, USTA did not consider these matches. He then played Mixed with 3.5 partners at 8.0. He proceeded to lose all of his matches there. Ratings came out and they bumped him to 4.5 with a Mixed rating. He appealed down to 4.0.

Funny part is, he lost in a tournament this year to a 3.0 who had just been bumped to 3.5.

My understanding is that 0 and 0 doesn't count and that splitting set equals a tie. I would love to see the USTA's algorithm. I think they should consider wins and losses over games won.