Returning fast and low serve in doubles

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Is there anything special technique-wise for returning serve with good pace that doesn't quite bounce higher than the knee? In doubles, this gives me a lot of trouble, especially on the backhand side. I don't have the control to block it back low crosscourt without getting hammered by the net player. Every time it goes to my backhand, I chip/slice it back. This server happens to have a really good serve&volley. I constantly worry about hitting a return above chest height that gets killed, and then I end up slicing it into the net a lot. I can practice slice lob as a serve return. But wondering if there is anything I'm missing on the technique side.
 
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LeeD

Bionic Poster
Slicing it back is highest percentage, but if you're getting poached on your returns, mix in a slice lob DEEP CC, then slice a few DTL.
When ROS, step towards the server and keep solid posture, never lean back unless you want to feed the poacher.
 

nyta2

Hall of Fame
Is there anything special technique-wise for returning serve with good pace that doesn't quite bounce higher than the knee? In doubles, this gives me a lot of trouble, especially on the backhand side. I don't have the control to block it back low crosscourt without getting hammered by the net player. Every time it goes to my backhand, I chip/slice it back. This server happens to have a really good serve&volley. I constantly worry about hitting a return above chest height that gets killed, and then I end up slicing it into the net a lot. I can practice slice lob as a serve return. But wondering if there is anything I'm missing on the technique side.
hehe the biggest weapon of pancake servers.
need to develop a very abbreviated loop (or no loop), and make sure you’re pressing forward (body weight) through contact
can always just lob it back
 

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Are you talking about a wide serve to your BH? If so, I would suggest standing very wide and daring him to serve to your FH gap. Many flat servers at lower levels can only serve wide at a decent % (they need the longer service box at the wide angle to keep the ball in) and so, it is always a good idea to shade wide and see if they can hit decent DTM serves.

Alternately, I would return from the deuce side (if you are a righty) when you play him as the wide serves will go to your FH. If your best BH is a slice, it is easier to do this inside-out from deuce rather than CC from ad to avoid the opposing net player. If you have a 1HBH in particular, you have to practice CC drives with your BH if you want to play ad in doubles - you can’t survive just with CC slices and lobs.

The other thing is to have a return stance with legs wide apart and body somewhat low like many pros do - watch Djokovic. Then you split-step and move forward with a chest lean where your body center of gravity is still low - this makes it easier to return low serves. Caution is that you need strong legs (calves and thighs) for that.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Are you talking about a wide serve to your BH? If so, I would suggest standing very wide and daring him to serve to your FH gap. Many flat servers at lower levels can only serve wide at a decent % (they need the longer service box at the wide angle to keep the ball in) and so, it is always a good idea to shade wide and see if they can hit decent DTM serves.

Alternately, I would return from the deuce side (if you are a righty) when you play him as the wide serves will go to your FH. If your best BH is a slice, it is easier to do this inside-out from deuce rather than CC from ad to avoid the opposing net player. If you have a 1HBH in particular, you have to practice CC drives with your BH if you want to play ad in doubles - you can’t survive just with CC slices and lobs.

The other thing is to have a return stance with legs wide apart and body somewhat low like many pros do - watch Djokovic. Then you split-step and move forward with a chest lean where your body center of gravity is still low - this makes it easier to return low serves. Caution is that you need strong legs (calves and thighs) for that.
It's the wide serve on ad court. I've been shading wide already. the guy would try to hit DTM in 20-30% of his first serve. I tried wide base to get low, it helped only a little bit. Maybe it makes more difference when I hit drive return. I switched from 1HBH to 2HB a few month ago. Have the stroke for CC drive/topspin, but not the consistency for matches yet. I slice and run around to hit forehand on ad side 95% of the time. only drive CC with 2HB when given a very comfortable ball during baseline rally.
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
hehe the biggest weapon of pancake servers.
need to develop a very abbreviated loop (or no loop), and make sure you’re pressing forward (body weight) through contact
can always just lob it back
too big of a takeback is definitely part of my problem
 

johnmccabe

Hall of Fame
Slicing it back is highest percentage, but if you're getting poached on your returns, mix in a slice lob DEEP CC, then slice a few DTL.
When ROS, step towards the server and keep solid posture, never lean back unless you want to feed the poacher.
the quickest solution is probably indeed bringing more variations into my slice.
 

jz000

Semi-Pro
Lob is my safest option. 4.5s and under hate high floaty balls. It's very hard to kill. Get ready for a lobfest/topspinfest.
Or just swing at it. The return will seem even faster than the serve!

Slice is too slow, and predictable. Plus, you can't slice it DTL on a low flat serve like that on the Ad side. If the serve was a little slower/higher, then by all means, slice wide and go to the net.
 

LeeD

Bionic Poster
If you cannot slice at all, don't do it.
Slice dtl is usually easier than sharp cc, since you're late anyways!
 

LuckyR

Legend
Is there anything special technique-wise for returning serve with good pace that doesn't quite bounce higher than the knee? In doubles, this gives me a lot of trouble, especially on the backhand side. I don't have the control to block it back low crosscourt without getting hammered by the net player. Every time it goes to my backhand, I chip/slice it back. This server happens to have a really good serve&volley. I constantly worry about hitting a return above chest height that gets killed, and then I end up slicing it into the net a lot. I can practice slice lob as a serve return. But wondering if there is anything I'm missing on the technique side.

I assume you are right handed, returning in the ad court. If so, is the server hitting lefty slice? Or perhaps righty underspin?

If the former, since you are likely hitting from your alley, a topspin (or flat-ish) BH return DTL into the alley, will catch your opposing poaching netman napping once. After that, he'll hesitate to hit BH poaches off of your CC returns. The other alternative is to chip short (to catch the S&V server) very CC, ie beyond the reach of the netman.

If it is righty underspin, you've got to hit it flat or even better, with some topspin, so it doesn't sit up for the poaching netman. You can add some pace if you can hit with topspin, such that you can go after the netman. Try to make him hit volleys at waist level (or below) from second volley position. Since he will be poach with his BH volley, many won't be able to handle the pace, and your netman might get some easy plays if he chooses to poach.

Long story short, slice returns are easy for you to make, but difficult to get past the netman (as you noted already). You need a different hammer.
 

Fintft

G.O.A.T.
Alternately, I would return from the deuce side (if you are a righty) when you play him as the wide serves will go to your FH. If your best BH is a slice, it is easier to do this inside-out from deuce rather than CC from ad to avoid the opposing net player. If you have a 1HBH in particular, you have to practice CC drives with your BH if you want to play ad in doubles - you can’t survive just with CC slices and lobs.

The other thing is to have a return stance with legs wide apart and body somewhat low like many pros do - watch Djokovic. Then you split-step and move forward with a chest lean where your body center of gravity is still low - this makes it easier to return low serves. Caution is that you need strong legs (calves and thighs) for that.

You are reading my mind :)

I would start with your latter point, a must and much helpful! OP, just trust your shots and watch the ball/keep eyes at contact through contact as you move fw like @socallefty describes and add a bit more TS, to lift your FH over the net, but you can still hit flatish and hard enough.

To your former point I would add: make him hit mostly to your FH, you can even show him a gap to your wide side if he glances at you and move right during his toss to cover it. But you can't have too much of a gap on the wide side (at least not me, with high inertia, as I ended up running into the bubble's wall if I had to chase the serve), it's better to sit on it (with no gap) as he might still serve (low and hard) to your FH side.
Besides BH slices, I did manage to drive a couple of 1HBHs down the middle actually, again from the deuce side.
 
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