Sampras: Overrated Volleyer?

[Azzurri]

I had a chance to talk with Todd Martin at the Memphis tournament a few years ago. I asked him who the best volleyer in the game? Without hesitating, he said "Pat Rafter,
hands down". I tend to agree with Todd. Pat had to play alot more tougher volleys. Pete's volley had a tendency to be a bit wristy.

not getting your point. Did Martin say Pete volley's were wristy or you? Just because he named rafter (its his personal opinion) does not mean Pete had any glaring flaw.

 

[Azzurri]

Pete had the best first volley in tennis. Which is exactly why he didn't have to play that many shots at net or why it seems that he was only effective on those sitters.

Rafter on the other hand was safer with that first volley, going for placement instead of a winner, which meant that he then had to make other volleys to win the point, usually resulting in some great athleticism. It was more impressive to watch, but that didn't mean his net game was better than Pete's, quite the contrary.

Pete also has the best half volley of all time. ABSOLUTE MAGIC, the amount of power he could get off a tough half volley and push it to the base line is unparalleled.

excellent post.

 

[jimbo333]

my god are you ill-informed. Cash and Rafter had nothing much other than their volley game. Henman may have had a better ground game than those two yet Raft and Cash won majors. You see my simpleton friend, these guys had a terrific mental game while Henman was a choker.

Sampras was heads and above a volleyer compared to Henman.

Henman was certainly a choker anyway

 

[jimbo333]

Sampras had one of the greatest volley/net games ever. Is he better than Edberg, Mac and Laver (not from my experience but based on others)? No, but he would be considered an A- volleyer if those 3 are A level. His half-volley was better than anyone I have ever seen and that includes Mac and Edberg. He was not at all overrated.

Odd, but this thread is as foolsih as a thread titled "Was Agassi's ground game overrated?"...

Yes this sums it up very well. Sampras one of the greatest ever volleyers!

Edberg, McEnroe and Laver slightly better though

 

[jimbo333]

Pete had the best first volley in tennis. Which is exactly why he didn't have to play that many shots at net or why it seems that he was only effective on those sitters.

Rafter on the other hand was safer with that first volley, going for placement instead of a winner, which meant that he then had to make other volleys to win the point, usually resulting in some great athleticism. It was more impressive to watch, but that didn't mean his net game was better than Pete's, quite the contrary.

Pete also has the best half volley of all time. ABSOLUTE MAGIC, the amount of power he could get off a tough half volley and push it to the base line is unparalleled.

This is clearly inaccurrate. Pete was not the best!!!

 

[Azzurri]

Henman was certainly a choker anyway

I liked the guy and hoped he would win after Pete lost in 01/02...but never happened.

 

[Azzurri]

This is clearly inaccurrate. Pete was not the best!!!

the guy won 7 W titles..the ultimate S&V surface...Rafter never won. sorry, but he was the best volleyer of his generation.

 

[jimbo333]

I liked the guy and hoped he would win after Pete lost in 01/02...but never happened.

He was a very good player, but did choke on the big occasions. He was under huge pressure at Wimbledon, where he was loved

Murray is cleverly playing down his chances at Wimbledon, and is not nearly as popular as Henman was, possibly due to the fact he is Scottish!!!

I actually prefer Murray as a player

 

[jimbo333]

the guy won 7 W titles..the ultimate S&V surface...Rafter never won. sorry, but he was the best volleyer of his generation.

He was indeed the best volleyer of his generation

But we have both agreed that Edberg, McEnroe and Laver were slightly better volleyers overrall!!!

 

[Dark Victory]

Probably (one of ) the best half volleyers of all time

Pete had the best half-volley of all time. Period.

Edberg, Mac, Rafter, those guys moved well and had great hands, but they just didn't have the natural athleticism to execute the kind of deft pick-ups Pete did with his half-volley.

 

[zagor]

Lol, I can see why many of you guys in this thread think that the topic is a joke. But I assure you it is not.

Let me try to explain more clearly why I think that Sampras' volleys are overrated.

I think that when it came to easy, sitter volleys (basically anything that was set up by his big serve or a big forehand) was easy meat, period.

But unlike Mac or Edberg, if confronted by a sharp return, Pete's volleys were often not good enough to pick that up. Maybe he was just suprised someone manage to get his serve/approach shot back in the first place, but I don't think that Pete handled his low volleys as well as he should and could have.

That's why I think he is overrated.

So Sampras pick-up volleys weren't great? Now I've heard everything.Not saying whether Edberg is a better volleyer than Sampras(he probably is)but you do understand that Sampras had less time to react than either Edberg or Rafter because his serve was faster? That's why he was so often forced to play half-volleys which he was actually great at,I don't quite understand what are you saying.

 

[jimbo333]

Pete had the best half-volley of all time. Period.

Edberg, Mac, Rafter, those guys moved well and had great hands, but they just didn't have the natural athleticism to execute the kind of deft pick-ups Pete did with his half-volley.

Have you ever seen Edberg play mate?

If you have, you wouldn't be saying this!!!

 

[Azzurri]

He was indeed the best volleyer of his generation

But we have both agreed that Edberg, McEnroe and Laver were slightly better volleyers overrall!!!

agreed.....

 

[pmerk34]

Have you ever seen Edberg play mate?

If you have, you wouldn't be saying this!!!

I saw Edberg play dozens of times mate and Sampras as well and Sampras had a better half volley than Edberg

 

[Azzurri]

I saw Edberg play dozens of times mate and Sampras as well and Sampras had a better half volley than Edberg

I agree, Pete had the best half-volley I have ever seen. he hit so many of them and Edberg did not (I believe because of Pete's serve). Not that Edberg could not handle them, but for how difficult those shots are, I was and still am in awe of how easy he made it look (Pete).

 

[el sergento]

I agree, Pete had the best half-volley I have ever seen. he hit so many of them and Edberg did not (I believe because of Pete's serve). Not that Edberg could not handle them, but for how difficult those shots are, I was and still am in awe of how easy he made it look (Pete).

Agreed 100%. The shots he was able to pick up weren't just difficult, they were, and sill are, downright impossible to play for 80% of the tour.

Sadly I can't find any video. Someone should make a compilation of some spectacular Sampras half volleys

 

[Azzurri]

Agreed 100%. The shots he was able to pick up weren't just difficult, they were, and sill are, downright impossible to play for 80% of the tour.

Sadly I can't find any video. Someone should make a compilation of some spectacular Sampras half volleys

really? Youtube has tons of clips, but you can get full videos of his matches. They run around $7 for a DVD and you can get some terrific matches (just google tennis matches on dvd). He used to half-volley quite a bit at Wimbldeon.

 

[kiki]

He was a solid volleyer, but not an inspired one.He is clearly below Laver,Roche,Mac,Cash,Rafter,Edberg and on equal terms with the other 3 great volleyers who were Becker,Stich and Panatta.

But he won most of his volleys, which is the true important thing at the net game, cause of his great serve and great forehand approach shots.If he is not a top 5 volley alone considered, he certainly is a top 5 serve and volley player ( equal to Mac,Edberg,Becker and Stich and better than Rafter or Cash IMO).

 

[Datacipher]

He was a solid volleyer, but not an inspired one.He is clearly below Laver,Roche,Mac,Cash,Rafter,Edberg and on equal terms with the other 3 great volleyers who were Becker,Stich and Panatta.

But he won most of his volleys, which is the true important thing at the net game, cause of his great serve and great forehand approach shots.If he is not a top 5 volley alone considered, he certainly is a top 5 serve and volley player ( equal to Mac,Edberg,Becker and Stich and better than Rafter or Cash IMO).

O...K....well thank you for your opinion Michael.

 

[kiki]

O...K....well thank you for your opinion Michael.

You welcome, Pat

 

[Ludwig von Mises]

He was a solid volleyer, but not an inspired one.He is clearly below Laver,Roche,Mac,Cash,Rafter,Edberg and on equal terms with the other 3 great volleyers who were Becker,Stich and Panatta.

But he won most of his volleys, which is the true important thing at the net game, cause of his great serve and great forehand approach shots.If he is not a top 5 volley alone considered, he certainly is a top 5 serve and volley player ( equal to Mac,Edberg,Becker and Stich and better than Rafter or Cash IMO).

I think he is a great volleyer, and probably the most explosive, athletic player ever to play- his level of athleticism IMO makes him a better volleyer than anyone I have seen except for Mac, Edberg, and Rafter- and I would say equal to Mac, Edberg, Rafter even in a pure volley perspective. He is better than Cash, Becker, Stich, Pannatta. As for half-volleys yes- he is the best I have ever seen. I also think that his overheads are the best I have seen. Although, the Agassi overhead from the baseline is awesome. I have not seen Laver and Roche play when they were in their prime.

 

[kiki]

I think he is a great volleyer, and probably the most explosive, athletic player ever to play- his level of athleticism IMO makes him a better volleyer than anyone I have seen except for Mac, Edberg, and Rafter- and I would say equal to Mac, Edberg, Rafter even in a pure volley perspective. He is better than Cash, Becker, Stich, Pannatta. As for half-volleys yes- he is the best I have ever seen. I also think that his overheads are the best I have seen. Although, the Agassi overhead from the baseline is awesome. I have not seen Laver and Roche play when they were in their prime.

I don´t think his ability on the single stroke of volley
is as good as Mac,Edberg,Cash,Rafter,Laver or Roche.Those guys could " invent" volleys from nowhere, he´s more like Becker,Newcombe - or Stich-, a solid, steady volleyer whose approach or serve made for 80% of their volleying.But he could not improvise as well at the net.however, he may have won as many points at the net as those above mentioned and that is, at the very end, what counts.

 

[pmerk34]

He was a solid volleyer, but not an inspired one.He is clearly below Laver,Roche,Mac,Cash,Rafter,Edberg and on equal terms with the other 3 great volleyers who were Becker,Stich and Panatta.

But he won most of his volleys, which is the true important thing at the net game, cause of his great serve and great forehand approach shots.If he is not a top 5 volley alone considered, he certainly is a top 5 serve and volley player ( equal to Mac,Edberg,Becker and Stich and better than Rafter or Cash IMO).

Edberg is the best low ( not half) forehand volleyer I've seen. That is a very difficult shot to execute when returning a ball hit with pace.

The frames put out today for the most part are not great frames for net play it seems as the pro game has moved to hyper aggressive spin and pace. I used to think Lendl hit hard, Jurgin Meltzer hits consistently harder than he did.

I was hitting once with a pure drive and having all kinds of fun trying to get more spin and pace but at the net it was difficult to really stick a volley. I then took a friends leaded up pro staff 6.1 95 and just stuck it out in front of me at net and stuck some volleys using the exact same technique that worked so poorly with the pure drive.

 

[kiki]

Edberg is the best low ( not half) forehand volleyer I've seen. That is a very difficult shot to execute when returning a ball hit with pace.

The frames put out today for the most part are not great frames for net play it seems as the pro game has moved to hyper aggressive spin and pace. I used to think Lendl hit hard, Jurgin Meltzer hits consistently harder than he did.

I was hitting once with a pure drive and having all kinds of fun trying to get more spin and pace but at the net it was difficult to really stick a volley. I then took a friends leaded up pro staff 6.1 95 and just stuck it out in front of me at net and stuck some volleys using the exact same technique that worked so poorly with the pure drive.

Edberg ,yeah, had a great low volley, but I think Pat Cash had the most spectacular one, he hit it almost from the shoe level.But Stefan, who was taller than Cash, had a terrific one, I agree.

Henri Cochet is considered the inventor of the half volley, he was like a half volley human machine from the very few footage I´ve seen and repports from the french Tv ( he´s a national hero up there).

One of the greatest pleasure of winning avolley out of a heavy top spun shot is cutting off its speed and using it for added speed when placing it on the line.I remember how well did that John Mc Enroe in his matches vs Mats Wilander or Guillermo Vilas ( on hard or indoors).

 

[obsessedtennisfandisorder]

Pete had the best first volley in tennis. Which is exactly why he didn't have to play that many shots at net or why it seems that he was only effective on those sitters.

Rafter on the other hand was safer with that first volley, going for placement instead of a winner, which meant that he then had to make other volleys to win the point, usually resulting in some great athleticism. It was more impressive to watch, but that didn't mean his net game was better than Pete's, quite the contrary.

Pete also has the best half volley of all time. ABSOLUTE MAGIC, the amount of power he could get off a tough half volley and push it to the base line is unparalleled.

good effort but it's a bit more comblex than that.

rafter and edberg got "into" the net quicker..many of their serves were"kickers" as obbosed to "killers"( attemted aces ornear).

thats why they had low volleys as obbosed samras had half-volleys

the thing is..where I disagree is that edberg and rafter had more angle to work with than bete..and if they got a first volley they could but it away for winner...but they had to do this alot...they got less "free boints" than bete.
bete got many..and Imean very many ue returns or easier(i refuse to say sitter,becasue todays blayers would struggle to consistentlybut away sitters) volleys.

 

[obsessedtennisfandisorder]

Inaddition..my exblanation above kind of helbs exblain why rafter and edberg had good records on clay for sv blayers..

these twovids show how quick rafter gets into the net

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9QghtvCGIQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN6iDbtJxs8&NR=1

sorry bout the b/p roblem