Serve/Volley Tactics: HELP!

[schwuller]

i'm a solid 4.0 player who is basically...a counterpuncher but not a pusher. counterpuncher strongly leaning toward aggressive baseliner.

during a match today i hurt my wrist a bit (still recovering from my fools foray in to the land of Full Poly String Job!), but wanted to finish the match. Hate to make excuses. but i needed to make the points shorter. i decided to serve/volley for the first time. scary, but hey, if i lost i might still learn something new.

i don't understand the serve/volley game plan. again and again i tried the old wide serve, volley into the open court. that worked well but if he got that volley back...i was not sure where to hit the SECOND volley. in other words, where do you hit a volley if the court is not open and he is not moving so that i can hit behind him?

i also hit alot of hard boldy serves (weak response, put the high volley away normally to his backhand side, where this guy's reach was noticeably shorter than on the other side)...but with those, there isn't much court to hit into since he's not wide, and so again i'm not sure where the 1-2 volley combo should have been.

so, volley mavens, what exactly are the plays that i want to have in mind when i'm about to toss that ball for a serve volley point?

1. wide serve, volley away into the open court for a winner

2. body serve, close tight and volley away for a winner

how far in front should the toss be so i can get to net FASTER?
how big is the stride on the way in (how many steps get you from the serve to the first volley?)
how close to the net should i be shooting for? (right now i can make it to about halfway inside the serve box)
do i want a spinny, high-bouncing serve out wide, or a flatter bomb out wide?

 

[snvplayer]

Before you start the point, you want to draw out a plan on how you want to serve-volley.

This plan should be based on your returner's strength and weakness and their return tendency.

As you said, wide serve can be very effective since you are opening up the court, but you also need to be aware that you are giving more angle to work with for your opponent. If he has a really good angle cross court returns, wide serve won't work very well.

Down the middle serve is also effective b/c the return is likely to be up the middle.

Your first one or two step should be very explosive, then you would be taking subsequent smaller steps to be balanced and SPLIT STEP as your opponent makes contact.

Whether you should be hitting flat bombers or spin serve depends on its effectivness. I generally prefer spin serves vs flat serves. I only like to use flat serves occassionally to get weak reply. If you keep using flat serves, good returners can use the pace against you.

Toss should be more out in front, but you shouldn't really sacrifice your serve percentage for that.

 

[BounceHitBounceHit]

i'm a solid 4.0 player who is basically...a counterpuncher but not a pusher. counterpuncher strongly leaning toward aggressive baseliner.

during a match today i hurt my wrist a bit (still recovering from my fools foray in to the land of Full Poly String Job!), but wanted to finish the match. Hate to make excuses. but i needed to make the points shorter. i decided to serve/volley for the first time. scary, but hey, if i lost i might still learn something new.

i don't understand the serve/volley game plan. again and again i tried the old wide serve, volley into the open court. that worked well but if he got that volley back...i was not sure where to hit the SECOND volley. in other words, where do you hit a volley if the court is not open and he is not moving so that i can hit behind him?

i also hit alot of hard boldy serves (weak response, put the high volley away normally to his backhand side, where this guy's reach was noticeably shorter than on the other side)...but with those, there isn't much court to hit into since he's not wide, and so again i'm not sure where the 1-2 volley combo should have been.

so, volley mavens, what exactly are the plays that i want to have in mind when i'm about to toss that ball for a serve volley point?

1. wide serve, volley away into the open court for a winner

2. body serve, close tight and volley away for a winner

how far in front should the toss be so i can get to net FASTER?
how big is the stride on the way in (how many steps get you from the serve to the first volley?)
how close to the net should i be shooting for? (right now i can make it to about halfway inside the serve box)
do i want a spinny, high-bouncing serve out wide, or a flatter bomb out wide?

Concentrate on making a high % of first serves. Mix up the spin, placement, and pace, but keep in mind that you want to go to our opponents weakness on the big points. Resist the urge to 'over-close' on the net-it's much easier to move forward aggressively than to back-pedal! Split just as the ball bounces in front of your opponent and try to 'read' his racquet face for a clue as to where the pass will go. If the return is above the net, volley aggressively to the open court and move a step or two closer in the bisector. If the return is below the net, hit the volley so that the ball stays directly in front of you and cover the line. Your goal should be to NEVER allow yourself to be passed down the line. That way you force your opponent to hit the tougher pass. If the ball comes back, follow the same rules (below the net/above the net). Remember depth and placement of the volley trump power just about every time. CC

 

[tennisfreak15347]

Most importantly, draw out your plan in your mind before you serve, so you get an idea on what you're trying to do. Also, split step to get ready, as said before. What I do is keep your position at the service line, and volley to the open court ( or in your case, since there is no opening, to his backhand, to try to open up the court)

 

[Mies]

Well, I take lessons from a guy who was a pro and ranked in the 300-400 on the ATP rankings in the late 80's. He is a s&v'er. Here are a few of the remarks he made on S&V.

First of all, he keeps stressing that a volley does not have to be a winner!

Keep the ball low and angle it away from your opponent (if you've just hit a serve down the T, angle the volley towards his weaker shot). Doing that you will give him/her a difficult shot since he/she has to hit a passing shot from below the net cord while on the run. If he gets to to it and passes you, kudos to him, but chances are he fails more often than not. If he gets to it and you can volley it, keep it low and away from him once more. Repeat untill you get a put away shot or he screws up.

If you do this most of the time, then the times where you play it back into the same, not open corner will come as a surprise and his failure rate will be high there as well.

My personal experience is: this works! It is crucial that you do not volley "sitters" though. Keep em low and then the depth of the ball is less important as long as it's moving away from him.

As far as your serve goes, my strategy usually is figuring out which serve gives my opponent most trouble and hit that most of the time, but not continuously. I try to keep varying it so he can't zone in on the return. Not giving your opponent any rhythm on the return is key to get a playable first volley.

(In the Netherlands we have a different rating systems than in the US, but according to the ITF conversion tables I am a 4.0).

 

[Nellie]

Per comments above, do not think of volleys for winners - instead the volleys are to force your opponent into making hard shots and errors (and even better if your opponent can't get to it).

As the volleyer, your job is to reduce the court size. You do this by hitting down the line and deep when you are defensive (hitting a low volley) and/or your opponent is in a good position (centered and close to the baseline). You only go wide angle when your opponent is in a defensive position and cannot get to that volley (usually, you are hitting a high volley and your opponent is to the side of the court). If you hit short and wide and the opponent gets to the ball, you are generally done.

From a strategy standpoint, this means for low returned balls, you aim the volley defensively (down the line) and shade to that side of the court. On high volleys, you hit for a winner, but prepare for the return by covering the side where you hit the ball.

Regarding your particular strategy, if you serve wide, you will tend to cover slightly down the line (1-2 foot to the side of the center line). If the return is low, you will essentially hit another down the line approach shot. If the volley is high, you will need to see where the opponent is and hit aggressively.

You mentioned serving mostly wide, but I prefer to serve down the middle to keep down the return angles. I go wide sometimes to keep the returner honest and to go for aces (flatter serve). There are no hard and fast rule, and this really depends on your skills/ preferences. Wide is fine, but you will need to move a coouple steps further to cover that line.

I often hit more a of second serve (spin and placement) over a fast serve because I want an extra half second to get into the court.

In my experience, the hardest part of S&V is to not rush too much. Be relax and stop completely with a jump step before the opponent hits
ball. From the stop, step through the volley. If you run through the volley, you will hit into the net over and over. I intentionally stop at the service line on the first volley and continue to move in on the subsequent shot(s). I tend to take three steps between the serve and the service line and jump step to wait for the return. I am often taking a low/ half volley, or moving in fast from the service line to hit the overhead/high volley.

So, per your other questions above, whether you serve wide or into the body, the placement of your volley depends on the height/position of the return.

 

[schwuller]

first, my followup questions:

1. what's the correct way to do a spit step? as i understand, it allows me to pause forward movement (as my serve bounces) at the moment i'll need to move either left or right as my opponent hits his return. so i hop, then either left or right as needed, hit the first volley, then step forward WHILE moving laterally in whatever direction i just hit that first volley (bisecting his possible reply) and then volley that (into the open court or behind him or wherever on what i noticed about his strokes/movement/position/what volley i tend to hit best/etc).

2. what does a S/V player do on the return games? approach up the line always right, never cross court?

the explanations above are exactly the information i was looking for. i hope this conversation incites others to try S/V.

when we watch tennis on tv now, we just are not seeing alot of S/V. so, it's not something we are thinking alot about these days. however, most of us are not playing on the pro tour. the players we are facing at the 3.5 to 4.5 level can really be hurt badly by S/V. i was surprised how effective this was for me, even though i am not a good volley player! but what i do have (from the ground) are natural slices (not chops!) on the forehand and backhand side, so my volleys are naturally low-bouncing. even without alot of s/v strategy, these gave my opponent a fit! soon he was overhitting in attempts to pass me, because he didn't want to see any more volleys bouncing less than 12"! also, most 4.0 guys don't have a reliable lob or short angled passing shot anyhow. why should they - no one S/V's at this level!

also i've found that there is something very very intimidating about S/V. rushing toward your opponent as he's about to hit a return is so in-your-face! you're daring him to come up with something that might be a little beyond what he has worked on. at the 4.0 level, the service returns are often pretty safe and high. i BET in the 1980's a typical 4.5 player's service return was a bit more deliberate directionally than a 4.5 player of today. is this somewhat true?

i've now done S/V twice, and i won both matches FASTER against this guy than i ever have before. i didn't have to stand back there and GRIND through 8 or 15 ball rallies! the rallies were often 2 balls, because he was going for too much on the return!

suggestion for others moving into S/V: i know i'm a bit of a broken record about the benefits of hitting against a wall or backboard, but i really believe this will help. hit a serve against the wall, very hard and straight ahead and higher than a normal serve (about 6 feet up the wall i guess) and rush in, the ball coming back looks ALOT like a typical serve return in trajectory and pace. volley it straight ahead and about 10 inches above net height, keep closing, volley the next one angles away. go back and tee up another one. for those of us who did not grow up volleying, this HELPS. do that for an hour and you'll be spent! hit some serves off to the side a little, so the first volley will have you stretched out and reaching. also hit some serves, rush in and make the first volley an inside-out dropper off the forehand and backhand. then do some crosscourt droppers. for a finish, adjust the serve lower on the wall so the ball coming back will be at your ankles, and your first volley is a half volley (some directed forward, some inside out, some crosscourt)

i'm not an instructor, and i'm hesitant to give practice advice, but i really believe that doing this has made me a person who CAN volley, where i had been a person who COULDN'T volley very well.

 

[Nellie]

Well, the split step is not really that complicated, except that the timing needs to work. You should be relaxed and neutral prior to the opponent's, swing, so that you can react quickly. This means that you will need to jump step about the time that your ball bounces. It is better to be a little early on the jump step than late. The purpose of the jump step is to get balanced so you can move in any direction for the next shot. I am sure you noticed that if you are even slightly leaning/weighted in one direction, it is really difficult to turn around quickly. The jump step is often not even a jump, but instead, a slight balancing with your knees bent and shoulder width apart, you back straight, and hands/racquet ready for the next shot. From there, you will move to step into the next shot and then jump step again. After your shot and while your are waiting in your jump step, you can adjust with small motions (quick steps) to move into a better position, but it is often better to be ready and out of slightly position, than sprinting back into position.

You do close into the net with each volley do to the forward motion of the volley, but I don't really think about moving forward to attack the net - more of a jump step, volley toward the net, and another jump step (closer to the net) sequence.


This jump step/volley sequence is pretty easy to practice against a wall with a foam/nerf ball.

On the returns, I am conservative on the first serve (return deep and to the middle to restart the point, looking for short balls to approach on) but often chip (slice return around the service line) down the line and charge, especially from the backhand side. I would rather whack the ball on the forehand side and approach.

I think that you are right that the S&V often has an advantage at recreational levels because people miss more passing shots than they make (which is why you often do not need go for winning volleys).

 

[schwuller]

foam nerf ball? what is this used for? i've never used anything like that before. can you elaborate on how to use this?

now i understand this split step, volley forward sequence being repeated, rather than consciously closing/approaching forward. seems more fluid. my body momentum is always taking me a step forward on each volley.

so from the ad court, a good play is to slice a bh return down the line and short? i've never tried this but it makes sense. how much can the server possibly come up with if i return to that position. that's very very smart. i'm going to use that tonight.

 

[Nellie]

I like to generally approach down the line - either with a slice or an aggressive, deep shot. Slice will give you more time to set up. At 4.0, often you will want to approach to the weaker side (e.g. backhand to force the opponent to make a tough shot with the weak side)

A foam ball is like this (and can often be found in your local big box sports store):

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACGAMMA-GFOAM.html

I also sometimes use a toy foam ball from my kids. To me, the advantage of the foam ball is that you can practice by yourself against a wall without developing bad habits (and the balls last forever!) I hit the foam ball to the wall and close in, trying to step into each volley into I am right next to the wall, with a split after each volley.

 

[schwuller]

nellie: thanks alot. i appreciate this information. since i joined this forum i've totally remade my forehand, and now i'm adding serve/volley. it's great.

i'm going to order some of these foam balls right now. i work out with a backboard/wall almost every day, and i'm GUESSING these balls will slow things down so i can practice certain things a bit better.

i have never noticed these balls until you pointed them out.

thanks again.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

so, volley mavens, what exactly are the plays that i want to have in mind when i'm about to toss that ball for a serve volley point?

1. wide serve, volley away into the open court for a winner

2. body serve, close tight and volley away for a winner

I have issues with your play on both one and two. In both of them you are thinking that you serve, volley and win the point.

What happens if your serve doesnt phase the returner? Now what? He gets it back, puts you off balance, your technique goes to "mud", and you dont really stick your volley.

Or what happens if you hit a good serve, he returns it well, you hit the open court but he gets to it? Where are you?

how far in front should the toss be so i can get to net FASTER?
how big is the stride on the way in (how many steps get you from the serve to the first volley?)

As far as you possibly can. You should work to get the serve toss out further and further without ruining your serve.

how close to the net should i be shooting for? (right now i can make it to about halfway inside the serve box)

Your goal should be to get inside the service box. If you are going to go out wide, you need to understand that your angled serve opens angle for your opponent as well. Learn his tendencies, and give him the tough shot. If he makes it - clap for him.

do i want a spinny, high-bouncing serve out wide, or a flatter bomb out wide?

It depends, there are no magic formulas. Every returner will have their own strengths and weaknesses. Your serve will sometimes match up well and not match up well.

Your serve is critical though for the S&V. It sets up everything. This means you need to have a big serve, be able to place it on a dime, and mix spin and pace at will.

In other words, you need to practice your serve.

 

[dropaced333]

kay, i was tought at camp that a serve/return and volley basically worked like this
1)Serve (where doesn't matter so much really)
2)Run up to service line to prepare for next volley, split-step
3)Get up to net and either make your opponent run around the court with corner volleys or put away the easy angle volley (hit as close to the net and have the ball land several feet away as if a sharp angle)
Return and volley is almost the same except the serve is replaced by return!Hope i helped