Simona Halep can play again. When? And what effect?

Devil_dog

Hall of Fame
I'm neither arguing for or against Simona's ban but I'm glad to hear she can come back to play.

My question is when? Will Miami be too soon? Or will she wait to return on the clay?

Second question is: What will she be ranked?

Third question: What effect will she have now that she's been out of match play for nearly 2 years? Will she be able to regain her form and potentially rise back to the top 10?
 

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I doubt she'd have a protected ranking, but I assume tournaments will provide her with wildcards, at least some of them. She's a former Slam champ and has been "cleared" and has a story of redemption that TV commentators would probably love to flog.

That decision sounds so equivocal - which, to be fair, is often the case when they're finding a player "guilty" as well. It's all probabilities. Essentially, "we really think you maybe did this, but there could be a sort-of possibility that what you said happened (tainted supplement) might be true. The whole thing reads like they're just sick of dealing with it.
 

bitcoinoperated

Professional
I doubt she'd have a protected ranking, but I assume tournaments will provide her with wildcards, at least some of them. She's a former Slam champ and has been "cleared" and has a story of redemption that TV commentators would probably love to flog.
Yes, 'pova got a fair few and was put on decent courts.
 

puppybutts

Hall of Fame
Yes, 'pova got a fair few and was put on decent courts.
yep...most memorably, taking out Halep herself when she was #1 on Arthur Ashe I believe, I think in her first match back?

not that halep ever performs well at USO, but still, it was a headliner for sure
 
I doubt she'd have a protected ranking, but I assume tournaments will provide her with wildcards, at least some of them. She's a former Slam champ and has been "cleared" and has a story of redemption that TV commentators would probably love to flog.

That decision sounds so equivocal - which, to be fair, is often the case when they're finding a player "guilty" as well. It's all probabilities. Essentially, "we really think you maybe did this, but there could be a sort-of possibility that what you said happened (tainted supplement) might be true. The whole thing reads like they're just sick of dealing with it.
I totally agree. She has literally been one of my favorite players her whole career but I actually think it was intentional doping and she just didn't think she would get caught (at worst) or willful ignorance (at best). The statements surrounding the whole aftermath sound "off". I do think they are tired of dealing with it. And that they've taken so much time off her peak career years that maybe she will be unlikely to reach top levels again so they think it's not much of a problem.

I think her movement is her best weapon so it was a silly thing to take if she indeed take something because she is super fit naturally with endurance. And Idk if not being on anything presuming she had assistance prior from PEDs i don't think it will impact her much bc of her natural fitness level. I also think she was probably on them a short amount of time based on what I've read (which is also so stupid of her if true). So i think what we've always seen from her is her base level of endurance. I do think not playing for such a long time & now being older will be what she really has to contend with. Also the serve was never gonna be helped by the PEDs so that was stupid! (half kidding--but yeah that was her weakest spot soooooo and to be clear, i don't want anyone to take PEDs).

I doubt I will remain a fan. I held off on making judgement for a really long time but the more i've read I find it hard to believe she wasn't doping, in which case I've lost respect. I'll see what sort of statements she makes & how she plays, and who she surrounds herself with to see what I'm going to do. What about you guys?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Halep was, indeed, doping but the strict test for intentionality meant a two-year maximum ban, but they found mitigating circumstances to whittle it down to nine months.

She has been out for longer than that so I think the tennis community can live with her returning.
 

30-0

New User
May I ask on what "expert" opinion are you basing your conclusion that she was doping? I said it on another thread and I am saying it again - Simona had had a nose job in September, before her doping accusation came out in October. Her anesthesiologist said to the press that because of that nose job, Simona had to take a "cocktail" of drugs over several weeks (hence her announcement that she would not play at all for the rest of the season). And that in combination with roxadustat, there was a high probability those drugs would have been very dangerous, even lethal for Simona, causing heavy bleeding. The operation went on without the slightest problem. Is that not evidence enough that she had not taken roxadustat over a long period of time?

Then what about the fact that the blood samples taken in the hospital before and during her nose job were not accepted as evidence by ITIA's "independent" sports tribunal? They were probably not consistent with the accusation, that's why.

And what's this thing that judges are "tired"? They could be tired and still uphold the ban if the proof had been solid. meaning that it wasn't. They suspended Valieva, the Russian skater. for 4 years, havent they? (Which is not correct in my opinion as she was 15 at the time, but that is another matter).

I have said it before, if I were Simona, I would sue ITIA and their "tribunal" the pants off in a civil lawsuit for loss of revenue, reputational damage and I guess there are other grounds. Deservedly so.

I am just sick and tired of all the "expert" opinions that of course she doped intentionally. If she had had, there wouldn't have been such a huge difference between the 2 sentences - 4 years versus 9 months. It means that she had solid proof for what she said.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
They operate with the idea of strict liability, which means you're guilty if the drug is in you however it got there.

This means that you are doping even inadvertently, although it's considered more heinous if intended.

If you want to take a drug otherwise prohibited then you have to get a Therapeutic Use Exemption.

May I ask on what "expert" opinion are you basing your conclusion that she was doping? I said it on another thread and I am saying it again - Simona had had a nose job in September, before her doping accusation came out in October. Her anesthesiologist said to the press that because of that nose job, Simona had to take a "cocktail" of drugs over several weeks (hence her announcement that she would not play at all for the rest of the season). And that in combination with roxadustat, there was a high probability those drugs would have been very dangerous, even lethal for Simona, causing heavy bleeding. The operation went on without the slightest problem. Is that not evidence enough that she had not taken roxadustat over a long period of time?

Then what about the fact that the blood samples taken in the hospital before and during her nose job were not accepted as evidence by ITIA's "independent" sports tribunal? They were probably not consistent with the accusation, that's why.

And what's this thing that judges are "tired"? They could be tired and still uphold the ban if the proof had been solid. meaning that it wasn't. They suspended Valieva, the Russian skater. for 4 years, havent they? (Which is not correct in my opinion as she was 15 at the time, but that is another matter).

I have said it before, if I were Simona, I would sue ITIA and their "tribunal" the pants off in a civil lawsuit for loss of revenue, reputational damage and I guess there are other grounds. Deservedly so.

I am just sick and tired of all the "expert" opinions that of course she doped intentionally. If she had had, there wouldn't have been such a huge difference between the 2 sentences - 4 years versus 9 months. It means that she had solid proof for what she said.
 

30-0

New User
They operate with the idea of strict liability, which means you're guilty if the drug is in you however it got there.

This means that you are doping even inadvertently, although it's considered more heinous if intended.

If you want to take a drug otherwise prohibited then you have to get a Therapeutic Use Exemption.
I was talking about doping on purpose over many months, maybe I didn't make that clear. We all know she was doped on one occasion, since they found the drug in her blood.
 

30-0

New User
And from 4 years to 9 months is a hell of a reduction, they must have had rock-solid proof to „whittle it down ” like that. And I thought the ban for intentional doping was 4 years? 2 years if it is unintentional?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I haven't read the judgments. Doping once or doping many times is not a question of liability. It's just a question of the severity of punishment.

I was talking about doping on purpose over many months, maybe I didn't make that clear. We all know she was doped on one occasion, since they found the drug in her blood.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I did talk about this elsewhere. It's a question of what test you adopt for intentionality. CAS has a very restrictive interpretation. If you appeal you will win.

And from 4 years to 9 months is a hell of a reduction, they must have had rock-solid proof to „whittle it down ” like that. And I thought the ban for intentional doping was 4 years? 2 years if it is unintentional?
 

30-0

New User
I did talk about this elsewhere. It's a question of what test you adopt for intentionality. CAS has a very restrictive interpretation. If you appeal you will win.
Not in Valieva's case - the Russian figure skater. She got 4 years before CAS, although she was 15 at the time and there was a high probability that somebody else was accountable. Nor in Andreea Raducan's case. Remember her? All-around artistic gymnastics Olympic champion in Sidney back in 2000. The team doctor gave her a Nurofen against the flu and she was stripped off her Olymoic medal. Years later, when the pseudo-ephedrine (contained in Nurofen) was removed from WADA's list of banned substances, as it was proved that not only does it not help, but hinders physical performance, she lodged an appel with CAS in an attempt to get her medal back. She was met with rejection.

So don't tell me that if you appeal you will win, because that's not true.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
It seems true enough in tennis and these examples are from the Olympics.

Not in Valieva's case - the Russian figure skater. She got 4 years before CAS, although she was 15 at the time and there was a high probability that somebody else was accountable. Nor in Andreea Raducan's case. Remember her? All-around artistic gymnastics Olympic champion in Sidney back in 2000. The team doctor gave her a Nurofen against the flu and she was stripped off her Olymoic medal. Years later, when the pseudo-ephedrine (contained in Nurofen) was removed from WADA's list of banned substances, as it was proved that not only does it not help, but hinders physical performance, she lodged an appel with CAS in an attempt to get her medal back. She was met with rejection.

So don't tell me that if you appeal you will win, because that's not true.
 

30-0

New User
Well, CAS rules for all sports, not tennis only. Aren't there any cases where the ban was upheld?
 

Wander

Hall of Fame
yep...most memorably, taking out Halep herself when she was #1 on Arthur Ashe I believe, I think in her first match back?

not that halep ever performs well at USO, but still, it was a headliner for sure
That 2017 US Open was a high-point of Sharapova's comeback, but it was not her first match back. She returned to the tour in April in Stuttgart and had played a number of tournaments getting her ranking back to just shy of the top 100 before the US Open that year.

She was injured for much of the summer though.
 

Devil_dog

Hall of Fame
Simona just confirmed about 30 minutes ago on Instagram that she will accept the wildcard to the Miami Open.
 

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Lol what?
She was doping using a recently developed anti-anaemia drug used exclusively in renal failure patients.
There is no way this got in to a supplement by accident.

Oh, nevermind how its impossible for PEDs to just waltz its way into her supplements. She's just as innocent as the day is long...at least to those who have some need to help sell her lies.
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
I've only followed a couple of tennis examples, and in those inadvertent ingestion was found rather than intentional by CAS.

CAS seems to operate with a stricter test of intention.

Olympic sports might involve different drugs and more complex pressures given other rival countries may get the medal.

Well, CAS rules for all sports, not tennis only. Aren't there any cases where the ban was upheld?
 
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