Forehand (semi-western, windshield wiper motion, layed back wrist leading with elbow) - I normally set-up with open stance and let the ball (judgement) come to me (yep, I know it's lazy), stepping in and hit the ball with racquet head just slightly out in front or almost at my side. I am not getting much topspin or at least not what I would like. Would hitting further out in front give me more topspin? Would that allow me to go at more of an angle of low-to-high and put more topspin on the ball? I know it will take time away from my opponent setting up. I have heard something to the effect of saying a "bounce-hit" technique. I would love to hit that ball all out and watch it nose dive into the court instead of sailing out of bounds with little topspin. Thanks in advance!
Technique Help Needed - Hit forehand out futher in front???
- Thread starter 10usDad
- Start date
Essential Tennis
Rookie
No. Hitting farther in front would result in no extra spin. You need to start developing a lower drop, and a steeper upward path towards contact with the ball.
I could hit a looping topspin forehand with a continental grip, and making contact behind my body. Certainly it wouldn't be as much rotation as I can create with a semi western and making contact even with or in front of my body, but the point is the path of the racket and the angle of the racket face are what is responsible for any rotation or lack of rotation on your resulting shot. Period.
Will certain grips and contact points make more sense to create heavy spin? Certainly. But it sounds like you have the basics down just fine, making contact out in front farther without actually changing the path of the racket will do nothing for you. There is no magic fix or silver bullet, your racket head has to start dropping lower below the level of the ball, and swinging upwards at a sharper vertical angle towards contact.
As long as your resulting shot travels horizontal, rest assured the path of your racket is horizontal as well as you make contact. The ball doesn't lie.
I would suggest practicing several swings by starting with your arm, shoulder, and hand fully relaxed and dropped down by your side. Then drop a ball with your other hand in front of you, and from your relaxed drop of the racket just swing straight upwards at the ball. Actually watch the ball and see if its rotating, and if so in which direction. If the ball floats up in the air with no rotation 10 feet over the net, your racket face is open. Close it up. If you make a lot of rotation, but doesn't make it over the net, your face turned down towards the ground, get it perpendicular. Your goal is to hit 6-8 feet over the top of the net with the ball rotating quickly, and dropping back into the court. Keep on playing with it until you can do that 10 times in a row within those parameters. That is the path and racket face you need to duplicate on your full forehand swing.
Hopefully something up there helps.....take care
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In D Zone
Hall of Fame
I was having the same issue and its not your strokes but more on your stance (footwork). Open stance is great but it lacks that extra movement to give you that full hip rotation that you need to give you that added power to your forehand.
I suggest you try the 'Semi Open' stance aka 'sit and lift 'forehand - if you like Blakes and Federer's forehand this is it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2ho3FRWm9Pw
hope this helps!
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You can't make this assumption without seeing his strokes. Many players who struggle to generate spin are the same players who don't make contact far enough in front. You have to analyze many other components of technique in order to make a statement about whether or not they should alter their contact point. For example, two players could have solid technique, but one of the players could have a contact point drastically closer to their body in comparison to the other player. However, this isn't the only variable. The most likely explanation for this would be drastic difference in the angle of the double bend. The player with the closer contact point will have a smaller double bend angle whereas the player with the larger angle will have a farther contact point. This can be seen when comparing Nadal, Federer, and Verdasco's contact points with players such as Roddick, Ferrer, and Robredo. For each double bend angle there is a small range of technically sound contact points. When pressed for time; however, the contact point must be changed. A closer contact point gives you more time. You have a few options, but for the purpose of this conversation we will only deal with two of them. Keeping your original forehand grip or switching to continental. The natural contact point for a continental grip is much closer and further to your side, precisely why it is the natural grip for retrieving. Pressed for time, if you choose to hit with your normal forehand grip, you will have to hit closer to your body. The problem with this is that you will keep your normal double bend angle, and your technique will become unsound. In this situation most players will slow their swing-speed because if they don't the ball will sail out with barely any spin. The point is that many different contact points can pass for solid technique, but you need the rest of the components in the right place to back this up. Many players don't, and have a contact point that doesn't match their double bend angle. This is not to say having a contact point farther than optimal is any better, but I rarely see a player who has a contact point farther than optimal. You cannot tell someone that their contact point (closer to your body or farther away) doesn't make a difference. It makes a huge difference for many players. As I said earlier, many of the players who struggle to generate spin have a contact point to close to their body for their respective double bend angle.
This example doesn't help prove your point in our situation. The context is wrong, because he hits with a semi-western grip. The natural contact point of a continental forehand is much farther back than that of a semi-western forehand. The only way to hit significant topspin with a continental grip would be to hit behind yourself, or perhaps directly to your side. However, with a semi-western grip, the contact point is farther in front than most people realize. Most players don't pick up a racquet and naturally pick semi-western and make contact far enough in front. It must be taught in most cases.
I find that not hitting far enough in front is a very common problem. And a very common problem that prevents the develop of heavy topspin.
As long as your resulting shot travels horizontal, rest assured the path of your racket is horizontal as well as you make contact. The ball doesn't lie.
I would suggest practicing several swings by starting with your arm, shoulder, and hand fully relaxed and dropped down by your side. Then drop a ball with your other hand in front of you, and from your relaxed drop of the racket just swing straight upwards at the ball. Actually watch the ball and see if its rotating, and if so in which direction. If the ball floats up in the air with no rotation 10 feet over the net, your racket face is open. Close it up. If you make a lot of rotation, but doesn't make it over the net, your face turned down towards the ground, get it perpendicular. Your goal is to hit 6-8 feet over the top of the net with the ball rotating quickly, and dropping back into the court. Keep on playing with it until you can do that 10 times in a row within those parameters. That is the path and racket face you need to duplicate on your full forehand swing.
Hopefully something up there helps.....take care
I feel like this passage is misleading. Many players make the error of starting the swing way too far under the ball; and you don't want to reinforce that. Unless you're striving to play like Nadal or Andreev, you shouldn't drop the butt of the racquet much farther than 2-4 inches under the ball. You can get plenty of spin through incorporating inactive wrist involvement, sit and lift, and many other technical changes.
However, for some players, it's important to learn the steep topspin forehand simply to get a feel for how to achieve significant topspin. But, I would never recommend the forehand described for any real use.
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In D Zone said:
Great video.
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Essential Tennis
Rookie
holy crap, haha. Do you honestly expect a recreational player to understand what you just typed?
I stand by everything that I posted. It's ultimately the path of the racket and racket face that determines what kind and how much spin is produced. Could a different contact point help facilitate a better racket path? Sure, it definitely could if the current one is not fundamentally correct.
Is changing the contact point alone going to cause top spin? No of course not. I simply wanted him to be aware of what was most important to creating spin, and that is the path the racket travels across.
Having a correct contact point in relationship to the rest of the swing is very important. However in the end its the direction the racket is traveling and the angle of the face at contact that imparts spin on the ball, and there's no debating that.
Cheers
Essential Tennis
Rookie
Well obviously he doesn't have that problem, he has the opposite. So yes I do want to reinforce that.
Bungalo Bill
G.O.A.T.
No, more topspin comes from your low to high swing (the upward swing path) and also if you rotate the racquet face up the back of the ball. Obviously, the speed at which you do this is a major factor.
If it has little top and sailing out of bounds, chances are your hitting somewhat under the ball with a flatter swing path or it could be that your racquet face is opening slightly or a combination of all of it to some degree.
How fast you swing low to high contributes to more spin on the ball.
Try to think of it this way. When you spin a basketball on your finger, how do you impart more spin? By brushing it faster with your fingers. If you brushed into the ball, it might fall off your finger.
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Good video and thanks for the great advice. A couple of questions. I thought that one was suppose to transfer weight to the front foot as you lean into and just prior to hitting the ball?
This theory and video tape does not show much of a shoulder turn? Can you or others comment on this? So this indicates that hip rotation is really the key and not as much shoulder rotation but then again you said the semi-open stance. TKS
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In D Zone
Hall of Fame
Good video and thanks for the great advice. A couple of questions. I thought that one was suppose to transfer weight to the front foot as you lean into and just prior to hitting the ball?
10usDad
This video will definitely answer your question!
http://www.fuzzyyellowballs.com/index.php?id=410663&col=260821
On the side note: I play and use all three (open, close and Semi) stance as each of these stances are offers certain advantages on specific situations.
HAPPY TENNIS!
holy crap, haha. Do you honestly expect a recreational player to understand what you just typed?
I stand by everything that I posted. It's ultimately the path of the racket and racket face that determines what kind and how much spin is produced. Could a different contact point help facilitate a better racket path? Sure, it definitely could if the current one is not fundamentally correct.
Is changing the contact point alone going to cause top spin? No of course not. I simply wanted him to be aware of what was most important to creating spin, and that is the path the racket travels across.
Having a correct contact point in relationship to the rest of the swing is very important. However in the end its the direction the racket is traveling and the angle of the face at contact that imparts spin on the ball, and there's no debating that.
Cheers
When did I disagree with that?
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Many players hit way too late (contact point too close to their body or even on the side) and if they use the Semi-Western grip substantial topspin is impossible with this technical error. The rest was me going off on a tangent with details and explanations.
It's apparent that you don't have the best understand of the modern forehand, because the contact point is extremely important. If you make contact too late you're killing so much potential topspin (and his explanation of hitting even with his body or slightly in front means too late). The second you hit late, everything falls apart including one of the most important technical issues relating to the creation of heavy topspin, inactive wrist movement. Players who hit late are the same players whose wrist movement is non-existent or incorrect. Many other things fall apart as well, and the movement becomes physically disadvantageous but it's apparent you don't want a long-winded explanation.
Obviously hitting farther out in front won't do **** for the creation of topspin if the rest of your technique is abysmal. However, he asked if this change would add more topspin. His contact point is too late according to his post and hitting farther out in front could facilitate the creation of more topspin in the long run.
Hitting even with your body, or slightly in front with the Semi-Western is way too late. He must hit farther in front in order to continue his development as a player. I seriously cannot believe two posts are saying not to alter the contact point. It's obvious that hitting even with your body or ever so slightly in front is a technical error that must be corrected. Maybe it won't show immediate results in terms of the amount of topspin imparted, but heavy topspin is impossible without the correct contact point and everything that comes with this change.
To the OP: Correct the contact point first, post a video of your strokes, and then get advice on how to develop more topspin. You want to develop heavy topspin and this is impossible with your current contact point.
Also, you cannot make assumptions on the amount of topspin he currently has. He might have so little topspin that your advice makes total sense after he corrects his contact point. Or, he might already have a decent amount of topspin and the only advisable path to the creation of heavier topspin would be to correct the contact point, incorporate the sit and lift, loosen the wrist, etc. How do you know? You can't give advice blindly.
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Essential Tennis
Rookie
Well you took the time to tear down my whole first post, so just making sure we're on the same page there buddy.
"Having a correct contact point in relationship to the rest of the swing is very important."
Exactly, and that was really my point. All other things being equal, changing the contact point won't create more topspin if the path of his racket isn't facilitating enough in the first place.
Yes I agree completely. In the long run a heavy topspin ball definitely needs to be met well out in front.
I never said to not change the contact point. Simply that changing the contact point alone will not result in more spin.
And thats exactly why I posted about the racket path first, because imho he needs to understand that first and foremost.
Nothing that I've posted is blind advice. The topic is creating more spin, he doesn't have as much as he wants, so clearly the path isn't vertical enough. Those two statements are factual.
Eric, this is what I do for a living. I teach lessons to people with these exact same problems over 40 hours a week. It's taking me a good amount of self control to stay level headed while being told I'm wrong by a 17 year old, heh.
The main reason why I have is that nothing you've posted is incorrect, the contact point is extremely important to understand and to do correctly, you're giving great advice. The question is, which technique change is more fundamental to creating spin, and therefore needs to be understood and implimented first. That is the line of thinking I always try to follow. What is most "essential", and learn that first.
Looks like we're mostly on the same page at this point. I still believe he should worry about correcting his contact point as a prerequisite for further changes to his technique, but he has a lot of information in this thread to consider, and he can make the choice as to what to do first.
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fuzz nation
G.O.A.T.
Hey, is it just me, or does that video look like that dude is still putting a ton of torque on his left knee after the switch to the modern forehand? He lands on his left foot with his body still rotating, perhaps even more dramatically than with the traditional stroke, and his left knee looks pretty straight! Sure, he's loading up and pushing off well with that right leg, but I think his traditional stroke just needs a bent left knee.
Thoughts?...
Thoughts?...
Actually it wasn't modifying my swingpath that gave me the biggest improvement in spin. When I learned to relax my wrist and fingers and let my racquet head 'lag' behind my shot, it felt like the dwell time increased and my spin improved phenomenally. My topspin shots really pulled down and exploded off the bounce almost overnight. It took me a few months to revamp my timing and get a groove though.
