Tennis magazine Tournament of Champions - Women

[boredone3456]

My opinion- and I'll say if the order of surfaces was different my choices in some cases would be different and I really had a hard time with some of these matches. I also swayed in favor of upsets a couple of times because no matter how good someone is they can be toppled for one match.

1st Round:
(1) Court d. (32) Novotna 61 62
(16) Sanchez-Vicario d (17) Capriati 62 46 64
(9) Bueno d (24) Austin 46 75 62
(8 ) Henin d. (25) Pierce 61 63 (sorry Mary the draw and first set on clay kills your chances here)
(5) S. Williams d. (28 ) Richey 36 62 62 (Richey was VERY good on clay)
(12) Hingis d. (21) Mauresmo 75 75
(20) Haydon Jones d (13) Sharapova 64 46 63
(4) Navratilova d. (29) Turner Bowrey 64 63
(3) Evert d. (30) Sabatini 62 62
(14) Clijsters d. (19) Wade 61 75
(11) V. Williams d. (22) Kuznetsova 26 76(3) 62
(6) King d. (27) Kvitova 64 76(8) (Kvitova is so flighty on anything but grass that her inconsistency would do her in against a volleyer)
(7) Seles d. (26) Azarenka 62 57 64 (counterpunching can win a set on hard, she can push Serena she can push Seles)
(10) Goolagong d. (23) Li Na 63 26 62
(18 ) Davenport d. (15) Mandlikova 26 75 75 (total toss up but my heart says Lindsay takes it)
(2) Graf d (31) Martinez 63 61

Rd 2
(1) Court d (16) Sanchez Vicario 36 75 64 (honestly I almost picked Sanchez here because her relentless retrieving would enrage court and Vicario was good enough at net to charge there herself)
(9) Bueno d (8) Henin 36 75 64 (bueno is underrated by many)
(5) S Williams d (12) Hingis 36 62 64
(4) Navratilova d (20) Haydon Jones 57 62 62
(3) Evert d (14) Clijsters 63 46 63 (this woukd be entertaining)
(11) V Williams d (6)King 26 62 75 (Venus would drop the set on clay but blow king on hard, King was a good bit match player and that would make the 3rd set a fight, but Venus I think would win out peak to peak)
(10) Goolagong d (7) Seles 76(5) 57 62 (evonne, like pierce, was flighty. But she was darn good and if she took the clay set it's over. She would win the grass set...and I decided to play the upset card)

(2) Graf d (18)Davenport 62 57 64

QF
(9) Bueno d (1) Court 36 75 64 (Bueno beat court twice in major finals, This could happen no doubt about it. Court had the better career but for one match Bueno coukd knock her out)
(4) Navratilova d (5) S Williams 75 26 76(8)
(3) Evert d (11) V Williams 62 76(8)
(2) Graf d (10) Goolagong 62 64

Semis
(4) Navratilova d (9) Bueno 75 64
(2) Graf d (3) Evert 36 64 64

Finals
(4) Navratilova d (2) Graf 26 76(4) 76(5)

 

[PDJ]

boredone I like your thinking.
And I especially applaud you giving props to Bueno.

 

[mattosgrant]

Unless the hard court was of the fastest kind, Graf would likely win the hard court set from Navratilova IMO. Navratilova did have the big head to head edge on Graf at the U.S Open, but back then that was truly the fastest of all the hard courts on tour.

 

[boredone3456]

boredone I like your thinking.
And I especially applaud you giving props to Bueno.

Bueno to me would benefit from this draw. If she had any of the other top 8 seeds with her I don't think she would make a run like this. She could overwhelm Henin by charging the net on hard and on grass she wins no doubt. Court..she could take her. However by the semis she woukd be to gassed to fight as her fitness was always debatable.

Court...this draw STINKS for her. Novotna is an easy win but a fast relentless defender who can race around and hit everything then charge at you or a power baseliner? Court would have a fit grinding out vicario and expend a lot of energy slugging it out with jem. Then bueno who beat her twice in major finals? Thorn in her side and she knew it? Even if court beat bueno by the time she got to Navratilova or Serena she would be gassed.

 

[boredone3456]

Also I have to wonder what a tournament with pre 1960's women included would look like.

If you factored in Wills, Lenglen, Marble, Clapp, DuPont, Connolly, Hart, Mallory and and Chambers I think you would have a VERY DIFFERENT battle

 

[mattosgrant]

Also do we assume peak playing level or average playing level. Someone like Serena compares much more favorably peak on peak than average on average. Although when she plays the great players (which is nearly all we have in this event) that tends to bring out peak-ish tennis in her no matter what.

 

[boredone3456]

Unless the hard court was of the fastest kind, Graf would likely win the hard court set from Navratilova IMO. Navratilova did have the big head to head edge on Graf at the U.S Open, but back then that was truly the fastest of all the hard courts on tour.

The 5 matches I had the hardest time with were
Bueno/Henin- clay queen vs a grass court fighter. I split the sets in their surfaces and envisioned a hard court fight. Again....this could go either way.

Bueno/Court- in any other section bueno doesn't make the quarters, but draw helps her and court she could read and beat. 2 of courts few major final defeats were to this woman. Could go either way.

Serena/Nav- this was insanely tough to call. I can't say clay starting is good for either, both struggle on dirt. I think Martina could win out on dirt. Hard all serena. Grass....a fight. Martina was at her best on grass, and she wouldn't die after losing the 2nd set to comebacker Serena like many others do.

Graf/Evert-close battle, but if Evert is going to take it it needs to be in straights, and I love Christy but I had to be real that wouldn't happen. I gave her the clay set but I don't know.

Graf/Nav- literally on grass and hard, peak to peak, this is a battle. I put it to tiebreakers to illustrate that. They were close. If it was a slower hardcourt I'd give edge to graf, faster edge to Martina.

 

[mattosgrant]

I assume it would be a medium speed hard court, neither slower or faster, in which case I would favor Graf in a head to head with Martina.

I think Navratilova might overall be a better clay courter than Serena for now, despite 1 less RG title, but in a head to head Serena would probably win the clay set as she would get up for it. Unless Navratilova of 84 Roland Garros somehow showed up. Navratilova wouldnt be able to serve and volley effectively on slow clay against all Serena's power anyway, she would need a faster court for that, and from the baseline she never beats Serena even on clay.

 

[boredone3456]

If the match were best of 3 on clay, I woukd give Serena even odds with Martina. On clay Serena doesn't always start fast and hard, so many times she needs to play into the match or suffers blips more on clay then other surfaces. This year's french is a perfect example, five 3 set matches to win. In just that one set, I favor Martina largely because she WOULD come out hard and if she built a lead Serena might not want to spend the energy fighting back knowing a surface switch was coming.

I can see the point though that If it went baseline Martina is in trouble, but as fast as she is I don't see her never getting to net even with Serena's power on her side. It would be close. Plus...if Serena starts going hard and making errors...that will only hurt her because she wouldn't get that many errors back against Martina either.

 

[pc1]

Also I have to wonder what a tournament with pre 1960's women included would look like.

If you factored in Wills, Lenglen, Marble, Clapp, DuPont, Connolly, Hart, Mallory and and Chambers I think you would have a VERY DIFFERENT battle

Wow, that would be super interesting also. Marble on a fast surface could be the best of them all with the big serve, first and serve and the big volley. Lenglen may be the best of all the baseliners and you have Connolly who was a big hitter.

 

[KG1965]

I am going to regret this...

First Round:

Court def. Novotna 6-0, 6-3
Sanchez-Vicario def. Capriati 6-3, 4-6, 6-2
Austin def. Bueno 7-6, 6-3
Henin def. Pierce 6-3, 3-6, 6-2
S.Williams def. Richey 6-7, 6-0, 6-1
Mauresmo def. Hingis 2-6, 7-6, 6-2
Haydon-Jones def. Sharapova 6-4, 2-6, 6-3
Navratilova def. Turner-Bowrey 6-3, 6-1
Evert def. Sabatini 6-2, 6-4
Clijsters def. Wade 6-4, 6-2
V.Williams def. Kuznetsova 3-6, 6-3, 6-1
King def. Kvitova 6-3, 6-4
Seles def. Azarenka 6-2, 6-3
Goolagong def. Li Na 6-3, 5-7, 6-0
Mandlikova def. Davenport 6-2, 7-6
Graf def. Martinez 6-4, 6-1


Second Round:

Court def. Sanchez-Vicario 6-4, 6-2
Austin def. Henin 3-6, 6-3, 7-6
S. Williams def. Mauresmo 6-4, 6-2
Navratilova def. Haydon-Jones 5-7, 6-2, 6-2
Evert def. Clijsters 6-2, 6-7, 6-1
King def. V. Williams 7-6, 2-6, 7-5
Seles def. Goolagong 6-3, 6-2
Graf def. Mandlikova 6-2, 6-2


Quarter-Finals:

Court def. Austin 6-3, 7-5
Navratilova def. S. Williams 7-6, 2-6, 6-4
Evert def. King 6-0, 6-4
Seles def. Graf 7-6, 7-6


Semi-Finals:

Court def. Navratilova 6-3, 7-5
Seles def. Evert 7-6, 6-3


Final:

Seles def. Court 6-4, 6-3

Agree.
(Evert's fan)

 

[KG1965]

Austin & Mandlikova dangerous .

 

[boredone3456]

Wow, that would be super interesting also. Marble on a fast surface could be the best of them all with the big serve, first and serve and the big volley. Lenglen may be the best of all the baseliners and you have Connolly who was a big hitter.

I might tonight sit and make a tournament including the pre 60s slam winners just for kicks. I think though it would be hard for many to fairly judge them....which may be why they were left out in the first place.

It wouldn't be hard to make a tournament if we are just using slam titles as a marker for seeding...although there would need to be a fair system for ties...chronological doesn't seem fair but that might have to be the choice for arbitrary reasons

 

[pc1]

I might tonight sit and make a tournament including the pre 60s slam winners just for kicks. I think though it would be hard for many to fairly judge them....which may be why they were left out in the first place.

It wouldn't be hard to make a tournament if we are just using slam titles as a marker for seeding...although there would need to be a fair system for ties...chronological doesn't seem fair but that might have to be the choice for arbitrary reasons

As you know majors aren't the end all. Lenglen may have been the most dominant women player in history but she didn't win as many majors as Wills. Connolly was super but she still was a smaller player at I think 5'2" so can her baseline power handle a serve and volley of a Gibson or Marble.

I think it would be fun to see you make a tournament out for the pre 1960s women based on your opinion of peak level. You can do an overall list and a list for grass, fast hardcourt, slow hardcourt and red clay.

 

[boredone3456]

As you know majors aren't the end all. Lenglen may have been the most dominant women player in history but she didn't win as many majors as Wills. Connolly was super but she still was a smaller player at I think 5'2" so can her baseline power handle a serve and volley of a Gibson or Marble.

I think it would be fun to see you make a tournament out for the pre 1960s women based on your opinion of peak level. You can do an overall list and a list for grass, fast hardcourt, slow hardcourt and red clay.

Well I was thinking in interest of quickness following the original format of the post and using majors for seedings. I just looked and there are 30 women who won 5 or more majors.

It would be a pretty packed field I would have to chose 2 random 4 slam winners to even out the field to 32. Unless I made it a supertournament and increased the field to 64....off the top of my head though I don't know if 64 different women have won majors....I guess I could then jump to women who made multiple major finals like Sukova if I had to....I'm not sure how to go about it.

 

[pc1]

Well I was thinking in interest of quickness following the original format of the post and using majors for seedings. I just looked and there are 30 women who won 5 or more majors.

It would be a pretty packed field I would have to chose 2 random 4 slam winners to even out the field to 32. Unless I made it a supertournament and increased the field to 64....off the top of my head though I don't know if 64 different women have won majors....I guess I could then jump to women who made multiple major finals like Sukova if I had to....I'm not sure how to go about it.

That would be fine also.