Tennis swing vs. baseball swing

[New Daddy]

In a baseball swing, you see a lot of sluggers' upper body kind of leaning back (from the target of the ball), with their belly protruding forward, as they swing for the fences. As a matter of fact, when you see the swing motion of a home run, that's the posture the hitter often takes.

Now in a tennis swing, you see the player's upper body leaning towards the target of the ball when the ball is hit cleanly for a winner. It's the natural result of weight transfer from the back foot to the front foot.

My question is, how do baseball players manage to hit home runs with the weight seemingly remaining on the back foot? I understand that even in tennis there is the linear weight transfer and angular momentum, and in modern forehand angular momentum plays a bigger role than liner momentum and all that. But still, is baseball swing biomechanically so much different from tennis swing that the biggest swings in baseball don't involve liner momentum?

 

[josofo]

baseball players obviously transfer their weight. so your description of the difference is a bit extreme. the reason why baseball players can have a higher finish, is they are not worried about keeping the ball down. they can just swing out with their upper bodies.

if a tennis player had this finish they can certainly achieve just as much power. but again, it would be tougher to keep it in.

 

[BevelDevil]

I think it comes down to grips. Baseball players seem to use the equivalent of a full eastern on the bottom hand and full western on the top hand, or something close to that.

If tennis players used those grips, they would have to get their bodies more behind the ball to hit it cleanly. I believe Jim Courier used grips like that, and look at his body:

So now the question becomes, why do baseball players use "extreme" grips? I think that comes down to the weight of the bat. With a heavier instrument, you need to get your palms more behind the handle.

 

[boramiNYC]

the target is different. baseball you want to hit it out of the park. tennis you don't wanna do that. but nadal is an example of leaning back quite a bit more than other pros. his unique technique and swing path makes him do that.

 

[josofo]

I think it comes down to grips. Baseball players seem to use the equivalent of a full eastern on the bottom hand and full western on the top hand, or something close to that.

If tennis players used those grips, they would have to get their bodies more behind the ball to hit it cleanly. I believe Jim Courier used grips like that, and look at his body:

So now the question becomes, why do baseball players use "extreme" grips? I think that comes down to the weight of the bat. With a heavier instrument, you need to get your palms more behind the handle.

did jim courier bat in little league baseball lefty or as a switch hitter?

cuz it really looks like he did by looking at his strokes.

 

[Chas Tennis]

I don't see much forward 'weight transfer' here.

(Click ">" to go to the thread.)

There are three pictures of Sharapova aggressive forehand, see also video http://youtu.be/NjQc7g-Lxt8.

Figure1. Sharapova jumping forehand – 2 racquet’s positions

Figure2. Sharapova jumping forehand – 3 racquet’s positions

Figure3. Sharapova jumping forehand – multiple racquet’s positions

In figure1 Sharapova starts forward swing with leading elbow. In the end of swing the elbow is behind the racquet. So, she rotates ISR around 45° and create mostly horizontal component of the RHS.
Her vertical jump speed creates the racquet upward motion/topspin.
Due to the angle between upper arm and forearm axis is more than 90°, ISR also contributes some (not significant) amount of topspin. The noticeable arm flexion adds topspin and speed.Forearm pronation is small.

For that matter why does some slow 'weight transfer' make any difference to racket head speed anyhow?

(Unless the purpose of forward weight transfer in tennis is only to stretch faster muscles for the stretch-shortening cycle. In batting, maybe they get a stretch by a backward wind up taking the bat backward.)

Baseball batting -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fFJVFPXmV8

 

[berdych31]

Also in baseball you rotate your backfoot while swinging.

 

[BevelDevil]

did jim courier bat in little league baseball lefty or as a switch hitter?

cuz it really looks like he did by looking at his strokes.

I heard that he did play some baseball and batted left-handed at least part of the time, and that he modelled his backhand on it. Notably, he used an Eastern grip on his bottom hand and Western grip on his top hand. This forces him to use a baseball-type swing.

I heard that Agassi's dad modelled Andre's backhand on a baseball swing. However, Andre used more conventional grips, which makes his bh less baseball like.

I don't see much forward 'weight transfer' here.

For that matter why does some slow 'weight transfer' make any difference to racket head speed anyhow?

Your right, on the modern forehand there isn't much forward weight transfer, or if there is, it's incidental.

But on the backhand side (neutral or closed stance), weight transfer is important because it allows the front foot to act as an pivot that the hips and shoulders can rotate around.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, most 2hbh's are closer to lefty eastern grip forehands, with support from the main hand.
Their forehands can be anything from conti to Hawaiin.

 

[dominikk1985]

the baseball swing is different from the
2HBH. I play baseball and I first had to unlearn some things when learning baseball.

the baseball swing is perpendicular around the spine (parallel to the shoulders). since you want a slight upswing in baseball (nearly level) you have to tilt the spine a little to achieve that.

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=wj4tgniju3.penguin_s

In tennis you don't swing parallel to the shoulders around the spine but you have an up component (parallel to the spine or perpendicular to shoulders) on top of the around the spine component. that means tennis players generate the "up" differently than baseball players.

this also shows in the racket path. modern tennis is a curve with a high apex (going up then down) and baseball has a low apex (going down then up).

doing the tennis path (creating "up" by using the hand (i.e. pronation) is often called rolling over. it causes weak grounders and misses, the hands have to stay flat until contact.

 

[dominikk1985]

see how his bat stays flat in plane around the spine

http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting...isy1.eagle_s?p=4&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9

in tennis it would go like a windshield whiper toward his head (up and over).

blue is the baseball plane and red is what a tennis racket would do.
Uploaded with ImageShack.com

 

[charliefedererer]

The HIPS are thrown violently forward in both tennis and baseball.

In both, the hips start back and are thrown forward.

The hips reflect the center of gravity of the body, and reflect the sudden transfer of weight from back to forward.

Don't get misled looking at the back foot.

Are Rafa and Fed way off balance in the above pics?
No.
Check out how far forward they have thrown their front hips coming into impact.
(Yes and plenty of rotation as well, of course.)

 

[user92626]

OP,

It's rather simple. Baseball swing has a lot of "up" component and much less forward component. It's not practical to have an exaggerated linear movement where your backfoot leaves its place. On other hand, tennis shot has a lot of forwardness so the swing, the body, the foot can afford more linear movement.

Even between Nadal and Fed's swings as shown in the photos above, Nadal's swing is more up (as required/prefered by his style) and his back foot stays while Fed hits more forward and can move the foot.

If baseball is hit with tennis trajectory, I doubt home run is possible.

 

[Dimcorner]

Aren't baseball bats like +500g swing weight? I would think balance has to do with it as well since if you lean forward the bat will just yank you out of balance. That and they are swinging for the fence!