The modern game

[Wilander Fan]

It occurs to me that I dont know a single person that really knows how to play the modern game. By modern game, I mean the Nadal, Murray, Nole heavy spin and pound game.

Obviously, there are people that try to play that way but this style really requires alot of practice time to keep in form and fit and also requires great athleticism most people do not have since you need to be fast and tireless. Most pros I know still play with a classic old school game. Ive seen rec players that can hit the modern strokes but they cant seem to keep it up in a way that lets them build points...its more like they can hit a big spinny forehand for the occasional big winner.

Is it really worth it to try and play this way as a rec player?

 

[only4theweak187]

Remember, these guys train in the gym specifically for tennis EVERY SINGLE DAY, that they can. Just so they can be fit enough to play like this.

 

[LeeD]

Well, for sure I can't do it.
Takes too much energy and recovery to play a game of attrition, and then hitting full out topspin off both sides to boot.
Ain't got the energy, so a quicker shorter game is what I play, similar to the '70's.

 

[charliefedererer]

You are not going to be able to do it as well as Rafa, Andy and Fed.

But if others comment, I would think you will find that many/most live in areas where the "modern game" is well established as the way to play and win. The big topspin strokes can lead to great consistancy with high net clearance, and make it easier to pass the net rusher. Just as in the "pre-modern" game, you more often apply firm, gentle pressure with "neutral" shots hit to you, until your opponent either hits a short or angled ball that allows you to up the ante and really pour on the pressure with the next shot.

 

[LeeD]

JohanKriek did not play your "pre-modern" game.
Nor RoscoeTanner, StanSmith, JohnNewcome, IlieNastase (opposite game), and many other hitters who chose to END the points ASAP.

 

[Wilander Fan]

JohanKriek did not play your "pre-modern" game.
Nor RoscoeTanner, StanSmith, JohnNewcome, IlieNastase (opposite game), and many other hitters who chose to END the points ASAP.

I think it really rewards athleticism more than ever before. The top 4 guys are all incredible retrievers. I would say past greats like a McEnroe and the others you named were winning with shot making..relying more on reflexes and hand eye coordination.

Ive been sitting out for awhile with tennis elbow caused by trying to learn a 1hb with extreme grip and a full bed of poly. If my elbow ever gets better, I am going back to my natural eastern grip. The reason I ask this particular question is that i have been pondering whether I should dedicate my time to hit the two handers. The footwork feels unnatural for me but it helps protect my right arm. My knees are finally feeling OK and I think I can cover the court decently now.

 

[LeeD]

Yeah, seems lots of guys and gals can outright HIT the ball, smoking the cover off it into the corners at will.
But the top players can also retrieve, get, run, and improvise.
One glaring example I saw early in my tennis days was one of the Louie sisters, or both of the pro Louie sisters, Marcie and especially Pea/Mareen. They smoked the fuzz off the balls, but NEVER chose to run after a wide, short, or well placed ball. They saved their energy so they could hit THEIR first strike big shots.
Practicing with them, I was never allowed to dropshot, or shortangle. Naturally, they were beaten by women 6.0 or top A players by exactly those shots.

 

[5263]

It occurs to me that I dont know a single person that really knows how to play the modern game. By modern game, I mean the Nadal, Murray, Nole heavy spin and pound game.

Obviously, there are people that try to play that way but this style really requires alot of practice time to keep in form and fit and also requires great athleticism most people do not have since you need to be fast and tireless. Most pros I know still play with a classic old school game. Ive seen rec players that can hit the modern strokes but they cant seem to keep it up in a way that lets them build points...its more like they can hit a big spinny forehand for the occasional big winner.

Is it really worth it to try and play this way as a rec player?

The modern game is the most natural and efficient way to play. It is a lack of understanding and a mixing of negative data from classic that causes problems.

While the modern strokes allow you go bigger, they don't require it, so remember, you can hit modern and not launch big on every shot, while using modern stokes to cover the court easier.
Also know that modern strokes don't require extreme grips, so go with the grip that feels good for your contact point and personal style. The modern game is such that it allows for wide latitude in styles.

 

[LeeD]

..er....
I thought the "modern" game consisted of baseline pounding until you get an attackable ball, then really pound it harder, deeper, with better placement.
I really hate 6+ shot rallies, as I get tired on the next 3 points recovering from all that running, fetching, getting, and retrieving.

 

[5263]

..er....
I thought the "modern" game consisted of baseline pounding until you get an attackable ball, then really pound it harder, deeper, with better placement.
I really hate 6+ shot rallies, as I get tired on the next 3 points recovering from all that running, fetching, getting, and retrieving.

Lee you make a good point here. If that is what he means then yes, I get his point. IF he is relating it to how the strokes are executed, ( lifting, open, power, etc...) then that was what my post related to.

 

[5th Element]

Modern is an unfortunate term. What will it be in 7-10 years? Post modern?

A term like 'Dymanic tennis' would age better.

 

[Blake0]

Lots of kids play the "modern game". Heavy topsin on both sides and attack on short/weak balls. Noone does it to the extent of top pro's ofcourse. Most people who do play the modern game well use the directionals along with the modern game to attack.

I personally don't see nadal, djoker, or murray really play the "modern game" a whole lot. Yeah sure they use the modern strokes to hit but djoker is a big fan of the dropshot, nadal the short angles, murray the slice and they all come up to net quite a bit. I guess you could say their foundation was built on the modern game but has developed into a more all court game as they got better.

For recreational tennis I'd say it's vauable to learn the modern strokes, very efficient way to hit and you can hit hard too which is more fun. But apply the modern strokes to an all court game and have classical elements in your game as well.

 

[Frank Silbermann]

Modern is an unfortunate term. What will it be in 7-10 years? Post modern?

Post-modern is what it is right now. The modern forehand is like Jack Kramer's. I know because I read about it in an article that was published in the early 1960s.

As others have said, you can retrieve as well with the Western forehand as with the Eastern and Continental. Sure, the latter give you wider reach, but the slow high topspin loops that are easier to hit with the Western grip give you greater steadiness when you do reach the ball.

The fact is, not matter what style they play, most people aren't that good. Most teaching pros are good because that's why they became teaching pros, and they play the modern (i.e. 1970s style) game rather than today's postmodern game because that's how they learned.

 

[fuzz nation]

Cool topic.

I don't know whether the modern game is really much more than open-stance ripping from the baseline. While it has some relevance, I still believe that every player can better enjoy the game when they learn an all-court skill set. The pros are one thing, but the recreational realm includes stronger hitters right down to those playing at a beginner level who can't make much use of more modern styled strokes. When they learn to handle shots from all areas of the court though, they can simply do more in a singles or a doubles setting.

Yes, an all-court player can use more of a modern style to hit from the back court, but I think that too many players get way too fixated with that aspect of the game. Even the pros seem to have evolved beyond the power game, at least on the men's side of the ranks, and solid all-court ability seems to be back among the essentials for success. The modern game is one piece of a larger picture.

 

[chico9166]

Cool topic.

I don't know whether the modern game is really much more than open-stance ripping from the baseline. While it has some relevance, I still believe that every player can better enjoy the game when they learn an all-court skill set. The pros are one thing, but the recreational realm includes stronger hitters right down to those playing at a beginner level who can't make much use of more modern styled strokes. When they learn to handle shots from all areas of the court though, they can simply do more in a singles or a doubles setting.

Yes, an all-court player can use more of a modern style to hit from the back court, but I think that too many players get way too fixated with that aspect of the game. Even the pros seem to have evolved beyond the power game, at least on the men's side of the ranks, and solid all-court ability seems to be back among the essentials for success. The modern game is one piece of a larger picture.

This is a really good post.

 

[fuzz nation]

This is a really good post.

Well thanks.

How 'bout you and your findings with the game? What do you see in terms of general priorities among players? Is the modern game getting tougher to identify?

 

[tennisdad65]

I see a lots of juniors who play the modern game very well just like the Pro's do, but obviously at a lower level. Definitely not for us older guys. For me, the 'Current Modern' game is characterized by:
1) Lots of POWER topspin from around and behind the baseline.
2) Good retrieving and defensive skills.
3) Lots of running around the baseline.
4) Good skill with high balls. Relatively poor skill on low balls.
5) In general, poor skills in No Mans Land, around service line, and at the net.

The 'Current Modern' game can be very interesting if atleast a third of the points can end at the net somehow, or with baseline winners. Otherwise, topspin baseline bashing ending in errors, is not fun to watch (ex. WTA).

 

[Power Player]

It is very exhausting, but a great workout and extremely fun. If you are good at it, you will also win matches.

What really changed it for me was footwork. The modern game is not about strokes as much is it is about how you are setting up for them and recovering for the next shot.

I also do not believe it is about long rallys. It is quite easy to end points fast with a well placed stroke to the corner and attacking the net. That all depends on how you play.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Is today's professional game really all that modern though? I remember watching guys like Courier running around their backhands to hit endless numbers of western forehands off the back foot back in the early 90's. It's hardly a new thing.

If I had to label anything as modern, I'd have to say it's the new all-court game that is a combination of heavy groundstrokes + approaching the net from the back to kill off points like PowerPlayer mentioned. It's not flat-out S&V, but it's not a Bruguera vs. Courier slug fest from the baseline either.

In that sense, I'd say a lot of rec guys (adults and juniors) don't play a modern game because they don't use angles and approach shots to kill off points at the net. In that sense, they're playing a game that was developed in the late 80's to early 90's.

 

[Power Player]

Is today's professional game really all that modern though? I remember watching guys like Courier running around their backhands to hit endless numbers of western forehands off the back foot back in the early 90's. It's hardly a new thing.

If I had to label anything as modern, I'd have to say it's the new all-court game that is a combination of heavy groundstrokes + approaching the net from the back to kill off points. It's not flat-out S&V, but it's not a Bruguera vs. Courier slug fest from the baseline either.

It definitley is.

The reason is because players are hitting harder and faster strokes. So the open stance is more utilized than it was in the past. It's not about western strokes as much as it is about being able to hit heavy returns even when being pushed out wide.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

It definitley is.

The reason is because players are hitting harder and faster strokes. So the open stance is more utilized than it was in the past. It's not about western strokes as much as it is about being able to hit heavy returns even when being pushed out wide.

But those faster, heavier shots are due to slower courts (giving players more time to get to the ball) and polyester strings. If you gave some of those guys from the 90's polyester strings and had them play on slower hard courts, they would have played just like a lot of guys today without any change to their technique. Or, if you took current baseline bashers and put them on faster courts with gut strings, they'd play just like the bashers from the 90's. Their technique and strategy wouldn't stand out.

That is, the style is the same as the pioneers from 20+ years ago; it's only the courts and equipment that makes it more effective. Thus, it's not a modern game, it's just modern conditions.

 

[Power Player]

Right...

Regardless, the game has gotten faster. Hence more open stance hitting and more powerful sticks that are controlled with heavier spin strokes and poly.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

Right...

Regardless, the game has gotten faster. Hence more open stance hitting and more powerful sticks that are controlled with heavier spin strokes and poly.

Yeah, but what I was saying is that this style of play is not new. Some guys were playing like that 20 years ago with success, even though many others were still S&V all the way at that time.

So the style is old, it's just the new strings and slower courts that make it even more effective now than it was back then, which has made it more popular. But, "recently popular" doesn't mean "new."

As far as I have seen, the only newish thing is that a few guys are now using heavy groundstrokes and angles to approach the net to kill off points (not S&V or chip and charge, but they still get to the net) rather than expecting to finish everything from the baseline.

To me, that new all-court game is modern, and not many people are doing it yet.

 

[Power Player]

I think when most people use the term modern they are referring to more open stances and aggressive baselining.

 

[fuzz nation]

Well, it is a tricky question when you stop and think about just what the modern game is along with who can benefit from learning it.

Many better kids are learning modern strokes early on, but I don't believe that enough of them are also developing good all-court games.

Recreational players with a few more years on them who didn't learn much in terms of a modern stroke style are in that sort of twilight zone, though. Each player has to figure out what they want/need in their games along with how much of an investment in time and effort it will take to re-tool their strokes.

I personally wouldn't encourage too many recreational players (and that's a rather broad range) to get hung up on learning modern strokes. That doesn't mean that I think everyone is fine using a continental grip for all of their strokes, but unless a player is seeking a serious next level, I don't think that many of the 3.5 hitters out there need to get into extremes.

If "recreational" play means hitting a couple times a week for fun, then there's that. If it means you're not a pro, but you're playing competitively, looking to ascend the ranks, and you can't hang with your peers because you're out-gunned, maybe that's the player who needs a more modern stroke.

 

[sureshs]

All juniors play the modern game.

Oldies who came to tennis late in life cannot play it, however much they try.

 

[LeeD]

"modern game"...
Use all your energy to hit ONE semi effective push ball back to the other side and wait to react to your opponent's reply".....

 

[Netspirit]

In my mind there was the classic era lasting from Laver to Sampras. Heavy sticks, small racket heads, moderate head speeds, 1HBH, S&V, Continental-or-Eastern FH grips, fast surfaces, lots of touch.

Then there was a transitional era of R.F. The guy's technique was hybrid - Eastern forehand but modern WW finish, racket still heavy but a bit lighter, racket head still small but a bit bigger, good all-court game but strong preference to baseline play, and so on.

Then there was the "modern" game that started with the "new balls please" generation - Hewitt, Safin, Nadal. It was all about power baseline rallies with lots of topspin, open stances, light rackets, small grip sizes, all-poly setups, 2HBH with no exceptions.

In 2009 it appeared that the modern game was getting replaced by a new "post-modern" (or "new classic") style - tall flat hard hitting. The breakthrough year for Soderling, Cilic, Del Potro and other tall guys (all beating Nadal handily) made some people believe the "modern" game will get dated soon.

However, in 2010 it is no longer obvious. Either Nadal took it to the next level, or the "tall flat" guys had a bad season. Let's see.

 

[Limpinhitter]

It occurs to me that I dont know a single person that really knows how to play the modern game. By modern game, I mean the Nadal, Murray, Nole heavy spin and pound game.

Obviously, there are people that try to play that way but this style really requires alot of practice time to keep in form and fit and also requires great athleticism most people do not have since you need to be fast and tireless. Most pros I know still play with a classic old school game. Ive seen rec players that can hit the modern strokes but they cant seem to keep it up in a way that lets them build points...its more like they can hit a big spinny forehand for the occasional big winner.

Is it really worth it to try and play this way as a rec player?

I think so! It's not that hard. I see 10 year old girls at tennis camps hitting looping windshield wiper forehands and 2hb's all the time. It's just a skill set that's not very different from what you already know how to do. You just have to understand it, learn it, and practice it. If you're dedicated, in a few months, the investment will pay off. I've been playing tennis for over 40 years, I'm learning it now, and it's working out quite well.

 

[spaceman_spiff]

I think when most people use the term modern they are referring to more open stances and aggressive baselining.

I agree, but my argument is that this style of play isn't a modern thing; it's been around since the early 90's.

For example, check out how many aggressive baseliners there were in the year-end top 50 in 1993: http://www.atpworldtour.com/Press/Year-End-Rankings.aspx.

It's a more successful style now than it was back then, but that doesn't mean it's a new thing. Guys like Courier were successfully using open-stance, aggressive baseline tactics 15-20 years ago.

 

[Power Player]

I get you, but it's just arguing semantics at this point.

 

[fuzz nation]

All juniors play the modern game.

Oldies who came to tennis late in life cannot play it, however much they try.

I know what you're saying, but the thing is, my strokes have evolved a lot since my younger days when I grew up as a true serve and volleyer. Even against the better high school kids I coach or work out with, too many of them have modern strokes and nothing else. I've worked hard at improving my ground game so that I can sustain points from the baseline with a SW forehand and one-handed backhand, but I can easily move forward and own most of these kids when I want to.

I agree that most of the "sluggers" among the juniors are learning modern strokes, but I don't think that they're always learning a full set of skills. If the modern game is such a great thing, I think that those strokes would be a component of it instead of the central focus. It's certainly a tall order for older players to re-learn their mechanics and get comfortable with modern strokes, but I see lots stronger juniors doing not much more than baselining with those open-stance rips. Is that about it?

 

[Power Player]

I think most young players use an open stance and play baseline, but they are definitley evolving their game to be able to finish points at the net. Nadal is not a great volleyer, but he finishes at the net a lot.

Roddick switched to serve and volley to beat a few guys, and with his serve that makes complete sense.

To be a great tennis player, you have to do everything well. The modern game is just an easier way to get heavy pace and recover faster, but not a baseline only philosophy. It is simply needed in today's game if you are playing good players who hit hard and can move you around.