Thoughts on Mixed Dubs

[Startzel]

Not doubting your Mixed credentials. And perhaps I was exaggerating some. But as you say yourself, optimal shot selection is different in Mixed 4.5/3.5 vs Mens 4.5. Perhaps you are able to adapt your instinctual shot selection as you switch between the two, but if so you are the exception rather than the rule.
Out of interest, how do you do in Mens 4.5 and Mixed 9.0?

Looks like he was 5-1 in 4.5 and 2-0 in 9.0. He's obviously a strong player.

As I suspected his 3.5 partner in 8.0 is a former 4.0.

 

[tennisjon]

I am 7-1 this year in mixed. Our team lost in the finals of sectionals. (One win from nationals). This does not make me an expert but it does give me on the court experience in competitive mixed.

Hitting every ball at the girl does not work. Our 3.5 girls are good enough to volley the ball to the open court or at least to the other women. Sure, if I give the other team control of the point they will try their best to isolate my partner.

Returning every serve to my partner will not work. My partner can volley and I hit a pretty big serve. Sure you can pass her some but I am trying to figure out what serve you least like to hit down the line. If it is not a very good shot you lose the point.

When you are selecting a shot there are more "correct" choices than in men's doubles. More strategies that work and can be executed. You have to be able to hit a wider variety of shots to enable all of the possibilities. If you only have one plan the other team can counter it to easily. If you only hit at the girl obviously it will be possible for me to cross and put that away. It took me several seasons to understand this and develop these shots.

My regular men's doubles players have commented on how I am more difficult to play against as I have developed a wider verity of shots, more aggressive net play, anticipation, put away shots and strategic play. All of which are at a premium in mixed.

I second these comments. I play a lot of 8.0 as a 4.5, I have the weakest partner on the court. My job is to make sure she hits shots she is capable of making as much as possible. I take balls down the middle that are anything above average in difficulty, but I would do that if I was playing 4.5 men's doubles. I make sure I hit deep, heavy shots to whoever is at the baseline. They can either keep hitting with me or attempt to take a ball out of their comfort zone and hit towards my partner. If I did my job, she should have a relatively easy put away. If that is not her expertise, then she can play the baseline and I will try to poach off the opponents shots.

 

[justinmadison]

The question is how do you enjoy that style of tennis of just beating up on weaker opponents?

I definitely enjoy playing men's doubles more than mixed.

My two points are ... it is more complicated that just beating up on the weaker player (the women) ... and you can learn/improve while playing mixed.

I hated playing mixed at first, primarily because I just could not seem to win at all, but now I have fun.

To OrangePower's question about instinctual shot selection question ... I have not noticed any problems in this area but I will now keep it in mind. My guess is mixed is usually slower and so I don't need the instinct as much and so it has not really affected my men's game.

 

[Max G.]

I'm going to disagree with some of that about shot selection being instinctual... it's something you want to have conscious control over, not just reflex.

If your return of serve positioning is instinctual you're going have a hell of a time when a doubles team plays I-formation or does planned poaches or changes up their positioning. In singles, if your groundstroke positioning is all instinct then you're going to be super-predictable and after a few games your opponent can catch on and will be able to easily cover all your shots. You have to be able to, between points, decide what tactics you're going to do and THEN let your reflexes take over and execute on your plan.

Being able to change your tactics based on what your opponents are doing is clearly a valuable tennis skill.

 

[NTRPolice]

I'm going to disagree with some of that about shot selection being instinctual... it's something you want to have conscious control over, not just reflex.

If your return of serve positioning is instinctual you're going have a hell of a time when a doubles team plays I-formation or does planned poaches or changes up their positioning. In singles, if your groundstroke positioning is all instinct then you're going to be super-predictable and after a few games your opponent can catch on and will be able to easily cover all your shots. You have to be able to, between points, decide what tactics you're going to do and THEN let your reflexes take over and execute on your plan.

Being able to change your tactics based on what your opponents are doing is clearly a valuable tennis skill.

Agreed... but what I think people are really saying is that when both players are equally skilled, the game has a much better flow to it. When one player is significantly weaker than the other, the game plays much more differently. You're either trying to win the game by constantly attacking the weaker player, or trying to be "social" and avoiding hurting them. When one player is much weaker than the other, they are going to be the weaker player from start to finish. It's not totally the same thing as playing I-formation or poaching occasionally.

For example: In Mixed, when the guy is serving a second serve, im going to challenge the girl at net as often as I can and i'm never going to lob. I can do an easy roller DTL to make her reach, go hard straight at her, or just a standard hard DTM return. When the woman is serving, im almost never going to challenge the man at net and I am going to make him struggle trying to intercept the ball. I LOVE to lob returns in mixed when the woman is serving, especially when it's over the backhand OH of the man and will make the woman have to run. This gives me an easy time closing into the net. In mens league, im probably going to challenge each man somewhat equally, but most of my returns will be CC with the occasional DTL to keep them honest.

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Agreed... but what I think people are really saying is that when both players are equally skilled, the game has a much better flow to it. When one player is significantly weaker than the other, the game plays much more differently. You're either trying to win the game by constantly attacking the weaker player, or trying to be "social" and avoiding hurting them. When one player is much weaker than the other, they are going to be the weaker player from start to finish. It's not totally the same thing as playing I-formation or poaching occasionally.

For example: In Mixed, when the guy is serving a second serve, im going to challenge the girl at net as often as I can and i'm never going to lob. I can do an easy roller DTL to make her reach, go hard straight at her, or just a standard hard DTM return. When the woman is serving, im almost never going to challenge the man at net and I am going to make him struggle trying to intercept the ball. I LOVE to lob returns in mixed when the woman is serving, especially when it's over the backhand OH of the man and will make the woman have to run. This gives me an easy time closing into the net. In mens league, im probably going to challenge each man somewhat equally, but most of my returns will be CC with the occasional DTL to keep them honest.

Around here you would get a bad rep for challenging the girl at net and going straight at her, even in USTA league play. But every local area is different on this.

 

[MathGeek]

I'm going to disagree with some of that about shot selection being instinctual... it's something you want to have conscious control over, not just reflex.

My instincts are to hit it where they ain't: to the most open court. I need to consciously adjust in MxD to reckon that the Zone of Unlikely Return extends closer to the weaker player than to the stronger player.

Around here you would get a bad rep for challenging the girl at net and going straight at her, even in USTA league play. But every local area is different on this.

Once it is clear that one player is weaker, there is no stigma attached to challenging them in my neighborhood, but one needs to take some care with how one goes about it. Hitting hard enough to cause injury would be frowned upon as would any on court antics (mocking, celebrating, etc.) seemed intended to embarrass a player. It is not ungentlemanly simply to play the game to win, but it's still the South, and one must still act like a gentleman.

 

[NTRPolice]

Around here you would get a bad rep for challenging the girl at net and going straight at her, even in USTA league play. But every local area is different on this.

It's like that here too, except when you get to the playoff level. Once you get to the playoff level every girl who is playing mixed is solid at net, or they're the higher rated player and their male partner is solid at net. People in the playoffs may complain about getting beaned, but they wont complain about being challenged. It's pretty hard to get beaned at net from a baseline shot if you know what you are doing.

People who dont know what they are doing always complain about the opponents play style. As far as im concerned, as long as a player isnt cheating, it's a fair fight.