UTR or USTA flex leagues

[Moon Shooter]

I would be interested in peoples experiences with either. I'm mainly interested in singles matches. If anyone has played with both it would be great to hear the pros and cons of each. Is the role of the captain harder or easier with flex leagues? Do they even have team captains? The players are supposed to work out the times of their matches right? Are different areas competing against each other or is this mostly local players playing each other? No flex leagues show up on the website for either USTA or UTR in my area. I am told someone is captaining/running a USTA flex league in my area and the coordinator said they would let them know I was interested but I have not heard back. Are there teams or is this more like a ladder?

 

[Cashman]

Anything associated with UTR is horrendously expensive

The only reason to play UTR events seems to be to help your UTR rating, otherwise it's just a pricey way to play all the same local players you always do

 

[Biologydropout]

The only USTA flex league I’ve seen in my small part of Southern was a singles league last fall/winter. For that league each individual was their own “team” and was responsible for setting up and playing matches against their opponent that week. I think we had 6 people so everyone played 10 matches. This year we went back to actual teams playing three lines of singles.

 

[Max G.]

I’ve enjoyed flex leagues.

There’s no teams and no captains. You sign up and get your list of opponents and their contact info and when you’re supposed to play by, and it’s up to you and them to arrange a court time. It DOES take a million emails to get all the matches organized, and so many people are flaky and don’t respond, but usually it’s ok.

I’ve played in USTA flex leagues, UTR, and two other local ones (ultimate tennis, San Jose Flex Leagues). I don’t think it really matters which one to play in, they all felt the same, it’s just which one players play in in a particular area. They each have their own levels system so might take a season for someone to find the right level,

 

[TennisOTM]

In USTA, "flex leagues" mean one thing, which is what others have described: no captain, no fixed schedule, you arrange your own match times with the other players in the league.

But there are also USTA leagues categorized as "flex format" which means something different. These are more like regular team leagues but the lineup format can be designed however the league organizer wants, in terms of singles, doubles, and gender. I saw one flex format league that used 1 M singles, 1 F singles, 1 singles, where that third line could be either gender.

 

[ChaelAZ]

s the role of the captain harder or easier with flex leagues? Do they even have team captains? The players are supposed to work out the times of their matches right? Are different areas competing against each other or is this mostly local players playing each other? No flex leagues show up on the website for either USTA or UTR in my area. I am told someone is captaining/running a USTA flex league in my area and the coordinator said they would let them know I was interested but I have not heard back. Are there teams or is this more like a ladder?

I have played USTA Flex several times. It is usually coordinated by a USTA volunteer who promotes it and gives the general schedule with contact information of all players. I have only played singles so you are the captain of a one man boat. The schedule is always tentative and they just do it so you are supposed to play a different player each week, and in my experience that doesn't work really. So I email and text almost all the listed players and start doing my own schedule based on their availability. I have NEVER played a whole line-up and usually get to play 80% of those signed up in good seasons, or down to only 50% in bad ones. What I do like is, even in bad seasons I offer to play anyone more than once, so while the first match is the one that counts for standings, if we have a good match I just play them one or two more times during season. And for standings it is not a ladder, but simply total win loss that moves you up or down in our area. Not that it matters because felx does not count towards USTA ratings. Again, in my experience playing USTA 4.0 flex, usually only a few of the players are actually at level. Flex was meant for people to be introduced to USTA and tennis so no USTA membership is required and ratings are kind of moot. That is one reason I looked at UTR flex, because it is based on actual ratings so I assume play level would be a bit better.

So anyways, I always say USTA flex is like the 'Who's Line is it Anyway" of tennis, where the ratings are made up and the points don't really count. Personally I have asked for an offical USTA singles league, so ratings and matches count, but suffice to say the current leagues are the only opportunties for seasonal play. Tourneys can provide a few weekends of it at least.

 

[Power Player]

UTR flex. Better matches and the price is not expensive. I think I paid $30.

 

[KamehamehaBackhand]

So I just started my first UTR flex league. They weren't available where I lived previously, but Denver does have one. I've played 2 matches so far. The first I won 6-0, 6-1 and the second I lost 6-0, 6-0. So clearly so far the range of skill levels within my division seems very large. On top of that there are participants anywhere from Colorado Springs to Boulder, which is a 2+ hour driving range.

On the other hand I've participated in many USTA flex leagues in the past. Since they're specific to a NTRP level they are typically competitive matches, with the exception of a few women I've played who normally only play doubles.

I like the idea of the UTR flex league a lot because it's coed, but so far USTA has been a better skill level/competitive matches. And for the record, the UTR lopsided win was against a guy and the lopsided loss was against a woman (she's a 4.5 singles player and I'm a 3.5 but our UTRs are only 1 apart).

 

[schmke]

So I just started my first UTR flex league. They weren't available where I lived previously, but Denver does have one. I've played 2 matches so far. The first I won 6-0, 6-1 and the second I lost 6-0, 6-0. So clearly so far the range of skill levels within my division seems very large. On top of that there are participants anywhere from Colorado Springs to Boulder, which is a 2+ hour driving range.

On the other hand I've participated in many USTA flex leagues in the past. Since they're specific to a NTRP level they are typically competitive matches, with the exception of a few women I've played who normally only play doubles.

I like the idea of the UTR flex league a lot because it's coed, but so far USTA has been a better skill level/competitive matches. And for the record, the UTR lopsided win was against a guy and the lopsided loss was against a woman (she's a 4.5 singles player and I'm a 3.5 but our UTRs are only 1 apart).

What is the advertised UTR range for your league/flight/group? Did they set the expectation matches should be competitive?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Since our main captain won't be doing our 4.0 team, and I decided I wouldn't take over, I have to either move to another team (not likely at all since they all play out of other faciltities/clubs), or try flex again (most likely). As mentioned above, I haven't had the best, or at least a consistent experience with USTA Flex for level, so a buddy is the one coordinating our local UTR Flex and I might sing up with him. Last round they had a good several players around my UTR (currently 5.75), so thinking it might be fun. Then again, may just stick with tournaments instead of committing to weekly matches. Already have around 8 different singles players from 3.5 to 4.5 I am rotating matches with, so isn't really needed except to meet new folks.

Will see.

 

[KamehamehaBackhand]

What is the advertised UTR range for your league/flight/group? Did they set the expectation matches should be competitive?

The description includes a sentence that says "Find new level-based competitors" so I think they do intend the matches to be competitive.
It's one registration page for all levels, then based on who registers they split it into a few divisions. They had enough for 3 groups for this session.

My UTR is around 3.6 now and they put me in group 2. The other UTRs are in the 3-5 range for the group. The guy I played first didn't have a UTR but they had an estimate of 2-4 (I think they ask for a description of your level if you don't have a UTR). After playing me he's listed as a 2.xx. The woman I played is a 4.xx but she said she used to be in the 5 range, but hasn't had many results recently so it's gone down.

Looking at the other divisions, group 3 ranges 1-3 and group 1 ranges 5-6. I guess they would need more people to sign up in order to have more narrow ranges which would result in more competitive matches.

 

[Moon Shooter]

UTR might have some value depending on your area. But because they completely ignore results earlier than 12 months it will fail for the vast majority of adult rec players - especially when it comes to singles play.

In my area the 3.0 league singles players are about 3 UTR points stronger than the 3.5 players. They put me at 1.57 singles after I played a few 3.5 matches and one unrated player that plays like a decent 3.5 player (although UTR has him at a 1.00!) I'm also on a 3.0 team and the 3.0 guy that lost two 3.0 singles matches has a 4.75 singles UTR. The 3.0 players that beat him have 5.25 utr singles (6-4 7-5) and 5.68 utr singles (6-1 6-1). I beat him 6-0 6-0 in a practice set. Although I will say just about every game was won by the minimum number of points he had very few game points on his side. But still UTR just ignores too much data and that clearly creates odd pockets of ratings. UTR is just not set up for adult rec players unless you and pretty much everyone you play all play about 15 or more singles and 15 or more doubles games per year.

 

[Biologydropout]

UTR might have some value depending on your area. But because they completely ignore results earlier than 12 months it will fail for the vast majority of adult rec players - especially when it comes to singles play.

In my area the 3.0 league singles players are about 3 UTR points stronger than the 3.5 players. They put me at 1.57 singles after I played a few 3.5 matches and one unrated player that plays like a decent 3.5 player (although UTR has him at a 1.00!) I'm also on a 3.0 team and the 3.0 guy that lost two 3.0 singles matches has a 4.75 singles UTR. The 3.0 players that beat him have 5.25 utr singles (6-4 7-5) and 5.68 utr singles (6-1 6-1). I beat him 6-0 6-0 in a practice set. Although I will say just about every game was won by the minimum number of points he had very few game points on his side. But still UTR just ignores too much data and that clearly creates odd pockets of ratings. UTR is just not set up for adult rec players unless you and pretty much everyone you play all play about 15 or more singles and 15 or more doubles games per year.

You know you can self report to UTR, right? If you’re playing matches outside sanctioned events just agree with your opponent the score will be recorded and self report.

 

[Moon Shooter]

You know you can self report to UTR, right? If you’re playing matches outside sanctioned events just agree with your opponent the score will be recorded and self report.

Yes I know and I think that is a nice feature. I tried running an informal group like that but many people get the profile all screwed up (they don't realize they already have one from usta matches so make a different one etc.) and unless everyone logs in the matches do not get approved. I can't enter the match results for my group so if they don't bother then their rating remains off. In other words its allot of prodding and poking at tennis friends to post a result that will be erased in 12 months anyway. It wasn't worth it for me.

For my area WTN shows more promise. I hope WTN allows many matches to be easily included. How easy it is to record matches is the main question mark hanging over the WTN rating system. It's just taking forever to know how this will work.

 

[socallefty]

Join a tennis club. Most have a flex singles ladder and you can play a lot of matches without driving all over your county or dealing with flaky opponents who will change a match time three times before playing.