UTR tournament

[R1FF]

Chaperones are permitted. It just means you don't have random adult strangers sharing a court alone with children.


We're not really talking about daycare. It's mostly just a matter of having to provide a safe environment if you're going to have a bunch of children on the premises. Kids are vulnerable in a way adults are not.

That’s called a daycare if you’re asking someone else to supervise your child & take responsibility for their safety.

It’s exactly why organizers of all events like this do not allow parents to just randomly drop their kids off. The organizers dont want the responsibility.

So now that you are aware that kids are not being left on random courts alone with creepy pedo’s, can you admit your beef with kids vs adult matches has no merit?

 

[Cashman]

Are 16 and 17 year old kids really accompanied to all their matches by mummy and daddy? That's just so weird to me.

 

[R1FF]

Are 16 and 17 year old kids really accompanied to all their matches by mummy and daddy? That's just so weird to me.

Make up your mind already.

 

[R1FF]

Are 16 and 17 year old kids really accompanied to all their matches by mummy and daddy? That's just so weird to me.

What’s weird is that you imply they’re too old to need supervision... yet still vunerable enough to get raeped out on a court in broad daylight?

You have to be trolling at this point.

 

[Cashman]

Are you about to imply they’re too old to need supervision... yet still vunerable enough to get raeped out on a court in broad daylight?

I am just saying, in Australia there isn't a lot of need for helicopter parenting because there is a focus on making sure the places that kids go are safe. My parents probably would have been more reluctant to let me cycle off to play tennis all day every Saturday if I was going somewhere with a bunch of sketchy adult randos hanging around.

There's also a lot more to creating a safe environment for kids than ensuring they are not "***** in broad daylight". You know - like preventing verbal harassment, inappropriate touching, etc.

 

[R1FF]

There's also a lot more to creating a safe environment for kids than ensuring they are not "***** in broad daylight". You know - like preventing verbal harassment, inappropriate touching, etc.

Which is why tennis events are not daycares and parents are expected to supervise their own kids.

Now can you drop it? It’s a moot issue here.

 

[Cashman]

I just find the "it's either daycare or helicopter parenting" mentality interesting. Very American.

 

[R1FF]

I just find the "it's either daycare or helicopter parenting" mentality interesting. Very American.

You are the one calling it helicopter parenting.

You are the one demanding safety & supervision.

If it’s done by the event it’s somehow not helicopter parenting? It’s the same damn thing. You just expect the organizers to do it and here we dont.

Semantics lost in translation... very Australian of you.

 

[Cashman]

If it’s done by the event it’s somehow not helicopter parenting? It’s the same damn thing. You just expect the organizers to do it and here we dont.

Well, no. What I am talking about is providing a safe environment so that less supervision is required.

For example, when I was a kid we'd have 60-120 kids across 30 courts and maybe 6 staff members and officials overseeing the whole thing. Because the facility was a safe environment (i.e. no random adults) the kids could just be sent out to the back courts to run the matches themselves and bring the balls back when they were done.

If they'd not provided the safe environment then suddenly you do need supervision and and so you would have had dozens of parents spread over 30 courts, all watching their own kid (and a lot of parents who would have said "I don't have time to sit in the sun for six hours watching you play so you can't compete").

One of those scenarios makes a lot more sense to me, but I guess it is a cultural difference.

 

[MathGeek]

For example, when I was a kid we'd have 60-120 kids across 30 courts and maybe 6 staff members and officials overseeing the whole thing. Because the facility was a safe environment (i.e. no random adults) the kids could just be sent out to the back courts to run the matches themselves and bring the balls back when they were done.

It seems silly to define a safe environment as "no random adults." With that definition, USTA events and other tennis events that are limited to players under 18 are no safer than UTR events. I've been to many, many tennis events in the US, and while some limit competitors to those under 18, none have restricted access to the grounds. Most folks in attendance are players and their parents, but there are often other adults on the event grounds, in the waiting areas, watching the matches and so on. These events are usually held in public parks, and even the events at private clubs have done nothing to restrict who is on site.

How are UTR events less safe, since the only place they prevent the adults on site from going is on the court across the net from the juniors. If "random adults" on site make tennis unsafe for juniors, USTA events are unsafe also, as are most high school tennis events. I've frequently been one of those "random adults" at high school tennis events, either watching a junior practice or occasionally playing with an adult friend on an adjacent court. (High school events only keep random adults and others off of the courts they are actually using. All the other courts at the facility are still open to the public.)

 

[sureshs]

As a parent, I never worried about whether everyone around my children had a background check. My wife and I have known too many creepy people who passed background checks (public school teachers) to have more confidence in people who have had them. Our children played lots of sports and other activities (music, church groups, hobbies) and we never worried about whether every adult who had contact with our children had a background check.

More creepy stuff happened in the public schools than ever happened in other supervised activities. Some principals:
1. We warned our children not to be alone with others. A public soccer field gives very little opportunity for evil compared with an empty classroom.
2. We personally stayed with our children until we were comfortable with the overall environment and the people in charge. Often we were volunteer coaches or facilitators. Other times, we just remained in attendance as spectators. There were a number of situations where we were never comfortable leaving our children without a parent in attendance. A background check would not have raised our comfort level.
3. The other children are often more likely sources of evil than the adults in charge. For us, it's not enough for the adults in charge to pass a background check - they need to be duly diligent in protecting children from evil when the source of that evil is third parties.

Indoor venues tend to provide more opportunity for evil than outdoor venues where everyone is in sight of each other and the adult supervisors (and the parents if they stay and watch.)

The tennis venues I've been to provide little opportunity for harm to juniors. They tend to be open, public parks or similar. If an adult who is not a parent stops to watch, it seldom takes long for a parent to start a conversation with them and see what's up. The most dangerous thing I ever saw (and I paid close attention) was a drug deal in a public park maybe 100 yards from the courts where my son was having lessons. I pulled my son from the lesson and we went home. The real risk was minimal, but I wanted to set a good example for my son to leave when drugs arrive at a location.

All things considered, I would not be any slower to allow my children to participate in UTR tournaments that include adults. UTR tournaments do not represent any risk to my children's safety, but they do often provide additional and unique competition opportunities closer to home.

I also appreciate that our government is not so draconian as to force background checks. It's not making the public schools any safer - it just adds expense and bureaucracy. About half the available youth sports our children have participated in do require background checks for adults working with children, but I have not seen anything that suggests those background checks create a safer environment.

Highly biased and unreliable post designed to make public schools look bad. If you and your wife have known too many creepy public school teachers and not reported the matter, that is a dereliction of duty. Your "principals" do not list one actual credible fact. Most likely, you and your friends make up these anecdotes and amplify them in order to demean public schools. Most of the dangerous pedophiles have been found in private religious schools and in religious institutions, and the cover-up has been humongous, sometimes taking decades to come out. Every day one more incident is reported.

BTW, background checks are the norm these days for much of private hiring, so it is not just the government which has an interest. And background checks accomplish a lot, your ulterior motive about cheapening public schools notwithstanding. In fact, people's lives have been ruined by background checks due to them being flagged as a sex offender for being gay, and they had to go to court. Also find about how a minor crime can lead to a vicious cycle of poverty due to unemployment arising from background checks (which are very effective).

The real problem in public schools is the one you cleverly avoid - the insistence of a large section of the "religious" community to endorse the multiplication of guns in society to secure "freedom." Pedos are insignificant compared to the destruction and paranoia caused by guns. When schools are forced to employ metal detectors and security guards, their concern is not about the creepy guy lurking around, but by a full-fledged domestic terrorist carrying machine guns.

 

[MathGeek]

If you and your wife have known too many creepy public school teachers and not reported the matter, that is a dereliction of duty.

There's an important difference between "creepy" and "criminal." "Creepy" means something giving a parent concern regarding the safety of their child. Criminal means evidence is present supporting law enforcement action. Some things that we have found "creepy" among public school teachers that probably did not warrant law enforcement attention:
1. Teachers possessing pornography on their personal phones and computers.
2. Teachers discussing their sex lives and STD experiences in the classroom.
3. Teachers allowing students to have sex at school.
4. Teachers promoting illegal drug use on their personal social media.
5. Teachers introducing literature in school with descriptions of sex and sexuality we believe was age-inappropriate. (Such as Allen Ginsberg's Howl in elementary school.)
6. Teachers repeatedly leering and staring at students' sexual body parts.

Many of these things will be considered creepy by lots of parents as relating to the safety of their children in school, and it is an important aspect of parental freedom to base educational choices on the things they consider important. However, to my knowledge, in most states, there is no legal duty for a parent to report concerns based on the above issues, especially if the parent has only heard of these things through their children and is not an eyewitness themselves. My wife and I did report several of the above issues to the appropriate authorities. No legal action was ever taken. In other cases, we consulted attorneys regarding whether we had a duty to report and whether any legal action could be expected to be taken based on our report. Our legal counsel told us we neither had a duty to report, nor could we expect any action to be taken if we did report.

Your "principals" do not list one actual credible fact. Most likely, you and your friends make up these anecdotes and amplify them in order to demean public schools.

Consider point 3.
3. The other children are often more likely sources of evil than the adults in charge.

Look up some studies on sexting. A large percentage of high school males in public schools are in possession of child pornography on their cell phones. Many are often actively soliciting female students to make and send them child pornography.

Also, you would do well to look up some studies on drugs and bullying in public high schools. Who is bullying other students and bringing the illegal drugs into the schools? It isn't the teachers, it's the other students.

 

[MathGeek]

Are 16 and 17 year old kids really accompanied to all their matches by mummy and daddy? That's just so weird to me.

I don't know about "all", but certainly "most." But our son played in USTA matches at the B16 and B18 levels as well as a number of UTR events. Our standard practice was to attend his matches. We also observed that at least one parent or other close relative was always or very nearly always in attendance watching his opponents.

In the US, it's considered "normal" good parenting for parents to attend their children's competitive sporting events, even through high school - and this is not just tennis, it is very common in baseball, football, soccer, etc.

Another contributing factor may be that fewer teens in the US are driving these days, likely due to changing laws and increased insurance rates. If the teen isn't driving, the responsible adult who provides the ride often stays and watches.
I tend to think a teen who can be trusted with a driver's license and car should probably be able to take care of themselves in public places like a tennis court, which is a much safer place than most roads.

 

[5sets]

Cashman has already admitted to trolling. I think it’s fair to say none of us is going to jump over the tennis net at a UTR tourney and rape a 16 year old.

And when I was 16 I certainly knew how to use my fists, though I’m not certain about todays smartphone screen generation, so it really wouldn’t matter if my parents were there or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cashman]

when I was 16 I certainly knew how to use my fists

https://www.theonion.com/report-average-male-4-000-less-effective-in-fights-th-1819576624

 

[5sets]

Well, no. What I am talking about is providing a safe environment so that less supervision is required.

For example, when I was a kid we'd have 60-120 kids across 30 courts and maybe 6 staff members and officials overseeing the whole thing. Because the facility was a safe environment (i.e. no random adults) the kids could just be sent out to the back courts to run the matches themselves and bring the balls back when they were done.

If they'd not provided the safe environment then suddenly you do need supervision and and so you would have had dozens of parents spread over 30 courts, all watching their own kid (and a lot of parents who would have said "I don't have time to sit in the sun for six hours watching you play so you can't compete").

One of those scenarios makes a lot more sense to me, but I guess it is a cultural difference.

What makes you think one of the 6 staff members or officials overseeing you wasn’t a pedophile. Newsflash: background checks aren’t difficult to pass


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cashman]

Newsflash: background checks aren’t difficult to pass

That as may be, but they are substantially better than nothing.

 

[5sets]

That as may be, but they are substantially better than nothing.

Was this your “non-random adult” tennis coach?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Cashman]

I don't know who that is.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

This thread got interesting, playing another UTR this weekend, hoping to move the rating up, no mercy mode I guess, ugh.

 

[R1FF]

This thread got interesting, playing another UTR this weekend, hoping to move the rating up, no mercy mode I guess, ugh.

Im actually loving the UTR system. I've been tracking all my casual matches. My unverified UTR is actually worse than my verified (I play up against better competition and usually lose) but lately I've gotten a few wins against NTRP 4.0's and my unverified UTR is steadily coming up.

I love the real-time rating that I can see adjust as the weeks go by.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I have nothing against it, it's just going to be cringy trying to get it back up to where it should be, and what if I lose when I am trying, ahhhh! Just for context, my doubles partners in USTA are 2-3 points higher in UTR than my singles UTR and some of my opponents that I beat are also three points higher in singles UTR than my UTR.

 

[Pro Kenneth]

Are you beating them in Usta matches?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Are you beating them in Usta matches?

Them being whoever I play in USTA, yes.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

All right-y internet tennis peoples, just finished and played up a level (UTR was rounded up so my group was a higher number). I won 3 matches and only dropped 4 games total, so hopefully this is a good jump start to a higher and more correct UTR rating for me. Truly, no mercy was given, but I didn't fist pump or anything either.

 

[5sets]

All right-y internet tennis peoples, just finished and played up a level (UTR was rounded up so my group was a higher number). I won 3 matches and only dropped 4 games total, so hopefully this is a good jump start to a higher and more correct UTR rating for me. Truly, no mercy was given, but I didn't fist pump or anything either.

Good to hear, that’s the only way one should be going about it. Next time around they will give you better matchups for sure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

@FuzzyYellowBalls , is it possible to hang up a camera and film some of your matches?

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

It is possible, I would need to buy a gopro i guess, I mean I am kind of a procrastinator type so, big maybe.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

After all those years of video production, it seems funny you don't have a way of filming your match.

Buy a GoPro4 used off **** for $100
https://tinyurl.com/y673cgkp

I got a broom stick for $5

Then I got a pole mount like this
https://www.amazon.com/GoPro-Handlebar-Seatpost-Mount-Official/dp/B0014F5WIA

Then I got a hook and taped it to the broom stick.
Then I hang it from the cable that holds up curtain

Works great.
I just need to saw down the brooomstick so it fits in my bag.

Broomstick (Cut down)
Hook taped to end.
GoPro pole/handlebar mount

Hang it off the fence, or the curtain cable

Or you can mount it onto a racket!

Learned a brilliant way to record matches when there is a fence.
$5 solution!

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Cool setups, like them. A first I was scared yesterday when my scores were posted and my UTR didn't change. But, I thought maybe they do it overnight, and behold, moved up one whole UTR, hooray!

 

[J B]

Ok so couple of things.
1. Wouldn’t you be helping the younger player get better by playing him hard?
2. Are all UTR tournaments Full of kids?
3. The OP mentions multiple times about the parents watching so why are we even talking about the adult vs child.
4. I think the parents would like their kid to play someone that can hit will. With the price of lessons and such you just saved them 100s of dollars and gave their kid a new look

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

1. Yes, but the first tourney I just felt sorry for the smaller kids I played, hopefully won't encounter that again. My mindset the first UTR match I had was here I am playing this young kid and I don't want him to get a bad feeling about tennis since I know sometimes kids can quit something they would enjoy over one bad experience or say hate a subject in school because of one bad teacher. I wanted to give the little guy a victory and trust me he was overjoyed to pull out the win, he even gave me praise for my backhand and some tips on what I could do better next time to win. In the long run it was something I can't do again, but it felt good and was "cute".
2. Mostly, but "kids" are not in the higher UTR ratings just older high schoolers and college. Probably 15-20% adults
3. Not sure what you mean, I guess the kids being in an unsafe situation?
4. I hope so, I made sure to be overly complementary when the opponent hit a good shot and compliment hustle etc. Didn't celebrate any shots.

 

[J B]

I’m not sure how the one poster got concerned about kids and their safety given you mentioned a number of times the parents were there so safety and supervision was evident.
What level do you need to be at to avoid playing kids as in under 14? I have probably done the same thing you did unless the parents said crush him lol

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

That's a tough guess and I am being age-ist if that is a good word, in other words I, we are assuming all 14 year olds would be unworthy opponents, but in general, they are. I think UTR 6 is a good assumption, the competition should be good players that might be living with mom and dad, but have more developed skills physically and tennis wise. Plus they pass the eye test. I mean one opponent I beat in my first UTR was level 7.5 and got lumped in our group, he was the 1 out of 3 I didn't lose and he was 6 feet tall, so everything "looked" normal, the matchup seemed right even though we all know you don't have to be tall to be good, at least he looked like a matchup. Plus, he was good in reality.

 

[J B]

I wouldn’t say unworthy I’d say an adult playing a kid. Now justifying it by saying I’m helping him get better and having fun for me is one way.
I did get play a 12 year old hard and lost but this kid was beating 16 year olds from IMG and his parents wanted me to crush it on him

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Well, he must have been above UTR 6 or no?

 

[J B]

Yes I but I did let him in thinking he was going to be easy. He wasn’t. He went to the finals in an under 16 at IMG which is the end all be all academy. I think he was 8+ never asked but I think that’s the 16U rating if you are playing with the top Florida academies

Let me stress I was beat clean I might not have lost as bad if I hadn’t been thinking oh he is 12 I’ll go easy to start

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Ok, I know no one truly knows how this UTR thing works, but my score has gone down every day just a little bit since Sunday, so Monday it was lower and Tuesday a bit lower and now today again lower losing about .40 UTR points. I haven't posted a match since the Saturday tournament, I think my UTR has a leak, like a slowly going flat tire. Edit: I quickly glanced at my opponents, their ratings haven't changed and they haven't posted new matches.

 

[Max G.]

Ok, I know no one truly knows how this UTR thing works, but my score has gone down every day just a little bit since Sunday, so Monday it was lower and Tuesday a bit lower and now today again lower losing about .40 UTR points. I haven't posted a match since the Saturday tournament, I think my UTR has a leak, like a slowly going flat tire. Edit: I quickly glanced at my opponents, their ratings haven't changed and they haven't posted new matches.

/https://support.myutr.com/support/s...-understanding-the-algorithm-complete-summary gives a summary of how it works. Since old matches are weighted less, your old matches will count less and less and so your utr will change over time.

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Ok, I get that, but my latest matches are my greatest (rhymed) evidence of an increased UTR ability, it's going to go down now every single day forever without playing anymore when my oldest matches were the ones where i gave the match to the kids?

 

[5sets]

Ok, I get that, but my latest matches are my greatest (rhymed) evidence of an increased UTR ability, it's going to go down now every single day forever without playing anymore when my oldest matches were the ones where i gave the match to the kids?

Don’t fret. Some weeks it will gradually increase as well like your inflating a balloon. I’m not a mathematician but since it’s recalculated every night it not only takes into account you, but also your opponents ratings and their dropping off matches after 12 months.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Aha, good insight, didn't think of that last little factoid. Only fretting a little because it's going to drop me down a cluster, I think, for a tourney this weekend, yesterday I might have played in a higher group.

 

[5sets]

I would have loved to play Coco Gauff a few years ago at one of these events. I wonder if all the anti-UTR posters in here would consider that picking on a kid. I’d be lucky to get a few games off her when she was 13


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk