What would the rankings be if....

[coloskier]

If all the present courts and balls were the same as they were in 1990? That means speed, height of bounce, skidding, etc. I think the big hitters would jump above all the clay court specialists, but Fed would still stay at #1. Nadal would be a lot farther down, along with Davydenko, Murray, and Djokovic. Soderling, Del Potro, Roddick, and Cilic would be duking it out for #2. You would either have to have a huge serve, huge flat forehand, or good volleys. Constructing a point would mean that you better hit that big flat winner before the other player does. Just keeping the ball in play would be a recipe for disaster. Total power tennis domination.

The only reason this was not necessarily the case in 1990 is the developments in racket and string technology.

Now, I am not asking if you like that brand of tennis and I don't care if you like that brand of tennis. I am only asking what you think the rankings would be in this situation.

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

It was still tennis. So they wouldn't be that different from what they are today.

Remember that Nadal and Murray are also great counterpunchers, especially Murray, so they would fare pretty well with speed.

However, flat servers would definitely benefit from the extra speed of the courts.
The fast surfaces would benefit the players that serve flat, consistent on the first one, and would disadvantage the returners.
I don't think anyone would return the Soderling serve if the courts were really fast.

It's probably the fastest in the circuit, he also hits it all the time on the line, and that would help a lot.

So, yeah, I think he could be even higher in the rankings in a situation like that.
Roddick would still have some problems, his serve is tame now and his movement is always gonna give him problems.

 

[AndyArodRoddick]

It was still tennis. So they wouldn't be that different from what they are today.

Remember that Nadal and Murray are also great counterpunchers, especially Murray, so they would fare pretty well with speed.

However, flat servers would definitely benefit from the extra speed of the courts.
The fast surfaces would benefit the players that serve flat, consistent on the first one, and would disadvantage the returners.
I don't think anyone would return the Soderling serve if the courts were really fast.

It's probably the fastest in the circuit, he also hits it all the time on the line, and that would help a lot.

So, yeah, I think he could be even higher in the rankings in a situation like that.
Roddick would still have some problems, his serve is tame now and his movement is always gonna give him problems.

Yeah, right...söderling has the fastest serve..it isn't even in the top 5 man!! isner, querrey, verdasco, roddick, karlovic, dent - they all have faster serves..

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

Yeah, right...söderling has the fastest serve..it isn't even in the top 5 man!! isner, querrey, verdasco, roddick, karlovic, dent - they all have faster serves..

I saw Verdasco blasting a 142 mph serve in San Jose.

Soderling serves constantly in the 135 mph range.

Roddick, these days, barely hits near 135.
Karlovic is constantly around the 135 mark on his first. But he is not a factor because of his ground game, so I left him out.

As for the Isner serve, it's a mystery to me, I've yet to see big big numbers for it, although by the looks of it is beyond wild.

Do you have any RECENT numbers on the Roddick serve?

 

[Anaconda]

I saw Verdasco blasting a 142 mph serve in San Jose.

Soderling serves constantly in the 135 mph range.

Roddick, these days, barely hits near 135.
Karlovic is constantly around the 135 mark on his first. But he is not a factor because of his ground game, so I left him out.

As for the Isner serve, it's a mystery to me, I've yet to see big big numbers for it, although by the looks of it is beyond wild.

Do you have any RECENT numbers on the Roddick serve?

37 straight games unbroken against Fed.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Don't be silly. Roddick and Karlovic are the greatest servers of this era!

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Soderling would be world #1 (the one huge server who can play worth a damn unless you count delPo as one)

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

37 straight games unbroken against Fed.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Don't be silly. Roddick and Karlovic are the greatest servers of this era!

I KNOW his serve is consistent, he has the best second serve in the world for god's sake. I am aware of that.

But I was solely referring to the speed of serve and how it would affect the rankings in case of a change of surfaces.

Ever since he started working with Stefanki, the speed of his serve has gone lower and lower, but still maintaining good percentages.

 

[Anaconda]

I KNOW his serve is consistent, he has the best second serve in the world for god's sake. I am aware of that.

But I was solely referring to the speed of serve and how it would affect the rankings in case of a change of surfaces.

Ever since he started working with Stefanki, the speed of his serve has gone lower and lower, but still maintaining good percentages.

And if you're an observant tennis fan you would know he's serving better than his 03-05 seasons.

Who cares about speed. I'd rather 70% 135mph serves than 60% 140mph serves.

I see DjokovicGonzo2010 is overrating Soderling's and JMDP 1st serve!

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Soderling's 1st serve is incredible.... maybe not aces, but lots of service winners, always gets him in control of the point, and most of all, very, very consistent

 

[Anaconda]

Soderling's 1st serve is incredible.... maybe not aces, but lots of service winners, always gets him in control of the point, and most of all, very, very consistent

But is it better than Karlovic/Roddick/Isner's serve? No it isn't!

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

But is it better than Karlovic/Roddick/Isner's serve? No it isn't!

Roddick? I say yes. I was only ranking top 8 players, not top 8 overall

 

[rovex]

37 straight games unbroken against Fed.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Rankings/MatchFacts.aspx

Don't be silly. Roddick and Karlovic are the greatest servers of this era!

Goran had a better serve than Roddick.

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

And if you're an observant tennis fan you would know he's serving better than his 03-05 seasons.

Who cares about speed. I'd rather 70% 135mph serves than 60% 140mph serves.

I see DjokovicGonzo2010 is overrating Soderling's and JMDP 1st serve!

We'll see.

I think the loss in speed will dd him some harm, especially on slow hard courts like the near IW and Miami.

As for the Soderling serve, it's not overrated at all. Basically all of his first serves that go in are either aces or powerful serves followed by punishing forehands.

That guy almost hold up against DelPo in London last year, serving consistently all match. I can't think of anyone that could've done that.

 

[Anaconda]

Goran had a better serve than Roddick.

Well, can he be classed in this era? Obviously his 1st serve was awsome but he isn't really the current era is he.

 

[Anaconda]

Roddick? I say yes. I was only ranking top 8 players, not top 8 overall

No. Just no.

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

20-22 and 16-15 are Soderling-Roddick aces ratio in their 2 meetings. It is close. as i said.

 

[Anaconda]

20-22 and 16-15 are Soderling-Roddick aces ratio in their 2 meetings. It is close. as i said.

Ignorant much? Just look at the ATP website for full stats.

 

[djokovicgonzalez2010]

Ignorant much? Just look at the ATP website for full stats.

That is what I did. Soderling won both. 3 tbs in 4 sets lol

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

20-22 and 16-15 are Soderling-Roddick aces ratio in their 2 meetings. It is close. as i said.

But both are pretty poor returners. So it doesn't really matter how high the count was.

Basically, the way to think of it is this:

Which guy in the tour is it harder to break against besides Karlovic?

And if that doesn't conclude the discussion.
We can weight-in the factors:

-first serve - are they even approachable?
-first serve - consistency
-second - how returnable are they?
-second - winning percentages on 2nd serve
-gifts - double faults, dead serves(Murray-like)...

And so on...

 

[Jchurch]

Roddick has really taken a few cues from Federer in recent years. The most recent one being serving. Roddick use to just go out and bomb serves as hard as he could. The only problem was not even he knew exactly where they were going. He realized a 135 mph serve with placement is better than a 145 mph serve with relatively little placement. Even Federer can crank it to 135 or above, but he loses control. This is what really seperates Federer from the true top-tier big servers. He isn't able to generate as much pace/placement(these two together) as the others.

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

Roddick has really taken a few cues from Federer in recent years. The most recent one being serving. Roddick use to just go out and bomb serves as hard as he could. The only problem was not even he knew exactly where they were going. He realized a 135 mph serve with placement is better than a 145 mph serve with relatively little placement. Even Federer can crank it to 135 or above, but he loses control. This is what really seperates Federer from the true top-tier big servers. He isn't able to generate as much pace/placement(these two together) as the others.

True.

But Federer can hit a 200 km/h serve with some spin too. And that was exemplified in the Wimby final.

Roddick's blasting serves were the ones that gave him that aura of the best server around. Even if he only hit like 2 first serves per game. Those two were definitely going to be aces. So 2 free points from the start.

Now, it's way more difficult for him.

See the match against Cilic.

 

[Jchurch]

True.

But Federer can hit a 200 km/h serve with some spin too. And that was exemplified in the Wimby final.

Roddick's blasting serves were the ones that gave him that aura of the best server around. Even if he only hit like 2 first serves per game. Those two were definitely going to be aces. So 2 free points from the start.

Now, it's way more difficult for him.

See the match against Cilic.

He was injured in the match. Federer doesn't get as much spin on his serves as Roddick does. They are both great serves, but Federer's reactions also aide him out there. Roddick isn't as sharp on defense as Federer is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm7CvnI9Zk

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

He was injured in the match. Federer doesn't get as much spin on his serves as Roddick does. They are both great serves, but Federer's reactions also aide him out there. Roddick isn't as sharp on defense as Federer is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKm7CvnI9Zk

Ever notice how his serves down the corner are easily predictable?

I think that's Roger's success at Wimbledon pre-09 against him.
You can really spot some intention as far as angles go, even though his serve motion was quite brutal and fast years ago.

 

[mtommer]

Who cares about speed. I'd rather 70% 135mph serves than 60% 140mph serves.

Okay but what about 118 mph serve at 70% versus a 140 mph serve at 60%.

 

[Jchurch]

Ever notice how his serves down the corner are easily predictable?

I think that's Roger's success at Wimbledon pre-09 against him.
You can really spot some intention as far as angles go, even though his serve motion was quite brutal and fast years ago.

09 Wimbledon was the first time that Federer ever had trouble reading Roddick's serve. I really think the key to Federer's serve is his disguise. Most amazing disguise I have ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0zeXpaY18U

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

09 Wimbledon was the first time that Federer ever had trouble reading Roddick's serve. I really think the key to Federer's serve is his disguise. Most amazing disguise I have ever seen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0zeXpaY18U

It is phenomenal, I agree.

I've noticed his service is leaner these days. In the earlier days on his first serves, it would seem that he could actually break his back, it was beyond brutal, compared to what Roddick was doing.

Now, it's way more harmonizing.

 

[petetheileet]

Tsonga would have to be higher

big serve, big groundstrokes

and such an unbelievable pressence at the net!

 

[Li Ching Yuen]

Tsonga would have to be higher

big serve, big groundstrokes

and such an unbelievable pressence at the net!

Only if he remembered to come play the semifinals and finals of tournaments from time to time.