Why was Coetzer beating Graf in 1997?

[bluetrain4]

Amanda Coetzer finished with a 4-11 record vs. Graf, not bad at all. But, 3 of those wins came in 1997 at the AO, Berlin, and the FO. [And, Graf beat Coetzer in 1997 Strasbourg 4-6, 7-5, 7-6]. The Berlin match was a surprising beat down. I rewatched the 1997 AO match, and boy was that fun. Both players so fast and a lot of great points. Graf had her chance in the second set (she lost the first, but was up 5-3 in the second), but Coetzer came all the way back. And, I sure did forget how Coetzer could hit BIG! despite her small stature. Think of a better Cibulkova. [Looked like she used a LONG frame like Bartoli]

So, combine incredible foot speed to rundown plenty of Graf shots and some real offensive firepower and a pretty good competitive demeanor and I can totally see why Coetzer could gave her trouble at times (she didn't all the time). But, still, three times in such a short span?

Coetzer would have been even tougher if she could volley well. We were talking recently about how ASV had excellent volleys and net game, but often against Graf, Seles, had no way to get consistently get into the net safely and utilize it. Coetzer had the groundies to get in, but, from what I saw, generally looked not that comfortable at net. Some volleys that, in theory, she could have easily punched away, she played very tepidly. But, maybe it was just the clip i was watching.

And, as a total aside, what is it about Graf's forehand from an aesthetic perspective? I've always loved it and it's so recognizable. What's going on? It sort of looks like she takes it less out in front and closer to her side than a lot of others. But, this probably isn't even the case. It just looks like that. And, it sort of looks like she doesn't take the racquet back as early as a lot other players, but, again it may just be perception. Unique stroke.

 

[Moose Malloy]

I guess you forgot where Graf was at in '97. She didn't play much in '97 and many thought she may not return to tour after she withdrew from Wimbledon & USO.

The last few years of Graf's career were beset by injuries, particularly to her knees and back. She lost the World No. 1 ranking to Martina Hingis and failed to win a Grand Slam title for the first time in ten years in 1997. That year Graf lost in the 4th round of Australian open in straight sets 2–6, 5–7 to Amanda Coetzer.[28] After several months injury lay off, Graf returned to play in the German Open in Berlin in front of a home crowd and had the worst defeat of her career in the quarter final, when Amanda Coetzer beat her in just 56 minutes 6–0, 6–1.[28][29] In the French Open Graf was again beaten by Amanda Coetzer in straight sets 6–1, 6–4.[30] Graf then skipped Wimbledon and US Open due to injury

 

[boredone3456]

1. Coetzer was the type of player who could frustrate Steffi. She was a mix of sabatini and Vicario style wise and both of them could give Steffi trouble on a good day.

2. Graf was struggling with injuries...look at her results...from winning 3 majors each of the last 2 years to allowing hingis to almost win the Grand Slam...

 

[bluetrain4]

I guess you forgot where Graf was at in '97. She didn't play much in '97 and many thought she may not return to tour after she withdrew from Wimbledon & USO.

Fair enough, but all the matches occurred before the Wimbledon, USO withdrawals. I'm not saying Steffi was 100%, but obviously she was okay enough to play for the first half of the season. And, it's not like she was just showing up to tournaments and losing in the first round due to injury before she finally decided to withdraw later in the year. These matches against Coetzer were occurring in the later rounds of of tournaments, so Graf had already won multiple times in each of the 1997 tournaments where she met Coetzer. And, the AO match in particular, Graf appears to be in fairly good physical shape.

Again, I get that Graf may not have been at 100%, but I'm still surprised Coetzer could beat her three times and barely lose a fourth time, all within 5 months. I mean, I don't recall any other second tier players who maybe occasionally gave Steffi some trouble, but for the most part were dominated, suddenly win 3 of 4 matches just because Graf was less than 100%.

I'll repeat myself- that 1997 AO match was a blast to watch.

 

[Moose Malloy]

I'm not saying Steffi was 100%, but obviously she was okay enough to play for the first half of the season.

She only played 5 tournaments in 6 months. Berlin was her 1st event in 4 months. I'm surprised you forgot all this(also a bit surprised by your Maleeva thread, I imagine you've seen them play many times)

Graf's physical status was the tennis story of the 1st half of '97. That was why her winning the '99 French was considered an amazing comeback, everyone thought she was done with big titles after '97 and her less than stellar '98 (and to beat the player who most benefitted from her '97 struggles in Hingis in the final...what a story)

Google is good source for old articles, they can give you better answers to many of these questions than anyone here(just came across Coetzer's comments after Berlin & Roland Garros - "obviously Steffi is still struggling with injuries, fitness, confidence etc")

but I'm still surprised Coetzer could beat her three times and barely lose a fourth time, all within 5 months

Coetzer being in Graf's half of the draw in 4 of the only 5 tournaments she played that year is bit odd.

 

[bluetrain4]

She played 5 tournaments in 6 months. Strasbourg was her 1st event in 4 months. I'm surprised you forgot all this(also a bit surprised by your Maleeva thread, I imagine you've seen them play many times)

Graf's physical status was the tennis story of the 1st half of '97. That was why her winning the '99 French was considered an amazing comeback, everyone thought she was done with big titles after '97 and her less than stellar '98 (and to beat the player who most benefitted from her '97 struggles in Hingis in the final...what a story)

Google is good source for old articles, they can give you better answers to many of these questions than anyone here(just came across Coetzer's comments after Strasbourg & Roland Garros - "obviously Steffi is still struggling with injuries, fitness, confidence etc")

I really did forget.

The Maleeva thread was more about getting other peoples' impressions of their games than not having seen them play myself. I guess "how did the Maleevas play?" wasn't an apt thread title since I'd seen them, but it was just to get a discussion going.

 

[Djokovic2011]

All I know is it was a wonderful 5 month period! :smile:

 

[CEvertFan]

1. Coetzer was the type of player who could frustrate Steffi. She was a mix of sabatini and Vicario style wise and both of them could give Steffi trouble on a good day.

2. Graf was struggling with injuries...look at her results...from winning 3 majors each of the last 2 years to allowing hingis to almost win the Grand Slam...

This.

A near perfect combination of 1. and 2. gave Coetzer those wins.

 

[Gizo]

I guess that RG in 1997 was Coetzer's best opportunity to win a grand slam. She beat her big nemesis Martinez in the 4th round and then Graf in the quarters, and was the favourite to beat Majoli in the semis. However she narrowly lost 7-5 in the 3rd set, in a match where both players were incredibly nervous and were hitting error after error.

She would have faced a tired and in-pain Hingis in the final, although Hingis generally completely owned defensive grinders/counter-punchers during her career (she spanked ASV in the quarters that year) and Majoli played big babe power tennis to beat her in the final. So it's hard to imagine a player with a style like Coetzer ever being able to beat a prime Hingis in the latter stages of a grand slam.

Beating Graf in back to back slams is still a pretty notable feat though. The only other player I can think of who achieved that was Navratilova at Wimbledon and the US Open in 1987.

 

[bluetrain4]

I guess that RG in 1997 was Coetzer's best opportunity to win a grand slam. She beat her big nemesis Martinez in the 4th round and then Graf in the quarters, and was the favourite to beat Majoli in the semis. However she narrowly lost 7-5 in the 3rd set, in a match where both players were incredibly nervous and were hitting error after error.

She would have faced a tired and in-pain Hingis in the final, although Hingis generally completely owned defensive grinders/counter-punchers during her career (she spanked ASV in the quarters that year) and Majoli played big babe power tennis to beat her in the final. So it's hard to imagine a player with a style like Coetzer ever being able to beat a prime Hingis in the latter stages of a grand slam.

Beating Graf in back to back slams is still a pretty notable feat though. The only other player I can think of who achieved that was Navratilova at Wimbledon and the US Open in 1987.

It was a decent chance (better than she ever had before), but she had a pretty abysmal record vs. Hingis.

 

[staceyliving]

Graf was too injured to even be playing tennis in early 97. She was truly awful, the worst tennis she ever played, including when she was 13 and 14. That is all. Nothing to do with Coetzer who was too weak to even make a slam final, and went out early in both Wimbledon and U.S Open, even in the super weak field of that year. Coetzer is just a poorer version of Sanchez, so how could it possibly even be the matchup. Sanchez against normal Graf can only win once in awhile, and usually when she is playing her best and Graf is way off, so how could a poorer version of her like Coetzer barely lose games vs Graf any other way than she was too hurt to even play.

Coetzer's most impressive win over Graf by far was the 95 Canadian Open. The best tennis she ever played.

 

[Gizo]

It was a decent chance (better than she ever had before), but she had a pretty abysmal record vs. Hingis.

Yeah Hingis had a 10-2 record against Coetzer winning the last 8 matches in a row, plus a 18-2 record against ASV (with a 15 match winning streak at one point), and 11-3 record against Martinez. Plus 4 of her 7 defeats against those 3 players came in 1996 before she reached her peak. She was a pusher/grinder/counterpuncher/moonballer's worst nightmare. Even at RG on each occasion that Hingis lost there from 1997-2001, it was always against a player who was more aggressive and powerful than her. She would eat the defensive players for breakfast.

And Coetzer was so nervous in her semi-final, that she probably would have succumbed even more to her nerves in a hypothetical final as well.

 

[staceyliving]

Hingis was horrible in the final. She didn't make a dent on Majoli's serve, not even having a break point all match long. I believe she faced break points in all but 1 of her service games, and was just lucky Majoli choked so many away to make the scoreline less brutal.

I think Coetzer that day would have had a good chance. I also highly doubt she would have been as nervous as the semis, as nobody would be thinking she had much chance vs Hingis.

Hingis is lucky she didn't play Martinez on clay more often, as she has a losing record to her there and even lost in straight sets to a way past her prime Martinez in 2000. She owns Martinez anywhere else. In normal form she owns Coetzer anywhere.

 

[Gizo]

Well if Coetzer somehow moved a set and a break ahead for instance I wouldn't expect her to remain calm when the finishing line was in sight. It figures that Hingis struggled to make a dent on Majoli's serve and struggled on her own serve. She was facing a big hitter who was in great form on the day. Sometimes when that happens there isn't much that the less aggressive player can do. I think Hingis would certainly enjoy more opportunities facing the non-too daunting Coetzer serve.

Unless a player actually threw the kitchen sink and was aggressive against the prime Hingis in a big match, they would likely be in trouble.

Also Martinez was generally so much better in clay court warm-up tournaments compared the main event RG where she was so unreliable in big matches, that I wouldn't back her to beat a prime Hingis in a RG final or semi either, unless she suddenly started firing winners all the over court.

 

[staceyliving]

It is funny you mention the unimposing Coetzer serve. Majoli was never known for a big serve at all. She was known for her powerful groundstrokes, but never her serve. One year I remember her playing Seles in the Australian Open quarters and getting killed, winning only 3 or 4 games. All her game were from breaking Seles. She didn't hold serve a single game in the match, and her serve sucked really bad in that match. Granted that is just one match, but it wasn't much different than her usual serve. Maybe that French Open final she served way better than ever, I mostly remember her ground game being the best I ever saw it that day, and her using more angles than ever before, and don't remember her serve much. Even so it was pretty pathetic for Hingis to not even have a break point all match. Majoli did play extremely well, and Hingis would have had a hard time ever beating her that day anyway, but Hingis was definitely sluggish, not focused and concentrated right from the start, making a ton of sloppy errors and poor shot chocies.

You also mention Martinez underperforming at Roland Garros. However this is certainly true of Hingis as well. Hingis was favored to win the French all of 97, 98, 99, 2000, and 2001, and lost all 5 times. I would grade her performances for her standards in the defeats in 97 poor, 98 mediocre, 99 good tennis wise but mentally went cookoo, 2000 average, 2001 poor. Yeah Martinez underachieved at the French and should have won it at some point, but atleast she had some excuse. She primed in the toughest womens clay era in history with Graf, Seles, Sanchez, Sabatini, Pierce, Capriati, Majoli, Fernandez, Maleeva, and so many others. Had she primed when Hingis did instead there is a very good chance she would win atleast 1 French despite not playing as well at the French as other tournaments. Hingis primed in a much weaker clay era where nearly all those I mentioned were past their prime, and had the French title practically waiting for her each year, and still failed to win one. So in that comparision I favor Martinez comfortably.