Wrist position in take back
- Thread starter HunterST
- Start date
watungga
Professional
A prepared bent wrist on take back is very demanding to the wrist itself. You'll come across faulty swing when your wrist starts complaining. A relaxed wrist is not on bent position.
The whole point is not to think of your wrist at all, but the racquet take back itself. Coz when you start your forward swing, you will just PULL the handle of the racquet, like pulling a doorknob from behind. You're pulling the handle, which leaves the racquet head trailing on the start of your swing. This automatically bends your wrist, and you'll realize its in relaxed mood as you attempt to throw the racquet forward.
Smile and swing.
The whole point is not to think of your wrist at all, but the racquet take back itself. Coz when you start your forward swing, you will just PULL the handle of the racquet, like pulling a doorknob from behind. You're pulling the handle, which leaves the racquet head trailing on the start of your swing. This automatically bends your wrist, and you'll realize its in relaxed mood as you attempt to throw the racquet forward.
Smile and swing.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
great response! thanks.
Question becomes, WTA or ATP takeback of your wrist position.
WTA, it's laid back early as the arm is moving back.
ATP, it's lagging behind the forearm and elbow, to loop at the back like a service motion.
Or, maybe old school eastern vs new school SW forehand wrist positions.
WTA, it's laid back early as the arm is moving back.
ATP, it's lagging behind the forearm and elbow, to loop at the back like a service motion.
Or, maybe old school eastern vs new school SW forehand wrist positions.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Good point, Lee. I noticed that when I was looking at videos. Clijsters and Sharapova got the wrist laid back early while Tsonga and Federer had more of a lag.
TheCheese
Professional
Yeah, good point. WTA does seem to lay the wrist back very early. ATP basically lets the wrist lay back naturally as the racket lags behind.
Using Fed as model the wrist is flexed
The position that's important is later in the prep at the ptd. But point taken, Fed is a bit extended, not totally neutral. His grip is a the reason I think. Still, his wrist isn't tightly cocked back. It's still pretty relaxed by the time he's in ptd, so I think of it as more neutral.
eidolonshinobi
Professional
I think the ATP style really enforces the relaxed motion of the upcoming swing.
I know when I have my racquet up at takeback, I know my supporting hand (left) has some of the weight of the racquet by keeping it steadily upright.
I know when I have my racquet up at takeback, I know my supporting hand (left) has some of the weight of the racquet by keeping it steadily upright.
WildVolley
Legend
This is what has worked for me and I'd argue Federer basically does this. My extension is relaxed and just sort of allows the wrist to be cocked back and the racket head pointing up during the take back.
However, some players seem to stay more neutral and then allow the extension to be driven by the stroke. My issue with this is that it seemed to actually slow my prep phase when I attempted to hit this way. Murray seems to hit this way and there's a lot of obvious extension during the layback of the forward swing. It seems Nadal has a more complex stroke and he goes from extension to almost neutral and then back to extension.
WildVolley
Legend
Federer doesn't have extension on the take-back...
Looks neutral to me...
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Looks like slight extension to me in all three pictures, so I guess we slightly disagree.
But I concur that it is close to neutral. In any case, the extension becomes much more pronounced during the forward swing.
HunterST
Hall of Fame
Something to consider
Like Lee pointed out, WTA lays it back almost right away and ATP waits.
WTA players, while still worlds better than rec players, are closer to our ability level than ATP players. Could that mean an immediate lay back makes for a stroke that is easier to replicate?
Like Lee pointed out, WTA lays it back almost right away and ATP waits.
WTA players, while still worlds better than rec players, are closer to our ability level than ATP players. Could that mean an immediate lay back makes for a stroke that is easier to replicate?
My example of WTA vs ATP was a joke.
Connors and McEnroe, as well as lots of old timers, used "WTA" style takeback.
So instead of WTA/ATP, maybe old school vs new school?
Stosur is new school.
As for what is harder? Depends if you like to swing away and live with mishits, or do you need precision of swing from start to finish?
Connors and McEnroe, as well as lots of old timers, used "WTA" style takeback.
So instead of WTA/ATP, maybe old school vs new school?
Stosur is new school.
As for what is harder? Depends if you like to swing away and live with mishits, or do you need precision of swing from start to finish?
Lukhas
Legend
It's also because most women are more flexible than men. Many WTA players have even lower racquet drop than Federer at serve, should we copy it? Women and men tennis is different, because men and women have different bodies and therefore fight with different weapons.
I don't see it as a ATP vs WTA thing, for me its two different techniques: take back with racquet vertically or take back with racquet horizontally.
With racquet vertically wrist is extended
With racquet horizontally wrist is neutral
Who uses horizontal take back? Agassi
Who uses vertical take back? Nadal
With racquet vertically wrist is extended
With racquet horizontally wrist is neutral
Who uses horizontal take back? Agassi
Who uses vertical take back? Nadal
watungga
Professional
If we all do a relaxed wrist and letting the forearm start the acceleration out front, either ATP or WTA, the start of the racquet whip are all the same. We will hear that wonderful pop sound from our racquet.
It was just too hard for me to maintain a relaxed wrist when the ball is coming in too fast, or when my legs not moving well. Watching Fed made me think that prepping anticipation would help me relax my wrist.
It was just too hard for me to maintain a relaxed wrist when the ball is coming in too fast, or when my legs not moving well. Watching Fed made me think that prepping anticipation would help me relax my wrist.
mightyrick
Legend
I'm not sure of anybody who lays back the wrist on takeback. Doesn't everybody just takeback and relax the wrist?
If you are referring to the stretch-shortening cycle mentioned earlier, most of the hard-hitting professionals (both WTA and ATP) do this. The men's SSC is much more pronounced than the women's because of a couple things: 1) how much faster the men swing their arm, 2) The women tend to arm the ball a lot more than men.
But here's some WTA players doing it:
Justine Henin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBioEMX2IdM
Sam Stosur : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_mNZGq8TfE
Ana Ivanovic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxUHk4VYBIg
Maria Kirilenko: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VtEV3X-9Yo
Relinquis
Hall of Fame
Not referring to SSC, rather posters saying that WTAs have their wrists laid back at takeback... dunno if they mean wrist extension or supination... just asking for evidence to their assertion.
Guys guys, don't you guys ever watch CHRIS EVERTS?
A whole generation of players is using that same takeback....while two handed still, the hitting wrist lays back and leads the takeback with the TIP of the racket.....not the elbow like lots of ATP pros. While this usually promotes a lower, less loopy stroke at the back, it is evident with the wrist laid back, almost like FEDERER.
A whole generation of players is using that same takeback....while two handed still, the hitting wrist lays back and leads the takeback with the TIP of the racket.....not the elbow like lots of ATP pros. While this usually promotes a lower, less loopy stroke at the back, it is evident with the wrist laid back, almost like FEDERER.
Chris Evert in full flow:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9WOcEIjGJQ
Way more elegant than most WTA and ATP players i have to say.
But like most WTA players, including Ivanovic and Kirilenko, she doesn't have a ptd motion involved because the wrist get laid back early (and they don't lead the takeback with the elbow).
And patting the dog is essential for an effective ssc, as i have understood.
But what the heck, 99 % of us would wish we could hit a FH like Chris does in the video. Probably she's more of a cat person..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9WOcEIjGJQ
Way more elegant than most WTA and ATP players i have to say.
But like most WTA players, including Ivanovic and Kirilenko, she doesn't have a ptd motion involved because the wrist get laid back early (and they don't lead the takeback with the elbow).
And patting the dog is essential for an effective ssc, as i have understood.
But what the heck, 99 % of us would wish we could hit a FH like Chris does in the video. Probably she's more of a cat person..
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mightyrick
Legend
I was too busy looking at Evert in that video to even notice anything else. Did she say anything or demonstrate anything important?
Finally I understand the ATP vs WTA in the take back.
Anticipate in the take back the wrist extension that could occur later in the swing to contact.
One thing is slightly extending your wrist in the take back so the racquet maintains a vertical position, which was what I thought was being discussed.
Another is extending your wrist in the take back so you maintain the same wrist/racquet relationship throughout the entire motion.
Agree its a valid point, so my mistake for not understanding what was being discussed. Sorry.
