Greater YEC player: Djokovic vs Federer

Who is greater YEC player?

  • Total voters
    86
Enceladus

Enceladus

Legend
Novak+Djokovic+Serbia+beat+Roger+Federer+Switzerland+uNQWxHIA5mhx.jpg

Both have 6 titles, sharing the YEC record. Both have won the YEC at three different venues, both players gained YEC titles in Shanghai and London, Fed in Houston and Nole in Turin. Who is the bigger player in this event now? Djoker can boast a streak of 4 titles from 2012-2015, which no one else in YEC history could do, Fed couldn't even complete a hat trick. Fed, on the other hand, has more final appearances - 10, Djoker 8, and with one exception (2008) he advanced from the group in all of his appearances. Their mutual H2H on YEC is tied 3-3.
 
tennis_error

tennis_error

Professional
Novak, simply because he's a better and more complete player, proved. Federer is right there on this tournament. Hope Novak will seal the deal next years winning one more...
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
Looking at the list of players defeated, easily Federer.

Finals alone we have:
Djokovic:
2008: Davydenko
2012: Federer
2013: Nadal
2014: Walkover
2015: Federer
2022: Ruud

Federer:
2003: Agassi
2004: Hewitt
2006: Blake
2007: Ferrer
2010: Nadal
2011: Tsonga

Federer went 5-0 in 5 of his 6 WTF titles. (2007) Loss to Gonzales
Djokovic went 5-0 in 4 of his 6 WTF titles. (2008 & 2015). Losses to Tsonga & Federer)

Players defeated in their most recent WTF Title:

Djokovic 2022:
Rublev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Fritz, Ruud

Federer 2011:
Nadal (bagelled), Tsonga, Fish, Ferrer, Tsonga

Just Federer all the way.
 
T

thrust

Legend
Aussie Darcy said:
Looking at the list of players defeated, easily Federer.

Finals alone we have:
Djokovic:
2008: Davydenko
2012: Federer
2013: Nadal
2014: Walkover
2015: Federer
2022: Ruud

Federer:
2003: Agassi
2004: Hewitt
2006: Blake
2007: Ferrer
2010: Nadal
2011: Tsonga

Federer went 5-0 in 5 of his 6 WTF titles. (2007) Loss to Gonzales
Djokovic went 5-0 in 4 of his 6 WTF titles. (2008 & 2015). Losses to Tsonga & Federer)

Players defeated in their most recent WTF Title:

Djokovic 2022:
Rublev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Fritz, Ruud

Federer 2011:
Nadal (bagelled), Tsonga, Fish, Ferrer, Tsonga

Just Federer all the way.
Click to expand...
NONSENSE! Overall Novak beat tougher competition, including Federer in two finals, than Roger has.
 
B

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
Aussie Darcy said:
Looking at the list of players defeated, easily Federer.

Finals alone we have:
Djokovic:
2008: Davydenko
2012: Federer
2013: Nadal
2014: Walkover
2015: Federer
2022: Ruud

Federer:
2003: Agassi
2004: Hewitt
2006: Blake
2007: Ferrer
2010: Nadal
2011: Tsonga

Federer went 5-0 in 5 of his 6 WTF titles. (2007) Loss to Gonzales
Djokovic went 5-0 in 4 of his 6 WTF titles. (2008 & 2015). Losses to Tsonga & Federer)

Players defeated in their most recent WTF Title:

Djokovic 2022:
Rublev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Fritz, Ruud

Federer 2011:
Nadal (bagelled), Tsonga, Fish, Ferrer, Tsonga

Just Federer all the way.
Click to expand...
Where exactly do you read out of the lists you posted, that Federer “easily” had the tougher opponents? Djokovic beat Federer twice for a start. Your “players defeated in their most recent title” is a completely arbitrary metric, you could as well mention players defeated in any other edition they won. Your hate for Djokovic prevents you from being objective here.
 
B

BorgTheGOAT

Legend
ChrisRF said:
Yeah, of course. Sampras and Becker, who both NEVER won this tournament undefeated and have overall less (or equal) titles than Federer, Djokovic and Lendl, are both above all of them. :-D
Click to expand...
Well maybe if we are talking peak level. Since the thread says “greater player” it is of course bs to say that Sampras or let alone Becker are ahead of Fedovic (or even Lendl).
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
I am using the same rule I use in the slams, that when the slam count is equal, then the player with more finals has the edge.

Both are as great as each other at YEC now, just that Federer is a fractionally better performer there due to the additional finals....and in YEC having finals mean a lot, because you are getting to the finals by beating top 10 players only, no easy draws.
 
T

Tennfan123

Legend
Djokovic beat a well past his best Federer in those finals.
Djokovic was nowhere to be seen while Federer was in his prime. 2008 was a good one for him because Federer wasn't in the final.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
Doesn't matter. Both great champions.

Does everything need to be proving one is better than the other?
 
tennis_error

tennis_error

Professional
Aussie Darcy said:
Looking at the list of players defeated, easily Federer.

Finals alone we have:
Djokovic:
2008: Davydenko
2012: Federer
2013: Nadal
2014: Walkover
2015: Federer
2022: Ruud

Federer:
2003: Agassi
2004: Hewitt
2006: Blake
2007: Ferrer
2010: Nadal
2011: Tsonga

Federer went 5-0 in 5 of his 6 WTF titles. (2007) Loss to Gonzales
Djokovic went 5-0 in 4 of his 6 WTF titles. (2008 & 2015). Losses to Tsonga & Federer)

Players defeated in their most recent WTF Title:

Djokovic 2022:
Rublev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Fritz, Ruud

Federer 2011:
Nadal (bagelled), Tsonga, Fish, Ferrer, Tsonga

Just Federer all the way.
Click to expand...
This is insane, and I mean INSANE post... She says Fed had tougher competition and lists finals where Novak had overwhelmingly tougher competition... Or is she just trolling?
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

Bionic Poster
tennis_error said:
This is insane, and I mean INSANE post... She says Fed had tougher competition and lists finals where Novak had overwhelmingly tougher competition... Or is she just trolling?
Click to expand...
Yes Walkover and Ruud and Davydenko are so much tougher than Agassi and Nadal. I mean how could he even defeat Walkover? That is SO BRUTAL. Defeating walkover, so tough.
 
SamprasisGOAT

SamprasisGOAT

Hall of Fame
ChrisRF said:
Yeah, of course. Sampras and Becker, who both NEVER won this tournament undefeated and have overall less (or equal) titles than Federer, Djokovic and Lendl, are both above all of them. :-D
Click to expand...
The numbers are all close enough. Tennis to people like you is all about numbers on a screen and to you whoever has the most numbers is the best.

But to real tennis fans like me tennis is more than numbers on a screen. Becker kicks Djokovic Lendl and Federer prime for prime at YEC.
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
SamprasisGOAT said:
The numbers are all close enough. Tennis to people like you is all about numbers on a screen and to you whoever has the most numbers is the best.

But to real tennis fans like me tennis is more than numbers on a screen. Becker kicks Djokovic Lendl and Federer prime for prime at YEC.
Click to expand...
Exho 2007 Fed vs Pete what it tells us?
 
Rafa4LifeEver

Rafa4LifeEver

G.O.A.T.
Enceladus said:
Novak+Djokovic+Serbia+beat+Roger+Federer+Switzerland+uNQWxHIA5mhx.jpg

Both have 6 titles, sharing the YEC record. Both have won the YEC at three different venues, both players gained YEC titles in Shanghai and London, Fed in Houston and Nole in Turin. Who is the bigger player in this event now? Djoker can boast a streak of 4 titles from 2012-2015, which no one else in YEC history could do, Fed couldn't even complete a hat trick. Fed, on the other hand, has more final appearances - 10, Djoker 8, and with one exception (2008) he advanced from the group in all of his appearances. Their mutual H2H on YEC is tied 3-3.
Click to expand...
Federer.
There's a difference between facing 2012-14-15 Djokovic & facing Zverev-Thiem-Ruud.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
Mainad said:
Well, if Walkover didn't want to play that's not Novak's fault is it?
Click to expand...
Fed's most brilliant move, losing by a walkover accomplished (at least) each of the following:

  1. ducked a probable loss to Novak
  2. preserved energy for Davis Cup
  3. proved how important the ATP Finals are
  4. enabled him to win future debates on TTW by extremely logical posters
  5. ...(In truth, I don't know --it's very close.)
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
Aussie Darcy said:
Looking at the list of players defeated, easily Federer.

Finals alone we have:
Djokovic:
2008: Davydenko
2012: Federer
2013: Nadal
2014: Walkover
2015: Federer
2022: Ruud

Federer:
2003: Agassi
2004: Hewitt
2006: Blake
2007: Ferrer
2010: Nadal
2011: Tsonga

Federer went 5-0 in 5 of his 6 WTF titles. (2007) Loss to Gonzales
Djokovic went 5-0 in 4 of his 6 WTF titles. (2008 & 2015). Losses to Tsonga & Federer)

Players defeated in their most recent WTF Title:

Djokovic 2022:
Rublev, Medvedev, Tsitsipas, Fritz, Ruud

Federer 2011:
Nadal (bagelled), Tsonga, Fish, Ferrer, Tsonga

Just Federer all the way.
Click to expand...
I don't care that much, as it's about even for me.
Now, there may be a case for Federer, but this ain't it.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
RaulRamirez said:
Fed's most brilliant move, losing by a walkover accomplished (at least) each of the following:

  1. ducked a probable loss to Novak
  2. preserved energy for Davis Cup
  3. proved how important the ATP Finals are
  4. enabled him to win future debates on TTW by extremely logical posters
  5. ...(In truth, I don't know --it's very close.)
Click to expand...

I suspect points 1 & 2 are the salient factors here.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
thrust said:
NONSENSE! Overall Novak beat tougher competition, including Federer in two finals, than Roger has.
Click to expand...

Firstly both Federer and Djokovic have beaten each other 3 times at the YEC, inspite of fed being physically disadvantaged 5 of the 6 times and other one being neutral (2010)

Maybe get ABCs right before proclaiming your opinions "nonsense" with a drum.

Oh and Federer had better competition at the YEC with Agassi, Safin, Hewitt, Nalby etc.
Even Nadal played better vs Fed in 06/10 than in 13/15 vs djoko.
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
RaulRamirez said:
Fed's most brilliant move, losing by a walkover accomplished (at least) each of the following:

  1. ducked a probable loss to Novak
  2. preserved energy for Davis Cup
  3. proved how important the ATP Finals are
  4. enabled him to win future debates on TTW by extremely logical posters
  5. ...(In truth, I don't know --it's very close.)
Click to expand...

Mainad said:
I suspect points 1 & 2 are the salient factors here.
Click to expand...

or maybe, just maybe if you actually watched, you'd see Fed got injured towards ending stages of 3rd set vs Wawa in the semi and hence couldn't play the final.
Even the first DC match vs Monfils, Fed wasn't recovered fully and lost badly. Losing to Monfils is not something alarming per se, but Fed got beaten badly.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
abmk said:
or maybe, just maybe if you actually watched, you'd see Fed got injured towards ending stages of 3rd set vs Wawa in the semi and hence couldn't play the final.
Even the first DC match vs Monfils, Fed wasn't recovered fully and lost badly. Losing to Monfils is not something alarming per se, but Fed got beaten badly.
Click to expand...
My post was a bit irreverent there (directed at who Mainad was replying to) but I would say this (mostly agreeing with you).

Roger deserves the benefit of the doubt, as his record of always showing up and never defaulting is truly impressive.
I also don't think players of that high calibre and competitiveness duck anybody. The timing, though, and favoring Davis Cup fitness over winning in the final (even if not 100%), does cast a bit of a dampener on the ATP Finals.
 
tennis_error

tennis_error

Professional
Aussie Darcy said:
Yes Walkover and Ruud and Davydenko are so much tougher than Agassi and Nadal. I mean how could he even defeat Walkover? That is SO BRUTAL. Defeating walkover, so tough.
Click to expand...
Walkover? Sweater case? Most famous chickening in the history of the game? LOL...
Yet, you call chicken WTF goat... Another LOL...
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
RaulRamirez said:
My post was a bit irreverent there (directed at who Mainad was replying to) but I would say this (mostly agreeing with you).

Roger deserves the benefit of the doubt, as his record of always showing up and never defaulting is truly impressive.
I also don't think players of that high calibre and competitiveness duck anybody. The timing, though, and favoring Davis Cup fitness over winning in the final (even if not 100%), does cast a bit of a dampener on the ATP Finals.
Click to expand...

DC was like 4 days later and he got beaten by Monfils - not being 100%.
I'm sure if Fed could, he'd have played the YEC final.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
abmk said:
or maybe, just maybe if you actually watched, you'd see Fed got injured towards ending stages of 3rd set vs Wawa in the semi and hence couldn't play the final.
Even the first DC match vs Monfils, Fed wasn't recovered fully and lost badly. Losing to Monfils is not something alarming per se, but Fed got beaten badly.
Click to expand...

I did watch the match and didn't notice Fed sustain an injury (he still won it) which doesn't mean he didn't of course. My impression was that he wanted to make sure he was fully fit for the Davis Cup final the following week and I wasn't the only one. Many others seemed surprised by his withdrawal and drew the same conclusion.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
Mainad said:
I did watch the match and didn't notice Fed sustain an injury (he still won it) which doesn't mean he didn't of course. My impression was that he wanted to make sure he was fully fit for the Davis Cup final the following week and I wasn't the only one. Many others seemed surprised by his withdrawal and drew the same conclusion.
Click to expand...
At TTW, Federer is never injured in his life.

He's a human cyborg
 
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
Mainad said:
I did watch the match and didn't notice Fed sustain an injury (he still won it) which doesn't mean he didn't of course. My impression was that he wanted to make sure he was fully fit for the Davis Cup final the following week and I wasn't the only one. Many others seemed surprised by his withdrawal and drew the same conclusion.
Click to expand...

you didn't pay 100% attention then.
my statement stands. If Fed hadn't recovered enough that he got beat badly by Monfils 4-5 days later in DC, how could Fed have played the YEC final the next day?
If he could have, Fed would've played the YEC final.
 
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