2015 Federer > 2017 Federer

[BrokenGears]

Didn't happen to 2009 Fed, so 2015 can't be on the same level.

And we know clay is Fed's weakest surface. An upset there is more expected than on HC or grass.

You want a 2009 upset? Ok, Fed lost to Tsonga early in Montreal.

Damn, I thought Peak Federer was second only to Nadal on clay during those years...And he beat Kuerten earlier in Rome as well. Upsets happen to anyone

 

[Noleberic123]

In fairness, he didn't play Simon this year

But he played Medvedev who was using a similar tactic

 

[KINGROGER]

You want a 2009 upset? Ok, Fed lost to Tsonga early in Montreal.

Damn, I thought Peak Federer was second only to Nadal on clay during those years...And he beat Kuerten earlier in Rome as well. Upsets happen to anyone

Tsonga was a tight 3 setter, dangerous player.

2015 Fed was losing to likes of Seppi and Kyrgios LOL.

 

[MeatTornado]

Fortunately, you can look at those stats as well to draw a better picture

Only thing that is nonsense are subjective opinions about who beats who with no proof except maybe “ my eyes “

Ye sorry, stats are the only objective way too analyze stats and stats can cover almost every factor of tennis

The eye factor is incredibly important. Instead of looking at the box scores, looking at the matches in front of you will prevent disappointments like this year's final for example, because anyone actually watching would know that this wasn't "the best hard court tennis Rafa has ever played." Despite the stat line that would show you his not losing a set, serving faster, winning more free points and spending less time on court.

But of course, anyone who correctly predicted the final was just full of subjective nonsense. Thank god we have stats to let us in on the real truth

 

[BrokenGears]

The eye factor is incredibly important. Instead of looking at the box scores, looking at the matches in front of you will prevent disappointments like this year's final for example, because anyone actually watching would know that this wasn't "the best hard court tennis Rafa has ever played." Despite the stat line that would show you his not losing a set, serving faster, winning more free points and spending less time on court.

But of course, anyone who correctly predicted the final was just full of subjective nonsense. Thank god we have stats to let us in on the real truth

Now you’re saying something completely different from what you were saying before, whatever tho

 

[BrokenGears]

Tsonga was a tight 3 setter, dangerous player.

2015 Fed was losing to likes of Seppi and Kyrgios LOL.

Still an upset dude

 

[KINGROGER]

Still an upset dude

Upsets happened to Federer a lot more frequently post 2009 at slams, especially post 2012. Cilic, Gulbis, Seppi, Wawrinka, Raonic, losing all matches to Djokovic when previously they were almost even at slams in 2011/2012.

 

[mike danny]

But he played Medvedev who was using a similar tactic

Medvedev is still not on Simon's level though.

 

[BrokenGears]

Upsets happened to Federer a lot more frequently post 2009 at slams, especially post 2012. Cilic, Gulbis, Seppi, Wawrinka, Raonic, losing all matches to Djokovic when previously they were almost even at slams in 2011/2012.

He still got upset before 2010 several times, just because he got upset more in his latter years doesn’t mean all of his upsets in his earlier years are gone

Really, once again you’re making excuses. Classic Fed fan tactic.

 

[NatF]

Upsets happen. RG 2004 is proof even peak Federer can have off days

lol at comparing Seppi to Kuerten, not to mention HC to clay for Federer

 

[mike danny]

He still got upset before 2010 several times, just because he got upset more in his latter years doesn’t mean all of his upsets in his earlier years are gone

Really, once again you’re making excuses. Classic Fed fan tactic.

Really? Because I count only one upset: RG 2004. And that wasn't even on HC or grass.

 

[mike danny]

You want a 2009 upset? Ok, Fed lost to Tsonga early in Montreal.

Damn, I thought Peak Federer was second only to Nadal on clay during those years...And he beat Kuerten earlier in Rome as well. Upsets happen to anyone

He didn't beat Kuerten earlier in Rome.

And I was talking about GS upsets here. And also not on clay.

 

[BrokenGears]

lol at comparing Seppi to Kuerten, not to mention HC to clay for Federer

Lol because Kuerten was literally coming back from injury and was old. He lost next round or the quarters if I recall

Really? Because I count only one upset: RG 2004. And that wasn't even on HC or grass.

He didn't beat Kuerten earlier in Rome.

And I was talking about GS upsets here. And also not on clay.

Lost to Djokovic and Murray several times before they were at a good level and he was peak. Yes, those were also upsets. They may not be GS loses, but they're still upsets.

 

[NatF]

Lol because Kuerten was literally coming back from injury and was old. He lost next round or the quarters if I recall

Kuerten had been injured towards the end of 2001, he never found top form again - but he wasn't returning from injury per say as far as I'm aware, he was also 28 - is that old in your opinion?

He lost in the QF to Nalbandian but the guy was an ATG on clay who rolled back the years to defeat a less than sharp Federer on his worst surface, not fricking Andreas Seppi

 

[BrokenGears]

Kuerten had been injured towards the end of 2001, he never found top form again - but he wasn't returning from injury per say as far as I'm aware, he was also 28 - is that old in your opinion?

He lost in the QF to Nalbandian but the guy was an ATG on clay who rolled back the years to defeat a less than sharp Federer on his worst surface, not fricking Andreas Seppi

That what I meant, his hip was never the same. I'm wrong about the old part tho

I thought Fed fans were the same people who thought form was the most important thing and name doesn't matter? Or more hypocrisy?

 

[Nadal_Django]

Even a half dead, hipless, way past his prime Kuerten routined pretty easily Federer that day. That should tell you everything about their clay level Peak for Peak.

 

[NatF]

That what I meant, his hip was never the same. I'm wrong about the old part tho

I thought Fed fans were the same people who thought form was the most important thing and name doesn't matter? Or more hypocrisy?

Did you miss the part where I said Kuerten rolled back the years? He played his best match in years. Posters like you shouldn't talk about hypocrisy.

Seppi played a good match but has no business beating Federer in slam, especially one who was apparently at peak level in 2015 according to clowns'ish Djokovic fans...

 

[BrokenGears]

Did you miss the part where I said Kuerten rolled back the years? He played his best match in years. Posters like you shouldn't talk about hypocrisy. Fed fans in general shouldn’t talk about hypocrisy lol...

Seppi played a good match but has no business beating Federer in slam, especially one who was apparently at peak level in 2015 according to clowns'ish Djokovic fans...

It doesn’t matter if he “ rolled backed the years “ Federer was still peak and was the favorite to beat Kuerten. He should have beat him and he didn’t. It doesn’t somehow excuse Federer of the loss because Kuerten was playing good

He played a good match and outplayed Federer, just like how Kuerten outplayed Federer. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[NatF]

It doesn’t matter if he “ rolled backed the years “ Federer was still peak and was the favorite to beat Kuerten. He should have beat him and he didn’t. It doesn’t somehow excuse Federer of the loss because Kuerten was playing good

He played a good match and outplayed Federer, just like how Kuerten outplayed Federer. Is that so hard to understand?

What's so hard to understand about a loss to that Kuerten not being nearly as bad of a loss as the one to Seppi?

That are degree's of upset yes?

 

[Raining hopes]

He still got upset before 2010 several times, just because he got upset more in his latter years doesn’t mean all of his upsets in his earlier years are gone

Really, once again you’re making excuses. Classic Fed fan tactic.

Thank you for finally making me quit . I just can't tolerate this forum anymore.

 

[BrokenGears]

What's so hard to understand about a loss to that Kuerten not being nearly as bad of a loss as the one to Seppi?

That are degree's of upset yes?

He lost third round in AO before RG. He obviously wasn’t the same player as before. Yes, maybe it as not as bad as Seppi's upset sincee there are levels of upsets but Kuerten’s 2004 wasn’t not good at all and it doesn't excuse Fed's loss

 

[BrokenGears]

Thank you for finally making me quit . I just can't tolerate this forum anymore.

Ok?

 

[NatF]

He lost third round in AO before RG. He obviously wasn’t the same player as before. Yes, maybe it as not as bad as Seppi's upset sincee there are levels of upsets but Kuerten’s 2004 wasn’t not good at all and it doesn't excuse Fed's loss

Who's excusing it? No way should Fed have lost in straights at least. I suppose you could argue it was an even worse loss based on Federer being peak - and considering 2015 Fed clearly wasn't...

 

[KINGROGER]

He still got upset before 2010 several times, just because he got upset more in his latter years doesn’t mean all of his upsets in his earlier years are gone

Really, once again you’re making excuses. Classic Fed fan tactic.

Between 04-09 who upset him? Kuerten the 3 time RG winner who rolled back the years? Del Potro who was GOATing and needed 5 sets?

Doesn’t compare to the kind of players he lost to post 2010 AO.

 

[Pheasant]

Between 04-09 who upset him? Kuerten the 3 time RG winner who rolled back the years? Del Potro who was GOATing and needed 5 sets?

Doesn’t compare to the kind of players he lost to post 2010 AO.

It's isn't even in the same ball park.

2013 Wimbledon: Federer lost to Stakhovsky in the 2nd round, who then lost to Melzer in the next round, who then lost to Janowicz in the next round
2013 USO: Federer was stomped in straight sets to Robredo in the 4th round, who then was stomped in straight sets by Nadal in the very next round.
2015 AO: Federer lost Seppi in 4 sets in the 3rd round, who then lost to Kyrgios in the next round, who then got smoked by Murray in straight sets in the next round.

2004-2009 Fed. Missed 4 finals and 1 semi during this 6 year span.
2010-2015 Fed. Missed 18 finals and 10 semis during this 6 year span.

Longest streaks:
2004-2009: 10 consecutive slam finals, 22 consecutive slam semis
2010-2015: 2 consecutive slam finals and 4 consecutive slam semis.


It wasn't Nadal and Djoker that prevented Fed from missing all of those slam semis.

As far as Kuerten goes, that guy was an absolute beast on clay when he was on. Kuerten on clay reminds me a lot of Safin on hard courts. Both players could slump badly. But when they were on, they were extremely dangerous. And Kuerten's game was beautiful on clay. His weakest shot by far was his serve, which was in the low 120's.

 

[BrokenGears]

Between 04-09 who upset him? Kuerten the 3 time RG winner who rolled back the years? Del Potro who was GOATing and needed 5 sets?

Doesn’t compare to the kind of players he lost to post 2010 AO.

He was privy to many upsets in masters. Once again, excuses

 

[NBP]

2015 fEdErEr >>> 2017 FeDeReR

 

[Jonas78]

Meeh... Not hard to see OPs mission here.

2015-Federer would probably win a few slams in 2017.

 

[KINGROGER]

He was privy to many upsets in masters. Once again, excuses

I’m talking about slams lol. What excuses?

 

[Noleberic123]

Between 04-09 who upset him? Kuerten the 3 time RG winner who rolled back the years? Del Potro who was GOATing and needed 5 sets?

Doesn’t compare to the kind of players he lost to post 2010 AO.

Depends. Losing to Djokovic was an upset at the time.

 

[DSH]

the thing is with djokovic you have to expect a lot of return of serve and just for that, it's already very frustrating to play against him.
if you barely have a percentage of 60% of first services that is not sufficient for the advantaged student of andre agassi.

 

[tennis_pro]

When Federer was bagged by many of his fans to retire, I predicted that he is going further to improve and be a genuine contender. While many Federer fans were crying that he is old I said that he is not, that he plays better than ever and that only thing required was Djokovic out of his way. That is what happened. Federer was able to beat Nadal 5 times in a row and win 3GS. Many Federer's fans on this forum own me an apology including abmk.

ok

100% right