2020 ATP Sudden Death League: ROME

[Boozyuzi]

Welcome to the 9th event of the 2020 ATP Sudden Death League season: ROME

Play starts on Monday 14th September

2020 ATP SDL - LEAGUE FILE

Rules of the game:

1. It's a knock out-system: if the player you picked wins, you're through to the next round. If he loses, you're out.

2. You can pick a player only ONCE. Obviously it's important to make smart choices in order to get far. If you have no picks remaining, you're eliminated from the competition.

3. You can't pick a player from a match that has started already.

4. You cannot advance to the next round via a walkover since it is hard to know exactly when someone announced they were pulling out HOWEVER this rule does not apply once you reach the semifinals

5. As you cannot win a match by a walkover it is highly advised that you make a back-up pick to your main pick. Your pick and back up cannot be from the same match. If so, back up will be invalidated.

6. If the player you picked retires during the match, you're out. If he retires before the match, your back-up pick will be used unless you change your pick before your back up match begins.

7. NEVER edit your pick. If you want to change your pick, please quote your old pick and choose a new player. Edited posts will not be taken into consideration.

We will be picking 6 pick's for this tournament. 1 pick per round.

POINTS FOR THIS TOURNAMENT -

1 correct pick: 50 points
2 correct picks: 120
3 correct picks: 220
4 correct picks: 360
5 correct picks: 600
6 correct picks: 1000
SAVE PICKS FOR 2020

@Boozyuzi & @Aussie Darcy have 1 save pick to use

1. You can use your save pick to advance if your player loses or retires during their match.

2. Save picks must be used before the last 16 of the Grand Slams or before the last 8 of any other tournament and must be used before the ATP Finals.

3. Please nominate a winning player to replace your losing player.

4. Your next pick must be correct to gain additional points.

Good luck to everyone, the more the merrier.. It's all good fun..

Please sign up here if you fancy having a go.

 

[Boozyuzi]

WTF qualification and Save picks for 2021 - the WTF is currently scheduled to go ahead therefore we go with top 8 in the 2020 Points at the end of Paris to qualify for WTF Bonus comp. Save picks for next year will be top 5 in 2020 Points list after WTF. Winner gets 2, 2nd to 5th get 1.

Top of the 2020 Points will be declared winner and year end number 1.

Ranking will continue as rolling 18 month list as per WTA Tour.

So we do have a Race.. Hopefully

 

[Boozyuzi]

Draw - http://www.protennislive.com/posting/2020/416/mds.pdf

 

[Boozyuzi]

What should we do about unused save picks in ATP SDL ? 2020 is limited tournies so to be fair i think we should roll them over till 2021 for unplayed tournaments.

Any unused 2020 save pick is ok to use in any 2021 tournament that is not held in this year ie - SW19 2021, IW 2021 etc.

It's myself & @Aussie Darcy that still have save picks unused.

Still a maximum of 2 save picks per person though. If either myself or Aussie win this year then we lose our 2020 picks as its not impacted our end placing.

 

[Locotus]

R1: Rublev
BU: Querrey's opponent

 

[Fode]

R1: Cilic
BU: Kecmanovic

 

[James P]

R1: Kecmanovic
BU: Cilic

 

[bullfan]

r1eMinaur
BU: Fritz Taylor

 

[bullfan]

r1eMinaur
BU: Fritz Taylor

R1 : DeMinaur
BU: Fritz Taylor

 

[Rafa4GOAT]

R1: Dimitrov

 

[stringertom]

1R: Kecmanovic

B/u: Rublev

 

[kishnabe]

R1 :Lajovic Bu: cilic

 

[TripleATeam]

R1: Raonic
BU: Sinner

 

[MarcoB86]

In.
R1: De minaur
BU: Lajovic

 

[JadeC]

R1: Dimitrov
Backup: Cilic

 

[ark_28]

R1: Du Minuar
BU Cilic

 

[vasjain86]

R1: Dimitrov
BU: De Minaur

 

[PDJ]

R1: Dimitrov
BU: De Minaur

 

[Krish872007]

R1: Dimitrov
BU: Fritz

 

[boredone3456]

R1 Dimitrov
BU Raonic

 

[NaomiKonjuhPotapova]

R1: Dimitrov

 

[Aussie Darcy]

R1: Cilic
BU: Big Kev

 

[gn]

R1: Kevin Anderson

 

[Hamnavoe]

R1: de Minaur
BU: Sousa

 

[bezs]

R1: de Minaur
Bu: Struff

 

[Boozyuzi]

R1: Cilic
BU: Big Kev

Flash Scores has Cilic starting at 12.40PM & Anderson at 14.30 so we go with Anderson

edit - Anderson lost.. I'll try double check the Cilic time

 

[Boozyuzi]

R1: Kevin Anderson

Flash Scores has Anderson starting 1 minute earlier so todays your luck day, will try double check that time though

 

[Boozyuzi]

@Aussie Darcy Looks like times are correct

@gn plz pick again

 

[gn]

R1: Rublev

 

[GhostDog]

R1: Rublev
BU: Shapovalov

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Flash Scores has Cilic starting at 12.40PM & Anderson at 14.30 so we go with Anderson

edit - Anderson lost.. I'll try double check the Cilic time

@Aussie Darcy Looks like times are correct

@gn plz pick again

What? Why am I out in the spreadsheet?
If the R1 pick main pick already started when I posted, then I would just be allowed to pick a different match. Just like GN is allowed to? My BU lost sure but that’s the backup, I’m allowed to replace my main pick since the match had already started just as GN is allowed to

so:
R1: Wawrinka

 

[TripleATeam]

What? Why am I out in the spreadsheet?
If the R1 pick main pick already started when I posted, then I would just be allowed to pick a different match. Just like GN is allowed to? My BU lost sure but that’s the backup, I’m allowed to replace my main pick since the match had already started just as GN is allowed to

so:
R1: Wawrinka

Sorry, that's how backups work. As far as I can remember, Backups are used in place of your main pick whenever your main pick has been invalidated.

Whether that's invalidation via withdrawal of your pick or by picking from a match that has already occurred, we need to treat your backup as your main pick. Because you picked a match that was already going on, we need to treat Anderson as your main pick. @gn can't do the same because he didn't pick a backup. Thus, unfortunately, your situation is not exactly the same.

 

[TripleATeam]

For the other admins of SDL:

Moving forward, it would be nice to clarify some rules on backups so we avoid confusion like this in the future. I propose the following few rules.

1. If your main pick is invalidated for whatever reason (withdrawal, late pick, etc.), your backup will be used in place of your main pick. For all intents and purposes, it will be as if you chose your backup as your main pick and had no backup.​

2. Switching main picks is fine even if your backup already played. It is not fine to switch to a match that already played (to invalidate your main pick) and move on because your backup won. In such cases, the original main pick will stand.​

3. Switching backups is fine, though it will not benefit you if your main pick already played.​

​

I propose these because it makes the function of backups a little clearer. I included rule 2 because I thought of that a little while ago and it didn't seem like the rules explicitly forbade that, and this would be a good time to include reasoning as to why it wouldn't work.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Sorry, that's how backups work. As far as I can remember, Backups are used in place of your main pick whenever your main pick has been invalidated.

Whether that's invalidation via withdrawal of your pick or by picking from a match that has already occurred, we need to treat your backup as your main pick. Because you picked a match that was already going on, we need to treat Anderson as your main pick. @gn can't do the same because he didn't pick a backup. Thus, unfortunately, your situation is not exactly the same.

Sorry not true. Here’s one quick example I looked at. Big D chose a match that started, then was allowed to change and on the spreadsheet he was given Tsonga not Cuevas. Thanks

Asian Schwing is more like it!

Day 1: Hoppin on the Anderson train
B/U: Cuevas

Cuevas had already lost his match at this point too I’d like to add.

Anderson won his match 2 hours ago

Day 1: JW Tsonga
B/U: Karlovic

that was just a very quick look, I’m sure I can find more as I recall myself being allowed to do this before hence my annoyance now.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

And here’s the ruling from Krish themself

I'm pretty sure we've had this issue a few times too - the back-up is not used in this scenario either. If you make a pick for a match which has already started, you'll have to change the main pick. The latest you can realistically leave making a pick is during the warm-up.

If you want the back-up pick to then be the main pick (assuming the back-up pick's match has not started yet), you'll have to state this explicitly.

 

[Krish872007]

And here’s the ruling from Krish themself

Yup this is what we followed in the past. In fact @TripleATeam I think there was a situation you yourself may have been involved in - hence your signature. But yes if you guys think it's still a little vague we can find a way to rework the wording in the rules.

 

[Boozyuzi]

Sorry, that's how backups work. As far as I can remember, Backups are used in place of your main pick whenever your main pick has been invalidated.

Whether that's invalidation via withdrawal of your pick or by picking from a match that has already occurred, we need to treat your backup as your main pick. Because you picked a match that was already going on, we need to treat Anderson as your main pick. @gn can't do the same because he didn't pick a backup. Thus, unfortunately, your situation is not exactly the same.

Spot on - that's how I've always enforced the rule. I've posted many times that the main pick has started so we go with the back up.. Once the back up starts then it's confirmed as a pick. Couldn't do that earlier today as I wasn't online but it remains the same rule.

gn's pick was invalid and he would have been out if he had not looked back in. I post it's invalid as soon as I notice.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

So it sounds like there’s been inconsistencies in the past on how this is applied which is understandable given we have different organisers (thank you all for what you do as well) but I don’t think it’s fair I should be the one to lose out when me and others were under the impression this was all ok because it has been in the past multiple times. I think we can make a judgemental call on the rule for future tournaments so everyone is clear on this but given the confusion it shouldn’t apply this current tournament

 

[Aussie Darcy]

And before anyone makes comments saying i only care because I’m #1 and want points. Even if I lost in the 1R, I was a runner up in Rome last year so I’d keep my 600 points anyway because of the whole Covid rule of best of 2019/20 result.

I just like having fun in this tournament and interacting with my fellow forumers.

 

[Boozyuzi]

If your picks were the last 2 of the day or the last 2 of the round then what happens ? (Or if the only options were players that u had already picked)

I'm guessing you would want the back up to be used if your main pick had started.

Triples Teams signature is there as there was disagreements about what to do if your main picks original opponent was changed to a LL.

 

[Boozyuzi]

We can clarify a rule to say "Back Up will be used if your main pick is invalid"

 

[Aussie Darcy]

If your picks were the last 2 of the day or the last 2 of the round then what happens ? (Or if the only options were players that u had already picked)

I'm guessing you would want the back up to be used if your main pick had started.

Triples Teams signature is there as there was disagreements about what to do if your main picks original opponent was changed to a LL.

If that were the case then the back up would come into play because that’s the whole point of a backup as there’s no other options so you’d need a backup. Whereas I have a whole bunch of options now since my pick was invalid. Your treating the back up pick like a main pick. If someone’s backup pick loses and they decided to change their 1R pick if it hasn’t played that would be ok of course? So why can’t I?
My pick was invalid as said so then I get a change to make a valid pick. Anderson was my back up so he’d stay a back up.

 

[Backspin1183]

R1: Lajovic
BU: Tennys Sandgren

 

[TripleATeam]

Yup this is what we followed in the past. In fact @TripleATeam I think there was a situation you yourself may have been involved in - hence your signature. But yes if you guys think it's still a little vague we can find a way to rework the wording in the rules.

I've been involved in a few rulings that were disputable in consecutive tournaments back in 2017, but here's my reasoning for why this rule (after this application) should be changed.

After Krajinovic plays FAA, but before Dimitrov plays Mager, I post the following:
R1: FAA
BU: Dimitrov

Given the current application of rules, I have no main pick right now (despite that FAA would have lost). If I wait until all main matches are completed, my backup becomes my main pick and I move on. On the other side, if I happened to post:
R1: Krajinovic
BU: Mager

I could just choose another main pick. (Since my backup is locked in as a loss, but my main pick isn't.)

I could be misunderstanding how backups work (ONLY used in event of a withdrawal) in which case that should be made very clear. But if a backup is used if a SDL player happens to miss their pick, then I think this rules rework needs to be made abundantly clear.

 

[TripleATeam]

If your picks were the last 2 of the day or the last 2 of the round then what happens ? (Or if the only options were players that u had already picked)

I'm guessing you would want the back up to be used if your main pick had started.

Triples Teams signature is there as there was disagreements about what to do if your main picks original opponent was changed to a LL.

Yep! My reasoning being when we pick in the SDL we choose our match based on the matchup, not only the player but also the opponent. I wouldn't pick Djokovic > Nadal as opposed to Thiem > Musetti, but I would definitely choose Djokovic > Musetti.

During the tournament where my signature was made, I picked against a rumored injury, then an non-injured LL came in and beat my pick.

 

[TripleATeam]

And before anyone makes comments saying i only care because I’m #1 and want points. Even if I lost in the 1R, I was a runner up in Rome last year so I’d keep my 600 points anyway because of the whole Covid rule of best of 2019/20 result.

I just like having fun in this tournament and interacting with my fellow forumers.

Of course, we all just want a consistent application of the rules. It's a good thing to make clear.

 

[TripleATeam]

Sorry not true. Here’s one quick example I looked at. Big D chose a match that started, then was allowed to change and on the spreadsheet he was given Tsonga not Cuevas. Thanks



Cuevas had already lost his match at this point too I’d like to add.




that was just a very quick look, I’m sure I can find more as I recall myself being allowed to do this before hence my annoyance now.

At the very least, @Big_Dangerous should not have been able to switch his backup pick. I definitely think a discussion is in order here, and given the confusion I think it's quite fair that you'd get to repick. However, we all need to discuss this ruling because it's clearly not being enforced the same way.

 

[Boozyuzi]

That's a whole different argument lol

@TripleATeam thd world's gone haywire and Aussie has 600 points in thd bank. do you agree that Aussie should be allowed another main pick? I do.

i can add the rule "Back Up will be used if your main pick is invalid"

 

[TripleATeam]

That's a whole different argument lol

@TripleATeam thd world's gone haywire and Aussie has 600 points in thd bank. do you agree that Aussie should be allowed another main pick? I do.

i can add the rule "Back Up will be used if your main pick is invalid"

Of course. There's a rules confusion, so @Aussie Darcy should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I would definitely add that rule and make it very clear. As it stands right now, it seems like the Back-up rule is only in the event of a withdrawal from the player you picked. I think that should be changed to any invalid main pick (whether by withdrawal, picking a match that already started, etc.) will be replaced by the chosen backup pick.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Of course. There's a rules confusion, so @Aussie Darcy should be given the benefit of the doubt.

I would definitely add that rule and make it very clear. As it stands right now, it seems like the Back-up rule is only in the event of a withdrawal from the player you picked. I think that should be changed to any invalid main pick (whether by withdrawal, picking a match that already started, etc.) will be replaced by the chosen backup pick.

That's a whole different argument lol

@TripleATeam thd world's gone haywire and Aussie has 600 points in thd bank. do you agree that Aussie should be allowed another main pick? I do.

i can add the rule "Back Up will be used if your main pick is invalid"

Thanks guys I appreciate it and all that you do with this tournament, I have so much fun. And yeah I’m on board for the change from next tournament (as long as other players agree too). Knowing how wild 2020 is, Wawrinka will probably knock me out making this all much ado about nothing haha.