ET's Ian vs Tennistroll
- Thread starter AnyPUG
- Start date
sredna42
Hall of Fame
I'd look forward to that more than most of the offerings on the ATP now
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Diego go go go for all the short people in the world.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I could have sworn on the RG nightly broadcast Gigi Salmon said "Diego Shortsman"; but that was probably her English accent.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Yea, it is very easy to pronouncement incorrectly but yea, Nadal beat sinner, it is now Nadal vs Diego now. woohoo
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Vamos, Diego!
Friedman Whip
Professional
They got little hands and little eyes
They go round telling great big lies
They got little noses and tiny teeth
They wear platform shoes on their nasty little feet
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people
Don't want no short people round me
Randy Newman
When Newman was performing this song in Italy a man jumped on the stage and attacked him. Didn't see any humor in it I suppose.
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S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I guess he didn't wait around for the final lines:
Short people are just the same as you and I
A fool such as I
All men are brothers until the day they die
It's a wonderful world
F
FRV3
Guest
If both have messed up ankles then it is fair to play now. I don't care how much it hurts. I went out to wrestle with a herniated cervical disc.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
As someone not from the US - that seems a little low for ex-college players, based on what I’ve read on this forum.
Are they not very good players, or does this forum just make 4.5 out to be a lower standard than it actually is?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
College can span Junior College through NCAA Div I. Top Dogs out of Div I like Brandon Holt [Tracy Austin's middle son] from USC are UTR 14 which is at least NTRP 5.5 if not higher [I've never seen anything higher than 5.5]. But JUCO players at a school where tennis is not emphasized could be 4.0.
Also relevant is how long ago they graduated and what they've done with themselves since then. Most of the 5.0s I know are ex-Div III types in their 30s and there are plenty of 4.5s in their 40s+ who played some college ball.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
NTRP is also very vague and wide range as it varies between different region, sometimes subregions or tournament.
"good or bad player" is in the eye of the beholder - 4.5s come in many shapes and forms - all the way from 3.0 looking strokes to professional/high performance players.
FuzzyYellowBalls
Legend
Oops, I thought this was about most frustrating player, my comment is useless, so deleted.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
TennisDawg
Hall of Fame
Most Ennoying or Most Effective? Lol
Two different topics - one is on Ian vs MEP and another on Ian vs Tennistroll. Tennistroll is the guy who 'created' MEP. Both MEP and Tennistroll have featured in Jeff Salzenstein's coaching videos recently.
Ian is a net specialist who is developing an all-court game, MEP is a classical pusher and Tennistroll is a baseliner who is developing an all-court game. Got three different styles going on here.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Don't lie. You just have a lot of time on your hand that you don't know what else to do with it.
You are right, the OP could use a better video to highlight a possible upcoming(?) match between Ian and Tennistroll.
You are spot on regarding the availability of time. But I do know what else to do with it or don't do with it. Posting an insulting comment is definitely not on the top of the list.
user92626
G.O.A.T.
Good job. But do that once in a while to release stress. It's still on your list, right?
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
I have seen Ian play somewhat, however I'm not completely sure about how he will do. Is he good? I have read that BOTH are 4.5. How come the green shirt guy is 4.5 as well? Seeing both play, the quality of their tennis looks so different. So maybe Ian is not that good. I think Ian wins, I think he can handle a pusher, but it will be something like 6-4 6-4.
pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
I disagree with your comments on those players. Ian is not a net specialist, he is a all-court players, just being wise to win more as he age. MEP is not a pusher, but someone who developed a good sense of play from opponent and is able to move his opponent at a very basic stage. Tennistroll however is someone who hasn't developed a better sense and has no approach shot nor net strategy, so yea, maybe I agree with your assessment of a baseliner.
Ian said he is still learning to hit topspin backhand after 25 years of playing tennis. How is an all-court player if cant drive balls from his backhand. He got smoked by Mark,another 4.5 player with a strong baseline game, and could not hang with him from the baseline and decided play the net to avoid the ground game. Ian is no all court player in competitve matches, he could be only in co-operative easy rallies.
MEP is a pusher because he literally pushes the racket onto the bal. According to Rick Macci, the reputed coach, the modern ground shot is all about pulling the racket over the ball- elbow elevation, elbow extension, pat the dog, and the big climax PULL ! You do everything else to be able to pull that racket over. (and not push the racket)
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pencilcheck
Hall of Fame
Based on your logic, it seems like what you are saying is that in the tennis world, your playstyle is defined by your opponent current strategy. So if you play someone who wants to draw you to the net, then if you can't, you are a baseliner, but if you can, you are a net specialist. That doesn't make any sense.
Also Ian never said he can't hit topspin backhand, he just thought his form and his way of hitting can be improved and he hired someone to help him with the drills. Hitting a topspin backhand when getting a feed is not what Ian is concerned about, he is concerned about more in real match point play scenario. I think you really underestimated Ian a lot.
If every match is all about whether you can hit lots of baseline rallies or not, what you get is someone who has better in shape will win, since it is just a fitness/stamina game. Ian is not conditioned well, therefore he is finding better way to win. And tennis is all about finding solutions and finding the right way to increase your winning percentage that way. If your understanding of tennis match is only until the point of rally, then you still have lots to learn. And I think Ian proved and shown that in his videos multiple times why this is the wrong way of thinking. I recall he played some subscribers who drove up from Chicago and where Ian's opponent pointed out how he is losing the baseline exchange and the serve is too powerful, similar to how Ian talked about Mark. Are you now saying that if Ian subscriber starting to go to net, suddenly he is a net specialist?
The fact that Ian is willing and changing strategy shows that he is an all court player.
MEP is not a pusher because he is not pushing the ball. A real pusher cannot control and go against spin nor can they setup and place the ball at such precise manner. A real pusher cannot do slice and drop to form useful strategy as well. And you saw how MEP also has weapons when he drive up his forehand for passing shot. He might not be the best, but he is competent otherwise he can't be hanging in the 4.5 level.
I don't understand the Rick Macci quote and what point you are trying to convey. Anyway, it doesn't matter who the coach is, tennis is something you have to experience yourself to understand a lot of intricacy surrounding the game. If someone can understand and hit perfect tennis from just watching someone play, then tennis wouldn't be as fun as it is to lots of people.
You are arguing about trivial details and missing the overall idea. The bigger picture is that the players have different styles of play, no matter what your personal preference to name the style, the match up is going to be interesting.
You may or may not find it interesting, but that's okay.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
God watching someone sprain their ankle is one of the cringiest things, I have to look away. Why do you keep showing your ankle twisting every 5 minutes Ian!
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe "net specialist" is too extreme. But he has made it clear on multiple occasions that his net play is his strength.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
It depends on what your definition of "all-court" is. If it's the ability to hit TS on both wings, then Ian is not an ACP.
However, if it's the ability to play from multiple areas of the court [not just 3' behind the BL but deep, and short, and can attack the net when advantageous], then he is. He just does it with mainly slice on the BH side.
So the answer depends on how you define the question.
Does getting smoked by a better player invalidate his style? No. If Ian is an ACP [and I'm not claiming that he is], he has that ability whether his opponent is Mark or Federer. His ability to use that style will change dramatically depending on his opponent, of course.
Good points. Let's hope Ian recovers fast (full and complete) and the matches with MEP and others happen soon.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
user92626
G.O.A.T.
It is sooo done. Stick a fork in it done.
MEP purely counts on, taking full advantage of, running and nothing else. . .
And Ian doesn't even know how to walk without injuring his foot!
This is worse than MMA Gregory challenging Mayweather on ...boxing. (Can you guys help me out with other analogies?)
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
TennisTroll
New User
I too wonder who would win between Ian and me. I think the odds are even in my book. Actually - I think whoever plays at home may have the edge. If the match was played in Atlanta in July, I think I would have a slight edge as the heat and humidity would help me as I am more used to it than Ian. If we played in Ian's indoor court, I think he would have a slight edge as I do not think I would be able to adjust to the quicker surface without a lot of practice on it. My thoughts. I did vote for myself to win though : ]
D
Deleted member 771407
Guest
ahhhh Ian, the ultimate junk baller. Terrific guy but crazy to see how bad his form is for a tennis coach. Still, he is good at winning matches, and that's what matters at the end of the day.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't think I'd last a set in Atlanta in July.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Is your junkballer conclusion based solely on the fact that he slices his BH?
For a coach, what matters is how well he can teach. If you watch ET's many instructional videos, you might find that he does a pretty good job for his target audience [beginner to intermediate with some occasional outliers].
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
His fh form is a bit weird too imo.
But he's got a good all round game, I'm especially impressed by his volleys and overheads. His baseline shots are more and proble against those recent guys he's lost to imo, not enough power. Also the fact they can attack his serve but he can't attack theirs
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I'd say it's not as good as Ira's or Kevin's or Mark's but those guys have pretty darn good FHs. What's way more important is what he does with what he has.
He has stated on multiple occasions his strengths [net play, defensive skills] and weaknesses [slice-only BH] so I don't think he was hiding anything.
I'm mainly pushing [no pun intended] back against the idea that because someone's form is not pretty that they therefore must be a junkballer.
StringSnapper
Hall of Fame
Completely agree with you - I wouldn't call Ian a junk baller at all. Green shirt guy is what a junk baller looks like imo
He plays way too back from the baseline - all his opponents (including the mystery 4.0 player) were playing from just a few feet from the BL, he is almost 8 feet back and takes the ball way down. Not just his strokes, the court positioning is putting him in defense to start with.
D
Deleted member 771407
Guest
I agree to some extent, but I can't help but think that until you can do what you preach, you haven't really mastered it yet. But for beginners he is great, he is also great on the mental and strategical side, I watched several of his videos and enyoyed them. He struggles to create power on both wings, and his serve is a bit weir too.
He is a junkballer because he can't hit powerful lifted shots, be it on the forehand or the backhand. His backhand is a slice, and his forehand is usually simply pushed, it can be short, long, right, left, a lob, but it's never a heavy ball. He is a high level junkballer, but if he isn't one I don't know who is.
TennisTroll
New User
In my opinion, a good tennis coach does not have to be a good tennis player. Nick Bollettieri is probably the best example. I think he played high school tennis at most...yet he's coached maybe 10 or more players to #1. I think Uncle Toni played ping pong growing up.
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
Being a good player seems to be inversely proportional to being a good coach.
Becker and Lendl were about the best players to end up as good coaches.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
Great player + Great coach
Great player + Poor coach
Poor player + Great coach
Poor player + Poor coach
And all of the gradations in between.
People correlate a great player with a great coach but just because someone knows how to play doesn't mean they can translate that for the student; "just do what I do" often isn't enough.
People correlate a poor player with a poor coach but the coach might be great at explaining concepts to students.
The latter is worth more than the former: what use is it for someone to demonstrate perfect form if he can't break it down into small enough pieces for the student to replicate?
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't agree that how deep one stands or how low one takes the ball necessarily determines a junkballer.
Irrespective of how deep one stands or how low the contact point, "junkballer" to me means a lot of different spin, no pace, moonballs, etc. Everything except the standard TS drive.
But being on defense does not mean being a junkballer.
I don't disagree with how you describe his game; I just wouldn't use the term "junkballer".
You are right - but you can't deny the fact that there's a certain percentage of the population who do believe you have to be a great player to be a great coach and they can't see it any other way.
It does not matter whether it's right or wrong, but people have a tendency to believe certain things to be true...
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