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nikdom
Guest
In slam count. Whoever that guy was that had 12 slams. He never gets talked about much does he?
Discuss.
Discuss.
Will Sampras be slowly forgotten like the man he surpassed?
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Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
Was Emerson talked about that much before Sampras broke his record? My recollection is that he was talked about most as Sampras was getting close to breaking his record. In any event, Sampras was the year end #1 player for 6 straight years, and arguably played the highest level of grass court tennis, ever. Emerson was never the #1 player.
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nikdom
Guest
Are you sayin the slam count didn't matter until Sampras was in possession of the record?
I think regardless of achievement, Sampras will be a forgotten man the more he stays away from the sport. He just didn't give back or show love for Tennis.
deacsyoga
Banned
To some extent he probably is going to be increasingly, but Emerson isnt really a valid comparision. Emerson was never considered much of an all time great, and the slam mark was more the first official slam mark that was being shot at, and the actual name that oddly was beside it due to some bizarre circumstances was mainly a placeholder. 12 was the first mark, but 14 was the first name with a mark.
deacsyoga
Banned
Essentialy yes since it was the first time an actual all time great, which Emerson is not and never was considered, held the record.
Furthermore it was the first mark to be set once the 4 slams had begun to be taken fully seriously and slam total became a huge thing, which did not even start until the 90s basically.
Sampras is still among the short list of contenders for 2nd best in the Open Era. That alone shows he is far from forgotten. Emerson is basically completely forgoten now that his one claim to fame, the official slam record, is gone, but he never was much of an afterthought to begin with.
No way
Too much ytube videos and is easily the second or third best ever
Behind bill Tilden and budge of course
Ha
Don't think he'll be forgotten to that extent. At least, not any time soon
Sampras has a few other 'memorable' things going for him... like 7 Wimbledons in 8 years and 6 consecutive year end #1 finishes... that Emerson didn't (no one really cared about 6 Australians, actually not many cared about the Slams record either as all of it was accumulated as an amateur)
Laver hasn't been forgotten... largely because of his Grand Slams
Borg hasn't been forgotten ... largely because of 5 consecutive Wimbys and the odd combo off 6 Frenches to go with it
Don't think Sampras will be anytime soon either, though if Tilden's largely been forgotten, I reckon sooner or later, everyone will be.
Sampras has a few other 'memorable' things going for him... like 7 Wimbledons in 8 years and 6 consecutive year end #1 finishes... that Emerson didn't (no one really cared about 6 Australians, actually not many cared about the Slams record either as all of it was accumulated as an amateur)
Laver hasn't been forgotten... largely because of his Grand Slams
Borg hasn't been forgotten ... largely because of 5 consecutive Wimbys and the odd combo off 6 Frenches to go with it
Don't think Sampras will be anytime soon either, though if Tilden's largely been forgotten, I reckon sooner or later, everyone will be.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
I agree totally with your last sentence.
Time always has a way of diminishing any player, no matter how great they are to the casual fan. Will people discuss Federer as much 100 years from now when no one has seen him but videos? At least the videos will be better than those of Bill Tilden or Don Budge! Probably some player in the year 2117 will be talked about as far greater than any player in the year 2017 and a lot of it has to do with the fact they never saw Sampras, Federer or any player of today.
Sampras doesn't deserve to be forgotten in the sport of tennis but of course many will grow up and have never heard of him in years to come. That will happen. I'm a baseball fan here in the United States and very few casual fans know of Honus Wagner, the great shortstop of the Pittsburgh Pirates and yet statistically he was the greatest shortstop of all time! Babe Ruth is also a cartoon figure to some today but he was perhaps the greatest baseball player ever.
It's actually shocking that Bill Tilden is still discussed somewhat today considering how long ago he play. How many fans know of how great Bobby Riggs was in his heyday? Most know of him as the guy who lost to Billie Jean King in 1973.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Interesting thing is that the guy who had 12 majors didn't even know he had the record. It was Roy Emerson by the way.
Powderwombat
Semi-Pro
I have a feeling that everything from the past tends to be forgotten faster nowadays. Also more and more children who play tennis themselves don’t even know the present great players. I know that it’s strange and shouldn’t be the case in the times of Youtube, but that is my observation.
I’m from Germany and in my local (small) tennis club I’m responsible for the kids and junior players (together with my best friend who is also a Federer fan). Every time when we ask a group of them, then only a minority has ever heard the name "Federer". Even fewer of them know Nadal and nobody knows Djokovic.
Some of them heard of Boris Becker, but only in a sense of “he should be a rather good player from the past”. Nobody knows he won 3 Wimbledons and 6 Slams and was #1 or something. Also one single girl heard of Kerber winning 2 Slams last year. Again the majority didn’t even pick up the name.
For me it is very strange to do sports without knowing who is the best in it and without watching the game on TV at least from time to time. I started playing tennis when I was 7 years old and immediately I got to know the names, followed the draws, watched the big matches if they were in the afternoon, and all that still without internet.
Today they only know tons of singers and movie stars, but no sportspeople apart from football.
I’m from Germany and in my local (small) tennis club I’m responsible for the kids and junior players (together with my best friend who is also a Federer fan). Every time when we ask a group of them, then only a minority has ever heard the name "Federer". Even fewer of them know Nadal and nobody knows Djokovic.
Some of them heard of Boris Becker, but only in a sense of “he should be a rather good player from the past”. Nobody knows he won 3 Wimbledons and 6 Slams and was #1 or something. Also one single girl heard of Kerber winning 2 Slams last year. Again the majority didn’t even pick up the name.
For me it is very strange to do sports without knowing who is the best in it and without watching the game on TV at least from time to time. I started playing tennis when I was 7 years old and immediately I got to know the names, followed the draws, watched the big matches if they were in the afternoon, and all that still without internet.
Today they only know tons of singers and movie stars, but no sportspeople apart from football.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Not unless 90s tennis itself is completely forgotten. His shadow looms so large over that era that it's impossible to talk about 90s tennis without referring to Sampras. I can imagine somebody like Bruguera being forgotten. Probably Courier too if he hadn't become a commentator.
re_ipsa
Rookie
He's from different era. True tennis fans will always remember him, the last successful breed of serve and volley generation. To some extent I would consider him and agassi as rivals compared to federer and nadal. Except for Nadal & Federer having good relationship and Sampras and agassi are not. 
Prabhanjan
Professional
Almost never. Not even if Nole gets 3+ slams. He is among the immortals, and once a GOAT would remain one always.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
I hope you're right. Actually I'm pretty sure you're right.
Another thread, probably by an ignorant hating Fedal fan. Any true tennis fan will remember or read about Sampras, one of the greatest players of the open era. Emerson was a great player, but chose not to join the pro tour, so probably never reached the level of Laver, Gonzalez or Rosewall. It would have been interesting to see how Roy would have done had he joined the pro tour when Laver did.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Sampras won't be forgotten, mainly due to his 7 Wimbledon titles and 6 YE No 1's. Also arguably the greatest server and grass court player of all time.
I think the fact that Tilden is still discussed nearly 100 years on (obviously not to the degree the current greats are, but to an extent) is actually quite promising - because it means that today's stars, and those of the recent past, will probably still be discussed in 100 years' time. Even if it's only to place them at the tail-end of a top 10 GOAT list with a statement that they "played in a weaker era", lol.
I think the fact that Tilden is still discussed nearly 100 years on (obviously not to the degree the current greats are, but to an extent) is actually quite promising - because it means that today's stars, and those of the recent past, will probably still be discussed in 100 years' time. Even if it's only to place them at the tail-end of a top 10 GOAT list with a statement that they "played in a weaker era", lol.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Great points.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
I think if Sampass after he retire still stay sort of active in the tennis community; he would be more liked or thought of like Rod Laver had or even John McEnroe or Andre Aggassi. But he seem to be playing golf close to full time in his recreational activities and tennis not really that important to him unless he gets paid to do stuff in tennis.
Amongst tennis circles surely not given that he was by far and away the dominant player of the 90s, won so many Wimbledon and US Open titles, had so many weeks and year end finishes as the world no. 1 etc.
But amongst wider circles it is certainly possible. He just never had the global star appeal or X-factor that Borg, Federer or Nadal have had. During his career he wasn't exactly accessible to the media and didn't do much to promote the sport. Borg playing in all those invitationals in practically every corner of the globe was huge for the popularity of the sport (and his own personal popularity). And currently Federer and Nadal promote the sport a lot. Sampras loved winning big titles more than the sport itself, while someone like Federer loves the sport even if he isn't winning majors.
And as others have said since retiring he has distanced himself further the sport, while Laver hasn't. There simply isn't that aura about and reverence towards him as there is for Laver or Borg, and there never will be.
But amongst wider circles it is certainly possible. He just never had the global star appeal or X-factor that Borg, Federer or Nadal have had. During his career he wasn't exactly accessible to the media and didn't do much to promote the sport. Borg playing in all those invitationals in practically every corner of the globe was huge for the popularity of the sport (and his own personal popularity). And currently Federer and Nadal promote the sport a lot. Sampras loved winning big titles more than the sport itself, while someone like Federer loves the sport even if he isn't winning majors.
And as others have said since retiring he has distanced himself further the sport, while Laver hasn't. There simply isn't that aura about and reverence towards him as there is for Laver or Borg, and there never will be.
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Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
That is an interesting perspective. And that could happen to Graf as well because Serena has overshadowed her like Fed overshadowing Sampras.
roger presley
Hall of Fame
Federer vs Sampras is not the same as Graf vs Williams. Graf is much closer to Serena than Pete to Roger. It is even debatable who is greater between them.
Great champion in the 2 big slams.
Pete will obviously be remembered as a big one but in the last 10 years he has relegated a lot.
Why ?
In my version
- he was not a star (like Djoker and Lendl)
- he missed too much in other big titles and lost too many matches during the year.
In the other versions
- he was not a star (like Djoker and Lendl) and
- he was not winning on clay.
Pete will obviously be remembered as a big one but in the last 10 years he has relegated a lot.
Why ?
In my version
- he was not a star (like Djoker and Lendl)
- he missed too much in other big titles and lost too many matches during the year.
In the other versions
- he was not a star (like Djoker and Lendl) and
- he was not winning on clay.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
"Are you sayin the slam count didn't matter until Sampras was in possession of the record?"
pretty much, yes...for many reasons discussed here over the years
marc45
G.O.A.T.
12 majors, never #1...talk about a different era(s)!
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
As such, yes, but in popular imagination, I believe Serena has already surpassed Graf. But my parallel was based more on the fact that Graf too has stayed away from tennis after retiring. Out of sight ultimately equals out of mind. It's not that it's wrong for Graf to stay away from the limelight since she was always an introvert anyway but that's how the media works.
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
12 amateur majors. It's a great record, but, not the same as 12 open majors, although, I think he could have won a few open majors at his best.
marc45
G.O.A.T.
doubles was a big thing for him too I believe
marc45
G.O.A.T.
just checked, yeah, just 16 doubles majors
McEnroe was really the last of a breed, well maybe Edberg too...guys winning singles and doubles majors, something underrated now
Limpinhitter
G.O.A.T.
just checked, yeah, just 16 doubles majors
McEnroe was really the last of a breed, well maybe Edberg too...guys winning singles and doubles majors, something underrated now
I think it's easier to be a great doubles player when you are a great serve and volley singles player. In the 60's, many of the top singles players were top doubles players for that reason, in my view.
That's an interesting point, and you're right maybe Graf will suffer the same fate as Sampras, given that she's probably distanced herself from the sport even more that he has. I'm not criticising her for that at all. I certainly prefer her approach to retirement over that of the egomaniac Navratilova, which has been to try to hog the limelight as much as possible, constantly remind people about how great she was and denigrate players that have rivalled or surpassed her in the greatness stakes. I gather that Graf has hit with quite a few WTA players over the years such as Sorana Cirstea and Laura Robson.
One advantage that Graf has over Sampras is her nationality. Given how many successful athletes have emerged for the US across a wide variety of sports, it's very easy for Sampras and his achievements to get 'lost in the crowd' and forgotten so to speak in his home country, despite the fact that they were just amazing.
Yes Germany is a sporting powerhouse as well, not least in football/soccer, but of course not to the same extent across so many sports as the US overall. In my lifetime I don't think that there has ever been a bigger female sporting star in their own country, as Graf was in Germany. While Evert and Serena have been huge stars in the US, their popularity there simply doesn't come close to Graf's in Germany where she was basically a goddess. The TV ratings that she was regularly generating there were staggering. Despite her low key approach to retirement, and the fact that she permanently moved out of Germany a long time ago (after spending much of her playing career based in Florida or New York anyway), I think that might help her stay remembered.
Similarly Federer, Borg and Nadal would be ranked as the undisputed greatest ever athletes from their respective countries, which will help them remain long in the memories. Spain is also modern day sporting powerhouse and has enjoyed tremendous success in many different sports, again notably least football/soccer. But Nadal was voted as their greatest ever athlete in a poll conducted by Marca (their biggest circulating sports newspaper), by a huge majority ahead of their legendary football players, basketball players, cyclists etc which is a remarkable achievement.
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Agree with most of this, but not really your last statement - I think he's held in similar esteem among tennis fans as Laver and Borg. (I'm not talking about precise GOAT rankings, I just mean as a legendary champion of an earlier era)
pc1
G.O.A.T.
Well I'm just talking about his tennis record.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
Never, who else can barely stand up, propping themselves up with their racquet and then fire aces between puking.
Steffi is the last player male or female to have achieved the CYGS and the only one to achieve the GCYGS, so it is safe to say that even away from the sport she will stay relevant.
pc1
G.O.A.T.
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Few, if any, cared whether Pete won anything on clay especially in the US. Here, the USO and Wimbledon count much more than the FO or AO. I am not in that category, but most here are. The fact that he ended 6 years at #1 and had so many weeks at #1 made him Very popular in the US, despite what some may think. It is natural that Borg, Roger, Rafa would be very popular in Europe, especially since the US dominated tennis just before Borg won his FO and Wimbledon titles, and Roger and Rafa began to dominate. Pete never craved the spotlight off court, so was rarely seen on TV or in the news media. Laver, Agassi, Becker and some others craved attention in the tennis world after they retired. Some performers: sports, music, stage and screen stars can't get off the stage. To each his own.
PeteD
Legend
True, but in Sampras' case, he actually competed in doubles but never got anywhere.
mavsman149
Hall of Fame
Sadly Sampras is already being forgotten, heck, Wilson just released a Pro Staff 85 with Federer's face on it instead of Sampras. Federer never won a slam with the 85, shameful they'd do that. Pete Sampras and the Pro Staff 85 are synonymous.
CosmosMpower
Hall of Fame
If Jordan didn't have his own brand within Nike they wouldn't be selling anything with his name/image on it when LeBron is the current 'it' player. Just how it goes...
Karma Tennis
Legend
Pete Sampras will always be remembered as the Greatest Player of Greek Heritage the world has ever seen
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Just check the many threads on this very Forum where Sampras is routinely regarded as a tennis non-entity. He's constantly spoken of as "nothing but a servebot." The ignorance is mind boggling.
Mark Asher
Rookie
In 100 years from now if 15-20 players have surpassed Pete's 14 majors, he won't be forgotten but he won't be talked about. He never won the French, which hurts his rep, and he wasn't much of a personality. People may still talk about Connors and Mac being bad boys, etc. There's not much to say about Sampras once he's pushed way down the list other than he was one of the last serve and volley players.
I think he will be forgotten. I starded to follow tennis in 1995, and Pete was always there, he was the best at that time and he was one of mine favourite players. However, i never watch his youtube videos, except his matches with Ivanisevic, but i watch them because i love Goran. I have somehow zero connection to him, while i still love Goran and Rafter and Nalbandian. Now Pete for me is just another tennisplayer from the past. His achievements dont impress me anymore cause Federer topped them.
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