From a Fed fan: Nadal is extraordinary

zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
skip1969 said:
I've never understood why whenever Nadal loses, it's nothing but praise and glory for how wonderful he is; what an athlete; what a fighter; what an ultimate warrior . . .

TTW goes gaga over him like he's some God. It's re-donkulous. Just about every athlete who reaches the apex of his/her sport and stays there for any serious length of time is a fighter, a competitor, an amazing specimen. That's how they got to the top. Poasters here make the mistake of thinking that just because Nadal grunts louder, grimaces more, grinds out rally after rally, screams, yells, and flexes his biceps in his sleeveless tank tops, that somehow he's the epitome of a champion.

Did any of you witness Borg, or Evert, or Sampras at their peaks? How about Martina, or Steffi, or McEnroe or any other long-standing Number 1? Those players were all ruthless. They all had killer instincts. At their peaks, they steamrolled people. They were merciless. Competitive as hell. The only difference is they didn't have to win two-hundred 25-stroke rallies to win. They didn't win by attrition. They didn't have games that necessitated that sort of time or energy. Nadal's own style of play makes him have to earn every point with monumental effort and strain. But that doesn't make him any more of a warrior than anybody else. It doesn't give him a bigger heart, nor does it make him more courageous.

I'm with @nikdom on this one. Why would I want Nadal playing a 30-shot rally to save my life, when I could just have Sampras save me with an ace?
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Borg won plenty of attrition wars on clay, playing longer rallies on average than Nadal or anyone else today I'm pretty sure (though of course, modern rallies are more gruelling). Of course, he was also a beast on grass and carpet and had an amazing serve, probably the most adaptable player in history (and one of the most underrated ones).

That said, I agree with your point overall. I think it's just that people have a very one-dimensional approach when it comes to nearly every aspect of tennis, whether it's measuring talent or mental strength. For me, those are complex values that can manifest themselves differently and vary from player to player.

Playing high percentage tennis and running after every ball is not the only way to display mental toughness, in fact I'd say it's wrong one when you're 32. Being the constant aggressor in the match, forcing the issue and going for winners on big points also takes discipline and mental strength just of a different kind, especially sticking to that approach even when you miss a few.
 
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Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Federev said:
some fa


Some fair points. Maybe I'm wrong about Cilic/Nadal. Cilic can def get the job done and GOAT insane on his day (see USO'14). I just saw Nadal as so hampered after taking the 3rd that I thought that was definitive.

And - for myself - I put him up there in the top 2 w Fed (w Fed as GOAT) because I do buy the hype that they made each other better.

Anyway - you made some good points.
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You might've been right too. Unfortunately we never found out.

As far as the GOAT debate goes, I believe both have a legitimate claim tbh. Sampras has a legit claim too for example. Borg and Laver have claims. Obviously I believe that Federer is the best player I've ever seen, and he's better statistically, but it doesn't really matter to me either. When all the guys are ATG's that have won this many slams I find it more subjective than anything. If anybody wants to say Nadal is the greatest then power to them, I won't argue. At the same time I'll always believe that Federer is the best I've ever seen because of the ease with which he plays tennis. That's not important to everyone I get that, but it's important to me. I don't want Nadal to break Federer's slam record, but if he does it won't change my opinion.
 
kevaninho

kevaninho

Hall of Fame
sarmpas said:
On clay he's stellar, extraordinary. Off clay being faster, fitter, stronger allowed him to overcome his tennis deficiencies on those other surfaces and be a great success. With physical decline were seeing how much game he has off clay, he can't at will make the contest a war of attrition any more.
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That's a silly quote when he made 2 HC slam finals only last season, and making the QF this season isn't really a ****ty result, albeit he hoped to win it.
 
N

nikdom

Guest
Federer_pilon said:
I think people usually say they would let Nadal play a match for them, not just one single point lol
IMO it makes a huge difference...
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That’s torture. I’d rather die quick than have to watch a Nadal match and then die.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Of course, Nadal is absolutely amazing, but he's not unique in that - every ATG is/was incredible, come on. The idea that Rafael is a kind of superhuman warrior who trumps and transcends everything ever seen before or after is seriously disrespectful to every other player. And, by the way, the same applies to putting Federer on a special godly pedestal with regards to grace or talent. The margins are small at the top. It's a combination of factors that makes the best of the best stand out and above almost everyone else in history, not one single factor.

I respect Nadal a great deal as a tennis player and a competitor, as I respect any great player, but I don't worship him or anyone - they are people with human weaknesses and idiosyncrasies. I enjoy it when Nadal plays at a high level, because I enjoy any high-level tennis regardless of what kind of tennis it is, but I don't enjoy the extras such as those OCD rituals and general time-wasting. And I don't feel a reason to be passionate about his personality, be that love or hate - Nadal is neither a terrible cheating bsureshstard nor a paragon of humility to look up to like some say, just a somewhat eccentric guy who happens to be an incredible tennis player, although his undeniable tenacity and work ethic are equally a part of his personality and his tennis persona, that's something to admire. Same goes for Federer, or rather did until last year, because at this 'elder' stage he seems to have wisened up for real, and I admire his no-nonsense / common sense approach to both life and tennis that he struggled with sometimes in the past, with regards to tennis anyway.

So yes. Federer is amazing, Nadal is amazing, Djokovic is amazing, but don't forget about all the other amazing players of past and present, too - let's focus on appreciating and enjoying the tennis rather than bicker about players' personalities, luck and transgressions.
 
Sudacafan

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
Federev said:
I’m a Fed fan first and foremost. No close second.

But I’m sure there are many Fed fans around here who would agree that Nadal is simply extraordinary.

He retired injured today and he’s catching a lot of flak for it - And for his grinding style and medical timeouts. ( something legal and which Fed is increasingly familiar with we should admit.)

But Man, The Dude. Is. A. Freaking. Warrior.

I watched him play much of that match with Schwartzman, hoping as a Fed fan the little dude would take it. The Shwartz was playing incredible. Redlining and painting the lines. Seriously extremely high-quality and he was on fire.

But it became plain clear enough that he just had no chance. Rafa just wore him out time after time after time with quality positioning, great defending, consistent court placement, incredible spin, and his usual unmatched intensity that just would not go away as Schwartzman faded.

I know it was only Schwartzman. But he was playing at an extremly high quality and that’s not really the point. Nadal Was just doing what he always does: taking just about everything anybody can throw at him and sending it back with interest. And it just reminded me that even when he isn’t playing his best-which I don’t think he was playing his best that day - no one is more committed than Nadal.

What keeps him down most of the time -is simply his body. It’s not his commitment or will and it’s not his underrated skill and brilliance.

You can fault him for grinding it out and making his body suffer for that, but he’s a massively gifted physical and mental athlete with an incredible drive to win and a work ethic that’s insane. World class Athletes pay a price for that. Fed’s not the rule on longevity at his level. ...That’s another way to look at it.

He’s number one in the world at 31 and even now his play bears out that when healthy he is usually able to vanquish just about everybody he plays - except Fed off clay.

Simply put : His body holds up today and Cilic goes home. Losing the war of attrition to the Bull like just about everybody else.

Even after last year, there is nobody I would rather Fed play less than Rafa. The scar tissue is too thick in my brain to ever actually want to see him on the other side of the net from the GOATERER.

He’s probably one of the two best players in history, in large part due to how he’s responded to Federer’s greatness with his own brand.

Much more I could say about Rafa. And even though some of his fans here leave a lot to be desired by the way they post - (and some Fed fans can be likewise obnoxious)-that’s not his fault.

So a universe size tip of the hat to the extraordinary Rafa, and wishes for a speedy recovery, provided of course, that he never catches Fed’s slam count.
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From a Federer fan. Absolutely agree.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Of course, Nadal is absolutely amazing, but he's not unique in that - every ATG is/was incredible, come on. The idea that Rafael is a kind of superhuman warrior who trumps and transcends everything ever seen before or after is seriously disrespectful to every other player. And, by the way, the same applies to putting Federer on a special godly pedestal with regards to grace or talent. The margins are small at the top. It's a combination of factors that makes the best of the best stand out and above almost everyone else in history, not one single factor.

I respect Nadal a great deal as a tennis player and a competitor, as I respect any great player, but I don't worship him or anyone - they are people with human weaknesses and idiosyncrasies. I enjoy it when Nadal plays at a high level, because I enjoy any high-level tennis regardless of what kind of tennis it is, but I don't enjoy the extras such as those OCD rituals and general time-wasting. And I don't feel a reason to be passionate about his personality, be that love or hate - Nadal is neither a terrible cheating bsureshstard nor a paragon of humility to look up to like some say, just a somewhat eccentric guy who happens to be an incredible tennis player, although his undeniable tenacity and work ethic are equally a part of his personality and his tennis persona, that's something to admire. Same goes for Federer, or rather did until last year, because at this 'elder' stage he seems to have wisened up for real, and I admire his no-nonsense / common sense approach to both life and tennis that he struggled with sometimes in the past, with regards to tennis anyway.

So yes. Federer is amazing, Nadal is amazing, Djokovic is amazing, but don't forget about all the other amazing players of past and present, too - let's focus on appreciating and enjoying the tennis rather than bicker about players' personalities, luck and transgressions.
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Well said, the part in bold.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
Federer_pilon said:
I think people usually say they would let Nadal play a match for them, not just one single point lol
IMO it makes a huge difference...
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I'd still pick Sampras to play the match for my life.

Just playing the percentages, he has by far the best serve among ATGs and is one of the mentally toughest ones (though of course, ATGs are tough by default).
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
zagor said:
I'd still pick Sampras to play the match for my life.

Just playing the percentages, he has by far the best serve among ATGs and is one of the mentally toughest ones (though of course, ATGs are tough by default).
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Depends on which surface they play on. If Sampras on grass and Nadal on clay, I pick Nadal.
 
DRII

DRII

G.O.A.T.
ingvar said:
Look I dont want to derail the good spirits in this thread, but this big match stuff you proclaim above is a complete myth and legend. EVERY SINGLE grand slam is a big match. Nadals repeated losses in the 4th round, 1st round, 2nd round, QF and repeatedly to mugs when nads is in his very peak are all examples of big matches he lost when as you put it a healthy, motivated nadal couldnt overwhelm his competition. Its not on one hand as you put it. The competition in those cases was a 100 ranked player having a good day, sometimes it was a top 20 player. He regularly turns what should be routine straight set beat downs in to "epic 5 hour battles"

This whole id bet my life on rafa is also nonsense. Statistically you'd be much better betting on fed or djok as they are actually going to reach a final and then its 50 50 what will hapen. With nads theres a very high chance he will be knocked out 4th round or even 1st round. In feds peak you didnt even need to watch tennis matches until the semi finals as you know he would go through. You didnt even need to watch the semi you know he would be in the final. These days I actually watch old man feds QF matches live as I am not sure he will win. Nads has an air of epicness about his as he wears short sleeves, has bigger biceps than most tennis players and grunts and shouts and yells. He also has an air of epicness about him because of his amazing shots, defense, defense to attack but it is the extras like the shouting etc that adds up for the whole package. Its not so much results

put it this way if you are happy to overlook nads countless 4th round, 2nd round, QF and mug losses and only focus on his big matches that he won such as W08 AO 09 then you might as well completely forget about all of feds or djokovics losses in FINALS (as a pose to 4th rounds like nads) and only remember their big wins

And all pros are carrying injuries, aches and pains and have home and personal issues. Some people broadcast them some dont. Fed has never mentioned having 4 kids in a negative way but surely that has affected him and he has injuries his whole career he doesnt like to talk about. Djokovic clearly has a lot of crap going on in his personal life

and yes if it is not clear nadal is epic and amazing. an idiot would think otherwise. Their are plenty of reasons to like him and be a fan. Their are plenty of reasons not to actively not like him or not be interested but in no universe is he not an amazing player and epic
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you need to read this...

You got to know when to hold 'em,
Know when to fold 'em,
Know when to walk away,
And know when to run.
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table.
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealing's done.

Every gambler knows
That the secret to survivin'
Is knowin' what to throw away
And knowin' what to keep.
'Cause every hand's a winner,
And every hand's a loser,
And the best that you can hope for
Is to die in your sleep."
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
TMF said:
Depends on which surface they play on. If Sampras on grass and Nadal on clay, I pick Nadal.
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My presumption was a random surface/opponent in which case I'd pick Pete.

On clay sure, it's either Nadal or Borg.
 
S

SinjinCooper

Hall of Fame
Sudacafan said:
Wrong. The real issue is 23>15, and the "ownage" periods that put in doubt Roger's GOATness. Thought it was very clear. The cheat argument is ludicrous.
When did Nadal beat Federer cheating? Come on!
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No, it's the cheating.

Plus, Nadal is Fed's pigeon now, and hopelessly far behind in the slam count. The real pity is the damage he did the other honest players on tour. Fed was talented enough to relegate him to afterthought status despite the cheating. Other players suffered because the ATP insisted on turning a blind eye for marketing's sake.
 
I

ingvar

Rookie
1HBHNation said:
Lmao at all the hate from fed fans. Lets be honest here... You know u didn't wanna face rafa Nadal in the finals with vengance on his mind. Fed fans be parading in the streets today like it's Christmas.
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nads is a good match up for fed to face. Even when he is not in form nads is a good opponents. Fed was shaky in Miami and in Shanghai he obliterated nads though. Nads game just suits up really well for fed now.

I would rather fed face nads then del potro or cilic in slam final

The only issue is age. It is not going to be like this for very long
 
I

ingvar

Rookie
Federer_pilon said:
I think people usually say they would let Nadal play a match for them, not just one single point lol
IMO it makes a huge difference...
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@nikdom This whole id bet my life on rafa is also nonsense. Statistically you'd be much better betting on fed or djok as they are actually going to reach a final and then its 50 50 what will hapen. With nads theres a very high chance he will be knocked out 4th round or even 1st round. In feds peak you didnt even need to watch tennis matches until the semi finals as you know he would go through. You didnt even need to watch the semi you know he would be in the final. These days I actually watch old man feds QF matches live as I am not sure he will win. Nads has an air of epicness about his as he wears short sleeves, has bigger biceps than most tennis players and grunts and shouts and yells. He also has an air of epicness about him because of his amazing shots, defense, defense to attack but it is the extras like the shouting etc that adds up for the whole package. Its not so much results
 
skip1969

skip1969

G.O.A.T.
Federer_pilon said:
I think people usually say they would let Nadal play a match for them, not just one single point lol
IMO it makes a huge difference...
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Well, not really. The only people who say that are the VamosBrigade. But I remember peak Sampras, peak Graf, etc . . . and peak Nadal is no more mentally strong than they were when they were on top.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
1HBHNation said:
Lmao at all the hate from fed fans. Lets be honest here... You know u didn't wanna face rafa Nadal in the finals with vengance on his mind. Fed fans be parading in the streets today like it's Christmas.
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WRONG! I absolutely wanted to see a Federer-Nadal final, regardless of the result. I do think Federer would have had the edge though.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict said:
While the OP is in good spirits , let us not make Rafa a super hero.

Part of the reason Nadal fell to cilic today was because Schwartz softened him big time. Both matches are close to 4 hours.

If Nadal cannot play aggressive and finish points in earlier rounds that is his issue. But let us not fool ourselves into thinking that but for injuries he would be the greatest , which is a oft repeated myth by the VamosBrigade.
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This is a ridiculous post IMO. Federer is greater but Nadal is one of the greatest. The guy has 16 slams for goodness sake!

As for Nadal getting injured, it happens. Be careful what you wish for because it could happen to Federer at age 36. Federer is the clear favorite to win the title but we don't know if somebody like Berdych or Cilic will blow him off the court and Federer will have a bad performance. Don't get too cocky yet.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
cc0509 said:
This is a ridiculous post IMO. Federer is greater but Nadal is one of the greatest. The guy has 16 slams for goodness sake!

As for Nadal getting injured, it happens. Be careful what you wish for because it could happen to Federer at age 36. Federer is the clear favorite to win the title but we don't know if somebody like Berdych or Cilic will blow him off the court and Federer will have a bad performance. Don't get too cocky yet.
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Why is it ridiculous? He didn't even say Nadal wasn't one of the greatest. That's one of his better posts actually.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
cc0509 said:
This is a ridiculous post IMO. Federer is greater but Nadal is one of the greatest. The guy has 16 slams for goodness sake!

As for Nadal getting injured, it happens. Be careful what you wish for because it could happen to Federer at age 36. Federer is the clear favorite to win the title but we don't know if somebody like Berdych or Cilic will blow him off the court and Federer will have a bad performance. Don't get too cocky yet.
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Nobody is saying Rafa is a bum.

What we are saying is that his 16 majors is right about the ballpark where he should be and not 20-25 like VamosBrigade suggests
 
F

Federer_pilon

Professional
zagor said:
I'd still pick Sampras to play the match for my life.

Just playing the percentages, he has by far the best serve among ATGs and is one of the mentally toughest ones (though of course, ATGs are tough by default).
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Yes, but at some point in the match he will also have to receive serve
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
tennisaddict said:
Nobody is saying Rafa is a bum.

What we are saying is that his 16 majors is right about the ballpark where he should be and not 20-25 like VamosBrigade suggests
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Ok then. That's better and makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying. But the truth is, we don't know how many more slams Nadal can win. It may be none or he may get closer to Federer. That's why I would like to see Federer win #20 here. It will distance him more from Nadal.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
cc0509 said:
He heavily implied that. The guy lives vicariously through Federer. It's freaky.
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No he didn't. He basically said the same thing many others (including myself) said after him in this thread. I.e let's not make Rafa a superhero and assume he wins 20+ majors if he was healthy all this time. That myth is old and tired and has been shattered time and time again. And also, I don't really care how "freaky" anything is. You're attacking him based on reputation here, and that's wrong. If you look at the individual post as it is, it's perfectly fine.
 
D

DTL

New User
Jmauer said:
From a fellow Fed fan:

I couldn't agree with you more. The dude IS an absolute warrior. He's the "life-match" guy. And you know that he would have continued to play, if there were any possible way, regardless of pain.

He is an absolute animal on the tennis court, and very gracious off it.

I think that tennis is so fortunate to have had Nadal, and I wish him a speedy and full recovery.

How many kids in the last 10-15 years were watching him on their televisions at home, marveling at his awesomeness.

Among many inspiring moments, one of my favorites that captures his mental fortitude and absolute steel will was that 2013 USO final when he lost his footing at 0 30 on a must hold game, and fell down, going down 0 40.

And the guy got up, toweled off, won the next few points, and went on to hold serve and win the final.

Nerves of steel and a will to compete that is out of this world.
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What if he gets injured during this "life-match"? :)
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
Federer_pilon said:
Yes, but at some point in the match he will also have to receive serve
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Peak Sampras wasn't slouch in that deparment either. Can't dominate grass to such a ridiculous degree without good return, movement and passing shots.

My reasoning is this, serve is still the most important shot in tennis and having a great serve gives you a fighting chance against anyone (which is what I'd want if my life was on the line). So if I had to pick any single player to play for my life (presuming surface and conditions are random) I'd pick the best server among ATGs.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Steve0904 said:
No he didn't. He basically said the same thing many others (including myself) said after him in this thread. I.e let's not make Rafa a superhero and assume he wins 20+ majors if he was healthy all this time. That myth is old and tired and has been shattered time and time again. And also, I don't really care how "freaky" anything is. You're attacking him based on reputation here, and that's wrong. If you look at the individual post as it is, it's perfectly fine.
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He said a lot more than let's not assume Nadal is a superhero IMO. He said part of the reason Nadal fell to Cilic today was due to the fact that Schwartzman softened him up and that if Nadal cannot play aggressively and finish points that's his issue. We don't know that Nadal was injured in the Cilic match because Schwartzman softened him up. And he was implying that the injury today was Nadal's fault which is silly IMO. The same thing could happen to Federer in the next week for all we know. IMO if an entire fifth set took place between Nadal and Cilic today, I would have expected Cilic to choke it away.

As for whether or not you think I was justified in my interpretation of his post or not, I don't care much what you think with all due respect of course. This is a discussion forum and we're all entitled to our own opinions about individual posts and there was a heavy implication in his post which said yet again, Federer is the God of the universe and Nadal is dirt in comparison IMO. This guy tries to drill that point home 24/7. Everybody has a definite stance in their posting history and one post doesn't negate that and his last post certainly didn't IMO.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
cc0509 said:
He said a lot more than let's not assume Nadal is a superhero IMO. He said part of the reason Nadal fell to Cilic today was due to the fact that Schwartzman softened him up and that if Nadal cannot play aggressively and finish points that's his issue. We don't know that Nadal was injured in the Cilic match because Schwartzman softened him up. And he was implying that the injury today was Nadal's fault which is silly IMO. The same thing could happen to Federer in the next week for all we know. IMO if an entire fifth set took place between Nadal and Cilic today, I would have expected Cilic to choke it away.

As for whether or not you think I was justified in my interpretation of his post or not, I don't care much what you think with all due respect of course. This is a discussion forum and we're all entitled to our own opinions about individual posts and there was a heavy implication in his post which said yet again, Federer is the God of the universe and Nadal is dirt in comparison IMO. This guy tries to drill that point home 24/7. Everybody has a definite stance in their posting history and one post doesn't negate that and his last post certainly didn't IMO.
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Fair enough. I don't care much what you think either, with all due respect of course. Seems like you're looking unnecessarily deeply into the whole thing to me, and mostly because you've gone off on a tangent about his posting history that has almost nothing to do with that individual post, but of course it's your opinion and this is a discussion forum.
 
Legend of Borg

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
i feel like some of this praise is over the top

i really doubt these sentiments would be expressed had rafa pulled through in 5 today and was still looming large for fed to face in the final

not saying everyone is fake about it but it kind of has this "thank god he got bounced, let me say really nice and sweet things about him because i'm so relieved" kind of feel
 
I

ingvar

Rookie
Legend of Borg said:
i feel like some of this praise is over the top

i really doubt these sentiments would be expressed had rafa pulled through in 5 today and was still looming large for fed to face in the final

not saying everyone is fake about it but it kind of has this "thank god he got bounced, let me say really nice and sweet things about him because i'm so relieved" kind of feel
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maybe, or maybe people realise nads fans must feel pretty crappy and this forum has been pretty ugly past few months with nads fans especially being on the back foot, so maybe this was just a tennis fan reaching out to another tennis fan hey chin up
 
Legend of Borg

Legend of Borg

G.O.A.T.
ingvar said:
maybe, or maybe people realise nads fans must feel pretty crappy and this forum has been pretty ugly past few months with nads fans especially being on the back foot, so maybe this was just a tennis fan reaching out to another tennis fan hey chin up
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hopefully it was more of that

it sounds much nicer than fake condolences
 
D

Deleted member 688153

Guest
I've had Nads as #2 of the Open Era since 2012. Pete can kick rocks. :)

Rafa is a true inspiration to never give up, and has been the perfect foil for Federer throughout their careers.
Tennis would be much worse off without him.
 
Federev

Federev

Legend
Legend of Borg said:
i feel like some of this praise is over the top

i really doubt these sentiments would be expressed had rafa pulled through in 5 today and was still looming large for fed to face in the final

not saying everyone is fake about it but it kind of has this "thank god he got bounced, let me say really nice and sweet things about him because i'm so relieved" kind of feel
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I don’t know if you mean me (not assuming one way or the other) but I wrote the OP because I was seeing so much vitriol about Nadal and his injury and his MTO’s and how lame he is and what a joke he is, cheater, druggy, etc. and I was sick of it.

It’s the same spirit some Nadal fans exhibit when posting about Fed - as if he’s some 2nd rate weak era mug. Total crap. Middle school garbage.

So I wanted to just express my sentiments in contravention of one culture of posting around here and say - at least for me as a Fed fan - I have great respect and admiration for Nadal. He’s a kick ass ATG and the best competition the GOAT has.

If he’d won there would be no need to post because there would have been 1) no inury so no massive pounding on Nadal coming from the forum and 2) I wouldn’t have been in the mood cause I’d be worried about Fed facing him. (Which might speak a little to your point about him losing and thus the posts.).

But that doesn’t mean I don’t mean what I wrote. Cause I do.

He’s not the GOAT. Fed is.

And yes - if he doesnt get 20 slams or whatever because of his body that’s because he chose to play this way and his body seemed a good leveraging point via his resources, but he pays for that - and he either doesn’t have the same gifts or didn't make the same choice as Fed to preserve his body. So yeah - no point in saying “poor Nadl, if only he wasn’t injured”.

But that doesn’t change the fact that he’s an awesome and incredible mental and physical athlete - and almost - but not quite — unmatched player in my book historically -

To a a significant degree I think this is because of Fed’s excellence and what he had to do to compete. (As Fed saw what he has to become from Sampras, etc) ...It might even be why he and Novak and Murray are as wasted physically as they are.

So Fed and Nadal made each other to some extent. Roger said as much for himself about Rafa in the academy speech when he said his work ethic was unmatched and his inspiration. High praise indeed from the GOAT.


Also @hipolymer
 
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MugOpponent

MugOpponent

Hall of Fame
Great post OP. Obviously I'm a Nadal fan but enjoy the other members of the big 3. It has been a special era of tennis for sure.

I have no idea if Rafa could have won this AO, but I wish the play on the court would have rendered that verdict instead of an injury.
 
drewdoo

drewdoo

New User
Great thread.

I too am a Die hard Fed head...his brand of tennis is intoxicating. But then, Rafa’s is Too. I can never pull for the guy if Fed is involved but damn, he has won me over after all these years

Come to think of it, Novak is in The same group too. These guys have heart, skill, desire and theY give 100% and do it with class.
 
cc0509

cc0509

Talk Tennis Guru
Steve0904 said:
Fair enough. I don't care much what you think either, with all due respect of course. Seems like you're looking unnecessarily deeply into the whole thing to me, and mostly because you've gone off on a tangent about his posting history that has almost nothing to do with that individual post, but of course it's your opinion and this is a discussion forum.
Click to expand...

I stated my opinion about that individual post and why I thought it was nonsense, i.e. Nadal was softened up by Schwartzman and hence why he lost to Cilic. Nobody knows that and injuries can happen to any player with a lot of mileage. IMO, that individual post was another piece of a long puzzle of that poster's need/insecurity to state Federer is above everybody else. We all know Federer is the greatest out of the active players. There's no need to feel so threatened all the time and live so vicariously through a tennis player.

Nadal has his particular set of strengths that Federer may not possess. Also, IMO if Federer won #20 here, he would probably distance himself for good from Nadal. If he doesn't win #20, I think it's possible(not probable but possible) that Nadal could get too close. Djokovic probably won't get to Nadal's slam total let alone come anywhere near Federer's. His elbow issue seems chronic and perhaps not fixable by surgery due to tissue degeneration. We'll see.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Federev said:
I’m a Fed fan first and foremost. No close second.

But I’m sure there are many Fed fans around here who would agree that Nadal is simply extraordinary.

He retired injured today and he’s catching a lot of flak for it - And for his grinding style and medical timeouts. ( something legal and which Fed is increasingly familiar with we should admit.)

But Man, The Dude. Is. A. Freaking. Warrior.

I watched him play much of that match with Schwartzman, hoping as a Fed fan the little dude would take it. The Shwartz was playing incredible. Redlining and painting the lines. Seriously extremely high-quality and he was on fire.

But it became plain clear enough that he just had no chance. Rafa just wore him out time after time after time with quality positioning, great defending, consistent court placement, incredible spin, and his usual unmatched intensity that just would not go away as Schwartzman faded.

I know it was only Schwartzman. But he was playing at an extremly high quality and that’s not really the point. Nadal Was just doing what he always does: taking just about everything anybody can throw at him and sending it back with interest. And it just reminded me that even when he isn’t playing his best-which I don’t think he was playing his best that day - no one is more committed than Nadal.

What keeps him down most of the time -is simply his body. It’s not his commitment or will and it’s not his underrated skill and brilliance.

You can fault him for grinding it out and making his body suffer for that, but he’s a massively gifted physical and mental athlete with an incredible drive to win and a work ethic that’s insane. World class Athletes pay a price for that. Fed’s not the rule on longevity at his level. ...That’s another way to look at it.

He’s number one in the world at 31 and even now his play bears out that when healthy he is usually able to vanquish just about everybody he plays - except Fed off clay.

Simply put : His body holds up today and Cilic goes home. Losing the war of attrition to the Bull like just about everybody else.

Even after last year, there is nobody I would rather Fed play less than Rafa. The scar tissue is too thick in my brain to ever actually want to see him on the other side of the net from the GOATERER.

He’s probably one of the two best players in history, in large part due to how he’s responded to Federer’s greatness with his own brand.

Much more I could say about Rafa. And even though some of his fans here leave a lot to be desired by the way they post - (and some Fed fans can be likewise obnoxious)-that’s not his fault.

So a universe size tip of the hat to the extraordinary Rafa, and wishes for a speedy recovery, provided of course, that he never catches Fed’s slam count.
Click to expand...

You better slay with that common sense and decency. Nice post!
 
Vanilla Slice

Vanilla Slice

Professional
Federev said:
But Fed played 3 five setters in a row against top 10 players to take the AO last year.

Quarters to Final: Kei, Stan, Rafa - all in a row. Beat em all. At 35. Incredible.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with the point you’re making, but just to be 100% accurate ...

Round of 16: Fed d. Nishikori in 5
Quarterfinals: Fed d. Zverev in 3
Semifinals: Fed d. Wawrinka in 5
Finals: Fed d. Nadal in 5
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
cc0509 said:
I stated my opinion about that individual post and why I thought it was nonsense, i.e. Nadal was softened up by Schwartzman and hence why he lost to Cilic. Nobody knows that and injuries can happen to any player with a lot of mileage. IMO, that individual post was another piece of a long puzzle of that poster's need/insecurity to state Federer is above everybody else. We all know Federer is the greatest out of the active players. There's no need to feel so threatened all the time and live so vicariously through a tennis player.

Nadal has his particular set of strengths that Federer may not possess. Also, IMO if Federer won #20 here, he would probably distance himself for good from Nadal. If he doesn't win #20, I think it's possible(not probable but possible) that Nadal could get too close. Djokovic probably won't get to Nadal's slam total let alone come anywhere near Federer's. His elbow issue seems chronic and perhaps not fixable by surgery due to tissue degeneration. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Yes, agree that if Federer won #20 here it might effectively end the slam race. Or at least until everyone goes nuts when Nadal wins the French again.
 
Federev

Federev

Legend
Vanilla Slice said:
I completely agree with the point you’re making, but just to be 100% accurate ...

Round of 16: Fed d. Nishikori in 5
Quarterfinals: Fed d. Zverev in 3
Semifinals: Fed d. Wawrinka in 5
Finals: Fed d. Nadal in 5
Click to expand...
Thanks - you're totally right! My bad.
 
D

Defcon

Hall of Fame
There's nothing really that extraordinary about Nadal. He was blessed with superior genes and being a lefty. He plays a 1-dimensional game and has benefited hugely from all the courts being slowed down. He has complained his entire career about HC and wants most tournaments to be on clay because he says its superior, can you imagine anyone else being so hypocritical? His greatest strength is mental toughness, at the same time he is not above using any kind of illegal tactic to win and is not a sporstman, which for me nullifies it. His tennis isn't fun to watch or pretty, and in any other era he'd be a nobody without his poly strings and oversized racket.
 
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