Confessions of a Fed Fan

[BGod]

As someone who first became a fan of Fed after the 01 Sampras match (cause I was an Agassi fan) I determined after 2015 that Roger was a choker. He was a great front-runner but he was never truly clutch. That's why up double MP at Wimbledon last year I with witnesses wasn't convinced Fed was going to win and actively expected Novak to do it again like USO 10-11 and he did.

That's when I simply saw Novak as the GOAT needing to cement on paper with more weeks at #1, Slams (not necessarily having the most but more).

With Nadal that's just a no. Too much clay percentage skewing total numbers and old Roger beating him 6 times in a row etc.

 

[kishnabe]

Peak Federer better than Peak Djokdal outside of Clay.

2005-06 is Godly Stuff from Federer.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Djokovic started beating Fed regularly after Fed had already declined. That's why it's silly to group Novak with Rafa.

We’re both fans of same player. We just disagree about the age question and the issue of peak level

 

[Incognito]

How do you explain that "declined" version of Federer massively improved his H2H against Nadal and Murray?

because Nadal is even more declined than him

 

[Meles]

Welcome to tennis. Better late than never, but you missed all the good stuff.

Kuerton R16 2004 RG

 

[Meles]

And the OP never watched peak Fed, since he didn’t watch him until 2007, his last year of peak play. Never mind that no actual Fed fan would think or pen such drivel.

Irks me with Tim too.

 

[Meles]

I think the ascertion that Nadal and Djokovic are better in their early thirties is juat flat wrong. Federer had to play against prime Novak at aged 34 or so. Novak at 33 is getting dogged about by the likes of Tsitsipas and Carreno, and Nadal is more or less reverted to being a clay courter. Aged 34 and onwards Federer still made the semifinals of all four majors and the finals of 3 of them. We won't be able to say that of Nadal and Novak in 2024 will we?

All one big weak era until now.

 

[mike danny]

We’re both fans of same player.

I don't think so.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Technically Federer is superior player to both Nadal and Djokovic.

Prove it.

 

[TennisProExpert]

Federer is clearly the best tennis player of the 3. Nadal the best on clay. I think he’s been screwed by his timing. If you reversed his age with Djokovic i think we’re looking at closer to 25 slams.

 

[TennisProExpert]

Prove it.

He does much every shot better than Djokovic except topspin Bh. Nadal has a comparable FH and a good match up with Fed pre 2017.

 

[FRV3]

Federer is clearly the best tennis player of the 3. Nadal the best on clay. I think he’s been screwed by his timing. If you reversed his age with Djokovic i think we’re looking at closer to 25 slams.

Yup, Federer set the bar and the other two had something to aim at. Imagine if Federer had something like that to help him develop. Though Nadal did kind of own him early on, based on the results I've seen.

 

[clout]

How do you explain that "declined" version of Federer massively improved his H2H against Nadal and Murray?

Both Rafa and Murray have declined as well. Murray was never the same after that injury in late 2013, while Rafa’s game has indeed declined since 2014. The biggest difference is that Rafa has smarter scheduling now so it allows him to peak at majors and other tourneys where he has the best chances of winning.

 

[clout]

As other posts mention above, Novak wasn’t consistently beating Federer until around 2013/2014 when Fed was around Nike’s current age. Yes he certainly had his moments against Roger but it wasn’t until the last 5-6 years that Novak really began having his number.

Rafa on the other hand gave a Fed fan like myself headaches in the 2000s.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

He does much every shot better than Djokovic except topspin Bh. Nadal has a comparable FH and a good match up with Fed pre 2017.

Fine, but it's still just an opinion, not a proof.

Technical side is a matter of objective measures, isn't it?

 

[bnjkn]

To me Federer will always be the best no matter what happens because I'm such a huge fan. I love his tennis. I enjoy watching other players too but Federer's tennis to me is unparalleled.

But I think every mature Fed fan should acknowledge that, as perfect as his 2004-07 form was, there was hype then around Federer (I have been following Fed since 2003 and the hype from sports commentators was huge especially after TMC 03), and after that two other players emerged (though pre-prime Nadal could beat Fed on hardcourts and was already playing impressively on the grass by 2006) and we have to recognize their greatness. Both Nadal and Djokovic are at least as great as Federer overall (preferences are subjective), Nadal has no rivals on clay, and the claim that "peak Djokovic is the highest level that has ever been achieved in tennis", although I disagree with it, is not at all unreasonable.

 

[GabeT]

Djokovic started beating Fed regularly after Fed had already declined. That's why it's silly to group Novak with Rafa.

Novak began beating Fed in 2007. After the first four matches, where peak Fed beat teenaged Novak, the next 20 matches where 10-10 each. They have always had a close rivalry, probably the closest of the Big 3

 

[Subway Tennis]

A lot of recency bias going on though. I think as time goes on, it's easier and easier to forget how great Federer was. It wasn't peak Fed that Djokovic was beating. Nadal on the other hand

The concern for me is that Federer is getting lost in history slightly. Hopefully when the dust settles on their careers, even if Federer finishes 2nd or 3rd best, he is remembered for being the guy who kicked the big 3 off. He is the fountainhead, the one who first combined an insane level of play with consistency - the defining feature of the big 3 era.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Fed contributed to the sport in a way that only Borg can rival. He will probably end up in 3rd when it’s all said and done but you still have to appreciate him

Well said. He’s an icon. One of a kind talent for sure.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

The concern for me is that Federer is getting lost in history slightly. Hopefully when the dust settles on their careers, even if Federer finishes 2nd or 3rd best, he is remembered for being the guy who kicked the big 3 off. He is the fountainhead, the one who first combined an insane level of play with consistency - the defining feature of the big 3 era.

Absolutely. He set the bar for Djokovic to strive for.

 

[Aretium]

Fed is the best tennis player I've ever seen, as a tennis player. Sure that's arguable but put him in any era and any conditions, he'll do better than anyone.

Now, what he fails in is the killer instinct that Rafa and Novak have. But I wouldn't really criticise that too much. These three have completely inflated normal expectations, we're all getting carried away.

 

[King No1e]

As a Djokovic and Nadal fan, it has been a privilege to watch these two legends play. Their dominance together at the top of the game took tennis to another level of physical prowess and mental tenacity. Their 2012 Australian Open final was the greatest match of all time, just insane shotmaking, unrelentingly high quality, and both players showing a willingness to suffer as much as it took to win the title. It was an incredible experience to see Djokovic fight to his absolute limit and triumph over his great nemesis, especially after his brave performance in defeat at the US Open 2010 final.
Even though Federer has the most Grand Slam titles and dominated the longest, Nadal and Djokovic will always have a special place in my heart because they made tennis worth watching for me.
@REKX Am I doing this right?

 

[Phoenix1983]

@OP: He's greater than Novak Djokovic by some distance at this point. Just because the Djoker has narrowly bested post-prime Federer, doesn't mean he's greater than him.

Federer remains very slightly greater than Nadal also, due to wks at No 1 and YECs.

 

[King No1e]

@OP: He's greater than Novak Djokovic by some distance at this point. Just because the Djoker has narrowly bested post-prime Federer, doesn't mean he's greater than him.

Federer remains very slightly greater than Nadal also, due to wks at No 1 and YECs.

40-15

 

[Phoenix1983]

40-15

What about it?

 

[Maha2322]

I came into tennis through Fed in 2007. Had never picked up a racket before age 30, explaining why I still suck at 43.

Why did I come to Fed? He was THE man, unrivaled! I remember sitting in my living room absorbed in the amazing Wimbledon match against Nadal. I was in awe of Fed.

Then, a few months later, I saw him lose his AO crown to that Djokovic kid. I knew that Djokovic had something very special then. I felt then that the kid could challenge Fed’s greatness.

Then I saw FO 2008. Ugh. But that was “just” clay.
Then W 2008. Maybe it was mono?
Then AO 2009. Losing to a guy that wasn’t supposed to win HC slams. Falling apart in 5th set. Crying through the trophy presentation.
Yes, he passed Sampras (thank you Soderling and Roddick)...
But when you take a sober look at 2011-2017, you see a pattern—impressive success against the field but Fed getting bullied by Djokodal with just a few happy exceptions...

Fed was never really able to dominate tennis with Nadal and Djokovic healthy and at their best. And they are better in their early 30s now than he was...

Don’t get me wrong...I ALWAYS root for Fed against those two. I want him to keep his record.

But when I am completely honest, he’s just not as good as Djokovic and probably not Nadal either...

I am sure that the “true” Fed fans will trash me but I don’t see why being a fan means you have to ignore the facts. Thiem is my favorite player but I don’t go around saying he’s an ATG when the facts show he is only a very good player, not a great one (I’d love for Thiem to prove me wrong).

I haven’t abandoned Fed as a player, just given up hope of him as GOAT. Fed’s record in big matches against Djokodal since 2008 is just not good enough. Yes, there were some awesome wins. FO 2011 SF. W 2012 SF. 2017 AOF. But these great wins have been offset by many, many losses.

I just no longer can believe that he is as great as Djokovic. With Nadal he gets a slight edge but Nadal May win 3-4 more slams yet.

Did Borg dominate Mcenroe ? Did Mcenroe dominate Becker ? Did Becker dominate Sampras ? Did Agassi dominate Federer?

Answer is always No. In tennis, younger players naturally dominate older players unless there is a huge talent gap which cant be filled with youthful athleticism. This is not the case for Doko,Nadal and Fed.

Regarding Federer's less than expected performance in 2010 - 2014, Fed clearly suffered from motivation issues. He already won 16 GS and no target in mind. Nobody close enough to chase his GS titles yet. He woke up only when he sensed Nadal and Djoker closing on his records.

Djoker and Nadal always had a target in mind to motivate them.

 

[Nadalgaenger]

Did Borg dominate Mcenroe ? Did Mcenroe dominate Becker ? Did Becker dominate Sampras ? Did Agassi dominate Federer?

Answer is always No. In tennis, younger players naturally dominate older players unless there is a huge talent gap which cant be filled with youthful athleticism. This is not the case for Doko,Nadal and Fed.

Regarding Federer's less than expected performance in 2010 - 2014, Fed clearly suffered from motivation issues. He already won 16 GS and no target in mind. Nobody close enough to chase his GS titles yet. He woke up only when he sensed Nadal and Djoker closing on his records.

Djoker and Nadal always had a target in mind to motivate them.

Interesting perspective.
Not sure I agree. Maybe Fed was somewhat content in his younger years but he lost enough to Nadal from 2008-2012 to find the motivation to at least defeat him. Fed’s level was very high in 2011 for example. He was only 29. Not old!

 

[Nadal>>>>>Federer]

Fed fans cling on to a handful of matches that make them think he is the GOAT but there are countless times Nadal and Djoko are just better. Peak for Peak Fed probably comes 3rd. THanks for the honest assessment.

 

[Deleted member 629564]

Fine, but it's still just an opinion, not a proof.

Technical side is a matter of objective measures, isn't it?

Still waiting for any proof.

I can understand some people eagerly express the opinions like "technically Federer is superior player to both Nadal and Djokovic" or "Federer does every shot better than Djokovic except topspin BH", but sadly it comes with zero justification.

 

[DSH]

Lendl is fan of numbers:
"I'm a man of numbers," said Ivan Lendl, who won eight Slam titles from 1984-90. "And so to me, the guy who wins the most majors is going to probably be viewed as the best ever. Who is it right now? ... It's still undecided."

Analysis: Let Nadal vs. Federer vs. Djokovic GOAT debate go

Follow the StarTribune for the news, photos and videos from the Twin Cities and beyond.

www.startribune.com

 

[Beckerserve]

For the record, Djokodal have not been better in their 30's than Fed. The field has just bern very weak. Much easier to look good against Tsitsipas, Thiem and co than younger Djokodal.

And how come you don't bring up Nadal's struggles against Fedovic since 2015? Agenda much?

What struggles? Nadal ended 2017 YE1 and 2019 as well when Djokovic were his biggest rivals.
It is irrelevant what h2h is from 2015 lol. Career h2h is what matters.

 

[mike danny]

Interesting perspective.
Not sure I agree. Maybe Fed was somewhat content in his younger years but he lost enough to Nadal from 2008-2012 to find the motivation to at least defeat him. Fed’s level was very high in 2011 for example. He was only 29. Not old!

He turned 30 that year. Same age as Nadal in 2016 and Djoker in 2017. And they both sucked.

Coincidentally, all of the Big 3 suffered their first decline at 29, but sure, 29 is not old

 

[Rosstour]

But to be fair to Novak, Rafa started loosing to older fed, actually I don't even remember when last time Rafa defeated Fed off clay may be AO 2014

It is AO 14, you are correct.

This Fed fan sat up in shock when he beat Rafa in Basel 2015, and what followed was exactly what I had been wanting for seven years.

If we don't think a similar evening of the odds is in store for Djokovic we haven't learned anything. Fed is not done.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Interesting perspective.
Not sure I agree. Maybe Fed was somewhat content in his younger years but he lost enough to Nadal from 2008-2012 to find the motivation to at least defeat him. Fed’s level was very high in 2011 for example. He was only 29. Not old!

Fed's 2011 is criminally underrated on here. I know why it happens.... people just look crap up on Wikipedia and as a box score his results don't look that great, but his level was amazing.

 

[Rosstour]

What struggles? Nadal ended 2017 YE1 and 2019 as well when Djokovic were his biggest rivals.
It is irrelevant what h2h is from 2015 lol. Career h2h is what matters.

lol no.

What matters is what happened.

And what happened is that when Rafa was at his physical peak, he kicked the crap out of Fed on clay and piled up a crazy H2H advantage, and was good enough to get wins off clay as well. That was a moment in time (2008-14) and it's over now.

 

[Zetty]

How do you explain that "declined" version of Federer massively improved his H2H against Nadal and Murray?

Every man goes through a 36-37 age recline. Expect Rafa to flying around like he was in his pirate capri's again, vamos!

 

[Nadalgaenger]

He turned 30 that year. Same age as Nadal in 2016 and Djoker in 2017. And they both sucked.

Coincidentally, all of the Big 3 suffered their first decline at 29, but sure, 29 is not old

Fed’s level was excellent in 2011. He was one point away from going 2-1 against peak Nole in slams. Could he have beaten Nadal in USO? Not sure.

 

[mike danny]

Fed’s level was excellent in 2011. He was one point away from going 2-1 against peak Nole in slams. Could he have beaten Nadal in USO? Not sure.

With that I agree.

I was just pointing out that while 29 is not old, all the Big 3 declined at that age, so maybe it isn't such a magical number after all

 

[Nadalgaenger]

You decided this? How arrogant.

Exactly. Kind of comical, the tenets of Federer fanclub do not allow worship of “false gods” apparently. It’s like I have been excommunicated from the Church of Rogi for worshipping Baal (or NaBaal).

 

[Maha2322]

Fed's 2011 is criminally underrated on here. I know why it happens.... people just look crap up on Wikipedia and as a box score his results don't look that great, but his level was amazing.

That's because he is federer and he is supposed to win every slam he entered other than FO. Did it happen ? No, sure he regained some motivation after random loses to journeyman in 2010 but he was still losing in semis and finals. US open 2010 and 2011 are classic example of him losing beacuse of his lack of motivation or hunger to win.

 

[Beckerserve]

lol no.

What matters is what happened.

And what happened is that when Rafa was at his physical peak, he kicked the crap out of Fed on clay and piled up a crazy H2H advantage, and was good enough to get wins off clay as well. That was a moment in time (2008-14) and it's over now.

Keep telling yourself that lol. AO 2017 was an anomaly. 10-4 including 3-1 on hard means off grass Nadal will win at a Major over 80 per cent of the time. Thus he is GOAT.

 

[Rosstour]

Keep telling yourself that lol. AO 2017 was an anomaly. 10-4 including 3-1 on hard means off grass Nadal will win at a Major over 80 per cent of the time. Thus he is GOAT.

Time is an additional variable you're not accounting for. Rafa's dominance over Fed ended a long time ago.

 

[Beckerserve]

Time is an additional variable you're not accounting for. Rafa's dominance over Fed ended a long time ago.

Nadal has dominated the last 4 years. 6 Majors. Djokovic has 5, federer 3.
Federer has half the majors of Nadal. What are you on about lol. Last year Nadal hammered Federer at FO. Federer squeaked past him on grass and on hard Federer went out early. Nothing changed lol

 

[Rosstour]

Nadal has dominated the last 4 years. 6 Majors. Djokovic has 5, federer 3.
Federer has half the majors of Nadal. What are you on about lol. Last year Nadal hammered Federer at FO. Federer squeaked past him on grass and on hard Federer went out early. Nothing changed lol

Nads has one win over Fed in like 8 tries since AO14.

 

[Beckerserve]

Nads has one win over Fed in like 8 tries since AO14.

How many of those were major surprises? I mean results we would not have seem pre 2014? AO 2017? Perhaps but Nadal was coming off a 5 hr semi at his first event after injury with a days less rest for Federer. That match was a 50 50 call.
IW2017 definitely. Kudos Federer for that win. The rest i think you will find were in conditions Federer was beating Nadal their whole careers.
When we have the 2 greatest players ever obviously both will have conditions that suit them better than the other. Occasionally we may see upsets like w 2008 Iw 2017 but nadal v Federer has been a more predictable rivalry match up wise as their styles are suited to different conditions.
The h2h is significant largely due to the AO h2h and the fact Nadal beat Fed at W but fed never beat him at FO.

 

[Rosstour]

How many of those were major surprises?

All of them, honestly. Culminating in Wimbledon 2019.

 

[Beckerserve]

All of them, honestly. Culminating in Wimbledon 2019.

Dude come on lol. Federer is a legend. Yes he is older but the man is once in a life time special. In favourable conditions over 3 sets he should beat Nadal.
Majors outside W will be hard for Federer now v Nadal. Obviously at almost 40.
Indoors over 3 sets ill still back Federer. Two best of all time. Both fanbases have to roll with the losses as well as the wins.

 

[Le Master]

Peak Federer better than Peak Djokdal outside of Clay.

2005-06 is Godly Stuff from Federer.

Peak Federer better than Peak Djok on any surface. Just not better than peak Nadal on Clay.

 

[demrle]

I hear you but I don’t believe Nadal and Djokovic are much better in their 30’s than Federer. They had the benefit of being much younger. When Fed was 33, Nadal was 28 and Djokovic 27. Who should win? The younger guys right. Now imagine the roles reversed with Federer being the younger. It would have been a completely different story.

Well then why did Federer start beating Nadal again in 2017? Nadal was 31 then and had slowed down just enough to make the age advantage less significant. Then Federer could start winning again.

Your logic is completely off. Firstly, nowadays, players are entering their prime, and consequently their decline, much later than in the years past. Being 27, 28 as opposed to 33 represents no significant advantage if any, as evidenced by Djokovic and Nadal still completely dominating the field at 33 and 34 respectively. And secondly, as the decline happens exponentially, the difference between 36 and 31 is much greater than between, say, 33 and 28, not the other way round. The reason why Federer made some ground in the H2H against Nadal is that he somewhat improved his BH, thus not allowing Nadal to obliterate it the way he used to before. If your logic were true, Federer would be making ground on Djokovic as well, which is the opposite of what we are observing. v

 

[demrle]

And the OP never watched peak Fed, since he didn’t watch him until 2007, his last year of peak play. Never mind that no actual Fed fan would think or pen such drivel.

Well, the OP obviously didn't know that he needed to be licensed by you in order to be recognized as a Federer fan. He wrongfully believed that he can be one despite being knowledgeable and respectful.

So, Federer's peak ended at 26 years of age? That - is truly remarkable. And it even coincided with the emergence of Djokovic and Nadal. Delusional much?