D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
Yeah. What did you think of the Lesnar Strowman sequence where the hit each other for real?
Tennis writer exposes blatant favoritism and conflicts of interest in Australia Open
- Thread starter Elektra
- Start date
Yeah. What did you think of the Lesnar Strowman sequence where the hit each other for real?
zalive
Hall of Fame
It's not cosy at all to change the temperature extremely from outdoor to indoor, it's a shock to the organism. Medical recommendation are to cool down moderately indoor spaces in which you spend time relative to outdoor conditions.
As for the rest, I said it all and backed it up all, no need to add anything. Including why it does have everything to do with equality and fairness. No point to reiterate, so I'll stop here this thread with you.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
Agree with many points you are making,it really was not well managed, but I don't think the whole tournament was well managed which is a shame really,
zalive
Hall of Fame
You need a well defined official rules to avoid the situation of having the AO organizer being entitled to interpret their policy at will.
But, hey, the only official rule from the organizer is - it's referee's discretionary decision.
pame
Hall of Fame
You might find it more useful to read up about the Wet Bulb Globe Index and how it is applied, since it has been operative since 2003, with some minor amendment in 2014. You seem, maybe not intentionally, to think it suddenly crawled out of the woodwork this past week
zalive
Hall of Fame
Of course, I agree.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
I live with aircon in the summer, it is not recommend that the inside temperature is less than 9 degrees from the outside temperature, if the temperature was 37 that night the aircon should have been no less than 28 degrees
sdont
Legend
The French did their best to delay the building of the roof to favor Nadal!Watch out Rafa, just wait til they get that roof on Philippe Chatrier!
zalive
Hall of Fame
Lol, who recommends this? Air cooling manufacturers?
So, according to this ridiculous 'recommendation', if outside temperature is just 30 degrees, that means I need to cool it down to 21 degrees or lower?
I hope you see yourself how bad this 'recommendation' is, from whoever it originates.
But just to add, 28 degrees sounds ok. It's setting the lowest difference recommendation that doesn't sound ok. Only makes sense to recommend the upper difference recommendation, as it disturbs the organism to make huge sudden jumps in temperature.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
No, it recommended that the difference between outside temps and what you set your aircon at should not have a great differential, it's not productive and not good for the body, so if the outside temp is 50, you don't set the aircon at 21, so if it's 30 yes 21 is ok, but most people don't need aircon when the temperature is not that high, people use aircon when it is.Lol, who recommends this? Air cooling manufacturers?
So, according to this ridiculous 'recommendation', if outside temperature is just 30 degrees, that means I need to cool it down to 21 degrees or lower?
I hope you see yourself how bad this 'recommendation' is, from whoever it originates.
But just to add, 28 degrees sounds ok. It's setting the lowest difference recommendation that doesn't sound ok. Only makes sense to recommend the upper difference recommendation, as it disturbs the organism to make huge sudden jumps in temperature.
zalive
Hall of Fame
It's a standard legal maneuver to wash the responsibility off yourself in case of various legal situations.
Organizers have their interest to leave as much escape and maneuver space in case of lawsuits.
I never disagreed with closing the roof down. I just think the last minute decision to do so was pretty much unfair.
I think current criteria is too permitive. Some players were barely been able to play under outdoors conditions.
However it's easier for the organizer to leave matches being played outdoors.
And I wouldn't be surprised if there was a significant additional cost associated with having a roof being closed and reopened. In which case the interest of the organizer is to leave it open, preferrably.
Last edited:
zalive
Hall of Fame
Oh, the maximum difference. That makes sense.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
If Roger plays it will arrive, along with the lights .because you know he is getting old
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
Do agree with you
On TV, they said they made the decision based on the overall heat index — not subjective. Plus, the tournament got a tone of flack for having players on the court during oppressive and dangerous conditions. I'm sure the negative media press factored into the decision.
On the night matches, of course Fed is going to get more "prime time" night matches. He sells more tickets and gets more people to tune in on TV. That may indirectly benefit Fed, but it benefits the Australian Open, TV stations and advertisers more. My point is that they are trying to help themselves not Fed.
On the night matches, of course Fed is going to get more "prime time" night matches. He sells more tickets and gets more people to tune in on TV. That may indirectly benefit Fed, but it benefits the Australian Open, TV stations and advertisers more. My point is that they are trying to help themselves not Fed.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
There is a point being lost here,
Let's assume for example it was Nadal in the final facing Fed, this situation with the roof and practice and conditions would not have been the same, Nadal would have demanded more from the organisers, and would have got it.
Stratsworth
Rookie
I'm still undecided on what is more humorous - referring to this guy as a 'writer' or treating him like the Woodward & Bernstein of tennis. I know that having a grammatically correct title is usually a good place to start.
What's that you say? The biggest draw & most influential tennis player of all time makes requests? And they're often GRANTED? Color me shocked.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
It's not a legal manoeuvre at all. It's SOP. Given that we are talking about the weather, it has to be a last-minute decision.
In any event, they decided an hour in advance and rain does not give an athlete a minute's warning.
The current policy is too restrictive, but at least when the limits were hit they did close the roof.
In any event, they decided an hour in advance and rain does not give an athlete a minute's warning.
The current policy is too restrictive, but at least when the limits were hit they did close the roof.
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
Why? Because he always gets more than the other players and you seem to assume that this is his due?
As it was, both Federer and Cilic were given the same treatment, there was no reason for one to get preferential treatment (nor for Nadal should he have reached the final, although you seem to imply that he would have been given more than his opponent, Federer in this case).
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
If it was a fed/Nadal final there is no way the same situation would have arisen, you are kidding yourself if you think it would haveWhy? Because he always gets more than the other players and you seem to assume that this is his due?
As it was, both Federer and Cilic were given the same treatment, there was no reason for one to get preferential treatment (nor for Nadal should he have reached the final, although you seem to imply that he would have been given more than his opponent, Federer in this case).
fedtennisphan
Hall of Fame
That's the real reason this thread exists because Nadal wasn't in the final and his fans are annoyed because they need Nadal in the spotlight with Federer.
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
I have no words for this totally unintelligent and basically rubbish comment
And on that note, I myself will let this matter die, because as we all know, holding the trophy is what is remembered
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Go to any multisport event, or the Tour De France, and see how many people get IVs afterwards. Tons. They're not uncommon at all and heat is only one factor in people needing them. She was probably as emotionally drained as she was physically. The day of the final however was a pretty mild summer day by Melbourne standards. If they'd shut the roof she would have still needed the IV.
fedtennisphan
Hall of Fame
I stand by what I said. For some players and their fans, being in the spotlight and not be overshadowed by another player is just as important as holding the trophy.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
No, it's not as simple as that. You've never been to Melbourne I take it. They have saying there, "if you don't like the weather in Melbourne, wait 10 minutes." There's a reason for it. They have some of the most changeable weather of any large city in the world. I've been there when its dropped by 25 degrees for one day in the middle of summer before going back up to 40 the next day.
A hack sitting on the other side of the world who knows nothing about local conditions and refuses to consider all the factors they had to go on not make for a reasonable argument of any form. It's just a rant is all.
Respecting the game?.. Spare us your silliness please.
Last edited:
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
A pro tip for you since you seem oblivious to pretty much anything approximating actual knowledge: lawsuits of the sort you suggest are only possible in the US and a few other places. Elsewhere that sort of nonsense is regarded as, well... nonsense.
C
Chadillac
Guest
I used to play tournaments in florida, i know very well what the heat can do. It was a major factor for Halep
Latetothegame
Semi-Pro
Seriously where did this sort of comment come from "the most changeable weather of any large city in the world" Melbourne ain't even a large city ..give me strength
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
"Melbourne ain't even a large city."
25th largest by land area in the world. Larger than London, Istanbul, Bangkok, Beijing, Shanghai, Mexico City, San Diego...
Yep. This is definitely TT Friday.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Then she is unfit and/or not properly recovered from her earlier matches. I was in Melb and not even sweating much. In-all this Aussie Open was cooler than usual. The hottest and most humid day combination by far was the Sunday of the men's final. The earlier rounds where Monfils etc struggled were warm, but mostly difficult because of their high humidity. Final Sunday was both.
zalive
Hall of Fame
Not if they decide in advance to close the roof down, and have valid reasons to back it up. The reasons were there according to own policy criteria which AO mentions, measurements plus forecast. Also they defined their practice as a policy. Not as an obligation. They have written it clearly, referee's discretion.
Sudden rain will not let the scenario which happened: that one player prepared outdoors while the other player prepared indoors. This is madness.
You can't blame Marin for making a mistake either. How could he know the outcome decision?
I just can't accept this gamble effect in tennis. Especially when organizers have a discretionary right to decide this, or that, and when criteria is not engraved in any rules.
Also, what do you see as too restrictive in current policy?
Last edited:
zalive
Hall of Fame
Conventional business likes to play it safe when it comes to legal risk, this is my Europe experience in this part of the world and it's nothing legally hectic here. It's more like playing it as safe as possible, just for the case. Probably because responsible individuals working in business do everything to avoid being personally responsible, no matter how slim the chance is that such situation should arise.
Last edited:
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Cilic made the decision that he would have always preferred and that was to stick with what he had been doing.
He started off nervously, that's all, and he is that sort of player.
They've raised the point at which their extreme heat policy kicks in to an absurdly high level.
This is where you can safely accuse them of putting their interests above player safety.
He started off nervously, that's all, and he is that sort of player.
They've raised the point at which their extreme heat policy kicks in to an absurdly high level.
This is where you can safely accuse them of putting their interests above player safety.
zalive
Hall of Fame
Probably true, but also unimportant why he made the decision.
What matters is that ATP allowed the situation which made it unequal for both of them, by deciding for the last minute decision.
And as for the rest, let's not get into guessing what would have been, and why it was. Marin said himself he had trouble to adjust to conditions, and if you watch it again, that's exactly how it looked like. Within circumstances that's also natural.
You could not accuse them legally if they made the earlier decision to close the roof down. It was a pretty much safe decision to make.
It's obvious for some reason the safety of players is not their highest priority. I agree with this.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The ATP has nothing to do with the running of the slams and an hour ahead of time when dealing with the weather is not last minute.
Cilic didn't get his preferred outcome, so tough luck, but it was not his decision to make. The decision made was still equal for both players.
Cilic didn't get his preferred outcome, so tough luck, but it was not his decision to make. The decision made was still equal for both players.
Last edited:
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
I thought it was hilarious. Brock's way of saying calm the fook down. haha Braun was just a little overzealous with his attack. Can admire the enthusiasm.
OddJack
G.O.A.T.
Well that's nothing, Mr. writer.
If Fed asks, they should also bring in air purifiers and humidity reducing coals and keep on the air conditioning overnight to make sure he is comfortable.
So that millions of people can watch him play and enjoy.
And you Mr. writer, I am sure are a fan of a different player, who never complained about delays between the games, or on court coaching, or that your player aslo asked to be placed on evening sessions.
Oh, please be angry and disappointed or whatever. You are whining and nobody cares to change anything, so get used to it for the next year as well.
If Fed asks, they should also bring in air purifiers and humidity reducing coals and keep on the air conditioning overnight to make sure he is comfortable.
So that millions of people can watch him play and enjoy.
And you Mr. writer, I am sure are a fan of a different player, who never complained about delays between the games, or on court coaching, or that your player aslo asked to be placed on evening sessions.
Oh, please be angry and disappointed or whatever. You are whining and nobody cares to change anything, so get used to it for the next year as well.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You have no idea what you are talking about and it is evident that you never handled relatively complex operations.
merlinpinpin
Hall of Fame
Except there was absolutely *no* "situation", as you put it--that's my point. Both players were told the roof may be closed because of the weather conditions, roof was closed, end of story. The Internet divas are turning this into a full-blown drama, as they are wont to do, but that's it, really.
Fedforever
Hall of Fame
Exactly. My guess is that the organisers would have preferred to leave the roof open but were worried that if one of the men collapsed (hotter than Saturday and five sets). They should have made the decision earlier on precautionary grounds but were probably thinking that might infer a liability for Halep's problems.
Ultimately, making any decision would not save them from the conspiracy theorists. Make the decision earlier - obviously to favour Fed. Leave roof open and Cilic is clearly suffering - roof open to benefit Fed. If you've already made up your mind that Fed wins because he's in cahoots with the authorities then everything that happens will be seen in light of that, no matter how ludicrous.
zalive
Hall of Fame
Incredible how this has nothing to do with anything discussed previously, especially nothing that does matter. But at least sub thread died peacefully
You have no idea what you are talking about and it is evident that you never handled relatively complex operations.
What's visible, that I never run the GS?
True said, this really became silly. Why? Too much people here infatuated with Federer who don't want to see anything that doesn't fit into their air purified picture.
So it was pointless from the start, but hey, at least I can blame no one else for wasting my time
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
What injustice are you exactly claiming Cilic suffered and how severe was it?
All we've got so far is that he would have preferred to play without the roof.
But that was not his choice and he was informed at exactly the same time and manner as Federer.
There is no injustice here.
But wasting people's time with your anti-Federer rant, which is now what you assert you are doing, shows you are not a fit person to assess injustices.
All we've got so far is that he would have preferred to play without the roof.
But that was not his choice and he was informed at exactly the same time and manner as Federer.
There is no injustice here.
But wasting people's time with your anti-Federer rant, which is now what you assert you are doing, shows you are not a fit person to assess injustices.
Incredible how this has nothing to do with anything discussed previously, especially nothing that does matter. But at least sub thread died peacefully
What's visible, that I never run the GS?
True said, this really became silly. Why? Too much people here infatuated with Federer who don't want to see anything that doesn't fit into their air purified picture.
So it was pointless from the start, but hey, at least I can blame no one else for wasting my time
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Incredible how this has nothing to do with anything discussed previously, especially nothing that does matter. But at least sub thread died peacefully
What's visible, that I never run the GS?
True said, this really became silly. Why? Too much people here infatuated with Federer who don't want to see anything that doesn't fit into their air purified picture.
So it was pointless from the start, but hey, at least I can blame no one else for wasting my time
For starters, as other poster already noted, it is not ATP that runs the GS tournaments.
You indicate that you literally don't know that.
Then comes the mumbo jumbo about "unfair" treatment, when in this thread it was demonstrated that:
1) both players were approached the same way
2) Cilic's chances indoors are better than his chances outdoors
The extreme heat policy is in place, because people should be aware that in some circumstances the play can be postponed, matches moved or not happen at all. It is a business.
The organisers try to find the balance between running that business successfully and not endangering players' health.
Apparently they are erring on the side of pushing for more profits, but that has nothing to do with a preferential treatment of one player over another.
The fact that you do not indicate that you understand the above shows that you never had to make important decisions that can cost quite a bit of money without the certainty that they will affect the organisation or the business in the perceived way, hence the comment that you found so funny.
TheGhostOfAgassi
Talk Tennis Guru
Funny how this forum doesnt mirror whats happening. Here one gets accused wearing tin foiled hats when questioning these obvious questions.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
"Oh no they closed the roof, surely this must be why Roger Federer won a tennis match, especially one that he was expected to win anyway."
"It's unfair. It was rigged."
"The organisers just want Fed to win everything, and there is no way he could be winning all this stuff without constant organiser bias that affects the outcome of matches"
You see
Maybe
He just won that match because, as usual, he's the f*cking best. He's a winner. He wins.
Whining is a poor substitute for winning.
Stay mad, losers.
"It's unfair. It was rigged."
"The organisers just want Fed to win everything, and there is no way he could be winning all this stuff without constant organiser bias that affects the outcome of matches"
You see
Maybe
He just won that match because, as usual, he's the f*cking best. He's a winner. He wins.
Whining is a poor substitute for winning.
Stay mad, losers.
zagor
Bionic Poster
Playing excellent tennis throughout the tourney is one thing, keeping you nerves in a slam final against Fed who's a notorious quick starter and has the overwhelming crowd support is quite another. From my observation of the match, the biggest problem from Cilic at the beginning was adjusting to how early Fed takes the ball off the bounce compared to damn near everyone in the game now, that combined with Fed being one of the best returners of big serves on the current tour (and beyond) and Marin's slam final nerves was what made that first set go in a flash.
Once Cilic calmed down and adjusted to Fed's tactics of taking the ball early and rushing him he started to hang against him in the baseline rallies (topspin game as you said) and that's when Fed started employing the slice. Now Cilic may have some room for improvement in hitting off a slice but as 1.98 guy no matter agile and quick for his size (which Cilic certainly is) that's always gonna be his relative Achilles heel, fortunate for him though is that Fed is the only top player a great slice so that's only a particular worry for him in that specific match-up.
There's always room for improvement but Cilic doesn't have that many options against top players, he can't match their movement and doesn't have their shot tolerance in baseline rallies. He could slow down his game, try to hit with more margin off the ground and finish points at the net more often but that may make his game less potent and intimidating against the very best (we saw that happen with Berdych). He's a player that will always try to take the racquet out of your hands with his firepower off both wings, big serving and very solid returning (an underrated part of his game), I was definitely impressed with how gradually he got better at reading serve against both Fed and Nadal as the match progressed. What he can do however is further improve the mental aspect, not just the nervy start but also the gap in his level of play when he's leading and behind the score against top players is very evident.
I don't think indoor conditions worked against him overall, if I were to pick the most likely setup for him to knockout a top player I'd always pick fast indoor surface. Without outside elements interfering his low margin aggressive game and thundering serve are all the more effective. I see him as one of the top contenders for Wimbledon this year and I think his chances will increase if the rain makes it an indoor tourney. Speaking overall I expect him to reach 2-3 more slam finals and convert atleast one of those chances.
zalive
Hall of Fame
For starters, as other poster already noted, it is not ATP that runs the GS tournaments.
You indicate that you literally don't know that.
Then comes the mumbo jumbo about "unfair" treatment, when in this thread it was demonstrated that:
1) both players were approached the same way
2) Cilic's chances indoors are better than his chances outdoors
The extreme heat policy is in place, because people should be aware that in some circumstances the play can be postponed, matches moved or not happen at all. It is a business.
The organisers try to find the balance between running that business successfully and not endangering players' health.
Apparently they are erring on the side of pushing for more profits, but that has nothing to do with a preferential treatment of one player over another.
The fact that you do not indicate that you understand the above shows that you never had to make important decisions that can cost quite a bit of money without the certainty that they will affect the organisation or the business in the perceived way, hence the comment that you found so funny.
Look.
All I was saying whole of the time is that by no means it should have happened that one player prepares for right playing condition, while the other player prepares for wrong playing condition.
Now why this has happened? It's because the organizer doesn't care about this. If they cared, if they were aware of the importance that this decision should have been made early enough if anyhow possible -and it was indeed both possible and justified to call the earlier decision to close the roof down- then they should have made it early as well.
Looking into facts just proved that they could have done it.
One player's chances in finals match were compromised because of AO organizers failing to do so. It's because he picked preparing for the outdoors event, in the lack of the knowledge of what decision what it will be, while his opponent picked to prepare indoors. Compromising chances doesn't have anything to do with indoors or outdoors conditions players preferrence.
Whether this has or hasn't do with preferrential treatment is after all completely irrelevant in this scenario. Because this simply shouldn't have happened that players will have to guess the decision, if this could have been avoided. And it could have been avoided. Instead, what happened is disgrace.
But still vast majority has no problem with the scenario, it seems. Why? Because they root for Federer and wanted him to clinch that title no matter, so they intimately don't care much if his opponent's chances got thinner.
I can only wish for similar circumstances to compromise Roger's big title the next time in similar circumstances, only this time working against him, so Federer fans can see the situation from another angle, with less personal bias. I cheer to that and wish it sincerely. Not because of Federer, I like the guy. But because of his fans, because the amount of bias present is just ridiculous.
Last edited:
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The Winter Olympics are coming.
You have to just hold out a little longer than a week and then you get to get "inspired" again.
