dave e dave
Semi-Pro
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In their own country there are about 2 universities with tennis teams. Bath and Loughborough . That's why they go to AmericaI'm sure they can play Tennis on Campus. Maybe can play on a DIII team...… seems it’s kind of pot luck with these.
Just me, but I didn't see anything special...… looks like a run of the mill mid-4.0.
Curious… how is their game compared with college teams in THEIR COUNTRY?
I'm sure they can play Tennis on Campus. Maybe can play on a DIII team...… seems it’s kind of pot luck with these.
Just me, but I didn't see anything special...… looks like a run of the mill mid-4.0.
Curious… how is their game compared with college teams in THEIR COUNTRY?
Tall guy has a great net game. It would be easier to assess their level if I knew what LTA Grade 3 is. .
The right handed guy serving at the beginning. I believe UTR 11 would be about what I was thinking, higher D2/D3 or lower D1 level.The level at grade 3 takes in anything up to UTR 12. The tall guy is UTR 11. By the way which one is the tall guy?
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Oh yes the tall guy. I was thinking of his other game against a guy 6'6.The right handed guy serving at the beginning. I believe UTR 11 would be about what I was thinking, higher D2/D3 or lower D1 level.
@dave e dave I looked up the guys' UTR-Taylor Papworth is a 10.77. Mark Miscevic is a 10.42. Both could probably play D3 outside the top 20 D3 teams; the UTRs of line 5 and 6 of team ranked around #20 D3 are 10.7+ UTR. Doubtful they could play D1 on a team that gave scholarships. There are a few bottom D1 teams with a line 6 below 11 UTR but those team probably have limited scholarship $, and on most D1 teams, 5 and 6 are getting limited athletic scholarships; know of some guys who play 5 or 6 who didnt get any. With those UTRs, you are talking about D2 line 5 or 6 for team right outside top 30-could play higher in lineup of lower D2 teams (200+ D@ teams). There are 300+ D3 teams but some are very low level tennis. There is also NAIA-dont know #s on those. Most guys at 10.5-11 level would probably get mostly merit(academic) aid (of course D3 only gives merit, no athletic), maybe some athletic and have to pay $10K+ out of pocket. If these guys are looking to start college in 9/20 vs 9/19, they obviously have time to improve their UTRs. If they are looking for fall 2019, most slots (or at least scholarship $) are already taken.The right handed guy serving at the beginning. I believe UTR 11 would be about what I was thinking, higher D2/D3 or lower D1 level.
You say your honest assessment is 4.0. I say that's slightly delusional. There was a poster on here that assessed Peter Polansky (ATP tour pro from Canada) as a USTA 4.5. Looks can be deceiving. There is a stark difference between the ball speed live versus on video. This is really evident if you've ever watched professional tennis live compared to on TV. I've also seen 4.0's recorded on video and they are no where near these guys in ability. I'm not saying they are 5.5's, but 5.0/strong 4.5's would be my guess. jcgatennismom's assessment seems more realistic. And I would agree with her, these guys are likely not strong enough to merit an athletic scholarship (unless they improve their UTR), but should be able to crack most D3 squad's lineups, unless they are a top D3 program.I'm just being honest...… which may people are not. Watching their match, I don't see anything special.... sorry.
If you've been this level before you can easily see it and understand it.
I've played many guy's that are at this level... tall, short, slow and fast.
Yes they are tall but that isn't skill or talent.
Skill/Talent is being able to use that advantage to your advantage..... and I just don't see it.
I just see them rallying around. Serve is average, FB and BH are average, net game is average and even the over head slam is average.
This is very common to people that play each other a lot........ which I suspect they do.
Maybe not a mid-4.0 but a strong 4.0......… no more.
I'm a strong 4.5 (USTA) and I can easily beat both (but not at the same time) and personally know many others at my level that would easily destroy them...… sorry.
I use USTA rating because its easier (even though I don't like it for ranking purposes).
If their UTR is 10+ (calculated) that would make them roughly a 5.5 ... sorry I just don't see on the court.
***EDIT***
After watching the second video.... I'm back to thinking mid-4.0.
Both players have LTA ratings of 2.2 which equates to ntrp 6.0Ahhh ok………...
I'll move back to a strong 4.0 for my assessment ...….., but no more; not going to get into a spitting match on why.
If you think they are stronger, I wish you the best.
I never said they couldn't get into college...… but then again he never asked what level of college.
No top school for sure.
I only wish these internationals would develop a college tennis program in their own country so they wouldn't come over here!!!
Per this chart https://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/ExperiencedGuidelines_02142011_V2pdf.pdf, the highest an unranked D2 or D3 player can be is 5.0 (and these guys are not in college yet-just possible candidates for D2/D3). Now Charles Broom who play for Dartmouth and has UTR 13.67 would be a 6.0-6.5 (has Itf world points but not ATP) but his UtR is 3 points higher. Know a Brit who won a LTA 2 one summer and plays line 1 or 2 midmajor D1-his uTR is about 12.5, and he would be a 5.5-that's about 2 UTR higher. The lowest nationally ranked players for D2/D3 are probably around 11.5 tho most are probably 12+ so the floor for a 5.5 ranking would be around 11.5 but there are UTR 12.5s-13.5 that would be considered 5.5s (unranked D1s)-big range. College coaches arent interested in NTRP ranking-just uTR, jr itF, ITF world, ATP, and TRN (US only). Best guess is these guys are 4.5-5.0 based on UTR.Both players have LTA ratings of 2.2 which equates to ntrp 6.0
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If they are 6.0 they should be playing ITF futures and have a ranking.
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If they are 6.0 they should be playing ITF futures and have a ranking.
On a side note, that Taylor guy has a decent serve but I think if he was able to correct some of his mechanics it could be improved.
That was my point. Looking at them, I think 6.0 seems too high. It is more likely they are closer to 5.0.I doubt those guys would be very competitive at the futures level. Some of those futures used to have high level D1 college players (even ones ranked in the ITA 125) in the qualifying draws, let alone the main draws.
They are both 2.2 LTA. Which = 6.0 ntrpThat was my point. Looking at them, I think 6.0 seems too high. It is more likely they are closer to 5.0.
Last summer, guys that are now in ATP 400 were playing the Qualis of Futures. Roy Smith, Houston Challenger finalist, lost to Jordi Arconada in the final round of Qualis in a $15K. Maxime Cressy of UCLA, Cleveland challenger winner, was playing $25K Qualis, winning, and then getting in summer MDs. Now with the transition tour, talented college guys wont have 6 months to go from Future Qualis to Challenger finals. If they dont already have a lot of ITF world points or an 2019 ATP point (meaning they were a $25K finalist) they will not even get in Future Qualis without a WC. Guys ranked 350-500 who have Challenger points from last year like Jared Hiltzik (Illinois) and Karue Sell (UCLA) cant even get into 2019 Challengers to defend their points. Challenger Qualis used to be 32 draw and now are draws of 4. Hiltzik reached the QFs of Drummondville last year as a lucky loser out of Qualis; this year he is 25th alternate. So sad to read the tweets of these talented guys who are wondering if they should drop down and play $25Ks just to have something to play. Of course if Challenger level players play Futures, there are even less spots for the top college players who dont already have points.I doubt those guys would be very competitive at the futures level. Some of those futures used to have high level D1 college players (even ones ranked in the ITA 125) in the qualifying draws, let alone the main draws.
The LTA rating system has been broken for a long time. 10-15 years ago, a 2.2 rating was extremely rare - it was national level, most likely with a junior world ranking, possibly even a senior world ranking. Your average club around the country wouldn't have anyone near that good playing there. Now they're frankly ten-a-penny, and the system is far too top heavy. You can't blame the kids for this, but the reality is that 2.1s and 2.2s often have a highly inflated rating.They are both 2.2 LTA. Which = 6.0 ntrp
Maybe the LTA ranking system is wrong.
The LTA rating system has been broken for a long time. 10-15 years ago, a 2.2 rating was extremely rare - it was national level, most likely with a junior world ranking, possibly even a senior world ranking. Your average club around the country wouldn't have anyone near that good playing there. Now they're frankly ten-a-penny, and the system is far too top heavy. You can't blame the kids for this, but the reality is that 2.1s and 2.2s often have a highly inflated rating.
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Two major changes came into effect. The first was frequency of ratings runs. A ratings run is basically an eligible period of time - your results in that window determine whether your rating will change. There used to be two a year, there are now four. This means it's possible to climb the ladder twice as fast.The highest you can go with an LTA rating is 1.1 yet as you know the gap between ability amongst them all is huge. when you know someone is a 1.1 really all you know is that they are a very good player. So why has the system broke?
I can be convenced that they are around a 4.5.
But honestly...……. there is nothing special about their game.... everything is average at best.
They would be slowly picked apart by any experienced 4.5 and a 5.0 or greater would just toy with them.
Their best bet would be to stay in THIER country and promote the game at their local university.
I can be convenced that they are around a 4.5.
But honestly...……. there is nothing special about their game.... everything is average at best.
They would be slowly picked apart by any experienced 4.5 and a 5.0 or greater would just toy with them.
Their best bet would be to stay in THIER country and promote the game at their local university.
Their strokes are AVERAGE...… nothing special........ just look at the points in the video.
An experience player will pick their game apart.
Just to give some perspective on the 10.77 ranking of the older Brit player, there are close to 2000 D1 male players with higher UTRs. Over 1100 d1 college males have UTRs over 12-close to 400 of those are US players (35%). 117 have UTRs over 13.5 (42% US). 27 players have UTRs over 14-most of those have ATP points (11 or 41% play for US in events). Players with UTRs over 13: 331, over 12.5 685 players. 1/3 of players 12.5-13.5 are US players. So those Brit guys probably will be playing D2, D3, or NAIA.
I can tell you there are plenty of D1 guys playing at MAC schools that are not 5.5’s. Some are barely 5.0’s.I dont think people quite grasp that D1 tennis is almost across the board extremely high level tennis
Any split or full scholarship earning player is even higher level tennis
Any active D1 player should be at least 5.5 (which is the new NTRP cutoff since they made the 5.5+ distinction) and that is at like Toledo. At a power 5 conference they should really all be hypothetical 6.0 to open level.
I would put these players at around 4.5 with maybe an absolute peak of 5.0 on a good day we didnt see indoors. There are a ****ton of people that fall into their range that were never winning anything (or even getting the chance to) in D1 college tennis.
Since they are using some funky LTA rating system I dont understand thats the best I got
I can tell you there are plenty of D1 guys playing at MAC schools that are not 5.5’s. Some are barely 5.0’s.
I mean the USTA has set the guidelines for what a D1 college player is. Toledo or Ohio State.
They are 5.5+
The only point is that these players are not
No. They are equivalent ntrp 6.0. LTA rating 2.2. Whether you like it or not it is official.
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There is no 'official' conversion between the two systems. Any chart you may be looking at is likely outdated, with the LTA ratings at that level potentially being far weaker than they used to be for reasons I outlined above.No. They are equivalent ntrp 6.0. LTA rating 2.2. Whether you like it or not it is official.
[QUOTE="Deon Sanders,
LTA isnt even a thing.
However, in the loss ratio, they only count losses to players who are rated lower than you. Losses to higher rated players aren't included (fair enough), but losses to players with the same rating as you also aren't included.
If @tennisjunky’s tennis skills are on a similar level to his ability to judge the players level in the video above, I’d say he’s a strong 3.0. Maybe even a 3.5.An experienced 4.5 player such as yourself?
I'm just being honest...… which may people are not. Watching their match, I don't see anything special.... sorry.
If you've been this level before you can easily see it and understand it.
I've played many guy's that are at this level... tall, short, slow and fast.
Yes they are tall but that isn't skill or talent.
Skill/Talent is being able to use that advantage to your advantage..... and I just don't see it.
I just see them rallying around. Serve is average, FB and BH are average, net game is average and even the over head slam is average.
This is very common to people that play each other a lot........ which I suspect they do.
Maybe not a mid-4.0 but a strong 4.0......… no more.
I'm a strong 4.5 (USTA) and I can easily beat both (but not at the same time) and personally know many others at my level that would easily destroy them...… sorry.
I use USTA rating because its easier (even though I don't like it for ranking purposes).
If their UTR is 10+ (calculated) that would make them roughly a 5.5 ... sorry I just don't see on the court.
***EDIT***
After watching the second video.... I'm back to thinking mid-4.0.
You should not make assumptions. Some D2 and even some MM D1 coaches cant even get American juniors to visit their campuses. Now some D2 colleges may have pipelines to different countries or assistant coaches from another country, and they may choose to primarily recruit international players. D2 has the highest % of international players out of D1,D2, and D3 but again a lot of that has to do with the choices American players make-to sit on a bench of a Power team or play club at a flagship rather than play D2 or MM D1, and that may be a good choice for them based on academics, geography, etc. The OP has posted on other threads so just because he posted on this thread about British players does not mean he is only looking for internationals. A lot of coaches want Americans because internationals may only have $10k-$15k budget or less while Americans can pay more. I once had an international player stay with me while he was recruiting; he was offered a half ride to an above average university in a fun city. It sounded like a good deal to me but it was $10-$15K over his budget.
So does Dominican College even consider USA players or do they just jump straight to internationals....... not really surprised.
Look at other threads. He’s looking for players. Doesn’t appear to be only looking for Internationals at all.
So does Dominican College even consider USA players or do they just jump straight to internationals....... not really surprised.