Whats your top 10 of all time now (men)

I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Why don't you post Rosewall's grass tournament winning percentage of just the singles?

And also, why don't you post how many times Rosewall won the premium event on grass in a given year?
Because, I don't know you, but if there are two players that play Stuttgart, Queen's and Wimbledon and the first wins Stuttgart and Queen's and the second wins Wimbledon, I go with the second.
But probably you go with the first.....
Click to expand...
I don't go with anybody. That's not the theme. The theme is the performance on the surface. No matter where you play. The target is to win. If you don't win your surface ratio is going down. Rafa wants badly to win Barcelona, Madrid not only RG. Fed wants badly to win Halle not only Wim. It's not a matter of choice this or that, they want them both. And this is valid for all big champions.
We should respect the whole performance of the players. They spend their time and energy playing singles, doubles, team. This is something admirable. Big Mac has more than 70 doubles titles. I like that. And I respect that. No matter I don't like him as a person.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
I don't go with anybody. That's not the theme. The theme is the performance on the surface. No matter where you play. The target is to win. If you don't win your surface ratio is going down. Rafa wants badly to win Barcelona, Madrid not only RG. Fed wants badly to win Halle not only Wim. It's not a matter of choice this or that, they want them both. And this is valid for all big champions.
We should respect the whole performance of the players. They spend their time and energy playing singles, doubles, team. This is something admirable. Big Mac has more than 70 doubles titles. I like that. And I respect that. No matter I don't like him as a person.
Click to expand...
But still, why don’t you post them?
It could be interesting to see the winning ration in singles events of the “grass monster” Rosewall.
Somebody who never won Wimbledon as amateur. Never won Wimbledon in Open Era.
Never won the Tournament of Champions (both USA or Australia) during the Gonzales era. Lost 4-0 on grass to Gonzales during the WS 1960.
What is left for poor Kenny ?
Two US Pro during the Laver era (and that’s remarkable) and the sweep of the Australian grass tournaments in 61/62 (no Gonzales and no Laver around of course).
A true monster....
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Yep. Rafa is great on clay. The big difference is that Ken is great on all surfaces. No matter how you will call the achievements.
Click to expand...
Ken and Rafa are great on all surfaces.
Both of them.
With Rafa being A LOT greater on clay than Rosewall on any surface.
 
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
NoMercy said:
But still, why don’t you post them?
It could be interesting to see the winning ration in singles events of the “grass monster” Rosewall.
Somebody who never won Wimbledon as amateur. Never won Wimbledon in Open Era.
Never won the Tournament of Champions (both USA or Australia) during the Gonzales era. Lost 4-0 on grass to Gonzales during the WS 1960.
What is left for poor Kenny ?
Two US Pro during the Laver era (and that’s remarkable) and the sweep of the Australian grass tournaments in 61/62 (no Gonzales and no Laver around of course).
A true monster....
Click to expand...
Ken Rosewall's record at the six TOC events, 1957-1959 (all six on grass)


Rosewall had 0 wins in 6 events (winners Segura 1, Gonzales 3, Hoad 2) (Ken was runner-up at 1958 Forest Hills TOC)

Rosewall lost to Sedgman 3 times, lost to Gonzales 4 times, lost to Hoad 2 times
 
Last edited:
D

Dan Lobb

G.O.A.T.
Dan Lobb said:
Ken Rosewall's record at the six TOC events, 1957-1959 (all six on grass)


Rosewall had 0 wins in 6 events (winners Segura 1, Gonzales 3, Hoad 2) (Ken was runner-up at 1958 Forest Hills TOC)

Rosewall lost to Sedgman 3 times, lost to Gonzales 4 times, lost to Hoad 2 times
Click to expand...
Sorry, that was 3 losses by Rosewall to Sedgman.
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
But still, why don’t you post them?
It could be interesting to see the winning ration in singles events of the “grass monster” Rosewall.
Somebody who never won Wimbledon as amateur. Never won Wimbledon in Open Era.
Never won the Tournament of Champions (both USA or Australia) during the Gonzales era. Lost 4-0 on grass to Gonzales during the WS 1960.
What is left for poor Kenny ?
Two US Pro during the Laver era (and that’s remarkable) and the sweep of the Australian grass tournaments in 61/62 (no Gonzales and no Laver around of course).
A true monster....
Click to expand...
I already posted them in the resume.
Re Wim the typical stupid question. I didn't expect it from you. But why should I be surprised? You should know that Rosewall played there as a junior and then at 35. If he played in the late 50s and 60s he would have won at least 6-7 of them. Other great players like Gonz, Lendl also didn't win Wim but this fact doesn't make them less great.
If Rosewall has won more tournaments and tours you would say that the competition was weak. So and so you are not happy.
Poor Kenny? Ha-ha. Your dislike is famous but this doesn't change anything - 89 titles on grass, 80% win ratio on grass, 53% success ratio on grass. Calm down and relax!
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
I already posted them in the resume.
Re Wim the typical stupid question. I didn't expect it from you. But why should I be surprised? You should know that Rosewall played there as a junior and then at 35. If he played in the late 50s and 60s he would have won at least 6-7 of them. Other great players like Gonz, Lendl also didn't win Wim but this fact doesn't make them less great.
If Rosewall has won more tournaments and tours you would say that the competition was weak. So and so you are not happy.
Poor Kenny? Ha-ha. Your dislike is famous but this doesn't change anything - 89 titles on grass, 80% win ratio on grass, 53% success ratio on grass. Calm down and relax!
Click to expand...
No problems at all regarding Rosewall. He can say he was the best player of the world on grass 3/4 years all over his career. So I don't know how he could have won 6/7 Wimbledon :D
That was the meaning of the message, but I should have known that you offend yourself way too deep to get it.
There are players that can say they were the best for 7/8 years.
Still waiting for the singles tournaments winning percentage.
Without even doing it, I am positive Federer has a higher winning percentage (having 8 Wimbledon in it) than Rosewall, having what? 2 US Pro :D
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
I already posted them in the resume.
Re Wim the typical stupid question. I didn't expect it from you. But why should I be surprised? You should know that Rosewall played there as a junior and then at 35. If he played in the late 50s and 60s he would have won at least 6-7 of them. Other great players like Gonz, Lendl also didn't win Wim but this fact doesn't make them less great.
If Rosewall has won more tournaments and tours you would say that the competition was weak. So and so you are not happy.
Poor Kenny? Ha-ha. Your dislike is famous but this doesn't change anything - 89 titles on grass, 80% win ratio on grass, 53% success ratio on grass. Calm down and relax!
Click to expand...
Also, not sure why you talk about Lendl.
If you think Lendl was a top grass court player, you should start watching badminton.
Well, you should do it anyway
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Rosewall - The monster grass player

When poor Kenny was the best player of the world on grass?

Amateurs years : Hahaha
1957 : nope
1958 : nope
1959 : nope
1960 : not so much play on grass, but a nice 0-4 vs Gonzales in the WS, but let's be honest, he won the exhibition in Canberra!
1961 : not so much play on grass, season officially ended after South Africa so the Australian part should be considered as part of 1962, but we want to be generous and say yes (no Gonzales)
1962 : not so much play on grass, but let's say yes
1963 : yes
1964 : nope
1965 : yes
1966-67 : nope
Open Era : Hahaha

But for our mighty Ivan, he would have won AT LEAST 6/7 Wimbledon in 11 years.........
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
No problems at all regarding Rosewall. He can say he was the best player of the world on grass 3/4 years all over his career. So I don't know how he could have won 6/7 Wimbledon :D
That was the meaning of the message, but I should have known that you offend yourself way too deep to get it.
There are players that can say they were the best for 7/8 years.
Still waiting for the singles tournaments winning percentage.
Without even doing it, I am positive Federer has a higher winning percentage (having 8 Wimbledon in it) than Rosewall, having what? 2 US Pro :D
Click to expand...
Yes, yes. All know your attitude about Rosewall. If the time comes when you are objective then call me. The stats speak for themselves. I know you don't like them but that's the history.
I wrote it several times - 80%. Read carefully.
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Also, not sure why you talk about Lendl.
If you think Lendl was a top grass court player, you should start watching badminton.
Well, you should do it anyway
Click to expand...
I gave you an example that even some great players didn't win Wim. And that's not bad for their career resumes.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Yes, yes. All know your attitude about Rosewall. If the time comes when you are objective then call me. The stats speak for themselves. I know you don't like them but that's the history.
I wrote it several times - 80%. Read carefully.
Click to expand...
I asked for the tournaments winning percentage in singles. How many tournaments he won in singles out of how many he played.
Read carefully.
I am sure that stats will speak for themselves, it's history.
Regarding match winning percentage on grass, Federer has how much? 87%? Little higher than 80% right?
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Rosewall - The monster grass player

When poor Kenny was the best player of the world on grass?

Amateurs years : Hahaha
1957 : nope
1958 : nope
1959 : nope
1960 : not so much play on grass, but a nice 0-4 vs Gonzales in the WS, but let's be honest, he won the exhibition in Canberra!
1961 : not so much play on grass, season officially ended after South Africa so the Australian part should be considered as part of 1962, but we want to be generous and say yes (no Gonzales)
1962 : not so much play on grass, but let's say yes
1963 : yes
1964 : nope
1965 : yes
1966-67 : nope
Open Era : Hahaha

But for our mighty Ivan, he would have won AT LEAST 6/7 Wimbledon in 11 years.........
Click to expand...
Calm down and take a deeeeeep breath! ;)
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
I asked for the tournaments winning percentage in singles. How many tournaments he won in singles out of how many he played.
Read carefully.
I am sure that stats will speak for themselves, it's history.
Regarding match winning percentage on grass, Federer has how much? 87%? Little higher than 80% right?
Click to expand...
I told already like to a teenager. Everything matters. Take it.
Yep, Fed has 87% win ratio and 47.5% success ratio.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
I told already like to a teenager. Everything matters. Take it.
Yep, Fed has 87% win ratio and 47.5% success ratio.
Click to expand...
Ok, everything matters.
Also the doubles.
Hahaha

You understand that you are making a fool of yourself, right?
Let's see how many people will support your argument

Bye
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
I'm calm.
Just wrote what happened.
Let's see how many people will think Kenny could have won AT LEAST 6/7 Wimbledon in those years.
Click to expand...
Knowing here the "big love" to Kenny not much. But what the "lovers" think is different to what could really have happened.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
No response about Rafa's titles on grass and indoor???
Click to expand...
Nadal can say he was two years the best player on the world on grass (one beating Federer) and three years the best on hardcourt (two beating Djokovic).
Lendl can't say that about grass.
Rosewall can, that's why I said they were both great.
Indoor it's not a surface, I guess.....
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Knowing here the "big love" to Kenny not much. But what the "lovers" think is different to what could really have happened.
Click to expand...
It's not about love, it's about being realistic.
If you really think Rosewall could have won 6/7 Wimbledon in those 10 years (10 years because he actually lost at Wimbledon in 1967). you should see a doctor.
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Ok, everything matters.
Also the doubles.
Hahaha

You understand that you are making a fool of yourself, right?
Let's see how many people will support your argument

Bye
Click to expand...
The stats speak better than any support. The fact that many people don't know the careers of the players makes their opinion not objective. The fact that people like you ignore the careers of some players due to antipathies is bad just for you.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
The stats speak better than any support. The fact that many people don't know the careers of the players makes their opinion not objective. The fact that people like you ignore the careers of some players due to antipathies is bad just for you.
Click to expand...
The stats are correct.
Rosewall was the best player of the world on grass 3/4 years.
Stats and results don't lie, I agree
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Nadal can say he was two years the best player on the world on grass (one beating Federer) and three years the best on hardcourt (two beating Djokovic).
Lendl can't say that about grass.
Rosewall can, that's why I said they were both great.
Indoor it's not a surface, I guess.....
Click to expand...
2 years best on grass makes him great on grass overall !?!?! Good.

Oh, yeah, Rafa never liked indoor. So, Rafa was pretty good on clay and H outdoor. 2 out of 4.
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
It's not about love, it's about being realistic.
If you really think Rosewall could have won 6/7 Wimbledon in those 10 years (10 years because he actually lost at Wimbledon in 1967). you should see a doctor.
Click to expand...
It's called an assumption not reality.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
2 years best on grass makes him great on grass overall !?!?! Good.

Oh, yeah, Rafa never liked indoor. So, Rafa was pretty good on clay and H outdoor. 2 out of 4.
Click to expand...
Indoor is not a surface.
There are three surfaces now and Nadal when he is injury free is great on all of them.
On clay is more than great, more than any level of play Rosewall (and everybody else) has ever had.
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
The stats are correct.
Rosewall was the best player of the world on grass 3/4 years.
Stats and results don't lie, I agree
Click to expand...
Again you lost the point. The theme is not best grass player of the year. The theme is overall career performance on a specific surface.
When the stats are correct then use them not distort them.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Again you lost the point. The theme is not best grass player of the year. The theme is overall career performance on a specific surface.
When the stats are correct then use them not distort them.
Click to expand...
The theme is how good on grass a player was.
And Federer has 8 Wimbledon, Sampras 7, Laver 2+1+2 plus 3 US Pro, Borg 5.
Rosewall has 2 US pro.
And many titles in doubles, very important!
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Indoor is not a surface.
There are three surfaces now and Nadal when he is injury free is great on all of them.
On clay is more than great, more than any level of play Rosewall (and everybody else) has ever had.
Click to expand...
No? Maybe the playing conditions are the same !!! Maybe that's why Rafa doesn't like to play indoor not hard as a whole.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
But let's see deeper how poor Kenny performed on grass in big events.

We can say almost for sure he could not have won any Wimbledon 52-56 and 68-75.
Maybe for Ivan he could, but let's say no....

1957
Sydney : lost to Sedgman in SF
NY : 2-3 in the RR, lost to Trabert, Sedgman and Gonzales

1958
Melbourne : 2-3 in the RR, lost to Gonzales, Hoad and Sedgman, one victory for W/O !
NY : lost to Gonzales in F

1959
NY : lost to Hoad in SF
Sydney : lost to Gonzales in SF
He also lost the final of the tour end event in Melbourne, but just because he is a grass monster....

1960
No important events on grass, but a nice 0-4 vs Gonzales in the WS, the best way to be the favorite to win Wimbledon

1961
Only important event on grass, tournament in Sydney in December that is part of the 1961/62 Australian Tour.
Rosewall wins, but Pancho is retired

1962
Same as 1961, only important events are the Australian tournaments in January.
Rosewall wins.

1963
Winner of US Pro

1964
US Pro : lost to Laver in SF

1965
Winner of Us Pro

1966
Us Pro : lost to Laver in F

1967
Us Pro : lost to Gimeno in SF
Wimbledon : lost to Laver in F

Ladies and Gentlemen, the "at least" 6/7 Wimbledon champion. Kenny Rosewall!
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
The theme is how good on grass a player was.
And Federer has 8 Wimbledon, Sampras 7, Laver 2+1+2 plus 3 US Pro, Borg 5.
Rosewall has 2 US pro.
And many titles in doubles, very important!
Click to expand...
And the measurement of how good a player was is not your limited weird math. It is a combination of stats and ratios. It's not my problem that you don't like the stats and ratios because they don't fit to your idol. As usual by the way.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
No? Maybe the playing conditions are the same !!! Maybe that's why Rafa doesn't like to play indoor not hard as a whole.
Click to expand...
He doesn't like hard but he's great anyway when he is not injured.
And most of the time at the end of the years he is injured.
He seems to play pretty good indoor at the Slams
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
But let's see deeper how poor Kenny performed on grass in big events.

We can say almost for sure he could not have won any Wimbledon 52-56 and 68-75.
Maybe for Ivan he could, but let's say no....

1957
Sydney : lost to Sedgman in SF
NY : 2-3 in the RR, lost to Trabert, Sedgman and Gonzales

1958
Melbourne : 2-3 in the RR, lost to Gonzales, Hoad and Sedgman, one victory for W/O !
NY : lost to Gonzales in F

1959
NY : lost to Hoad in SF
Sydney : lost to Gonzales in SF
He also lost the final of the tour end event in Melbourne, but just because he is a grass monster....

1960
No important events on grass, but a nice 0-4 vs Gonzales in the WS, the best way to be the favorite to win Wimbledon

1961
Only important event on grass, tournament in Sydney in December that is part of the 1961/62 Australian Tour.
Rosewall wins, but Pancho is retired

1962
Same as 1961, only important events are the Australian tournaments in January.
Rosewall wins.

1963
Winner of US Pro

1964
US Pro : lost to Laver in SF

1965
Winner of Us Pro

1966
Us Pro : lost to Laver in F

1967
Us Pro : lost to Gimeno in SF
Wimbledon : lost to Laver in F

Ladies and Gentlemen, the "at least" 6/7 Wimbledon champion. Kenny Rosewall!
Click to expand...
Feel free to post single selective stats. This doesn't bother me.
I see you are getting more and more nervous. So keep calm and relax!
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
And the measurement of how good a player was is not your limited weird math. It is a combination of stats and ratios. It's not my problem that you don't like the stats and ratios because they don't fit to your idol. As usual by the way.
Click to expand...
Using the doubles is just a way to hide problems that Rosewall had as single player.
This is very clear to everybody is reading, no worries.
Again, let's see how many people will support your point of view.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
The grass monster.
I would say he would have won 9 Wimbledon, easy.
Only loss in 1959, because of a cold: very chilly weather in London that year
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
He doesn't like hard but he's great anyway when he is not injured.
And most of the time at the end of the years he is injured.
He seems to play pretty good indoor at the Slams
Click to expand...
Ha-ha. You are starting like Lobb and injured Hoad. But anyway. Rafa played too MANY times at ATP finals, Rotterdam, Paris, Basel etc. when he was NOT injured. He has 6 finals and 12 semis but he had the bad luck to loose mostly to Fed and Djok.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Ha-ha. You are starting like Lobb and injured Hoad. But anyway. Rafa played too MANY times at ATP finals, Rotterdam, Paris, Basel etc. when he was NOT injured. He has 6 finals and 12 semis but he had the bad luck to loose mostly to Fed and Djok.
Click to expand...
Indoor is not a surface.
He lost on hardcourt, that one is the surface.
Let him play indoor at NY and we will see what he does.
He can lose to Djokovic anyway because Nole is better than Rafa, but still Rafa is great
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Using the doubles is just a way to hide problems that Rosewall had as single player.
This is very clear to everybody is reading, no worries.
Again, let's see how many people will support your point of view.
Click to expand...
Ha-ha. You are still nervous and jealous on Kenny's career. But it's what it was. Take it.
 
N

NoMercy

Hall of Fame
Ivan69 said:
Ha-ha. You are still nervous and jealous on Kenny's career. But it's what it was. Take it.
Click to expand...
Very jealous.
I am really sad Federer or Sampras or Laver won so many Wimbledons.
Too bad they didn't lose so many times on big grass events like Kenny.
Being a great loser is important
 
I

Ivan69

Hall of Fame
NoMercy said:
Indoor is not a surface.
He lost on hardcourt, that one is the surface.
Let him play indoor at NY and we will see what he does.
He can lose to Djokovic anyway because Nole is better than Rafa, but still Rafa is great
Click to expand...
So, your initial statement that Rafa is great on all surfaces was proved to be wrong. Rafa is great on clay and hard outdoor and not great on grass and hard indoor. 2 of 4
 
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