Why You Dislike The Williams??
- Thread starter WayneCM
- Start date
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Gonna have to start using the quote for you
You took out the "It was well documented" part preceeding "Seles, Pierce (and later) Davenport were among the first "
Make my comment to you seem out of line so i'll edit it out
Facts are facts. Stating a documented history simply means the subject is in the record and cannot be denied; my personal account was responding to you since you assumed the document was my only source, when I never said or implied that (the ONE break you'll get is that you do not know me in the real world, so you may have assumed--however incorrect--that the document comment was my lone point of reference).
Again, taking Seles out of any assessment of the evolution of the power game is removing a significant part of the "movement"--like writing the story of a life and tossing out any reference to birth and childhood.
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Well said BP, and I agree wholeheartedly! I just wish so many of these people would quit using the "race card."
RafaN RichardG
Semi-Pro
can comeone please find me the last time she hasnt given credit to her opponent? thanks.
i mean she's only lost 5 matches in the past year...not many opportunities to rob her opponent of their credit
i mean she's only lost 5 matches in the past year...not many opportunities to rob her opponent of their credit
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Eviscerator
Banned
They cant help themselves being raised in a PC culture.
For more on the subject you can read this thread.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=81477
RafaN RichardG
Semi-Pro
what was your point in posting that
Hewitt rulez
Semi-Pro
I agree 100%. I can't stand how they downplay their opponents.
breakfast_of_champions
Banned
ok, how bout the finals in miami last weekend. serena commented she was looking forward to having a "fair" match with justine. a nice subtle reference to thier 2003 FO as being tainted.
Slazenger
Professional
oh lord. I guess our microwave society is to blame for this. Pls read through entire transcripts not just soundbites.
This comment is from the US open 05 QF which Clijsters won over Venus. Venus came out storming winning a set. Clijsters was slow in finding her form and was hitting junk around the court (not intentionally) which messed Venus up on some points but she lost concentration and Clijsters took the match. (Venus really should've won though, the way she was playing)
Anyway, hers was a reply to a leading question by the reporter who asked if Clijsters junk bothered her. She did NOT attribute it to her loss.
I can't believe this thread is still alive. With all the haters the WS have, they must be doing something right.
Slazenger
Professional
That's a lie. She did not say that. I know what she said but I will let you correct yourself.:roll:
(A little research never hurt anyone)
Also what does this have to do with giving credit to an opponent???
You are reaching...
Camilio Pascual
Hall of Fame
I agree with the other 99% of your post, but let's not get delusional and go overboard just because she has been mean sprited in those comments you reference.
An accurate description of her career is "Hall of Fame Career."
The vast majority of WTA players do not accomplish as much in their whole careers as Hingis has done just during her comeback.
Bjorn Borg, not Hingis, is the right example for a nowhere comeback.
Lau Shui Lin
Banned
It is because they defeated Pierce & Kournikova in any tournament.
Phil
Hall of Fame
Hey, Lau, aren't you and your mother, or son, or whatever, supposed to be on suicide watch? And what's with the secret spy camoflouge font?
Slazenger
Professional
Serena Williams at the Aus Open 06 after her loss to Hantuchova:
Q. How do you feel Daniela played?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I think she played well. She played the way she plays me. I played her in the past. She always plays very solid, and she definitely has a very -- I would describe her game as a solid game.
Q. Is it bothersome the way she faces the backstop a long time before playing a point?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Uhm, no. A couple -- a couple people I play do do that. Obviously, I play really fast. I just always play so fast. It's just the way I play. But, I mean, in the beginning, once I get used to it, by the time the third game comes around I'm used to it.
Q. So didn't upset your rhythm at all tonight?
SERENA WILLIAMS: What didn't upset my rhythm?
Q. The delays.
SERENA WILLIAMS: No. I mean, in the beginning it takes a little bit to get used to. But she just is a slower player. There's a few people that play slower. You just got to be able to get used to it.
(Please note that even though the reporter basically gave Serena ammo to USE Dani's delays as an excuse, Serena took the high road)
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WImbly 2004 final after her loss to Sharapova:
Q. You played Maria not too long ago. What was different in the Maria today than the one you played in March?
SERENA WILLIAMS: This is the final of Wimbledon. Before it was like the fourth round of Nasdaq. And there is a big difference. When anyone's in the final, you're going to give 300%. I think she treed a little bit today. I think she played her best tournament, her best tennis maybe in her life. But this is normal. I mean, I should have done the same thing in the final of Wimbledon. Why not?
Q. With her all-around game, all the assets she has, now a Slam championship, what kind of a threat do you think she is to reach the very top and be a threat at each of the Slams?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I think she's a big threat. I think, like I always say in all my interviews, I think everyone's a big threat. You just can't underestimate anyone. I think everyone is, yeah.
Q. But specifically her with this added confidence, do you think she's now at the very top group?
SERENA WILLIAMS: For sure, definitely. You can't say she's not. I mean, anyone that wins a Grand Slam, you've got to put them at the top.
Q. She has a habit of kind of making a fist pump, even after an error by you or an opponent. She'll kind of look over at the opponent. Is that something that everyone will just accept or do you think it will be something that will kind of grate on people?
SERENA WILLIAMS: People are so picky and stuff. If that's what she does, let her do it. You know, it's like you can't pick on -- if you're grunting too loud. Let her grunt. I grunt loud. I pump my fist. It's so minute, you can't let it bother you. And that doesn't bother me at all.
(If only some people on this board shared Serena's last viewpoint)
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2004 Rome Masters after her SF loss to Capriati
Q. What do you think the problem was today, was it your own errors, or was she dictating play completely?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, I think today it was a bit of both, for sure.
-----------------------------------
2003 Rome Masters after her SF loss to Mauresmo
Q. The last two games, up until 4-3 in the third set, it was very, very close, each game of the third set. The last two games it seemed like it was too easy for Amelie to win these two games. It seemed your first serve was very, very slow compared to all the rest of the game. What happened in these two last games?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Maybe she picked up the level of her game, I think. I just tried to take some pace off my first serve to try to at least get one in before the match was over (smiling).
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2001 Wimbledon after her QF loss to Jennifer Capriati
Q. You said the other day that at the French, it was an impostor out there in your place. Who was out there today and what physical struggles did you have to go through?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, I was definitely playing out there. I think in the end I lost the match because Jennifer just picked up her game and played a bit better.
Q. But right at that point when she served at Love-30, were you feeling okay, or did she just suck it up and play great tennis from that point?
SERENA WILLIAMS: I think, you know, she definitely sucked it up and started playing some great tennis at that point, for sure. I definitely think she went out there and just went for broke, didn't have anything to lose. So she was like, "I'm going to go for it all."
Q. When you look back on this match, how much do you think you'll attribute this loss to the way Capriati played and how much to the illness?
SERENA WILLIAMS: Like I said, I definitely think I should have won. I think she really picked up her game in the end. I think she really went out there, and I was up 30-Love. She really started turning her hips, hitting deep balls, really going for it. She definitely deserved the win because she picked up the level of her game, and mine kind of stayed at the same level.
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Afer her Miami 2001 QF loss to Capriati:
Q. Can you comment on that 10th game trailing 15-40 -- (inaudible)
? SERENA WILLIAMS: She hit a lot of big serves, nice points. It was --I think I made a few errors, so she was playing very well. She really went out there and didn't let anything get to her. Sometimes it is kind of hard to play someone who is on the other end limping and grimacing, but she handled it very well.
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I'm not saying she hasn't ever not given credit to her opponent, but pls read her transcripts and watch the matches and be informed about what you are saying that's all.
Slazenger
Professional
Oh btw, here are some snippets from the presser of this match:
Q. What turned it around?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Uhm, well, I think I was playing decent, you know. And she started playing like really bad, and it totally threw me off. She started hitting, like, these really weird shots and short balls and, like, just weird stuff. Just like it threw my game off. Next thing I knew, I was playing as bad as she was, and she was able to recover, it seemed like; I just wasn't. I guess maybe it was a good strategy (smiling).
Q. How were you feeling at the end of the first set? You seemed to really be confident.
VENUS WILLIAMS: Yeah, like I said, I was feeling decent. I don't think I was playing like my best, but I don't know, man, she started hitting these shots, low-confidence shots, too, short and strange. It just threw me off. It was just kind of unfortunate because I really had, you know, chances. But I don't know. Like I'm not used to that pace, and it was just weird.
Q. So, you know, serving-wise, you were serving fairly well up until then. Talk about towards the end of the second set. You guys were trading breaks.
VENUS WILLIAMS: I can't really remember exactly what happened. I just think, you know, I probably rushed a few shots. I think it wasn't necessarily my serve. I think my ground strokes kind of left me today. And, you know, I wasn't able to get into net the way I wanted to. My approach shots just were like not there. It was, uhm -- wasn't good, it wasn't good.
Q. Don't you think she defended well at times?
VENUS WILLIAMS: Yeah, she did, she did defend well. But at the same time, I feel like if my make my shot, fairly decent shot, even if she throws up an overhead or something like that, normally I'm going to be able to put that away. But the first thing is to get the approach shot in. That was a major barrier.
Q. So what happened in the third set? You come out, hold, then the wheels really came off there. You weren't hitting your forehand. Your serve speed went down. Was your stomach hurting, or mentally were you out of it?
VENUS WILLIAMS: No, she played well. My hip started hurting and I couldn't really -- I couldn't move. It felt like I couldn't move the way I wanted to. When my hip goes off, it's usually something like unbalance in my back or something. I just felt like even if I took a time-out, there probably wouldn't be any time to get it right unless for some reason the trainer found two injuries there and I got six minutes so... It kind of hurt my movement a lot which, you know, is a big strength. Also at my height, if I'm not in position, it's useless. I have to be in position to hit a good ball because I have long limbs so... You know, I still feel like she just played better, yeah.
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:roll:
thursdayisgod
Rookie
Why defend Serena/Venus when they are so easy to hate?
theballboy
Rookie
What also vexes me is the dislike for Richard Williams. Especially when you have Papa Yuri, who actually CHEATED by giving on court coaching to Maria during the USO last year. And then got fined for on court coaching during the Aussie Open this year.
Has Richard Williams ever broken the rules, or told his daughters to win a point unfairly?
Has Richard Williams ever broken the rules, or told his daughters to win a point unfairly?
pirateofthecarribean
Hall of Fame
C'mon man, give the Williams sisters a break already.
Eviscerator
Banned
As a response to the quoted post and my take on it I believe it is self evident if you read the linked thread.
Eviscerator
Banned
LOL
Who says disliking Richard Williams is mutually exclusive of not also disliking Papa Shriekapova?
theballboy
Rookie
There have been about three topics about Serena or the Williams family in the past couple of days. Most aren't even on events that have happened in the past several years. Seems kind of... selective.
pirateofthecarribean
Hall of Fame
Who cares about how people think about the Williamses. They (and their kids) will rule the courts of tennis whether people like it or not!
Eviscerator
Banned
LOL
She and her family are both loved and disliked. They probably deserve both adulation and disdain and will continue to have critics based on their opinions of themselves as well as others.
Azzurri
Legend
Who said people like Yuri?? I think he's a jerk and would tell him so to his face.
pirateofthecarribean
Hall of Fame
What excuses? Both Williams sisters have education, degrees and careers outside of tennis. Besides, they had every right to take some time off due to the murder of their older half-sister.
Azzurri
Legend
Not to sound rude, but are you sure about your post? What degrees...not a few online courses in fashion.....did you see her outfits (Serena)??/ They were pretty lame. I don't think a single person used the tragic death of her sister as a n excuse to act like jerks. They were not liked long before the detah of a family member. I don't know why you brought it up.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
In the isolated view of some; and who said there was a specific kind of "acceptable" reaction to death? Death triggers a variety of emotional responses not stamped in the textbook; from anger, to pathos, from hate to fear or other, innumerable reactions. No one is in a position to judge their experiences when you are not the one suffering in ways unique to the individual experiencing it.
Furthermore, has anyone EVER considered the possibility that their sister's murder coupled with the nonstop idiocy from race and/or woman-hating fools in the tennis world just may have led to their allegedly jerk-like behavior? As i've said before, Hingis got away with murder with her various insensitive if not hateful comments, yet two girls who actually had to deal with a significant segment of a sport culture riddled with a particular moral cancer are somehow in the wrong for their reaction (arguably, developing a "battle skin") to a completely undeserved situation.
Azzurri
Legend
I am not really disagreeing w/you, but their attitudes were there even before they got on the tour. Richard was and still is the strangest and dreadfully annoying person I have ever seen (on tv). They were "jerks" many, many years before ther sister died (very tragic and I feel for them).
I agree Hingis acted like a jerk too and I think she also received bad press (not like the Williams sisters), but remember when she made those comments...she was already a winner (GS). Richey's big mouth rubbed EVERYONE the wrong way and his girls did NOTHING at the time. Hingis may have been disrespectful of her peers, but she did not dump on the history of womens tennis like the sisters did. I admit I no longer dislike them (I just could care less). I do love the fact that Sharapova can't beat Serena... Sharapova I HATE>>>HATE>>>>HATE.
breakfast_of_champions
Banned
Not to sound rude, but are you sure about your post? What degrees...not a few online courses in fashion.....did you see her outfits (Serena)??/ They were pretty lame. I don't think a single person used the tragic death of her sister as a n excuse to act like jerks. They were not liked long before the detah of a family member. I don't know why you brought it up.
serena has a ph d in nuclear physics. now if she could only design a tennis dress that doesn't fit like the plastic on a pound of vacuum packed bacon.
iplaybetter
Hall of Fame
all of the above
ollinger
G.O.A.T.
There was a time when I didn't care for Venus and Serena but I've come to have real affection for them, perhaps because they seem more real than all the anorectic ice maidens (nobody will ever confuse Serena for an anorectic) with no personality and no realness. Their interests off the court make them more interesting and compelling, and it's amazing they've been able to maintain such a level of play in spite of those interests. And one rarely hears bitterness from them despite all the taunts (like that imbecile from Baku likening them to Mike Tyson on this board). They are almost always gracious and warm after a match (ever watch a Sharapova handshake?)
Azzurri
Legend
Slazenger
Professional
I liek to believe people can be open to reason and argue sensibly, but when it comes to the Williams (and Nadal, Federer, Sharapova etc) people can just be so obtuse.
People will continue to say they are arrogant and NEVER give their opponent credit, when I have given evidence to the contrary, and not just in recent years but going back to 2001.
Whatever your real reason for not liking the Williams is, jsut say so. But saying they dont' give their opponent credit is a LIE. So try again.
Very much agreed people love to hate the Williams for thinking of themselves in a sport tha requires it more so than any other sport. They are the trend setter for a lot of these young players to do. That's the trouble i guess with doing something first you get the stick for it the later players get congradulated on it.
Both Williams have managed to finish school, start companies and persue off court interests and deal with negative back lash from people that don't know what they have been going through then make it seem like they are as bad as the words they type.
It's only natural that they would want time out after a member of family was murdered and your grandmother dies tennis becomes the very last thing on your mind. Forgetting that at the time Seren so called turned her back on tennis she had achieved a hell of a lot in the game and on one right now on tour can catch her.
Its easy to hate someone with drive who doesn't listen to the no saysers of the world, carrying hating while she carries on winning.
u mean like serena's fashion career...:wink:
Eviscerator
Banned
I for one have said the whole family (parents and two daughters) fit that description along with other reasons. While you might be able to site an occasion where they have given credit to others, just as many if not more examples can be given by people where they have not.
In my case I see that they have matured some and are not as bad as they once were, but 1st impressions stay with you. When they first came up with Hingis and Kournikova, the four of them were arrogant, and had the "world revolves around me" attitude that turned many people off. I could not stand to listen to any of the 4 of them when they were interviewed. So while you may not like to accept people giving those reasons and suspect other more sinister motives, that is in fact a legitimate reason for not caring for them.
Azzurri
Legend
Well said! Great points made.
theballboy
Rookie
It's selective bias. Hingis has said worse, far more times, yet doesn't even warrant a thread. The Williams, apparently, deserve four in the span of one week.
pirateofthecarribean
Hall of Fame
Any anyone provide anything that backup the claim that the Williams are arrogant?
Azzurri
Legend
I don't know if your question is serious.
theballboy
Rookie
I think it is. Another poster has gave about ten instances where Serena and venus were gracious in defeat. To say that they are, in general, arrogant when losing, one would have to provide at least eleven instances where they made excuses for losing. This makes sense, right?
pirateofthecarribean
Hall of Fame
Ha ha! They can't!
Slazenger
Professional
Exactly. (I gave the instances of them crediting their opponent, not just in recent times but going back to 2001 and I'm sure there are more beyond that, that was just where I stopped. And that was only Serena I did, not even Venus.)
theballboy
Rookie
Give a specific example then. Are do you not have any, and just ASSUME shes arrogant, because that's what you've heard?
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
That would be a fruitless search. The opinion of sports writers, ex-players-now-commentators or fans on the internet may mean they are hostile/disgruntled/perhaps racially motivated in their thinking--but in no way does that prove--beyond the shadow of a doubt--that what they say is true. Not in the least. Additionally, Slazenger already posted counter-evidence to the charges...so, in absence of relevant evidence supporting the negative view, one can arrive at the logical conclusion that the negative side hates the sisters for reasons having nothing to do with the specifics of their sport or behavior....
Azzurri
Legend
Arrogant....you guys are really hard-headed. When these girls first came out they already claimed they will go down as the 2 greatest players in the history of tennis. Least we say they are no where near the greatest. As I said....I COULD CARE LESS than waste my time on a search and paste some of their comments that make them sound arrogant. This thread has ended for me at this point and I will no longer bother. If you think they were NOT arrogant...have another beer.
Thundervolley....not sure what you mean by your last statement, but your tone sounds rascist. If you are suggesting I don't care for the Williams sisters because they are African-American then you are sad piece of ****. Race has nothing to do w/me disliking the girls. And if you read my comments and had half a brain you would have understood that I no longer find them so annoying and root for Serena to beat Sharapova's *** every chance she gets.
Thundervolley....not sure what you mean by your last statement, but your tone sounds rascist. If you are suggesting I don't care for the Williams sisters because they are African-American then you are sad piece of ****. Race has nothing to do w/me disliking the girls. And if you read my comments and had half a brain you would have understood that I no longer find them so annoying and root for Serena to beat Sharapova's *** every chance she gets.
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