Is it time for this 2.5 to quit tennis?

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

I'm in my early 50s and I've been playing tennis on and off for 5 years. I took occasional six week classes here and there. I also worked with a team coach once a week when I played league tennis about four years ago (2.5 team) and only won a couple of matches out of I believe six. Since that time, still took the occasional class (combination of drills and match play). I'm clearly not a beginner (other students will often comment on that) but when I take intermediate classes (which usually contain 3.0s/3.5s it's clear that I'm not on their level). I did nothing since March 2020 until the past couple of months, when I've been taking classes (group and private) and playing with friends, on average 3 to 4 times a week. I'm also in two 3.0s league now (there aren't any 2.5 women's 40+ leagues in my area right now), with one team having a weekly practice with a coach. It's obvious from my first practice with the new team that I still have so many deficits. '

Even my serve, which I thought was pretty much set, was a mess during practice. One of my teammates told me to make sure I keep my hand up when the ball comes down, right before I hit it (and this is something I know I should do but for some reason I didn't during practice). She also told me how she practices her serve by taking a ball of baskets to the court and just hitting (I didn't want to tell her that I've done that many times and really if it weren't for that I wouldn't even be using the correct, continental grip). She also got excited when the coach was teaching us how to slice because she said at our age we don't have the power (although I think they all have more power than me) so the slice can be our weapon. Finally, we had some match play where the coach was my partner and when done he asked up what we learned. The same lady was like, "well, obviously she was the weaker player, so I was trying to hit powerful shots to her." I mean, the coach was the stronger player, but I still felt crushed.

I can volley, I did poach a couple of times, but sometimes I get so excited in the game play that I look ahead to where the ball is going and lose sight of it. Also, this coach keeps telling us to keep the eye on the ball at all times, but I've had friends and a really good, USTA coach tell me to watch the ball, but also watch the player on the opposite side of the net -- this coach said I can tell by their eyes and body where the ball is going to go before they hit it. There's just so much strategy and physical prowess involved in a game that I love, and I keep hearing that if I play more advanced people that my game will improve, but here I am, still clearly a 2.5 (maybe a 3.0 on a good day). So, I'm going to play out this short USTA season but I'm wondering if that should be it for me. I've spent what I considered a lot of time and money trying to improve, watching videos along the way as well -- instructional and professional. I'm not in the best physical shape, but neither are the women that are better than me. I think I am a coordinated person, I can follow dance choreography and execute it fairly well and I've even lost a few pounds, but when is it time to throw in the towel, or racket?

leech · Jun 11, 2021

If you enjoy the game (and it seems you do have a passion for it), keep plugging away. Incremental improvements will happen with more match play. Don't be so hard on yourself...we all have deficits, but fortunately play versus other players with similar deficits. Enjoy the journey and camaraderie of league tennis.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

leech said:
If you enjoy the game (and it seems you do have a passion for it), keep plugging away. Incremental improvements will happen with more match play. Don't be so hard on yourself...we all have deficits, but fortunately play versus other players with similar deficits. Enjoy the journey and camaraderie of league tennis.

Thank you, I do enjoy the game. It just seems like others around me enjoy it so much more.

Creighton · Jun 11, 2021

How are you doing in your 3.0 league matches?

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

I haven't played yet (first match is this weekend), but I know some of the other ladies on the other teams and the 2.5s have been 2.5s for many years and some of the 3.0s I knew when they were 2.5s (that's one league) and then the other league it seems like the 3.0s on my team and the other teams are solid 3.0s, possibly 3.5 (my team in this league has a couple of 2.5s that play somewhat like me, maybe a little better). We're already at a disadvantage because we need 7 players this weekend and we only have five available so we're already defaulting one court -- no pressure there!

Creighton · Jun 11, 2021

In my experiences 2.5 and 3.0 at the women's level is basically the same level. Then you have the obvious outliers who really should be 3.5s and are still at 3.0

bobleenov1963 · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I haven't played yet (first match is this weekend), but I know some of the other ladies on the other teams and the 2.5s have been 2.5s for many years and some of the 3.0s I knew when they were 2.5s (that's one league) and then the other league it seems like the 3.0s on my team and the other teams are solid 3.0s, possibly 3.5 (my team in this league has a couple of 2.5s that play somewhat like me, maybe a little better). We're already at a disadvantage because we need 7 players this weekend and we only have five available so we're already defaulting one court -- no pressure there!

you are already in your 50'. You should quit tennis and play golf instead.

nicklane1 · Jun 11, 2021

Don't give up. Looks like you love the game.
If you can, play more social matches. League puts too much pressure on you.
You will move, anticipate and get a better feel just by playing more.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

bobleenov1963 said:
you are already in your 50'. You should quit tennis and play golf instead.

I thought about golf, but the idea of being outside with mice and other animals as I've been told I'd encounter, is not really appealing to me! I do like the idea of me being responsible for my own successes and failures though, because we know in doubles when you lose it's always your partner's fault!

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

nicklane1 said:
Don't give up. Looks like you love the game.
If you can, play more social matches. League puts too much pressure on you.
You will move, anticipate and get a better feel just by playing more.

The leagues are super competitive in my area. It's exhilarating and annoying at the same time.

Chalkdust · Jun 11, 2021

Do you enjoy playing?
If yes, keep at it. Ultimately we're all just playing just because we enjoy it. None of us is earning a living from tennis.
If "not really":
Are you getting exercise out of it, and is it at least preferable to other forms of exercise for you?
If yes, keep at it.
If no, quit.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

Chalkdust said:
Do you enjoy playing?
If yes, keep at it. Ultimately we're all just playing just because we enjoy it. None of us is earning a living from tennis.
If "not really":
Are you getting exercise out of it, and is it at least preferable to other forms of exercise for you?
If yes, keep at it.
If no, quit.

I enjoy the game but when I'm reminded of my deficits, it's more of a chore. Yes, I love the exercise I get from it, so I guess I'm not quitting. I'll just play my less talented friends so I can feel better about myself! j/k (sort of).

Chalkdust · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I enjoy the game but when I'm reminded of my deficits, it's more of a chore. Yes, I love the exercise I get from it, so I guess I'm not quitting. I'll just play my less talented friends so I can feel better about myself! j/k (sort of).

Little secret... no matter how good you get at tennis, you will still have have many deficits, and you will still have many people who are better than you.
Doesn't matter whether you're a 2.5, 3.5, 4.5...
Well I guess if one is an active D1 college player or better, maybe above doesn't hold, but...

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I'm in my early 50s and I've been playing tennis on and off for 5 years. I took occasional six week classes here and there. I also worked with a team coach once a week when I played league tennis about four years ago (2.5 team) and only won a couple of matches out of I believe six. Since that time, still took the occasional class (combination of drills and match play). I'm clearly not a beginner (other students will often comment on that) but when I take intermediate classes (which usually contain 3.0s/3.5s it's clear that I'm not on their level). I did nothing since March 2020 until the past couple of months, when I've been taking classes (group and private) and playing with friends, on average 3 to 4 times a week. I'm also in two 3.0s league now (there aren't any 2.5 women's 40+ leagues in my area right now), with one team having a weekly practice with a coach. It's obvious from my first practice with the new team that I still have so many deficits. '

Even my serve, which I thought was pretty much set, was a mess during practice. One of my teammates told me to make sure I keep my hand up when the ball comes down, right before I hit it (and this is something I know I should do but for some reason I didn't during practice). She also told me how she practices her serve by taking a ball of baskets to the court and just hitting (I didn't want to tell her that I've done that many times and really if it weren't for that I wouldn't even be using the correct, continental grip). She also got excited when the coach was teaching us how to slice because she said at our age we don't have the power (although I think they all have more power than me) so the slice can be our weapon. Finally, we had some match play where the coach was my partner and when done he asked up what we learned. The same lady was like, "well, obviously she was the weaker player, so I was trying to hit powerful shots to her." I mean, the coach was the stronger player, but I still felt crushed.

I can volley, I did poach a couple of times, but sometimes I get so excited in the game play that I look ahead to where the ball is going and lose sight of it. Also, this coach keeps telling us to keep the eye on the ball at all times, but I've had friends and a really good, USTA coach tell me to watch the ball, but also watch the player on the opposite side of the net -- this coach said I can tell by their eyes and body where the ball is going to go before they hit it. There's just so much strategy and physical prowess involved in a game that I love, and I keep hearing that if I play more advanced people that my game will improve, but here I am, still clearly a 2.5 (maybe a 3.0 on a good day). So, I'm going to play out this short USTA season but I'm wondering if that should be it for me. I've spent what I considered a lot of time and money trying to improve, watching videos along the way as well -- instructional and professional. I'm not in the best physical shape, but neither are the women that are better than me. I think I am a coordinated person, I can follow dance choreography and execute it fairly well and I've even lost a few pounds, but when is it time to throw in the towel, or racket?

If you enjoy the game, you should keep playing.

If you want to improve, then there are many ways up the mountain.
- I'd start with committing to one coach with lessons every week or two and plenty of practice time in between so you can actually work on what you're learning.
- Work on the 3Fs [footwork, fitness, focus <mental toughness>, and spacing <the distance between your body and the ball>]; these are foundational elements that affect every part of your game
- Use video: you may think you know exactly what you're doing and be completely wrong. Share this video with your coach so he can offer feedback.
- Don't compare yourself to others; work out a timetable that's acceptable to you and ignore what others are doing. Too often I hear the complaint "So and So just started playing x months ago and is already better than I am after y years; I should quit.", ignoring that So and So might just have more aptitude and talent and athleticism, etc.
- Find a practice buddy who is around your level and just as committed as you are to improvement; that person will hold you accountable and vice versa

I'm biased because I want to see the game grow; stick with it!

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 11, 2021

Chalkdust said:
Little secret... no matter how good you get at tennis, you will still have have many deficits, and you will still have many people who are better than you.
Doesn't matter whether you're a 2.5, 3.5, 4.5...
Well I guess if one is an active D1 college player or better, maybe above doesn't hold, but...

The better I get, the better I'm able to see where my considerable flaws are.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Too often I hear the complaint "So and So just started playing x months ago and is already better than I am after y years; I should quit.", ignoring that So and So might just have more aptitude and talent and athleticism, etc.
- Find a practice buddy who is around your level and just as committed as you are to improvement; that person will hold you accountable and vice versa

I'm biased because I want to see the game grow; stick with it!

Good point because most of the ladies whose game I've admired were former athletes and I am not. One was really bad in the beginning, but she ended up getting a tennis court built at her house (definitely not an option for me) and well, the rest is history. I do have a friend who's probably been playing as long as me and is around my level. I've thought about us doing tournaments together, but we might want to get our skill set up. I also like your point about committing to one coach because while I like different perspectives it's becoming a bit much having different classes with different people. I like the USTA coach because she's a no-nonsense lady, she's a lefty like me, and she is the only one who has given me concrete strategy tips when I really needed it. Our (USTA) team coach is ok, but he's more expensive.

eah123 · Jun 11, 2021

@Sunshineanderson44
I think you have 2 main questions to answer.
First - do you still enjoy playing tennis? If yes, then you should not quit. If no, then quit and take up another sport. I think pickleball would be my top pick as the learning curve is not steep and it is very popular right now.
Second - can you get better? Most definitely, yes.

As my wife plays USTA 40+ 3.0 and is age 47, what I have observed is that professional coaches generally do not do a good job at helping ladies get better. I've done more in the last 2 months to help my wife become a winning player than all of the clinics and private lessons that she has taken (tens of thousands of dollars).

She has been playing USTA 3.0 since 2018 and got tired of being a losing player, and wanted to quit. I offered to help her out and she accepted as a "last resort".

What I believe the problem with adult improvement is that in clinics, the focus is on doing drills that do not match up well with actual game situations, and do not take a comprehensive approach to developing a winning strategy. Private lessons focus too much on stroke production, whereas adult players in the 3.0 range are better served to use the strokes they have already developed in a winning strategy.

What opened my eyes to this was discovering the Previdi System for doubles, which I later learned is similar to the California Doubles system. Basically, a rec-level team up to 4.0 can become a winning team with only pushes, lobs, and volleys using a simple system. The system is the key to understanding how to position, and where to hit to. Now, if a you have a successful doubles team that can execute the system, they can improve it by adding top spin, overheads, spin serves, backhand slice, or whatever strokes they might be working on with a coach, or not. Having a winning system to fall back on, allows players to feel confident to experiment with new strokes and thus, improve.

I'm not aware of any "systems" that are similar to the Previdi system for singles. But I reasoned, why can't we do something like that for singles? What I did was reviewed with my wife 1) the most common playing styles of the singles opponents she faced and 2) what strokes she felt "confident" in executing (pushes, lite top spin forehands, volleys close to net, and lobs to mid-court). Using that information, I created a "3.0 singles system" for her. The system basic consists of hitting consistent, safe shots to mid court, waiting for a short high ball to hit 80% hard to an area of the court with lots of safe margin, and looking for a put-away volley if necessary. After reviewing the strategy with her, I pretended to play one of the 3.0 singles styles against her, and she practiced executing the system.

Her first match playing #1 singles, she had difficulty executing the system, split the 2 sets and barely eked out a victory in the tiebreak. She said her problem was not being patient enough to continuously hit safe shots. Then right before her second match (2 weeks later), I could tell when I practiced with the system with her that it "clicked", and basically guaranteed in my head that she would win. She won 6-2 6-3 vs. what she felt was a good 3.0 player. She told she could not believe how easy it felt, and she did not even feel tired after. Also, she said that near the end of the 2nd set, since she had already broken her opponent twice, she felt confident to hit forehands harder, which basically crushed the opponent's spirit. In my opinion, she's now good enough to beat any 3.0 lady, and has a very good chance of being computer rated 3.5 next year!

Mongolmike · Jun 11, 2021

Reading your post, you said no 40+ 2.5 league. Does that mean there is an 18+ 2.5 league?
If so, do not worry about the age thing. Every level- 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 etc, men and womens, have people 40+, 50+, and yes 60+ on an 18+ roster.
Contact the captain, see if she needs another player. You might still get in 3 or 4 matches if she has a small roster, plus you will meet others at your level. I would do this immediately if you really want to play 2.5 league.
Do not be concerned that there are a bunch of young ones running around. They too are 2.5s, so you are all at same skill level.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

eah123 said:
@Sunshineanderson44
I think you have 2 main questions to answer.
First - do you still enjoy playing tennis? If yes, then you should not quit. If no, then quit and take up another sport. I think pickleball would be my top pick as the learning curve is not steep and it is very popular right now.
Second - can you get better? Most definitely, yes.

As my wife plays USTA 40+ 3.0 and is age 47, what I have observed is that professional coaches generally do not do a good job at helping ladies get better. I've done more in the last 2 months to help my wife become a winning player than all of the clinics and private lessons that she has taken (tens of thousands of dollars).

She has been playing USTA 3.0 since 2018 and got tired of being a losing player, and wanted to quit. I offered to help her out and she accepted as a "last resort".

What I believe the problem with adult improvement is that in clinics, the focus is on doing drills that do not match up well with actual game situations, and do not take a comprehensive approach to developing a winning strategy. Private lessons focus too much on stroke production, whereas adult players in the 3.0 range are better served to use the strokes they have already developed in a winning strategy.

What opened my eyes to this was discovering the Previdi System for doubles, which I later learned is similar to the California Doubles system. Basically, a rec-level team up to 4.0 can become a winning team with only pushes, lobs, and volleys using a simple system. The system is the key to understanding how to position, and where to hit to. Now, if a you have a successful doubles team that can execute the system, they can improve it by adding top spin, overheads, spin serves, backhand slice, or whatever strokes they might be working on with a coach, or not. Having a winning system to fall back on, allows players to feel confident to experiment with new strokes and thus, improve.

I'm not aware of any "systems" that are similar to the Previdi system for singles. But I reasoned, why can't we do something like that for singles? What I did was reviewed with my wife 1) the most common playing styles of the singles opponents she faced and 2) what strokes she felt "confident" in executing (pushes, lite top spin forehands, volleys close to net, and lobs to mid-court). Using that information, I created a "3.0 singles system" for her. The system basic consists of hitting consistent, safe shots to mid court, waiting for a short high ball to hit 80% hard to an area of the court with lots of safe margin, and looking for a put-away volley if necessary. After reviewing the strategy with her, I pretended to play one of the 3.0 singles styles against her, and she practiced executing the system.

Her first match playing #1 singles, she had difficulty executing the system, split the 2 sets and barely eked out a victory in the tiebreak. She said her problem was not being patient enough to continuously hit safe shots. Then right before her second match (2 weeks later), I could tell when I practiced with the system with her that it "clicked", and basically guaranteed in my head that she would win. She won 6-2 6-3 vs. what she felt was a good 3.0 player. She told she could not believe how easy it felt, and she did not even feel tired after. Also, she said that near the end of the 2nd set, since she had already broken her opponent twice, she felt confident to hit forehands harder, which basically crushed the opponent's spirit. In my opinion, she's now good enough to beat any 3.0 lady, and has a very good chance of being computer rated 3.5 next year!

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

I've seen ads for the Previdi system. I'll definitely check that out. I'm strictly doubles, but it's awesome how you were apply to coach a winning system to your wife. The problem with league play, from what I remember, is you're usually randomly placed with another player on the team, so there's not a chance to build a relationship/partnership and learn each other's style of play.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

Mongolmike said:
Reading your post, you said no 40+ 2.5 league. Does that mean there is an 18+ 2.5 league?
If so, do not worry about the age thing. Every level- 3.0, 3.5, 4.0 etc, men and womens, have people 40+, 50+, and yes 60+ on an 18+ roster.
Contact the captain, see if she needs another player. You might still get in 3 or 4 matches if she has a small roster, plus you will meet others at your level. I would do this immediately if you really want to play 2.5 league.
Do not be concerned that there are a bunch of young ones running around. They too are 2.5s, so you are all at same skill level.

There are no 2.5 leagues of any age for women close by. The 2.5 league I played with a few years ago is still around, but the matches were just too distant and I was drained driving to and from there for practices and matches.

eah123 · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
The problem with league play, from what I remember, is you're usually randomly placed with another player on the team, so there's not a chance to build a relationship/partnership and learn each other's style of play.

It depends on your team captain. On the better teams, you are paired with another player and play together as a doubles team the entire season. If there is someone you like playing with, you can request to be paired with them.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I've seen ads for the Previdi system. I'll definitely check that out. I'm strictly doubles, but it's awesome how you were apply to coach a winning system to your wife. The problem with league play, from what I remember, is you're usually randomly placed with another player on the team, so there's not a chance to build a relationship/partnership and learn each other's style of play.

Read *The Art of Doubles* by Blaskower.

Here are some vids which might be instructive:

puppybutts · Jun 11, 2021

if you enjoy it, keep playing. don't fret what other people say, there is always someone better or worse than you, no matter how good or bad a player you are...that person saying you are "obviously the weaker player" is going to be the weaker player on a different day in a different match.

it sounds like you just need to find people at your level you enjoy playing with. have you tried looking outside of leagues and simply for new hitting partners/friends? could try asking local clubs/stringers/leagues for any leads, or even a list they might be carrying. or if you find a random in league that you like playing against, try to be friendly and get their contact info, ask if they're looking for a hitting partner and interested meeting outside of league.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Read *The Art of Doubles* by Blaskower.

Here are some vids which might be instructive:

Thank you!!!

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 11, 2021

I've played with friends from my beginner class and I'm generally a little stronger than them. Perhaps that's what gave me the false sense of security that I could do league play again. I figured if I was playing socially anyway, then I might as well do league for regular play and then maybe I'd get a chance to increase my rating.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 11, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I've played with friends from my beginner class and I'm generally a little stronger than them. Perhaps that's what gave me the false sense of security that I could do league play again. I figured if I was playing socially anyway, then I might as well do league for regular play and then maybe I'd get a chance to increase my rating.

Some people play as well as, if not better than, in competition than in social play. But the vast majority do not. That's a whole different kettle of fish when it comes to improvement: the mental toughness angle.

Ruark · Jun 11, 2021

Focus on the ball. On all strokes, including the serve, focus on swinging the racket head through a stationary impact point, and continue focusing on that impact point as long as you can. Watch Federer sometime; his shot is already crossing the net, and he's still focused on the impact point. If you don't do this, especially at your level, it will poison your play, no matter HOW good the rest of your stroke is. Trust me.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

Ruark said:
Focus on the ball. On all strokes, including the serve, focus on swinging the racket head through a stationary impact point, and continue focusing on that impact point as long as you can. Watch Federer sometime; his shot is already crossing the net, and he's still focused on the impact point. If you don't do this, especially at your level, it will poison your play, no matter HOW good the rest of your stroke is. Trust me.

Thank you!!!

weelie · Jun 12, 2021

Happiness comes from commiting, then improving. It takes time, unless you are a kid. There are always people better than you (who most definitely just have spent more time with the sport), and people not as good as you. It is a process, love it as such. To get better you need repeatable strokes, and a lot repetition. I use a soft foam kids ball to hit volley’s at a bedroom wall almost every day. Not because it necessarily makes me better, but because I like it and makes me feel like kid again. I am not religious, but I thank higher powers for every time I get to the court, …and all successes and all losses make me better. I meet people, I enjoy the outdoors, so many positives.

Then again, there’s padel, pickleball and what not, you might want to branch out and check other similar games to play, in addition to or instead of tennis.

Stats say that racket sport players stay healthy the longest time. Ageing well is just one item of the long list of reason to choose tennis. I sometimes play doubles sets with a guy who’s just short of 85. We play it slower paced, but he’s actually pretty good!

I am almost 50. I think I play better than ever, though I feel I am 10 years slower than I was just 5 years ago (when I got back to tennis). splitting my time between doubles and singles, hoping to get ahead of the doubles game before I get old. Actually played in our club’s doubles league (6 matches per season, so 12 a year) for like 4 years without a win (only won a set once!). Then last fall, we won all the 6 matches. This spring, mostly wins again. There’s always the good and bad days but I think I am getting better at analyzing (and even working around them)!

In the local singles league, last year I finally started climbing up the ranks. After like 3 years of seesawing up and down.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

weelie said:
Happiness comes from commiting, then improving. It takes time, unless you are a kid. There are always people better than you (who most definitely just have spent more time with the sport), and people not as good as you. It is a process, love it as such. To get better you need repeatable strokes, and a lot repetition. I use a soft foam kids ball to hit volley’s at a bedroom wall almost every day. Not because it necessarily makes me better, but because I like it and makes me feel like kid again. I am not religious, but I thank higher powers for every time I get to the court, …and all successes and all losses make me better. I meet people, I enjoy the outdoors, so many positives.

Then again, there’s padel, pickleball and what not, you might want to branch out and check other similar games to play, in addition to or instead of tennis.

Stats say that racket sport players stay healthy the longest time. Ageing well is just one item of the long list of reason to choose tennis. I sometimes play doubles sets with a guy who’s just short of 85. We play it slower paced, but he’s actually pretty good!

I am almost 50. I think I play better than ever, though I feel I am 10 years slower than I was just 5 years ago (when I got back to tennis). splitting my time between doubles and singles, hoping to get ahead of the doubles game before I get old. Actually played in our club’s doubles league (6 matches per season, so 12 a year) for like 4 years without a win (only won a set once!). Then last fall, we won all the 6 matches. This spring, mostly wins again. There’s always the good and bad days but I think I am getting better at analyzing (and even working around them)!

In the local singles league, last year I finally started climbing up the ranks. After like 3 years of seesawing up and down.

I feel like I've committed and improved, but I'm that frustrating middle area of advanced beginner/lo intermediate and I don't feel like I fit in and at this age I'm not getting any faster so that is a detriment. I do enjoy ping pong. I guess that's not considered a racket sport, though!

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I feel like I've committed and improved, but I'm that frustrating middle area of advanced beginner/lo intermediate and I don't feel like I fit in and at this age I'm not getting any faster so that is a detriment. I do enjoy ping pong. I guess that's not considered a racket sport, though!

I generally ignore the age of the group and concentrate more on the skill sets.

If you're not getting any faster, you have to get better at positioning. That's what the first Essential Tennis video was about.

Get the opinions of @Cindysphinx and @OnTheLine for Women's doubles specifically.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
I generally ignore the age of the group and concentrate more on the skill sets.

If you're not getting any faster, you have to get better at positioning. That's what the first Essential Tennis was about.

Get the opinions of @Cindysphinx and @OnTheLine for Women's doubles specifically.

Like in the first video, following the ball (consistently) is definitely going to help me. I've done that before, but then I heard conflicting info to not always do it. I don't know, sometimes I feel like I'm giving myself away if I move with the ball but as long as everyone else is moving with it then it makes perfect sense. The other night at practice, I was in the middle of the service box, where I've been told to stand, and my captain on the opposite side hits one down the line that I couldn't get to because I was in the middle of the service box -- I really don't remember if I was following the ball in that instance, probably not.

The other night the team coach (who I've had private lessons with before) was like, "I see I need to teach you about the triangle". I know what the triangle is, how much court I should cover, but I didn't do it -- he, of course, didn't say anything else about it or teach me about the triangle.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
Like in the first video, following the ball (consistently) is definitely going to help me. I've done that before, but then I heard conflicting info to not always do it. I don't know, sometimes I feel like I'm giving myself away if I move with the ball but as long as everyone else is moving with it then it makes perfect sense. The other night at practice, I was in the middle of the service box, where I've been told to stand, and my captain on the opposite side hits one down the line that I couldn't get to because I was in the middle of the service box -- I really don't remember if I was following the ball in that instance, probably not.

The other night the team coach (who I've had private lessons with before) was like, "I see I need to teach you about the triangle". I know what the triangle is, how much court I should cover, but I didn't do it -- he, of course, didn't say anything else about it or teach me about the triangle.

That's the complication of doubles: if you're correctly positioned but your partner is not, your team loses the point. If your partner doesn't know correct positioning, she'll blame you. Trying to explain to one's partner in the heat of battle that she's not in the right place is typically fruitless. You have to be on the same page prior to the match starting.

Tennis is also situational: shading [moving with the ball] is optimal almost all of the time. But that doesn't mean dogmatically following it all of the time; you have to know when to do something differently. At your level, I'd just stick with the principles and worry about when to break them later.

sometimes I feel like I'm giving myself away if I move with the ball

The first order of business is to cover the high % areas. If you move with the ball, you are doing just that. If you fail to move with the ball, you are leaving high % areas open and covering the low % areas. That's a recipe for losing.

This is what Ian talks about in the first video. Yes, it makes things a lot easier if everyone is doing it but you have to learn the basics; you can't control your partner.

The other night at practice, I was in the middle of the service box, where I've been told to stand, and my captain on the opposite side hits one down the line that I couldn't get to because I was in the middle of the service box -- I really don't remember if I was following the ball in that instance, probably not.

You won't be able to reach every ball. The idea behind positioning is to make things as difficult as possible for your opponent; you can't make them impossible.

Middle of the service box might be good positioning laterally depending on where your opponent is standing: if he's in the same lateral position as you, it's probably good. If he's standing in the alley, it's probably not: you need to be closer to the alley.

Remember: court geometry is fixed but positional geometry changes as the ball moves. That's why Ian and the other 3 in the demo are always moving.

Watch high-level women's doubles and watch how the net women move: almost all are doing some variation of the triangle. No one is just standing there watching the ball go back and forth. If you just keep bouncing on your feet and doing the triangle, that will transform your net game: you'll find the ball isn't moving as fast as it was previously because you're way more prepared and you might even be able to intercept a few that previously you just let go by.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
If you just keep bouncing on your feet and doing the triangle, that will transform your net game: you'll find the ball isn't moving as fast as it was previously because you're way more prepared and you might even be able to intercept a few that previously you just let go by.

Yes, that's the thing. I'm wondering if the issue is the pace of the ball with the 3.0s I play with because I feel like I'm getting to the ball in some of those instances, even making contact, but it's too late to make it over the net.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
Yes, that's the thing. I'm wondering if the issue is the pace of the ball with the 3.0s I play with because I feel like I'm getting to the ball in some of those instances, even making contact, but it's too late to make it over the net.

Work on positioning and being dynamic [don't stand flat-footed]; a lot of good things will result.

You can also work on specific drills where someone simulating the opponent on the BL hits fast balls through the middle and you can start to get comfortable when to attempt a volley. As your experience increases, your range will increase. Make sure the feeder goes DTL occasionally just to keep you honest. Recognize that getting beat DTL is just part of the game. If you never get beat DTL, you are leaving too much middle open and the middle is where the match will be decided.

Think of the middle as Park Place and Boardwalk in Monopoly; the alleys are Baltic and Mediterranean. Which would you rather control?

Right now, you are probably tentative, worried about blowing the volley and disappointing your partner? A high-level doubles team understands there will be mistakes; the important point is that you made the % play.

Having a simpatico partner is crucial when you're learning; otherwise, you end up compromising, doing non-optimal things, just to compensate for your partner. That's a poor way to learn because you'll have to unlearn that stuff as you move higher.

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Right now, you are probably tentative, worried about blowing the volley and disappointing your partner?

This pretty much sums it up!

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
This pretty much sums it up!

One thing that helps me is the mentality "The next ball is mine no matter what [unless it's a lob]!". I do this when I've signalled to my serving partner that I'm going to poach. Full commitment: no "I'll wait and see how things develop and then I'll decide." There's no time for that. You decide ahead of time and you go.

Now, you probably aren't at the stage yet where you're calling poaches but the idea is still the same: pick a point and simply decide you're going to poach. It will be terrifying at first, perhaps like contemplating jumping into a cold pool but once you get past the initial shock, you'll find the water is fine. You'll also find that your opponents do not have Djokovic returning skills and, while they will attempt to change direction and go DTL, they will frequently miss [ever try to deliberately hit into the alley? It's only 4.5' wide. it's tougher than it looks.]. They will also hit some returns in the middle that you can easily intercept if you just get a good jump on the return and stay calm with the volley [rather than swatting at it like a bee].

All of this takes practice, of course. But it will put you [and your partner] on the path to improvement. Again, watch the video and observe how the net woman was able, just with better positioning, to intercept and hit a volley winner. She didn't even have to poach.

But you need a partner who understands what you're trying to accomplish. If you have a partner who sighs loudly, drops her racquet, beseeches the heavens, criticizes you for taking "her" ball, it's a lost cause; get another partner.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
This pretty much sums it up!

Please tell me you do not have this type of partner:

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
Please tell me you do not have this type of partner:

Haha! I may have been guilty of some of this in the past.

OnTheLine · Jun 12, 2021

Hey!
Lots to unpack here.

I will start out with what I consider the most important:
Do you enjoy playing tennis?
Do you enjoy the competition?
Do you enjoy the camaraderie and the teams?

It is okay to play tennis on your own terms. If you enjoy group clinics and hitting with friends, it is okay to play tennis that way and not play competitively in a league environment. (me, I love the competition)

@Creighton just want to add there is a crazy big divide between 2.5 ladies tennis and 3.0 tennis. At least in those regions where 2.5 have their own leagues and aren't just diluting the 3.0 league.

In terms of improving the recipe is a combination of base athleticism (will determine your rate of improvement and your ceiling), good coaching and dedicated practice.

What are your goals? Do you want to enjoy tennis more? Want to be better relative to today? What to be bumped up to 3.0?

There are no wrong answers ... your goals are your own and are totally valid based on your own desires.

Be kind to yourself ... you just came back after over a year off the courts!

If you are looking to improve and want to play mostly doubles .... there are 3 keys here: Your volleys, your returns and your positioning.

If I were advising a 2.5 player, In terms of skills, I would have them do almost nothing other than working on return of serve and volleys. If they get to the point where they do not miss a return of serve (fairly easy at this level as serves are not fast and have low spin), and they have a competent proper volley, the rest becomes much easier.

Positioning: there is a lot of advice here .... most of it very good but it is easy to get lost in the weeds with so much information.

I see most 2.5 and 3.0 players learn to move with the ball but do so only laterally. They move side to side (a little, never enough) but not up and back. When you noted you were in "the middle of the service box" I am wondering how far you move off that spot. Most 2.5 and 3.0 players don't move anywhere near enough.

I was lucky to have an exceptional doubles coach early in my USTA league experience 5 years ago now. Drill after drill of situational positioning and proper shot placement. To the point that it is so engrained that I don't even think about it any more.

If you can with a group of 3 other ladies hire a good coach to work on nothing but positioning it would be a very good investment.

If you cannot do that (and I get it is hard to both find a good actual coach and others to commit to the instruction) then work on only a few positioning things yourself:

Perhaps the biggest game-changing advice I have ever actually followed: When you have a ball coming towards you .... move forwards to hit it, never backwards ... on every shot, every volley, every overhead.

If you can touch the net with your racket, you are too close and your opponents will abuse you. Can't react quickly enough for a shot with pace, very easy to lob over, you expose the T as well as the alley for easy passes. Just a disaster.

Serve:
The goal in doubles is to have a solid 1st serve that you can get in 70% of the time and can place where you want it. That alone will put a lot of pressure on the returner and will increase odds of holding your service game. Doesn't have to be high paced, but some spin and placement is key.
Your objective on serve is not to necessarily win the point with the serve but to set up the point so that your team is in an offensive position, you can get your net player involved for an easy volley, etc.
Yeah, aces are nice, but not all important ... we ain't John Isner.
Oh, and whoever said that women of a certain age can't have a well-paced serve .... yeah, not reality.

Do get even a 30 minute serving private lesson. Get the form down .... then practice it regularly. Don't practice with bad form!

Well, now I have written a book .... Hope a little of it helps

Fxanimator1 · Jun 12, 2021

Sunshineanderson44 said:
I'm in my early 50s and I've been playing tennis on and off for 5 years. I took occasional six week classes here and there. I also worked with a team coach once a week when I played league tennis about four years ago (2.5 team) and only won a couple of matches out of I believe six. Since that time, still took the occasional class (combination of drills and match play). I'm clearly not a beginner (other students will often comment on that) but when I take intermediate classes (which usually contain 3.0s/3.5s it's clear that I'm not on their level). I did nothing since March 2020 until the past couple of months, when I've been taking classes (group and private) and playing with friends, on average 3 to 4 times a week. I'm also in two 3.0s league now (there aren't any 2.5 women's 40+ leagues in my area right now), with one team having a weekly practice with a coach. It's obvious from my first practice with the new team that I still have so many deficits. '

Even my serve, which I thought was pretty much set, was a mess during practice. One of my teammates told me to make sure I keep my hand up when the ball comes down, right before I hit it (and this is something I know I should do but for some reason I didn't during practice). She also told me how she practices her serve by taking a ball of baskets to the court and just hitting (I didn't want to tell her that I've done that many times and really if it weren't for that I wouldn't even be using the correct, continental grip). She also got excited when the coach was teaching us how to slice because she said at our age we don't have the power (although I think they all have more power than me) so the slice can be our weapon. Finally, we had some match play where the coach was my partner and when done he asked up what we learned. The same lady was like, "well, obviously she was the weaker player, so I was trying to hit powerful shots to her." I mean, the coach was the stronger player, but I still felt crushed.

I can volley, I did poach a couple of times, but sometimes I get so excited in the game play that I look ahead to where the ball is going and lose sight of it. Also, this coach keeps telling us to keep the eye on the ball at all times, but I've had friends and a really good, USTA coach tell me to watch the ball, but also watch the player on the opposite side of the net -- this coach said I can tell by their eyes and body where the ball is going to go before they hit it. There's just so much strategy and physical prowess involved in a game that I love, and I keep hearing that if I play more advanced people that my game will improve, but here I am, still clearly a 2.5 (maybe a 3.0 on a good day). So, I'm going to play out this short USTA season but I'm wondering if that should be it for me. I've spent what I considered a lot of time and money trying to improve, watching videos along the way as well -- instructional and professional. I'm not in the best physical shape, but neither are the women that are better than me. I think I am a coordinated person, I can follow dance choreography and execute it fairly well and I've even lost a few pounds, but when is it time to throw in the towel, or racket?

Ball machine.

It will build your confidence. Set it at a higher pace than what you see in your live hitting sessions, It will feel like those guys are hitting balls to you in slow motion once you are used to a higher paced ball.

It gives you a chance to hit a LOT of balls, and that builds confidence.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Fxanimator1 said:
Ball machine.

It will build your confidence. Set it at a higher pace than what you see in your live hitting sessions, It will feel like those guys are hitting balls to you in slow motion once you are used to a higher paced ball.

It gives you a chance to hit a LOT of balls, and that builds confidence.

One thing about a ball machine, though: you don't get the visual feedback that allows you to know when opponent contact is about to be made. For someone at the net, this is critical.

Creighton · Jun 12, 2021

OnTheLine said:
@Creighton just want to add there is a crazy big divide between 2.5 ladies tennis and 3.0 tennis. At least in those regions where 2.5 have their own leagues and aren't just diluting the 3.0 league.

I can see how this could just deflate your ratings and make 3.0 in your area truly a 3.5 level in other regions. But in our area the "2.5"s are all generally better than the ladies that have stuck around at 3.0 and never progressed to 3.5.

Fxanimator1 · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
One thing about a ball machine, though: you don't get the visual feedback that allows you to know when opponent contact is about to be made. For someone at the net, this is critical.

True, you don’t actually see the person on the other side of the net going into contact, in order for you to initiate your split step, but you can split step using timing.
Hitting a ton of volleys or ground strokes builds confidence.
As long as a coach is involved to ensure proper form, it’s a great way to feel comfortable hitting balls.

S&V-not_dead_yet · Jun 12, 2021

Fxanimator1 said:
True, you don’t actually see the person on the other side of the net going into contact, in order for you to initiate your split step, but you can split step using timing.
Hitting a ton of volleys or ground strokes builds confidence.
As long as a coach is involved to ensure proper form, it’s a great way to feel comfortable hitting balls.

For repetition and accessibility, the ball machine can't be beat.

OnTheLine · Jun 12, 2021

Creighton said:
I can see how this could just deflate your ratings and make 3.0 in your area truly a 3.5 level in other regions. But in our area the "2.5"s are all generally better than the ladies that have stuck around at 3.0 and never progressed to 3.5.

LOL yes ... that is its own peculiar subset of players. Those that are 2.5 or 3.0 for life. I began at 3.0 when I came back to tennis after a 20 year break (never had any real training of any sort before) was 47 .... now am a 3.5 knocking on the door to 4.0 but kind of hoping the door doesn't open

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

OnTheLine said:
Hey!
Lots to unpack here.

I will start out with what I consider the most important:
Do you enjoy playing tennis?
Do you enjoy the competition?
Do you enjoy the camaraderie and the teams?

It is okay to play tennis on your own terms. If you enjoy group clinics and hitting with friends, it is okay to play tennis that way and not play competitively in a league environment. (me, I love the competition)

@Creighton just want to add there is a crazy big divide between 2.5 ladies tennis and 3.0 tennis. At least in those regions where 2.5 have their own leagues and aren't just diluting the 3.0 league.

In terms of improving the recipe is a combination of base athleticism (will determine your rate of improvement and your ceiling), good coaching and dedicated practice.

What are your goals? Do you want to enjoy tennis more? Want to be better relative to today? What to be bumped up to 3.0?

There are no wrong answers ... your goals are your own and are totally valid based on your own desires.

Be kind to yourself ... you just came back after over a year off the courts!

If you are looking to improve and want to play mostly doubles .... there are 3 keys here: Your volleys, your returns and your positioning.

If I were advising a 2.5 player, In terms of skills, I would have them do almost nothing other than working on return of serve and volleys. If they get to the point where they do not miss a return of serve (fairly easy at this level as serves are not fast and have low spin), and they have a competent proper volley, the rest becomes much easier.

Positioning: there is a lot of advice here .... most of it very good but it is easy to get lost in the weeds with so much information.

I see most 2.5 and 3.0 players learn to move with the ball but do so only laterally. They move side to side (a little, never enough) but not up and back. When you noted you were in "the middle of the service box" I am wondering how far you move off that spot. Most 2.5 and 3.0 players don't move anywhere near enough.

I was lucky to have an exceptional doubles coach early in my USTA league experience 5 years ago now. Drill after drill of situational positioning and proper shot placement. To the point that it is so engrained that I don't even think about it any more.

If you can with a group of 3 other ladies hire a good coach to work on nothing but positioning it would be a very good investment.

If you cannot do that (and I get it is hard to both find a good actual coach and others to commit to the instruction) then work on only a few positioning things yourself:

Perhaps the biggest game-changing advice I have ever actually followed: When you have a ball coming towards you .... move forwards to hit it, never backwards ... on every shot, every volley, every overhead.

If you can touch the net with your racket, you are too close and your opponents will abuse you. Can't react quickly enough for a shot with pace, very easy to lob over, you expose the T as well as the alley for easy passes. Just a disaster.

Serve:
The goal in doubles is to have a solid 1st serve that you can get in 70% of the time and can place where you want it. That alone will put a lot of pressure on the returner and will increase odds of holding your service game. Doesn't have to be high paced, but some spin and placement is key.
Your objective on serve is not to necessarily win the point with the serve but to set up the point so that your team is in an offensive position, you can get your net player involved for an easy volley, etc.
Yeah, aces are nice, but not all important ... we ain't John Isner.
Oh, and whoever said that women of a certain age can't have a well-paced serve .... yeah, not reality.

Do get even a 30 minute serving private lesson. Get the form down .... then practice it regularly. Don't practice with bad form!

Well, now I have written a book .... Hope a little of it helps

I enjoy playing tennis.

I don't enjoy competition (or certain classes I've taken) because I'm not as good as the players I've played against. I first got into leagues because I was encouraged to do so by my then boyfriend, who was a 4.0 and on about 12 teams (no lie -- there's a lot of tennis in my area and neighboring vicinities) in a year. I was playing tennis before I met him, but most people thought he introduced me to tennis. I never felt comfortable playing league, but now, a few years later, I kind of feel like I have something to prove to the ladies I used to play with, as I will certainly come across them, but really the bigger part is my love for the game and wanting to play regularly.

I like the camaraderie but I'm just feeling out my two teams that I'm now because another thing I've learned about tennis is people only really love you when you're good. The captain I had four years ago though was great, very supportive.

I've only used the ball machine once, in my beginner class, and it was a lot of fun so I definitely would like to incorporate that into my training.

OnTheLine · Jun 12, 2021

S&V-not_dead_yet said:
For repetition and accessibility, the ball machine can't be beat.

But repeating what exactly? If the fundamentals on groundstrokes and volleys aren't there, you are repeating poor technique which will get you nowhere ... but may invite an injury. I don't think a ball machine is a good choice for any lower level player

Sunshineanderson44 · Jun 12, 2021

OnTheLine said:
LOL yes ... that is its own peculiar subset of players. Those that are 2.5 or 3.0 for life. I began at 3.0 when I came back to tennis after a 20 year break (never had any real training of any sort before) was 47 .... now am a 3.5 knocking on the door to 4.0 but kind of hoping the door doesn't open

I just want to be a solid 2.5 or 3.0. I have no problem staying there.

Is it time for this 2.5 to quit tennis?

New User

Semi-Pro

New User

Professional

New User

Professional

Hall of Fame

Rookie

New User

New User

Professional

New User

Professional

Talk Tennis Guru

Talk Tennis Guru

New User

Professional

Hall of Fame

New User

New User

New User

Professional

Talk Tennis Guru

Hall of Fame

New User

New User

Talk Tennis Guru

Professional

New User

Professional

New User

Talk Tennis Guru

New User

Talk Tennis Guru

New User

Talk Tennis Guru

New User

Talk Tennis Guru

Talk Tennis Guru

New User

Hall of Fame

Hall of Fame

Talk Tennis Guru

Professional

Hall of Fame

Talk Tennis Guru

Hall of Fame

New User

Hall of Fame

New User

Similar threads