Video Serve analysis by members

Y

Yyc_tennis

New User
Hi Guys,

I've been quite frustrated with my serve and tried to change a million things from my stance to my toss to my pre throw position. Nothing seems to work ... I feel like I'm not using my legs properly (knee bend and power to push up) and also struggling with my timing (especially my dominant hand)

I'll let you guys take a look at the video and share your thoughts.

Video Link : https://streamable.com/sw89vd
 
Znak

Znak

Hall of Fame
Your palm lays open too early, I used to have this problem too, and from time to time creep into this territory when I'm tight. You need to be on edge longer, as well if you have a healthy shoulder then your racquet drop should be much deeper. I'm guessing it might be due to being too tight and forcing that throwing motion. Or if you're not finding enough time, then you need to get into that trophy phase earlier. Also I would try to hold that tossing arm up a little longer. If you're really struggling with the legs, I wouldn't even consider them until you've figured out the top half of the equation, then once that's nailed work on the legs.

Just my 2 cents!
 
L

LeeD

Bionic Poster
Lower your left elbow, to get a longer swing. Your shoulders seem weak, with no snap nor acceleration. Are you injured?
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Yyc_tennis said:
Hi Guys,

I've been quite frustrated with my serve and tried to change a million things from my stance to my toss to my pre throw position. Nothing seems to work ... I feel like I'm not using my legs properly (knee bend and power to push up) and also struggling with my timing (especially my dominant hand)

I'll let you guys take a look at the video and share your thoughts.

Video Link : https://streamable.com/sw89vd
Click to expand...
What are you frustrated by and what improvement do you want? Also, is this your first or second serve? Every rec serve has inefficiencies of every body/swing component that can be improved. So, it is important to figure out what to prioritize first based on what improvement you want.
 
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P

PKorda

Professional
I agree with the person who mentioned the palm, that's the first thing that stood out to me. Your motion seems unique in that you actually start with your palm down but then it opens up to back fence when you start your swing. The second thing I'd focus on is getting your elbow up and a racket drop that points the racket towards the ground (these two things go together somewhat obviously). The third thing I noticed (and this is last in order of importance for now) is your body weight/momentum isn't moving towards your target.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
As mentioned previously, your right elbow is too high for your trophy phase. Should be in line with your shoulder tilt. Your R elbow is higher than your R shoulder

FedPeteTrophyElbow.png

In addition, your racket head drop is much too shallow. The high elbow is part of the problem. But it appears that your inadequate drop is due, in large part, to inadequate leg drive and a lack of external shoulder rotation. Your racket head does not drop lower than your own head. Compare this to a full drop where the tip reaches the player's waist or butt

fed-serving-tip.bmp

images

​
The knees should start to straighten / extend as the racket starts to drop from the trophy position. By the time that the racket drop is at its lowest point, the legs should already be fully extended. In the images above, you can see that these servers have also started to leave the ground before the upward swing commences.

Your racket head drop never gets any lower than the image below. (Your racket face might also be a bit too open as shown)

maxresdefault.jpg


​
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
^ Agreed. The lack of ISR is due, in large part, because of the insufficient racket drop. You need a lot more ESR (external shoulder rotation) for a decent drop. If you externally rotate the shoulder, on the drop, you will stretch the internal rotators. When you release that stretch, you'll get more ISR later in the upward swing
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
Click to expand...
With respect to this, another important aspect of that part of the motion is the position of the elbow relative to the hand.


OPer (like many many other amateur serves) isn't executing that correctly and it is in part, along with the high elbow at trophy, that causes an extremely shallow drop. Imo it's not necessary to have any serious leg drive to learn to implement a decent drop. For example:


That is a great drill to learn the upper body mechanics correctly and in isolation, so nothing else can screw it up. The part from 20s to 25s is what I'm talking about regarding the drop (and yes, I know it's not "exactly" what happens during a live serve, but that is a progression in developing one). If that's too simple go with a regular half serve drill that utilises some lower body.

 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
What do you mean?
Click to expand...
:confused: I linked a Patrick Mouratoglou video (the first one), timestamped where he talks and demonstrates precisely what I mean. Did you watch it? I'm going to say no.

It's at 16 seconds and he says "the elbow comes in front as the hand goes down" and he shows the correct and incorrect motion. A very similar motion is demonstrated by McCraw in the pronation video at 20s.
 
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P

pencilcheck

Hall of Fame
there are many ways to serve, I only focus on Federer style serve, but other serve also works depends on personal preferences.

i don't really understand the issue, what do you think is the ideal serve? what is it that you tried that you can't do or didn't seem to work??
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Digital Atheist said:
:confused: I linked a Patrick Mouratoglou video (the first one), timestamped where he talks and demonstrates precisely what I mean. Did you watch it? I'm going to say no.

It's at 16 seconds and he says "the elbow comes in front as the hand goes down" and he shows the correct and incorrect motion. A very similar motion is demonstrated by McCraw in the pronation video at 20s.
Click to expand...
A bit of misunderstanding. No worries.
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
Digital Atheist said:
I have, and it was .... well, I'll let the reader decide, but imo Patrick does it right.

Click to expand...
Holy crap, Batman!

That instructor is actually messing up that student's serve.
The elbow being "high" or "low" is supposed to be in relation to the torso and shoulder, and it SHOULD change in actual height off the ground as you serve because your torso and body also moves.

It should be more or less perpendicular (or 90 degrees) to the torso. NOT parallel to the ground.
 
Znak

Znak

Hall of Fame
onehandbh said:
Holy crap, Batman!

That instructor is actually messing up that student's serve.
The elbow being "high" or "low" is supposed to be in relation to the torso and shoulder, and it SHOULD change in actual height off the ground as you serve because your torso and body also moves.

It should be more or less perpendicular (or 90 degrees) to the torso. NOT parallel to the ground.
Click to expand...

Yeah that actually looked painful to watch. A nice injury coming in soon.
 
Hit 'em clean

Hit 'em clean

Semi-Pro
Your toss needs to be more to your left and fwd out into the court toward the box you're hitting into. Because your toss comes back to you (to your right) you end up leaning over to your right just to hit the ball. If you were trying to hit a kick serve your current toss might be effective... but even then you would still want to land in the court in the direction you are hitting. You want a toss that will prompt you going up and out into the court. You should be landing a foot or two inside the court and more towards the center line. You are losing a ton of energy and pace by falling to your right. Lean into the shot. Your right foot should be landing fwd and pointed towards the service box... instead you end up almost landing further behind the base line than when you started.

You need to focus on this first and primarily and that will most likely fix a lot of the issues you are having. Fix your toss and where you land... ironically the toss that you caught... that was the one you should be hitting... only put it more fwd in the court. The toss you are hitting is wrong. You want to feel like you're going to high five the ball with the racquet.

Here's a good link for fixing your toss


Look at this video to understand and see where your toss should be and how your arm should extend to the ball at contact

 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Probably past the “too many chefs” point but I’ll add this as it is a reason for the inadequate racquet drop. You are rotating your shoulders during the racquet drop which is putting East-West forces in the racquet when you want it to be dropping from North to South. Your upper body should not be changing its orientation to the net (rotating) until you throw your hand toward your target. Rotating into your serve only slows the speed of the ball. It kills power, not adds to it. It, prematurely rotating, affects your ability to jump which helps externally rotate the shoulder into the racquet drop position.
 
Znak

Znak

Hall of Fame
A good side view of talking points above

www.instagram.com

Jonathan Stokke on Instagram: "Pronation ✅ The pronation of the forearm is critical to achieving maximum power and spin on the serve. ❌ Avoid the “waiter’s tray” or “pizza position” even though these techniques can help you find the court quicker.

5,694 likes, 57 comments - stokketennis on October 18, 2022: "Pronation ✅ The pronation of the forearm is critical to achieving maximum power and spin on the serve. ❌ Avoid the “waite...".
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
A bit of misunderstanding. No worries.
Click to expand...
Well, it was merely an extension (or at least an important part) of what you were showing. There is another serve thread on here with a big athletic guy having this exact problem (his motion looked good with this exception and his racquet drop was poor). I will try and find it and post in that thread with images.
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
onehandbh said:
Holy crap, Batman!

That instructor is actually messing up that student's serve.
The elbow being "high" or "low" is supposed to be in relation to the torso and shoulder, and it SHOULD change in actual height off the ground as you serve because your torso and body also moves.

It should be more or less perpendicular (or 90 degrees) to the torso. NOT parallel to the ground.
Click to expand...
Yes, I actually thought his elbow position wasn't terrible at all and felt like the correction might cause injury down the track. Maybe it was slightly low but still within the 10° below the shoulder/shoulder line that Brian Gordon says is acceptable (biomechanically it is ok to be slightly lower than the shoulder plane line, and that is better than being too high according to him).
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@onehandbh
Digital Atheist said:
Yes, I actually thought his elbow position wasn't terrible at all and felt like the correction might cause injury down the track. Maybe it was slightly low but still within the 10° below the shoulder/shoulder line that Brian Gordon says is acceptable (biomechanically it is ok to be slightly lower than the shoulder plane line, and that is better than being too high according to him).
Click to expand...
I had not heard that from Brian Gordon. Any links on that? I assume that BG was referring to the elbow position during the trophy phase. To my eye, the student (post #16) has an elbow position that is closer to 20° below the shoulder tilt line. I don't see a lesser 10° deviation until the server has dropped the racket head behind him (behind his head / neck). It's not until he is well into his drop that the elbow is directly in line with the shoulders. I would definitely be tempted to correct the low elbow position for that student. Note that student who exhibit a low elbow position will often vary that position. While they may be 10° to 20° on some serves, they may be closer to 45° on other serves. I've seen this quite often.
vector-angle-2080-degrees-geometry-600w-299218907.jpg
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
SystemicAnomaly said:
...................
fed-serving-tip.bmp

images
..........

maxresdefault.jpg


​
Click to expand...

The two pro servers show Thoracic Extension.

The demo shows little.

I am not viewing videos so I don't know about the OP.

I have posted about Thoracic Extension and described that bending the Thoracic back makes it easier to do additional external shoulder rotation. What I said has not been disputed as far as I recall.

What do you think about Thoracic Extension and its effect on Maximum External Rotation MER?

Warning- Thoracic Extension may be stressful for some bscks.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Chas Tennis said:
The two pro servers show Thoracic Extension.

The demo shows little.

I am not viewing videos so I don't know about the OP.

I have posted about Thoracic Extension and described that bending the Thoracic back makes it easier to do additional external shoulder rotation. What I said has not been disputed as far as I recall.

What do you think about Thoracic Extension and its effect on Maximum External Rotation MER?

Warning- Thoracic Extension may be stressful for some bscks.
Click to expand...
The OP appears to utilize a very mild thoracic extension (arching of the back). He could probably benefit from a bit more arch to assist in achieving an improved ESR / racket drop. Driving the chest upward, in addition to driving (extending) the legs, would help with this. But I would caution the OP about going for too much arching of the mid back (and upper back). Too much thoracic extension could put too stress on the lower & mid back.
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
Any tips to fix high elbow at trophy position other than just trying to lower it consciously until it automatically becomes lower, hopefully? Would exaggerating the opposite help?
 
C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
SystemicAnomaly said:
The OP appears to utilize a very mild thoracic extension (arching of the back). He could probably benefit from a bit more arch to assist in achieving an improved ESR / racket drop. Driving the chest upward would help with this. But I would caution the OP about going for too much arching of the mid back (and upper back). Too much thoracic extension could put too stress on the lower & mid back.
Click to expand...
When the legs drive upward the inertia of the upper body tilted back can cause it to bend the back with more Thoracic Extension. That shortens the distance from the lat's origins on the back to its insertion on the upper arm. This helps get more ESR. In addition, when the back re-straightens with Thoracic Flexion it causes forces for ISR. I wish there were a publication on this back bending motion and its biomechanical function, maybe for baseball pitching?
 
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SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
@Znak @Happi
onehandbh said:
Holy crap, Batman!

That instructor is actually messing up that student's serve.
The elbow being "high" or "low" is supposed to be in relation to the torso and shoulder, and it SHOULD change in actual height off the ground as you serve because your torso and body also moves.

It should be more or less perpendicular (or 90 degrees) to the torso. NOT parallel to the ground.
Click to expand...
Nah, I don't think so. He does over-correct at first -- elbow a bit too high. However, for the last 1/3 of the video, the student gets the elbow to a suitable position.
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Curious said:
Any tips to fix high elbow at trophy position other than just trying to lower it consciously until it automatically becomes lower, hopefully? Would exaggerating the opposite help?
Click to expand...
Half serve drill. Try starting your serve from the half serve or "salute" position for a while -- perhaps for a few weeks or more, if needed. Make sure that the elbow is in the proper position at the start of this motion. Also make certain that the elbow does not rise during the toss. Elbow should not rise until the racket drop -- but it still does not rise above the shoulder (tilt) line. (The shoulders will level off during the drop so the elbow moves with that action).

After you've made the proper elbow position a habit with the half serve, try a fuller, but abbreviated motion. Keep it simple. Pull the elbow back (elbow the enemy) into position with the elbow bent at 90 degrees. Move thru the salute, trophy and drop (primarily) with ESR.
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
SystemicAnomaly said:
I had not heard that from Brian Gordon. Any links on that? I assume that BG was referring to the elbow position during the trophy phase. To my eye, the student (post #16) has an elbow position that is closer to 20° below the shoulder tilt line.
Click to expand...
It's on tennisplayer.net so behind a pay wall. It is the same video where he discusses the "hesitation" or slight trophy pause as his preferred teaching method to coordinate the leg drive with the racquet drop (he also says that as a strong player progresses they will often go from the pause and develop a fluid continuous motion while keeping the correct timing).

You might be correct about the 20°, no arguments there and I didn't do any frame advancing , but to my eye it looked like the correction was far too high and worse than the original serve.

And guess what, my memory failed me and your number is the right one! I know that's not what you meant when you said 20, but Brian actually says, and I quote "the elbow is essentially in line with the two shoulders, although it can be up to 20° below. Any further than 20° causes a serious problem.....".
 
SystemicAnomaly

SystemicAnomaly

Bionic Poster
Digital Atheist said:
It's on tennisplayer.net so behind a pay wall. It is the same video where he discusses the "hesitation" or slight trophy pause as his preferred teaching method to coordinate the leg drive with the racquet drop (he also says that as a strong player progresses they will often go from the pause and develop a fluid continuous motion while keeping the correct timing).

You might be correct about the 20°, no arguments there and I didn't do any frame advancing , but to my eye it looked like the correction was far too high and worse than the original serve.

And guess what, my memory failed me and your number is the right one! I know that's not what you meant when you said 20, but Brian actually says, and I quote "the elbow is essentially in line with the two shoulders, although it can be up to 20° below. Any further than 20° causes a serious problem.....".
Click to expand...
I'd still be concerned about a 20° deviation. Kind of marginal. And, with a number of players I've seen, 20° is their better serves with 30° to 60° deviation as they fatigue or as they try different serves.

About half way thru the video, the elbow was a bit high but then it eventually settled do a proper level for the last third of the video.
 
Y

Yyc_tennis

New User
Hey Guys, I appreciate the comments that each one of you posted. It is very helpful.
Okay ... so I tried to work on the most crucial things today .. I know I can't fix everything in one day but here's a snapshot of some things I just worked on today (I know my hand if not as straight as I want it to be and my leg drive is weak.. that I really need to figure it out)

Video link from today (Oct 19th) :
streamable.com

Watch g1k3yx | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.
streamable.com
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
SystemicAnomaly said:
I'd still be concerned about a 20° deviation. Kind of marginal. And, with a number of players I've seen, 20° is their better serves with 30° to 60° deviation as they fatigue or as they try different serves.

About half way thru the video, the elbow was a bit high but then it eventually settled do a proper level for the last third of the video.
Click to expand...
Please check your PMs ;)
 
ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Yyc_tennis said:
Hey Guys, I appreciate the comments that each one of you posted. It is very helpful.
Okay ... so I tried to work on the most crucial things today .. I know I can't fix everything in one day but here's a snapshot of some things I just worked on today (I know my hand if not as straight as I want it to be and my leg drive is weak.. that I really need to figure it out)

Video link from today (Oct 19th) :
streamable.com

Watch g1k3yx | Streamable

Watch this video on Streamable.
streamable.com
Click to expand...
In the pic below you are completely facing the net with the racquet still heading to contact. How did you do it, by starting to turn toward the net by turning your feet before you pushed off the ground. Everything else, hips, torso shoulders went with it. Instead of this creating power, it kills it. When you rotate the hitting shoulder forward before the racquet is in a position to go along with it (at the drop finish) it actually puts forces on it in the opposite direction from where you are hitting to.
Let the upward part of the swing rotate you as is necessary.

https://imgur.com/a/pPtt2j2
 
Curious

Curious

G.O.A.T.
ballmachineguy said:
In the pic below you are completely facing the net with the racquet still heading to contact. How did you do it, by starting to turn toward the net by turning your feet before you pushed off the ground. Everything else, hips, torso shoulders went with it. Instead of this creating power, it kills it. When you rotate the hitting shoulder forward before the racquet is in a position to go along with it (at the drop finish) it actually puts forces on it in the opposite direction from where you are hitting to.
Let the upward part of the swing rotate you as is necessary.

https://imgur.com/a/pPtt2j2
Click to expand...
Djokovic in the similar position in terms of racket and ball.
His shoulders face the net but with a huge cartwheeling action his right shoulder is still much higher that the left shoulder.

https://imgur.com/a/NrjxKoq
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
SystemicAnomaly said:
@onehandbh

I had not heard that from Brian Gordon. Any links on that? I assume that BG was referring to the elbow position during the trophy phase. To my eye, the student (post #16) has an elbow position that is closer to 20° below the shoulder tilt line. I don't see a lesser 10° deviation until the server has dropped the racket head behind him (behind his head / neck). It's not until he is well into his drop that the elbow is directly in line with the shoulders. I would definitely be tempted to correct the low elbow position for that student. Note that student who exhibit a low elbow position will often vary that position. While they may be 10° to 20° on some serves, they may be closer to 45° on other serves. I've seen this quite often.
vector-angle-2080-degrees-geometry-600w-299218907.jpg
Click to expand...

I think I learned this from a baseball coach.

Something to use as a guideline. Not an absolute.

The serve is not totally identical to a ball throw but share some biomechanical features.

You also want your forearm roughly 90 degrees to your upper arm before the racquet drop phase starts. Djokovic's forearm used to have too big of an angle but he corrected it and his serve also improved.

I used see some tennis coaches use the "back scratch" position to teach the serve. Then sometimes leads to the student using arm extension as the primary source of power instead of ISR. It also can make the forearm/upper arm angle too small, making it less natural to use ISR and they whole kinetic chain.

IMO, it is better to start at the trophy position if you are going to use an abbreviated motion as a learning tool.
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
Curious said:
Rec players only use vertical axis for rotation. Pros have terrific shoulder over shoulder rotation.
Click to expand...
That's not always true, but I take your point.

Imo the biggest difference between the two isn't that he turned his feet toward the net before pushing off (although maybe OP does do this a little bit, unlike Serena and Roddick below), but more the way he uses the off hand (or rather lack of use) to slow the body rotation down and accelerate the arm through contact. This is one instance where I agree with Ryan from 2 minute tennis; he encourages the player to keep the off hand tucked well into the chest until way past contact. If you were to take the OPers right arm and put it in a position like Djokovic, his right shoulder would drop slightly and move forward, which would place him in a more side on position.

Interestingly, here is Roddick. I certainly can't read the front of his t shirt (but I have bad eyes).

AL9nZEU7I8MT-VI1mnUSVPPk9nUb581v3svCEhky67YvOVXZXcwrWxSR4vJwTMJwwGwjfSB36rx4L-TcMs4iomnc5SDXi_O59ZBteeVhC0OUvo3d-bTENNGPaR-2BdFnngLf3wj5eKt8f-L1YXq7yoVHNo6s=w375-h453-no


I agree that WTA servers (in general) use body rotation much more to assist with power generation than most ATP servers.

AL9nZEW_TgXPfhvO0iqGrnxGyPNGfneTRroEB1jMiVGyAWPhBVclZElcuBXo57NyAcKkZQV5QV7CqkLOr85zB90lQXyYHLWSRFsev41XFp1CqgNupoyydqHCWlBSiVuEevvzi_3V4BDiZ6p3McO3VS-MUYIi=w765-h294-no

Serena Williams at contact (and the image before, which is way way before contact) is very front on. My point here is that there is a reasonably efficient way of using body rotation/shoulder turn to generate power, given that other elements are in place, and it's not wrong per se. Obviously this doesn't apply to second serves.

This guy explains the concept quite well imo, since there is often more to it than just opening up too early with players that have good serves.

 
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ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Here’s a pic of the OP and Serena. The pic of Serena is from the video posted by DA. Serena ends up facing the net, but, as you can see from the pic, she has jumped without any rotation thus far. Once in the air, any rotation has to come from where she swings her arm. In this case, a flat bomb of a first serve. So, you can end up facing the net, you just have to go about it the right way.
The pic of the OP is at the exact same moment, max drop, and you can see he has already initiated rotation before max drop. Not good.
As for the video posted, I prefer to not get my tennis advice from a guy that looks like he just inhaled a dozen jelly donuts. Half a dozen, maybe.
https://imgur.com/a/gXpStE1
 
Digital Atheist

Digital Atheist

Hall of Fame
ballmachineguy said:
So, you can end up facing the net, you just have to go about it the right way.
Click to expand...
That was part of my point, which I thought I made clear.

Anyway, I never said OP didn't over rotate or rotate early, since it is relatively obvious that he does, and that was implied when I suggested the altering of his tossing arm position would assist with his current alignment. That part I might not have been clear on but it is implied. I also linked a video from Mouratoglou about the correct way to swing the arm, and hand position relative to the elbow, which OP gets drastically wrong and is also what I think needs addressed.


Just swinging harder or faster with the arm wont fix his current swing, which is also why I suggested working on the correct arm action.

However, I'm not sure what insulting the creator of that video achieves. I do wonder how belly size correlates to tennis knowledge and the ability to instruct. I'd like someone to join those dots if they can, preferably with a trail of donuts (double cream and no jelly, thanks).

<possible incitement text removed to preserve the civility of the discussion>. I mentioned the Don, which was a mistake, sorry!
 
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ballmachineguy

ballmachineguy

Hall of Fame
Digital Atheist said:
That was part of my point, which I thought I made clear.

Anyway, I never said OP didn't over rotate or rotate early, since it is relatively obvious that he does, and that was implied when I suggested the altering of his tossing arm position would assist with his current alignment. That part I might not have been clear on but it is implied. I also linked a video from Mouratoglou about the correct way to swing the arm, and hand position relative to the elbow, which OP gets drastically wrong and is also what I think needs addressed.


Just swinging harder or faster with the arm wont fix his current swing, which is also why I suggested working on the correct arm action.

However, I'm not sure what insulting the creator of that video achieves. I do wonder how belly size correlates to tennis knowledge and the ability to instruct. I'd like someone to join those dots if they can, preferably with a trail of donuts (double cream and no jelly, thanks).

<possible incitement text removed to preserve the civility of the discussion>. I mentioned the Don, which was a mistake, sorry!
Click to expand...
It probably had something to do with the fact that I didn’t agree with your post.
You put yourself on the internet (donut guy), you open yourself up for criticism.
 
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C

Chas Tennis

G.O.A.T.
Curious said:
Click to expand...



The recipe includes Throracic Extension & Thoracic Flexion. You can do frame-by-frame analysis by using the instructions I've posted many times for serve analyses. Beef stew has a recipe of necessary ingredients and so does the tennis serve. Leave one thing out.....?

The recipe also includes the ball trajectory, hand path, racket head path and its orientations. (forget 'on edge') A single camera view always short changes one component of the 3D serve components of motion. In this case, we don't see how far the hand is away from the camera as well as we see how high the hand is and where across the frame it is located. We can't afford or know how to operate 3D motion capture systems ($300K), made up of multi-cameras. So we have to compromise and use more than one camera or keep in mind that a video from one camera is limited. This camera view shows us some things because at impact the camera is looking parallel to the path of the racket hand which does not seem to move very much.
6E7FE645E567434F9E29811E54D3E639.jpg


Kinovea also allows servers to be placed over other servers in one video so that the differences become more obvious.
 
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