Curious
G.O.A.T.
My torso leans back after the swing. Is it fair to say that Stan doesn’t really transfer weight with his torso here especially on the first and the last shots?
What a pain! One handed backhand
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
Dragy
Legend
On first shot he lifts much more than drives, I suppose. Second shot he clearly moves through, lateral because it’s wide ball, but it’s exactly proper.
Last one, he’s again caught backpedaling a bit, but still loads over the front foot and pushes.
What you (and I’m guilty every now and then) seem to be doing, is setting up for classic closed stance drive, but stop yourself way before impact, and mostly swing your arm with upright torso. You get some uncoiling of course into that swing, but there’s just better way to align that uncoil and transfer the power into RHS. Weight transfer isn’t an ultimate and only correct way, but it’s very good to feel the difference and then fine tune it all. So hitting against BM, try to have a bit of “walk-through” stroke finish, changing nothing else. See how you like it.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I really need to get rid of that torso lean back through the swing.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
There really is no hope.
optic yellow
Legend
put this **** in your sig imo
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Yeah you said it better than I did, but he knows:
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Put the front foot down right before max take back and all of your ills will be cured.
How about trying the cable machine at the gym in a backhand fashion without your front foot down, how would you pull? Try and throw a frisbee, arm going forward before your front foot comes down, that won’t work, either, just like your backhand.
EDIT: Since no one but Shroud seems to care, I’ll expand upon what’s above. When you start the racquet from the take back position without the front foot on the ground, you recruit muscles that have no business working at that time. Those muscles are trying to correct mistakes that are made by not pulling from a stretched position. If you think getting the foot down during the drop is “close enough” you’d be wrong. Horses have left the barn. Has to be before drop starts. It would be like starting to throw a ball without your front foot on the ground. Nothing to pull towards. It is what makes the still photos of your backhand look so weird. Don’t fix the lean back look by trying not to lean back. Fix what forces you to lean back. You stiffen up to make up for the mistake at the start.
This is such a huge flaw and one that needs to be fixed. It is the one thing that you do that makes me say your ohbh journey is a hopeless one. I remember calling the “time of death” of your groundies over two years ago. I wasn’t wrong.
I learned a long time ago that, when trying to figure out sports technique on my own, if I couldn’t get any results after the old college try, something significant fundamentally was still off. Time for you to learn that C!
How about trying the cable machine at the gym in a backhand fashion without your front foot down, how would you pull? Try and throw a frisbee, arm going forward before your front foot comes down, that won’t work, either, just like your backhand.
EDIT: Since no one but Shroud seems to care, I’ll expand upon what’s above. When you start the racquet from the take back position without the front foot on the ground, you recruit muscles that have no business working at that time. Those muscles are trying to correct mistakes that are made by not pulling from a stretched position. If you think getting the foot down during the drop is “close enough” you’d be wrong. Horses have left the barn. Has to be before drop starts. It would be like starting to throw a ball without your front foot on the ground. Nothing to pull towards. It is what makes the still photos of your backhand look so weird. Don’t fix the lean back look by trying not to lean back. Fix what forces you to lean back. You stiffen up to make up for the mistake at the start.
This is such a huge flaw and one that needs to be fixed. It is the one thing that you do that makes me say your ohbh journey is a hopeless one. I remember calling the “time of death” of your groundies over two years ago. I wasn’t wrong.
I learned a long time ago that, when trying to figure out sports technique on my own, if I couldn’t get any results after the old college try, something significant fundamentally was still off. Time for you to learn that C!
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Curious
G.O.A.T.
Have tried many times. Some sort of timing issue imo.
We don’t live in an ideal world. My backhand doesn’t have to be flawless to be effective. Why is it crucial problem? Because of reduced power? Because it doesn’t look like what Wawrinka does? He makes it sound like it’s such a fundamental issue that if you don’t have it you can’t hit the ball over the net, which is clearly not the case. I can still generate quite a bit of power(definitely enough). Again I wish I could do it but I don’t believe that without that it’s impossible to have an effective backhand at rec level.
Dragy
Legend
Yeah you can hit without planting your front foot at all, like these Fed returns: plant the left foot and swing your right leg during the stroke and land on it. But basic way - closed/neutral stance, plant foot, swing - is just more efficient. If you don't want to produce good power, go with conti grip arm-focused precise shot. If you want power and spin, start with basic most reliable power source and technique/sequence.
It just sounds you deny it because it's him and how he says it, rather than you really object to the idea.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
No, I don’t deny it and I believe it’s the right way but I simply can’t do it. Have tried so many times. But again I don’t think it’s impossible to have an effective one hander despite that. So I accept it and keep working on improving my bh without it.
Because you do not have proper balance and platform to perform the swing hence you have little control.
Dragy
Legend
It’s a bit like mistimed jump on serve. Like you see that guy having jump and hitting on descend. And he says he absolutely cannot change it.
So if you want best for him, you make him serve with no jump until he starts to clear the ground just naturally, passively.
Same here. If you believe it’s important, take your timing out of equation. Plant it well in advance, while still pulling arms back and up. As a side bonus, you will 100% know when you were late in prep, because you couldn’t plant it in advance. So you’ll be able to hasten your prep sequence.
But well, just sharing thoughts. It’s your decision for sure.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Yes, good analogy.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Sure, I knew that , too. What I was thinking of doing is that I should try to at least make my mistimed forward step smaller to minimise the balance problem.
ratherlosethanpush
Rookie
Think of it as a sequencing issue, if we corrupt the kinetic chain we rob ourselves of power, accuracy and consistency.
Can we play tennis yes, can we play our best tennis no.
I like Homer Kelly's idea of zones (an engineer who wrote a golf book)
Zone 1 is body control which is pivot, effective use here allows what needs to be recruited to be recruited at the correct time.
If this is fundamentally unsound it comprises what is to come. That's why it's important.
The other 2 zones are basically power and control. They need a sound base to shine.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Agree. As stated above I’m not going to give up on one hander because of that flaw.
Curious. It’s your thread and everyone has a right to experiment and try new things everyday.
However what is the point of showing Wawrinka or other pro videos when then you turn around and say you can’t do even fundamental things they are doing due to physical issues?
If you have physical issues then watch some senior rec adults tournaments ( not even senior pros who are still good) and copy some of those older rec players who have the same physical shortcomings as you do.
However what is the point of showing Wawrinka or other pro videos when then you turn around and say you can’t do even fundamental things they are doing due to physical issues?
If you have physical issues then watch some senior rec adults tournaments ( not even senior pros who are still good) and copy some of those older rec players who have the same physical shortcomings as you do.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
This particular issue is more of a bad habit, ingrained wrong muscle memory than some physical shortcoming imo.
Then why say you just can’t do it as you did earlier in this thread? That makes no sense. Why not break it down to smaller steps and put the work in?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Try starting your forehand swing without your right foot on the ground. Same thing.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
thanks for spelling it out. I checked my self before I wreck myself and I DO step forward with the takeback so I think I certainly have the foot on the ground. Years of frisbee every day ingrained that. But poor curious probably threw the boomerang.
IMHO he could fix this by doing self feeds and letting the ball bounce a bit in front of the ideal contact so he HAS to take a step. Also the self feed kind of slows down the take back. He could teach himself the timing pretty quickly. Though not sure he even tries stuff we mention sometimes.
Easy to rewrite. Repetition.
1000 Shadow swings -> 1000 hand fed shots -> go to the ball machine and focus on the front foot, forget everything else, the quality of shot does not matter. If you do not do the proper sequence don't hit. Try to find the "rythm".
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
I’ve actually seen video of him self-feeding and doing it correctly. I don't know about you, but I know he won’t do what I suggest, because it is me. If I were a really mean person, I would tell him to not jump off of a bridge.thanks for spelling it out. I checked my self before I wreck myself and I DO step forward with the takeback so I think I certainly have the foot on the ground. Years of frisbee every day ingrained that. But poor curious probably threw the boomerang.
IMHO he could fix this by doing self feeds and letting the ball bounce a bit in front of the ideal contact so he HAS to take a step. Also the self feed kind of slows down the take back. He could teach himself the timing pretty quickly. Though not sure he even tries stuff we mention sometimes.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Some people are just like that sadly. Horse to water man, but one day he will start a whole thread on the front foot and the bh....
..and claim that he finally discovered the secret - lol
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Believe me, I’m constantly trying.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Easier said than done. Already done 1000 shadow swings, 1000 hand fed shots with no problem. The next with a live incoming ball and the problem is there again!!
optic yellow
Legend
because you start worrying about the outcome again rather than focusing on the one thing to focus on
Curious
G.O.A.T.
No, the outcome here is to drop the racket after stepping forward.
your racket drop issue is due to you being unable to correctly use your off-hand (left) to guide the racket into the proper position.
maybe instead of thinking about *how* the racket travels to the fully loaded (dropped) position focus instead on using the left hand to 'place' the racket into the completed, dropped position. don't worry about how it gets there, just keep the picture of the correct loaded racket goal in mind and use the off hand to put the racket there. if that makes sense..
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Well, yes, those two are the only major technical issues on my bh: releasing the left hand too early and dropping the racket while stepping forward.
Here’s the weirdest thing, I cannot drop the racket and step forward at the same time on my shadow swings even when I try to do it. In other words I can’t copy my own bad form while hitting a ball on my shadow swings. Can you believe it?
zill
Legend
You will as well within 5 years. 2 if fortunate.
yes, CURIOUSLY, i can believe that!
i have your solution: hit all your backhands open stance, you can still smoke the ball that way.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Who is this guy? Front foot down before take back complete and off hand with throat until racquet gets to slot.
What are the drills or steps you are taking to correct? Maybe some here can help if you post those videos.
If training is not the issue, it has to be physical which is why you can hit it one or two shots correctly but your body cannot do it consistently.
If so, might be better to consider other alternative approaches. There are a lot of excellent rec players who don’t hit like Wawrinka.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
Not sure if the above is much of a correction. How about some medicine ball drills where you almost touch the back knee to the ground? Or drills in general where you are exaggerating that back leg going down to force the front leg plant as well?
I am still thinking it is something physical. You seem very gingerly placing that foot down.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
I guess I wouldn’t be able to do it on shadow swings if it was something physical. I believe it’s a timing issue.
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Yes. You treat it like a dance step. All of the right side moves forward together - arm and foot.
I imagine you don’t play drums?
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Anyone can do it once or twice even if you have physical issues. Body might be betraying you when you try to do it consistently.
Let’s assume it is not physical. Even then the video you posted above shows no correction drills and your core balance seems very weak. Pausing in slow motion twice at the start and then immediately focusing on full throated swings is not going to change anything.
If you really want to change invest time in medicine ball drills that will get your balance and core strength up and then slowly move to exaggerated correction drills. The focus should be on knee drop and core balance than swinging your racquet.
Curious
G.O.A.T.
By physical issues do you mean weakness, lack of flexibility etc? Then I obviously have them but don’t you think this particular issue of swinging down while also stepping forward is purely a timing problem?
yup, i knew that was the fix. lol
optic yellow
Legend
Why does the stance change fix him?
ballmachineguy
Hall of Fame
Curious will say because he could see the ball, but it is probably because the right foot isn’t the last step and you are in such a compromised position (open stance) that you have to do the rest correctly.
There is a core balance required that is missing. People focusing on you getting it correct one out of ten times are missing why you are not more consistently able to do it.
When I see high level swings what stands out are balance and weight transfer. Both come from core strength though other elements are what most focus on.
