How well would a prime steffi graf do in today's game?

halalula1234 · Jan 23, 2009

How well would a good prime steffi graf do in today's power basher game? I think she would do pretty well but not as well as she would cus in the 1999 she didnt have much trouble beating modern day players but also now 2009 tennis is a lot different again.

So how well do u think steffi would do? she moves well and has great strokes and possibly the best forehand. Oh and like the replies mention she has a great variety to her game as well as a good versatile and effective slice backhand as well as a less used top spin.

LeeD · Jan 23, 2009

Of course, we'll never know.
Her forehand and serve was good enough for top level nowadaze. Her slice would drive most of the new girls nuts, but she also had one of the best topspin backhands of any of the girls of her time, but it wasn't tournament proven.
Her speed was right there, her volleys for sure. And she was/is tall enough.
Possibly all those high bouncers would bore her to death, or cause a lapse in concentration.
So motivated, who knows?

CEvertFan · Jan 23, 2009

I think she would be #1 if this was her prime, just like she originally was during her actual prime. Her forehand, footspeed and slice backhand would still be things to fear. She was far more consistent (didn't make as many errors) than any of the current women and she was very mentally tough besides, which is something else the current women lack.

boredone3456 · Jan 23, 2009

CEvertFan said:
I think she would be #1 if this was her prime, just like she originally was during her actual prime. Her forehand, footspeed and slice backhand would still be things to fear. She was far more consistent (didn't make as many errors) than any of the current women and she was very mentally tough besides, which is something else the current women lack.

Perfectly said, the only players on the current tour who I think could give prime Steffi a tough time would be the Williams sisters playing at their respective bests, and Henin, if she were still around, would have been a player to give Graf a fight also. Graf had an amazing all around game and a solid ability to use every kind of shot, which most of the current field lack. That alone would drive her to the top. On clay, Henin would challenge her I think, and on hard and grass, the Williams could give her some trouble playing at their best....other than that...I think Prime Steffi would dominate the majority of the current field.

crabgrass · Jan 23, 2009

graf's my pick as the greatest womens player of alltime and nobody has come along in the last decade to change my opinion on this.
She was as good an athlete as you'll find, possesed the greatest forehand the sport has seen, was incredibly consistent and mentally tough.
the only negative is she always seemed to be battling injuries...at least in the latter part of her career.

mental midget · Jan 23, 2009

crabgrass said:
graf's my pick as the greatest womens player of alltime and nobody has come along in the last decade to change my opinion on this.
She was as good an athlete as you'll find, possesed the greatest forehand the sport has seen, was incredibly consistent and mentally tough.
the only negative is she always seemed to be battling injuries...at least in the latter part of her career.

what he said. she was a rare athletic talent, whatever people are doing now, she'd do it at least that well, almost certainly better.

matchmaker · Jan 23, 2009

Graf would be number one, I don't have the slightest doubt about that. She was far more consistent than any of the current crop. Her FH is still unmatched and her BH, although she did nothing else but slice it, would be a very effective stroke and drive opponents nuts. Not to forget she had a very decent service too and an excellent footwork.

380pistol · Jan 23, 2009

halalula1234 said:
How well would a good prime steffi graf do in today's power basher game? I think she would do pretty well but not as well as she would cus in the 1999 she didnt have much trouble beating modern day players but also now 2009 tennis is a lot different again.

So how well do u think steffi would do? she moves well and has great strokes and possibly the best forehand. Oh and like the replies mention she has a great variety to her game as well as a good versatile and effective slice backhand as well as a less used top spin.

In her prime in this era, Steffi would be going to work on these broads. The only one I can see even hanging with her is Serena, and she's out of shape and preoccupied half the time.

Sharapova - She's a terrible athlete, Graf would expose that

Jankovic - Please??? The over/unger is 55..... how many minutes will it take Graf to beat her???

Ivanovic - Got to #1 but now can't even get out of the 3rd of a slam???

Henin - Retired but.... can you see Graf getting overpowered by someone who stand 5'6" in heels???

Dementieva - Get a serve and then you'll warrant a response

V. Williams - Grass would be fun between the to, but a problematic 2nd serve and a forehand that breaks down, will allow Graf to take most of their meetings.

Who else??? Graf would would have some field days against the women on tour today.

Warriorroger · Jan 24, 2009

halalula1234 said:
How well would a good prime steffi graf do in today's power basher game? I think she would do pretty well but not as well as she would cus in the 1999 she didnt have much trouble beating modern day players but also now 2009 tennis is a lot different again.

So how well do u think steffi would do? she moves well and has great strokes and possibly the best forehand. Oh and like the replies mention she has a great variety to her game as well as a good versatile and effective slice backhand as well as a less used top spin.

She would do great. I am not saying that because I am such big fan of hers (and Federer), butas a player she was something else. The players who gave her the most trouble in her days were all players who had skills which aren't displayed in today's game.

Great serve and volleyer + lefthanded: Martina Navratilova
Power and those unbelievable angles, never-say-die-attitude + lefthanded: Monica Seles

Lefthanders gave Steffi trouble (see head to head), because of the different angles which made her hit more forehands from the forehand side (deucecourt) and most forehand winners came from the add court. (Check the us open match 98 against Schnyder)
In her own prime she was the one with the most power , the generation which started hunting her couldn't consistently beat her, and when she was the legend of tennis in her final years, the new crop (the ones with the power games + Hingis) could not really overpower her, because of her slice game, mental tenacity and forehand .

So many people, non-fans, regard her backhand as weak, but that shot was so perfected and good and difficult for an all power player to play with.

As other posters said. Serena Williams would be her most difficult opponent, Venus and Steffi would give the most entertaining matches. The rest of the field? Ivanovic and Jankovic would only win if Steffi has an off day, because champions like Graf (Seles, Evert, Navratilova) also knew how to win when their A game wasn't one. When Graf's A game is one, no one today would stand a chance.

Her serve is still better than many players (her hardest was 109 mph, with a racket from the 90s)
Her footwork (no one comes close, Federer maybe), but her drive to win matches and love for playing matches would make her a number one.

Andrea Jaeger said during the 1996 final (Graf - Seles) 1.04
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=79-UZKHHAIM&feature=channel_page
, Seles would much rather play the number 350 in the final (to get the match) and Steffi would rather play someone who is close to her (in rankings) to win the match. That show her passion and competitiveness which is unparalleled.

zagor · Jan 24, 2009

She would dominate IMO.Don't see anyone in her class in 2000+(modern game except the Williams sisters but they have been very inconsistant in the last 5 years and have never maximized their talent and potential outside of a few years and Justine Henin who while probably my favourite WTA player of all-time didn't have mental toughness to match Graf IMO even though she had an amazing game(could have watched that BH all day)and was a very hard worker.

Graf's FH,footwork,athleticism,serve and mental toughness would have been too much for today's WTA IMO.

swedechris · Jan 24, 2009

She would DOMINATE..she was one of a kind .

auzzieizm · Jan 24, 2009

Graf would absolutely be at the top. Even with today's top women's players. They can all hit the ball, but they are not mentally as tough nor do they compete even close to as well as Steffi did. One thing to add to the mix is that Steffi retired on top, but throughout her career she did what she had to do to stay there. If she were competing against today's players she would do what she had to do to win, no question.

obsessedtennisfandisorder · Jan 24, 2009

i can see great matches between serena, justine and probably venus on grass
the rest of the tour are toast, especially on grass(seles would be the same).

To be honest I think serena would get the better of her and maybe henin too.

But the following are toast because:

Sharapova: the "graham hick" of women's tennis....good at beating up those
who can't match her power, but when faced with the same, movement quickly exposed....ditto Venus outside grass.

jelena/ana/safina whateva...the rest today do not have forehands anywhere
near the class(esp on the run) of steffi's. steffi hounded the women's tour
in the 90's like fed did/does...go to that forehand and your toast.

these days it's like spray em and hope stuff from some women. eg ana yesterday....she comes back in 2nd fades away again...wtf

I love women's tennis when players use talent+skill+commitment+clutch

crissy/navratalova/serena/martina...steffi etc...all class.

http://kr.youtube.com/watch?v=i-dxibhvgk4

CEvertFan · Jan 24, 2009

boredone3456 said:
Perfectly said, the only players on the current tour who I think could give prime Steffi a tough time would be the Williams sisters playing at their respective bests, and Henin, if she were still around, would have been a player to give Graf a fight also. Graf had an amazing all around game and a solid ability to use every kind of shot, which most of the current field lack. That alone would drive her to the top. On clay, Henin would challenge her I think, and on hard and grass, the Williams could give her some trouble playing at their best....other than that...I think Prime Steffi would dominate the majority of the current field.

The problem with your theory is that the Williams sisters haven't been playing at their respective primes for about 5 years now. If Graf was at the absolute peak of her form right now she would wipe the floor with the entire current women's field, including a poor form Venus and Serena. I also don't think Henin would give her as much trouble as you think either because in a battle of wills and mental toughness Graf would always come out on top and Henin would have to play out of her mind in order to be competetive with Graf. About all any of the current women/Henin could try is to attack the backhand and overwhelm it with power like Seles used to do, but that's easier said than done as Seles knows all too well.

I would agree that if Serena and Venus played at their absolute best they would be very tough for Graf to beat but they rarely do play at their best these days so it would be easy pickings for Steffi. Graf would eat up all those UEs and love every minute of it.

boredone3456 · Jan 24, 2009

CEvertFan said:
The problem with your theory is that the Williams sisters haven't been playing at their respective primes for about 5 years now. If Graf was at the absolute peak of her form right now she would wipe the floor with the entire current women's field, including Venus and Serena. I also don't think Henin would give her as much trouble as you think either because in a battle of wills and mental toughness Graf would always come out on top and Henin would have to play out of her mind in order to be competetive with Graf. About all any of the current women/Henin could try is to attack the backhand and overwhelm it with power like Seles used to do, but that's easier said than done as Seles knows all too well.

I meant the Williams of like...2002-2004. I think when you think of what Graf would do now, you'd have to really say when she would come on the tour. If she came on the tour around 2000 or shortly after, she would run into prime Serena and Venus shortly after that and probably have quite a few good battles against the both of them. If she started around 2005 then well her prime competition would be Henin, who I point to because of her never say die attitude and fighting spirit. Yes in terms of Mental toughness Graf had her beat by a mile, but even prime Graf had her days when she went off the mark and of all the players on the tour, I think only Henin and the Williams could possibly take advantage of those situations. I didn't mean that they would be able to consistantly beat Graf, just that they would give her the most trouble of the current crop.

bluetrain4 · Jan 24, 2009

Warriorroger said:
She would do great. I am not saying that because I am such big fan of hers (and Federer), butas a player she was something else. The players who gave her the most trouble in her days were all players who had skills which aren't displayed in today's game.

Great serve and volleyer + lefthanded: Martina Navratilova
Power and those unbelievable angles, never-say-die-attitude + lefthanded: Monica Seles

Lefthanders gave Steffi trouble (see head to head), because of the different angles which made her hit more forehands from the forehand side (deucecourt) and most forehand winners came from the add court. (Check the us open match 98 against Schnyder)
In her own prime she was the one with the most power , the generation which started hunting her couldn't consistently beat her, and when she was the legend of tennis in her final years, the new crop (the ones with the power games + Hingis) could not really overpower her, because of her slice game, mental tenacity and forehand .

So many people, non-fans, regard her backhand as weak, but that shot was so perfected and good and difficult for an all power player to play with.

As other posters said. Serena Williams would be her most difficult opponent, Venus and Steffi would give the most entertaining matches. The rest of the field? Ivanovic and Jankovic would only win if Steffi has an off day, because champions like Graf (Seles, Evert, Navratilova) also knew how to win when their A game wasn't one. When Graf's A game is one, no one today would stand a chance.

Her serve is still better than many players (her hardest was 109 mph, with a racket from the 90s)
Her footwork (no one comes close, Federer maybe), but her drive to win matches and love for playing matches would make her a number one.

Andrea Jaeger said during the 1996 final (Graf - Seles) 1.04
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=79-UZKHHAIM&feature=channel_page
, Seles would much rather play the number 350 in the final (to get the match) and Steffi would rather play someone who is close to her (in rankings) to win the match. That show her passion and competitiveness which is unparalleled.

I'd add that a player like Sanchez-Vicario gave her trouble sometimes, even though the head-to-head was 28-10 in favor of Graf. Coetzer also had a few big wins over Steffi. I don't see anyone on tour being consistent enough, having the heart, and having the footspeed to track down enough balls (and don't forget, ASV had a great net game), to bother Graf in the same way.

grafrules · Jan 24, 2009

Graf would be #1 among the current weak womens field easily. Serena of 2002-2003, Venus of 2000-2001 (on faster surfaces only though), and to a lesser degree Henin of 2003 and 2007 may have been able to challenge her but none of those current players exist in those particular veins right now.

The current Serena out of shape and far past her best would probably not be able to win any slams with someone like Steffi around. Or perhaps Serena winning nothing for long enough would help her get over some of her ego and delusions and she would actually start putting in the work and commitment again needed. Venus could still battle Steffi some at Wimbledon maybe but that is it. Steffi would probably be alot more dominant in the current womens field than she was even in her most dominant periods like 87-89 and 93, 95, 96.

grafrules · Jan 24, 2009

CEvertFan said:
The problem with your theory is that the Williams sisters haven't been playing at their respective primes for about 5 years now. If Graf was at the absolute peak of her form right now she would wipe the floor with the entire current women's field, including a poor form Venus and Serena. I also don't think Henin would give her as much trouble as you think either because in a battle of wills and mental toughness Graf would always come out on top and Henin would have to play out of her mind in order to be competetive with Graf. About all any of the current women/Henin could try is to attack the backhand and overwhelm it with power like Seles used to do, but that's easier said than done as Seles knows all too well.

I would agree that if Serena and Venus played at their absolute best they would be very tough for Graf to beat but they rarely do play at their best these days so it would be easy pickings for Steffi. Graf would eat up all those UEs and love every minute of it.

Very well said.

swedechris · Jan 25, 2009

Looking at this years OZ open i am not impressed by the level of the womens play. To see the depth of the field being so shallow and that Ivanovic and jankovic are out is a testament more to their lack of a true champs qualities to toil and bear down when not playing well than the quality of the opposition.. comeback steffi at Wimby!!!LOL

egn · Jan 25, 2009

Steffi Graff played today one thing happens The Williams get better.

Why do I say this? The Williams only don't care about tennis because they know they are better than the field. They know if they worked really hard to get in shape they would kick the crap out of the rest of the field. Even Justine Henin really never posed a threat to the Williams outside of clay. Serena Williams would actually have a rival and I think Steffi and Serena would dominate tennis for 10 years with each getting 15-18 slams. 2002-2003 was clearly just as indestructible as a prime Graf. I think Graf would have kept Serena motivated to be consistent and live up to her potential.

However if Graf does not keeps Williams motivated I say she wins something ridiculous like 14 slams straight from 2004-2007 due to lack of competence in the field. The only thing that would maybe stop her would be Henin on clay. SO from 2004-2007 she probably would take 14 of the 16 slams and we would have had Graf and Fed owning two circuits at the same time. But people would call Graf phenomenal and still say Fed was beating nobody...(oh snaps I went there.)

=]

goldenyama · Jan 26, 2009

Prime Steffi would be number 1 and a threat do the Grand Slam every year. Henin is gone, the Williams are not committed, and nobody else in the current WTA possesses the talent, court-sense and toughness to stick with Steffi in her prime. The Fraulein Forehand would dominate once again.

Steffi's average scoreline would probably read something like W 6-2 4-1 ret as the flakes that pass for pros on the WTA today retired from the match rather than face her Blitzkreig

goldenyama · Jan 26, 2009

Sorry to jack the thread but another question entirely - how would Steffi do if she came back now!?

Kimiko Date can compete with the young girls after a LONG time away, and she never had half of Steffi's talent or power. Japanese women do age very well (I know coz I live here

:twisted

but I am sure that Steffi keeps in shape, plus she has one of the greatest baseliners of all time as an in-house hitting partner to get back into it...

I am probably dreaming but what do you guys think? Could Steffi teach some of these flakes on the WTA a thing or two still?

egn · Jan 26, 2009

Coming back now at 39 she could probably be top 20 I would say. Not much more though, even the mental wrecks atop the WTA could probably take her down, but I bet she scores wins on most of the top 10.

Warriorroger · Jan 26, 2009

goldenyama said:
Sorry to jack the thread but another question entirely - how would Steffi do if she came back now!?

Kimiko Date can compete with the young girls after a LONG time away, and she never had half of Steffi's talent or power. Japanese women do age very well (I know coz I live here:twisted but I am sure that Steffi keeps in shape, plus she has one of the greatest baseliners of all time as an in-house hitting partner to get back into it...

I am probably dreaming but what do you guys think? Could Steffi teach some of these flakes on the WTA a thing or two still?

Her body won't hold, I am 2 years younger than she is, and the difference with 10 years ago is how the body feels after a match. She played a top 10 player in 2005 and you could tell she was slower and not match tough. If she were to win, she would win on will and the surface would have to be an indoorcourt. But it's not realistic.

grafrules · Jan 26, 2009

egn said:
Steffi Graff played today one thing happens The Williams get better.

Why do I say this? The Williams only don't care about tennis because they know they are better than the field. They know if they worked really hard to get in shape they would kick the crap out of the rest of the field. Even Justine Henin really never posed a threat to the Williams outside of clay. Serena Williams would actually have a rival and I think Steffi and Serena would dominate tennis for 10 years with each getting 15-18 slams. 2002-2003 was clearly just as indestructible as a prime Graf. I think Graf would have kept Serena motivated to be consistent and live up to her potential.

However if Graf does not keeps Williams motivated I say she wins something ridiculous like 14 slams straight from 2004-2007 due to lack of competence in the field. The only thing that would maybe stop her would be Henin on clay. SO from 2004-2007 she probably would take 14 of the 16 slams and we would have had Graf and Fed owning two circuits at the same time. But people would call Graf phenomenal and still say Fed was beating nobody...(oh snaps I went there.)

=]

Actually you raise some interesting ideas there too. If the former happened that would only be great for womens tennis of course.

obanaghan · Jan 26, 2009

I think a prime Graf would be top 5 but remember all the trouble Seles was giving her in 1993 before the stabbing. Steffi's forehand was fearsome but Seles hit that hard a ball of BOTH sides.

When Graf retired in 1999 she was starting to crack against Big Babe Tennis. On paper Graf should have beaten a slower moving player like Davenport but she lost and in straight sets I believe.

We will never know but someone usually comes along who has the answer to the #1s game.

MN did it to CE.
JMc did it to BB.
MS did it to SG.
MH, SW and VW did it to MS.
RN is dong it to RF.

boredone3456 · Jan 26, 2009

obanaghan said:
I think a prime Graf would be top 5 but remember all the trouble Seles was giving her in 1993 before the stabbing. Steffi's forehand was fearsome but Seles hit that hard a ball of BOTH sides.

When Graf retired in 1999 she was starting to crack against Big Babe Tennis. On paper Graf should have beaten a slower moving player like Davenport but she lost and in straight sets I believe.

We will never know but someone usually comes along who has the answer to the #1s game.

MN did it to CE.
JMc did it to BB.
MS did it to SG.
MH, SW and VW did it to MS.
RN is dong it to RF.

It was Seles's fighting spirit, never say die attitude and mental toughness that allowed her to hang with Graf and challenge her in ways no other players really could.

As to your point of Graf cracking Against Big babe Tennis, Graf was 30 years old and had a long career as well as a pretty decent list of injury and previous health issues that had worn her body down. And I dunno if you saw that Wimbledon Final with Davenport but Davenport played what some may consider one of the best matches of her career to beat Steffi. Steffi also had winning records over Venus, Lindsay, Held her own Against Serena, had a winning record against Hingis, Pierce, as well as quite a few others. It was Graf's body if anything that drove her out because mentally she was still just as tough as she always was, as her 99 french win proves. If her body had been healthy Graf could have been Like Martina and remained a force well into her 30's based on her mental toughness alone.

navratilovafan · Jan 26, 2009

obanaghan said:
I think a prime Graf would be top 5 but remember all the trouble Seles was giving her in 1993 before the stabbing. Steffi's forehand was fearsome but Seles hit that hard a ball of BOTH sides.

When Graf retired in 1999 she was starting to crack against Big Babe Tennis. On paper Graf should have beaten a slower moving player like Davenport but she lost and in straight sets I believe.

We will never know but someone usually comes along who has the answer to the #1s game.

MN did it to CE.
JMc did it to BB.
MS did it to SG.
MH, SW and VW did it to MS.
RN is dong it to RF.

-Monica was extremely consistent playing that ferocious power game in the early 90s, hardly making any unforced errors. The current versions of the Williams and other power hitters are not.

-Monica was actually very fit and in shape in the early 90s. The current versions of the Williams and other power hitters are not.

-Monica was extremely mentally tough, even tougher than the Williams sisters and far tougher than any current players outside the Williams sisters.

-Monica actually did have some strategy and point construction to her game in the early 90s.

-Monica dominated the WTA more than she dominated Graf. I am a much bigger Seles fan than a Graf fan but Seles never beat Graf on a faster surface, never beat her easily, and was 2-3 vs Graf even during her dominance. Graf was having more problems with the other top players apart from Monica during this few year time period than any other time from 87-96 which aided Monica's WTA dominance.

Graf in 1999 was not even close to her prime and had lost to players like Ai Sugiyama, Maiu Serena, Sabine Appelmans, Anna Kournikova, Julie Halard, and countless other players she never lost to in her prime. Dont be so naive to think because she had some success that year she was even 60% the level she once was. That would be on par with saying Serena is in her prime now since she can win a slam, or Navratilova was in her prime in 1999 when she won Wimbledon. Even far past her prime and a total shadow of the player she was even in 1996 she was winning about half of her matches with prime Davenport and younger Williams.

Davenport of 1998-2000 was also far superior to any player left today now that Henin is retired, including far past their best William sisters. Davenport of 1998-2000 would probably win 8 out of 12 slams the next 3 years.

Who of the current WTA would crack anyones game. What is there? Williams so far past their best and threats to win still only because of the horrible present WTA field. Wannabees like Jankovic and Ivanovic. Headcases like Dementieva and Safina. Am I missing anyone.

380pistol · Jan 26, 2009

People, we are talking about a prime Steffi Graf!!! Anyway she ends her career against today's field with no more than 10 slams.

She wins 1or 2 her first year. After her second calendar slam, she's arrested on numerous counts of homocide, for the myriad of deaths among players on the WTA.

Graf would go to work on these broads. End of story!!!!!!!!!

egn · Jan 26, 2009

Against the talent of today outside of the williams she would be forced to play one v two as they all played d oubles and she played singles.

grafrules · Jan 27, 2009

Steffi could probably come back on tour now at almost 40 and be in the top 5 if she the time away has cleared away all the injuries she was dealing with in the late 90s for awhile. Maybe even be a paper #1 like Jankovic although she might not win many big titles (but Jelena wins none and is the current paper #1). That is not my Steffi partiality, that is how weak the current womens game is. Watching the Australian Open this year I almost cant bear to watch the womens matches anymore it has gotten so bad, and I am a longtime major fan of the WTA.

CEvertFan · Jan 27, 2009

bluetrain4 said:
I'd add that a player like Sanchez-Vicario gave her trouble sometimes, even though the head-to-head was 28-10 in favor of Graf. Coetzer also had a few big wins over Steffi. I don't see anyone on tour being consistent enough, having the heart, and having the footspeed to track down enough balls (and don't forget, ASV had a great net game), to bother Graf in the same way.

It's actually 28-8 for the Steffi-Arantxa rivalry, not 28-10.

thalivest · Jan 27, 2009

Coetzer had all of her wins except 1 over Steffi in 1997 when Steffi was badly injured and shouldnt have even been playing tennis during that time. Coetzer's success vs Steffi cannot be compared to Sanchez Vicario's although I liked Coetzer and admired her overachieving career.

CEvertFan · Jan 27, 2009

grafrules said:
Steffi could probably come back on tour now at almost 40 and be in the top 5 if she the time away has cleared away all the injuries she was dealing with in the late 90s for awhile. Maybe even be a paper #1 like Jankovic although she might not win many big titles (but Jelena wins none and is the current paper #1). That is not my Steffi partiality, that is how weak the current womens game is. Watching the Australian Open this year I almost cant bear to watch the womens matches anymore it has gotten so bad, and I am a longtime major fan of the WTA.

I don't think Steffi's back would allow her come back. If she was 100% healthy even at the age of 39 (she's only a month older than I am) she could definitely do some damage still against the current sad women's field we see before us.

grafrules · Jan 27, 2009

CEvertFan said:
I don't think Steffi's back would allow her come back. If she was 100% healthy even at the age of 39 (she's only a month older than I am) she could definitely do some damage still against the current sad women's field we see before us.

Yeah I agree, the biggest thing against that possability would be her back condition. Otherwise if her back were somehow fully healed and strong now she could even be a threat now at 39 after so long away with the current slop they refer to as womens tennis these days.

It is kind of funny you mentioned earlier you couldnt see Serena lasting long this tournament with how badly she looks here but with the current womens field you wouldnt be shocked if you were proven wrong anyway. Well as we speak she is now in the quarters despite looking plain awful so far.

CEvertFan · Jan 27, 2009

grafrules said:
Yeah I agree, the biggest thing against that possability would be her back condition. Otherwise if her back were somehow fully healed and strong now she could even be a threat now at 39 after so long away with the current slop they refer to as womens tennis these days.

It is kind of funny you mentioned earlier you couldnt see Serena lasting long this tournament with how badly she looks here but with the current womens field you wouldnt be shocked if you were proven wrong anyway. Well as we speak she is now in the quarters despite looking plain awful so far.

She should have lost against Azarenka but is very lucky to be alive. Look for Dementieva to take her out like she did in the warm up tournament before the AO. I for one don't see Kuznetsova as capable of doing so even as badly as Serena has been playing, because Kutzy has been playing even worse.

And no I wouldn't be shocked if by some miracle Serena won the title because it would be practically handed to her on a silver platter if she did. What would be even sadder is if she didn't win it because out of all the women left she is capable of so much more than they are.

The only, and I mean ONLY, bright spot I saw in the entire women's draw was Dokic and her awesome run to the quarters.

CEvertFan · Jan 27, 2009

obanaghan said:
I think a prime Graf would be top 5 but remember all the trouble Seles was giving her in 1993 before the stabbing. Steffi's forehand was fearsome but Seles hit that hard a ball of BOTH sides.

When Graf retired in 1999 she was starting to crack against Big Babe Tennis. On paper Graf should have beaten a slower moving player like Davenport but she lost and in straight sets I believe.

We will never know but someone usually comes along who has the answer to the #1s game.

MN did it to CE.
JMc did it to BB.
MS did it to SG.
MH, SW and VW did it to MS.
RN is dong it to RF.

Seles and her power and angles gave Steffi trouble but even more than that it was Monica's mental toughness and far greater consistency (as compared to the current women) that allowed her to be a big pain in the butt for Graf for that short while.

rolandg · Jan 27, 2009

She would probably be top 10 if she came back now, at 39. Give her a few drugs, and she'd be number one, no question.

mjwtpro1 · Jan 27, 2009

OK...I know she's a Nun and all but in watching the commentary provided by Andrea Jaeger on that Graf Seles Open Final 96'...she's talking out her A double Q...pretty poor, I completely disagree that Monica would rather play someone ranked 350 :shock:...such garbage....Seles was possibly the BEST competitor ever even during her "stay puffed marshmallow man days"....random and unsubstantiated comment from Andrea...Sorry . Just a thought.

380pistol · Jan 27, 2009

CEvertFan said:
Seles and her power and angles gave Steffi trouble but even more than that it was Monica's mental toughness and far greater consistency (as compared to the current women) that allowed her to be a big pain in the butt for Graf for that short while.

How exactly did Monica bother Steffi???

A) By never leading their H2H at any point in time
B) By trailing their head to head 6-4 at the time of stabbing, with 8 of 10 encounters being when both were ranked in the top 3
C) During Seles' pinnacle 1991-92 (won 6 of 7 slams she played), went 1-3 vs Graf and her only victory was on clay 10-8 in the 3rd.

Thi has always baffled me.

grafrules · Jan 27, 2009

380pistol said:
How exactly did Monica bother Steffi???

A) By never leading their H2H at any point in time
B) By trailing their head to head 6-4 at the time of stabbing, with 8 of 10 encounters being when both were ranked in the top 3
C) During Seles' pinnacle 1991-92 (won 6 of 7 slams she played), went 1-3 vs Graf and her only victory was on clay 10-8 in the 3rd.

Thi has always baffled me.

From spring 1990 to spring of 1993 at the time of the stabbing Seles did go 3-1 vs Graf in slam finals. While I explained in depth many times while the myth of Seles completely dominating Graf herself is not entirely accurate, it would also be inaccurate to say she did not greatly bother her or cut directly into her success.

380pistol · Jan 28, 2009

grafrules said:
From spring 1990 to spring of 1993 at the time of the stabbing Seles did go 3-1 vs Graf in slam finals. While I explained in depth many times while the myth of Seles completely dominating Graf herself is not entirely accurate, it would also be inaccurate to say she did not greatly bother her or cut directly into her success.

Throwout 1990 cuz while Graf was losing to Seles, she was also losing to Garrison and Sabatinit, players Graf owned to the point she was renting them out!!! So unless you're equating Seles with Garrison/Sabatini, we'll start at 1991.

Also many talk about Seles post stabbing... fair enough. Yet I don't here anyone taling about Rubella (German measles), Graf facing jailtime, back, ankle and other problems which Monica befited from in the early 90's.

You can say Seles did bother Graf, but the way it's spoken on you'd Monica would have done better than 1-3 at her pinaacle, when Graf was not even Graf.

rolandg · Jan 28, 2009

380pistol said:
Throwout 1990 cuz while Graf was losing to Seles, she was also losing to Garrison and Sabatinit, players Graf owned to the point she was renting them out!!! So unless you're equating Seles with Garrison/Sabatini, we'll start at 1991.

Also many talk about Seles post stabbing... fair enough. Yet I don't here anyone taling about Rubella (German measles), Graf facing jailtime, back, ankle and other problems which Monica befited from in the early 90's.

You can say Seles did bother Graf, but the way it's spoken on you'd Monica would have done better than 1-3 at her pinaacle, when Graf was not even Graf.

Graf lost more slam finals to Seles than she did anyone else, so if you say Seles didn't bother Graf then you are a bit of a ******. A bit like saying Nadal doesn't bother Fed, or Fed doesn't bother Nadal, or Agassi didn't bother Sampras etc.

It's also the slam/ slam final record. Doesn't matter how many times you beat someone in a tier 1 event. If you can't do it in the slams, it doesn't matter. Bit like Fed/ Murray at the moment.

grafrules · Jan 28, 2009

380pistol said:
Throwout 1990 cuz while Graf was losing to Seles, she was also losing to Garrison and Sabatinit, players Graf owned to the point she was renting them out!!! So unless you're equating Seles with Garrison/Sabatini, we'll start at 1991.

Also many talk about Seles post stabbing... fair enough. Yet I don't here anyone taling about Rubella (German measles), Graf facing jailtime, back, ankle and other problems which Monica befited from in the early 90's.

You can say Seles did bother Graf, but the way it's spoken on you'd Monica would have done better than 1-3 at her pinaacle, when Graf was not even Graf.

Graf in 1990-1991 indeed was in a huge slump and Seles, as well as the rest of the WTA at the time, benefitted from this. However the thing is in 1992 Graf began to return to form and she still played Seles in 3 slam finals and only won 1 of the 3. Seles by 92-early 93 had improved so much by then that even with Graf coming back from her worst ever 1990-1991 form was still having trouble with her.

Sabatini was also playing her best ever tennis in 1990-1992. In 1987-1989 Sabatini was a very hard opponent for Graf, almost always taking her to 3 sets and beating her 3 times in 88-89 when Graf dominated the tour. Those 2 years Graf lost only 5 matches and 3 of the 5 were to Sabatini. Even Navratilova had nowhere near the success vs Graf that Sabatini did in 88-89, yet Navratilova was still ranked #2 ahead of Sabatini during those years. So Sabatini was obviously a tough matchup for Graf, Graf just had such a dominant head to head anyway due to her superiority as a player, so it is no surprise in 1990-1992 when Sabatini was playing her best ever tennis that she would give Graf even more trouble. Of course Graf's slump in 1990-1991 compounded this further I will concede.

The Garrison loss was a 1-time and sort of flukish thing. Plus Zina probably played the match of her life in the semis of Wimbledon that year. Zina was a top 5 player a long time so she wasnt exactly chopped liver, and that was her one and only day to get a big win over Graf.

halalula1234 · Jan 28, 2009

Aus open This year is like one of the worst slams i;ve seen. The players all seems very slack! how much worst can it get?

rolandg · Jan 28, 2009

mjwtpro1 said:
OK...I know she's a Nun and all but in watching the commentary provided by Andrea Jaeger on that Graf Seles Open Final 96'...she's talking out her A double Q...pretty poor, I completely disagree that Monica would rather play someone ranked 350 :shock:...such garbage....Seles was possibly the BEST competitor ever even during her "stay puffed marshmallow man days"....random and unsubstantiated comment from Andrea...Sorry . Just a thought.

There is a thread on here somewhere where Jaeger talks about throwing her Wimbledon final against Nav and the reasons why she did it, and she does come across as a bit of a loon. Obviously a nice woman though.

nickynu · Jan 28, 2009

world number 1 and would achieve the grand slam this year if she was still prime graf. no question

Warriorroger · Jan 28, 2009

rolandg said:
Graf lost more slam finals to Seles than she did anyone else, so if you say Seles didn't bother Graf then you are a bit of a ******. A bit like saying Nadal doesn't bother Fed, or Fed doesn't bother Nadal, or Agassi didn't bother Sampras etc.

It's also the slam/ slam final record. Doesn't matter how many times you beat someone in a tier 1 event. If you can't do it in the slams, it doesn't matter. Bit like Fed/ Murray at the moment.

Graf herself said Seles was a tough player in a recent interview.

CEvertFan · Jan 28, 2009

rolandg said:
There is a thread on here somewhere where Jaeger talks about throwing her Wimbledon final against Nav and the reasons why she did it, and she does come across as a bit of a loon. Obviously a nice woman though.

I posted that thread.

rolandg · Jan 28, 2009

CEvertFan said:
I posted that thread.

Can't remember what her reasons were, but they were a bit unusual.

How well would a prime steffi graf do in today's game?

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