Mixed Doubles Tactics

List one of some of the tactics you use in Mixed Doubles....I'll start off......

1. When serving, I always serve Australian to the deuce side so that I can cover any lobs over the ladies head.

I have never been able to take mixed doubles seriously. I was asked to play in a mixed league once, and agreed to do it... but I could not except as anything more than a social event.

Tactics... I guess like any other doubles... create a hole and hit a winner through it. And hit the ball at the weaker player... (not always the guy). I also like making the partner pay for a bad shot (ie. player puts up a weak shot, I drill it at the partner). And I guess poaching off the return of serve is always fun.

2. Don't play mixed.

Just like regular dubs:
1) High 1st serve %
2) Keep returns low and away from the net person
a) if they play "I" return it where the net person is crouching (still low tho)
3) Control the net
4) When in doubt go up the middle

PS: All this crap Iv heard about hitting it to the girl is dumb! Alot of girls Iv hit with (especially my gf) have great reaction times and good block volleys.

Here are some tactics I use:

1) Play to my partner's strengths (ie. let them choose the side, don't tell them to do things they aren't good at, adapt my own strategy around their strengths)
2) Recently I began cheating a little bit to the center line when my partner is serving to kinda force my opponents to go for more alley returns, or to aim for wider angles in hopes that they will hit more errors on their returns. It seems to work better than trying to poach everything and get burnt or botch alot of low volleys. I just kinda hang out there and reverse poach my alley when I need to.
3) Never double fault against the woman. I always hit kick serves to them and reserve the flat serves for the men. It is usually good enough and safer.

Other than that I play normal strategy and don't target the woman just because they may be weaker. I always play the positions and not the players. I'm still learning how to play the positions and varying up my shots, so I don't want to sit there and pull the 'every shot to the woman' or 'every serve down the T/to the backhand' strategy that some pull. I mean its effective to target a weakness, but I don't feel like my game is where I want it to be for me to do that most of the time.

Burt Turkoglu said:

List one of some of the tactics you use in Mixed Doubles....I'll start off......

1. When serving, I always serve Australian to the deuce side so that I can cover any lobs over the ladies head.

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main thing for me to see if she is better at net or her groundstrokes. If she is good at both, little change from normal dubs is needed, but if she only groundstrokes well, it can be tough. When you go to net and she stays back, she will see every ball. I hope she is fast and very good with her GSs.

If she volleys well, it works good as she can hold down her side and they will hit to you if you are not at net, as well as you can join her at net at the right times.

Hit normal balls to the normal player.
Hit tough incoming balls to the weaker player.
Be consistent and strong.
Can't assume any sex in tennis is automatically weaker or stronger than than the other.

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

Good stuff, CindyS....
I've been that guy a few times.
Good thing about tennis AND life, there are no universal rules.

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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This sounds a little delusional to me. Have you exactly played with a female partner against two 3.5 men? You might believe your male partner is the reason you lose matches, but play against him and its probably a different story. I haven't seen 4.5 women who are as good as the 3.5Ws in your league.

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

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Bad doubles match? I don't think you can make blanket statements about the games of either sex.

I have played with women who have displayed some of those characteristics. As far as lobs go I find its many of the women who are anti-lob and anti-moonball.

Not that it bothers me - they just get ticked off at eachother when one of them starts up doing it. As far as not transitioning to the net. I actually wish more people played like that. Its alot worse to charge in at the net if you suck up there!

Pete

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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having a bad hair day? you gripe about the same things with your ladies.play with people at your skill and knowledge level so you dont get frustrated.

Seems you are painting all men with one brush... this is not me for sure.

Cindysphinx said:

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

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I am going to keep the ball in play, and will put the ball away when the percentages are in my favor.

Cindysphinx said:

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

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I am a natural server and volleyer and will be coming to the net on every opportunity... including both serves... this does not change for men's or mixed doubles.... unless of course... see your point 3

Cindysphinx said:

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

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You do not play australian for the sake of playing australian, I will do it at crucial times for the opponent to give them something different to deal with. I guess I am too civilized to be jumping around the net to throw off my opponent, I will faint the occasional poach but this is a gentlemens game isn't it? When forced to by my partner I will play back, because playing one back and one up is the worse formation you can play (do you come to the net behind your serve). And I stand between the service line and the singles sideline for my partners serve, thankyou very much.

Cindysphinx said:

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

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Not sure what you are trying to say here...

Cindysphinx said:

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

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I have no problems hitting a lob when required... usually in a defensive position or an offensive lob if both opponents are tight on the net... But I have no interest having four people on the baseline hitting lobs back and forth add infinitum...


Oh and one more thing, I am going to give you every chance to miss the ball... I will not take any of your shots (unless being a woman you decide that it is something you didn't want to hit because it was too fast, too high, too low, or you were admiring what a nice outfit the woman on court 2 is wearing, see I can "APPEAR" to be a sexist too)... and I will encourage you to cover any shot you feel you can make.


I used to play with women that had scholarships from universities and open players, though they hit a nice ball... and fun to play with recreationally it was really not that competitive.

I think maybe neither Cindy nor I should be playing mixed.

Serve excessive kick serves to the lady.
Other than that play doubles like normal. (my former mixed partner played doubles for Clemson)

I think Cindy was MOCKING you guys with your sterotypical labelling of the styles of men and women. Keep a smile on, guys.
And one of my MIXED DOUBLES partners went on to WIN the CanadianOpen in singles! Obviously, she broke some of the rules you guys set.
And depending on skill levels, some women can lob much better, deeper, and more accurately than some men, leading to total frustration and scrambling for the serving team. Don't belive for one second you can "just put the overhead" away. Some women can mix tops, sides, and backspins on different lobs!
Oh, and another of my mixed doubles partners also won the same CanadianOpen, albeit 4 years later! :shock::shock:

Oh in that case LeeD

Cindysphinx said:

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

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Tired of you missing every shot you attempt to play... I am forced to try to make a winner before you lose us another point.

Cindysphinx said:

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

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It is hard to cover 3/4 of the net and make every volley at full stretch. After an hour of this kind of play I just don't have the energy to get to the net anymore.

Cindysphinx said:

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

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Why use signals you don't cover me anyway, and the reason I don't play australian is the same reason I have one foot in the doubles alley I am tired of being hit in the head with your serve.

Cindysphinx said:

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

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I guess Women are from Venus and Men are truly from Mars

Cindysphinx said:

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

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As mentioned above, I am tired of covering 3/4 of the court and if I am going to lose the point lets put me out of my misery quickly, why prelong the agony.


Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel much better now, was it good for you?

LeeD said:

I think Cindy was MOCKING you guys with your sterotypical labelling of the styles of men and women. Keep a smile on, guys.

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Nah, I'm not convinced (due to other threads). I think she believes alot of what she wrote. Not a big deal, tennis is a deceptive sport. I mean heck I played in a social mixed match recently where I was with a 3.5 woman against a former D1 college female (unranked, current age is mid-20s) and 3.0 guy, and it was a competitive match. I would say I was the best player on the court that day. So if a D1 college female doesn't give me trouble, I don't think some 3.5 women using Aussie and signals is going to bother me.

Alas...
I've been the recipient of having the honor of being the WORST of the foresome playing with THREE women!
One former world #4, one then current #35 odd, and one up and coming #1 for WashingtonHighSchool in SanFrancisco. At least I could hit a really hard serve out constantly..
And they all thought my Twist out wide to their forehands was absurd and useless. As usual, at that level, their backhands were more consistent than their forehands. Forehands bigger weapons, of course.

LeeD said:

Alas...
I've been the recipient of having the honor of being the WORST of the foresome playing with THREE women!
One former world #4, one then current #35 odd, and one up and coming #1 for WashingtonHighSchool in SanFrancisco. At least I could hit a really hard serve out constantly..
And they all thought my Twist out wide to their forehands was absurd and useless. As usual, at that level, their backhands were more consistent than their forehands. Forehands bigger weapons, of course.

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Well I think your experiences don't really apply when we're talking about recreational tennis leagues. I don't think I've ever stepped on court with someone who could actually win a match at say 5.0.

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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Some male members of mixed doubles teams are legitimately this dumb.

However, I've seen repeated examples where men coming from winning playoff teams make the same mistakes. Why? Because they have to shoulder way too much of the load. They can't be content to hit their typical neutral ball because their female partner's don't have the same offensive punch as their usual male partners. Same thing w/net play. Volleys are about what happens during the approach/assist. Lousy partners with suspect groundies/tactics leave you exposed up there. They have to do more, so they press, which means more mistakes.

The best mixed doubles tactic is to find a girl who can hold her own. This is hard, due to the demographics involved.

There's a reason most mixed doubles matches look like a fancy game of keep away.

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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The guys u play with must SUCK! Of course I play open so the caliber of player is very high here. But all I do is S&V or Chip'n'Charge in dubs, always been told that to win in doubles u need to control the net. When me and my gf play mixed dub tournys we play I formation alot and poaching is one of my best skills. On occasion ill b caught sluggin it out from the backcourt but that usually ends when my partner poaches off of one of my shots or I hit a winner.

Nice one, guys, we’re in the same boat! About the only thing I’d add is below.

ohplease said:

… The best mixed doubles tactic is to find a girl who can hold her own. This is hard… a reason most mixed doubles matches look like a fancy game of keep away.

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Ripper014 said:

Tired of you missing every shot you attempt to play... I am forced to try to make a winner before you lose us another point.
It is hard to cover 3/4 of the net and make every volley at full stretch. After an hour of this kind of play I just don't have the energy to get to the net anymore.
Why use signals you don't cover me anyway...
As mentioned above, I am tired of covering 3/4 of the court and if I am going to lose the point lets put me out of my misery quickly, why prelong the agony.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh I feel much better now, was it good for you?

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Ripper014 said:

I am going to keep the ball in play, and will put the ball away when the percentages are in my favor.
I am a natural server and volleyer and will be coming to the net on every opportunity... including both serves... this does not change for men's or mixed doubles....
You do not play australian for the sake of playing australian...
I have no problems hitting a lob when required... usually in a defensive position or an offensive lob if both opponents are tight on the net... But I have no interest having for people on the baseline hitting lobs back and forth add infinitum...
Oh and one more thing, I am going to give you every chance to miss the ball... I will not take any of your shots... and I will encourage you to cover any shot you feel you can make...

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Cindysphinx said:

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

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Since the opposition's male is likely to take the backhand side, and since you cannot place your serve tight to his backhand, he's going to run around all of your serves and return a deep, loopy, topspin forehand that will land two feet inside the baseline and most likely inside the tramlines – and just wait for your backhand errors to mount. But every now and then he’ll open the racketface and throw a cross-court drop – just to see what kind of wheels you have... and those balls are all yours...

And on the forehand, again since you cannot place the serve tight to the woman's backhand (or play a wide serve either, for that matter), you'll be teeing her to play cross-court forehand returns. The short ones you'll simply not get to, as you serve and stay back. The deep ones you'll be late in preparing for and you'll just push them down the line for the opponent's male to volley at will - I will not try any heroics and simply turn my back to the net for self-protection.

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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Yep, LoL. so much for her fair and balanced mindset. lol

The best mixed doubles tactic is to find a girl who can hold her own. This is hard, due to the demographics involved.

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I don't know if its demographics or what but most women seem to be in the "dinker" catergory. It's a real pleasure if you can find a woman that can hit out and use spin and power in their game.

Actually when you watch a women who is say on a good college team practicing its almost like watching a different sport compared to those mixed doubles female players.

There is some challenge involved playing those dinkers - you have to try to generate your own pace and learn to clock wimpy serves. Its easy for great players but I am learning to do this. So yes for some men this might encourage too aggressive play.

I am wondering if a WW forehand will make those wimpy serves easier to put away consistently.

Pete

A WW forehand can make it easier to put away floaters, but more likely, a deep ball with your current technique, without overhitting, will do the same thing. Concentrate on depth on your returns, and normal pace, and the rest takes care of itself.

GuyClinch said:

... most women seem to be in the "dinker" catergory... There is some challenge involved playing those dinkers - you have to try to generate your own pace and learn to clock wimpy serves... I am wondering if a WW forehand will make those wimpy serves easier to put away consistently.
Pete

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I play mostly doubles and mixed, the men's standard is about 3.5-4, the women about 3-3.5. At this level, in a mixed match between righties the woman usually takes the forehand and the man the backhand.

In these matches, my standard serve is:-
- from deuce court to the woman, slice with topspin, aiming for the sideline of the service box about one-third of the way up from the service line and slicing / kicking on towards the side (in my last match on Saturday, my first 8 serves from the deuce side were aces, until her partner told her that in order to return it she had to stand on the singles sideline and move out diagonally rather than along the baseline - so serve 9 was a service winner, still slice/top but down the T...);
- from the ad court to the man, kicker right on the far corner of the box, to the backhand.

I must have played about 40 competitive doubles matches in the last 6 months (prety much half mens half mixed) at this level, and have only dropped serve twice, both in one mens doubles match (we lost that, a see-saw tight three-setter).

Now, when returning serve, the man's will usually have some pace so I tend to return it normally. The woman's however, will be a hardish dink first (most often, carrying underspin, as she'll be gripping the racket in near frying-pan fashion so can't really get over or around the ball, so bouncing low), or a slow dink dolly second.

Either serve carries little pace, so to return them well you have to generate your own. Returning from the backhand, my objective is to:-
1) run around all serves to play an inside-out forehand, on the basis that the server won't be able to serve tightly enough or fast enought to force me to play a backhand (and on anything that does hit the corner, then by starting moving diagonally for the run-around I'm also getting in place to play the ball early and across with a high sliced backhand);
2) aim to take the ball at the top of the bounce - and rememberring to bend at the knees when playing a first serve, as the underspin will keep the bounce lower; and
3) play a deep, loopy, topspin forehand (the weight of the shot is in the spin, that will kick the ball towards the backfence after it bounces, rather than a flatter hit) aiming to land it two feet inside the baseline and inside the tramlines, and forcing the server to take it on her backhand - and just wait for her backhand errors to mount. At her level, the only effective return is the lob over my partner, but the topspin that the ball carries quite often jams the backhand and results in a mishit lob (for my partner to smash at the net) or a short lob landing on the service line (which I can quite easily switch across to smash).

And every now and then I shape for the loopy cross to the baseline but then open the racketface and throw a short cross-court drop – just to see what kind of wheels she has...

GuyClinch said:

I don't know if its demographics or what but most women seem to be in the "dinker" catergory. It's a real pleasure if you can find a woman that can hit out and use spin and power in their game.

Actually when you watch a women who is say on a good college team practicing its almost like watching a different sport compared to those mixed doubles female players.

There is some challenge involved playing those dinkers - you have to try to generate your own pace and learn to clock wimpy serves. Its easy for great players but I am learning to do this. So yes for some men this might encourage too aggressive play.

I am wondering if a WW forehand will make those wimpy serves easier to put away consistently.

Pete

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My observations playing mixed and just observing some of the women's leagues (players 2.5 up to 4.5) is that the biggest difference between the men and women is generally movement. I think there is an extreme difference between a middle aged woman and man being able to run down tennis shots and move aggressively around the court. You can add the serve as well, but I've faced men with weak serves who are still difficult to compete against because they move well. So you see even if they can make clean contact with their volleys, they aren't going to get in position quick enough to be that effective at the net. Against the women their good strokes and strategies might work, but the guys are too fast for them.

raiden031 said:

My observations playing mixed and just observing some of the women's leagues (players 2.5 up to 4.5) is that the biggest difference between the men and women is generally movement...

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I tend to agree, my experience of mixed club matches is most women just wait for the ball to play them, with little or no preparatory footwork (the little steps to adjust for the correct distance, contact point and swingplane). The most typical example of this is when the woman serves to the other woman and the ball somehow bounces on the left side of the service box (from the receiver's viewpoint) - I say somehow, because when I specifically ask my partner to place her serves to the receivers' backhands, if she manages 1 in 10 I count myself lucky. Anyhow, in those instances where she manages it, to the other woman, no matter how much of a dolly the serve is, and no matter how unreliable the returner's backhand is, the returner will stay glued to the spot and return on the backhand, rather than move around it and play a simpler and more reliable forehand.

The moral of the story is, if you're a lady that plays club mixed matches, your standing with your men partners will rise exponentially if you simply learn to place your serves better, so you can consistently put them on the receiver's backhand. Of course, the downside is that when you go back to playing your friendly women's doubles your regular opponents will hate you (you'll now be too good for them) and you'll have to find a new set of (better) ladies to play with.

In these matches, my standard serve is:-
- from deuce court to the woman, slice with topspin, aiming for the sideline of the service box about one-third of the way up from the service line and slicing / kicking on towards the side (in my last match on Saturday, my first 8 serves from the deuce side were aces, until her partner told her that in order to return it she had to stand on the singles sideline and move out diagonally rather than along the baseline - so serve 9 was a service winner, still slice/top but down the T...);
- from the ad court to the man, kicker right on the far corner of the box, to the backhand.

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This is interesting. In regular doubles I think the idea is to serve more up the middle because it will allow many good shots for the net person to "finish off" the point.

However I do agree these methods will draw alot of errors. I have fun trying to hit those shots when I play mixed doubles but I never did it as a main tactic. Your idea might be better then mine.. I do find that my partner never finishes of those weak floaters a good down the middle serve can generate..

play a deep, loopy, topspin forehand (the weight of the shot is in the spin, that will kick the ball towards the backfence after it bounces, rather than a flatter hit) aiming to land it two feet inside the baseline and inside the tramlines, and forcing the server to take it on her backhand - and just wait for her backhand errors to mount. At her level, the only effective return is the lob over my partner, but the topspin that the ball carries quite often jams the backhand and results in a mishit lob (for my partner to smash at the net) or a short lob landing on the service line (which I can quite easily switch across to smash).

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I agree this is very great set of tactics. However I play against some servers that don't even DINK well. If your going with the dink serve the only one that's semi passable is the "just barely over the net" serve. But some women hit the "high bouncing" dink. That's just asking to be totally creamed. I been doing it some but I would like to learn a slightly lower risk WW reply.

It's like my next tennis goal. I don't play that often so i try to add like one new shot at time.

I save the deep loopy topspins to the backhands for the women that hit semi-respectable serves. Plus I am not in a league right now. It's just a group of people that rent a court every thursday - some of the players seem to be kinda awful. I can see why one of my buddies quit. I guess they all (the women) rate themselves 3.0-3.5 but..who knows really. I wrote the league coordinator for a 3.5 league this year but he never wrote me back. <g>

Pete

My observations playing mixed and just observing some of the women's leagues (players 2.5 up to 4.5) is that the biggest difference between the men and women is generally movement. I think there is an extreme difference between a middle aged woman and man being able to run down tennis shots and move aggressively around the court. You can add the serve as well, but I've faced men with weak serves who are still difficult to compete against because they move well. So you see even if they can make clean contact with their volleys, they aren't going to get in position quick enough to be that effective at the net. Against the women their good strokes and strategies might work, but the guys are too fast for them.

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Yeah your right on about this. Playing mixed doubles can make even a big guy like myself feel quick. That feeling can fade quick enough in singles though.

I always strive to learn the power game because I don't think I every will be that fast at 6'4" and 210 pounds.. I used to hit alot of slice backhands but it seemed to get me in a pattern of not really hitting them hard enough.. So I hit almost 95% topspin backhands now as you can really power those sometimes.

Pete

GuyClinch said:

This is interesting. In regular doubles I think the idea is to serve more up the middle because it will allow many good shots for the net person to "finish off" the point... However ... I do find that my partner never finishes of those weak floaters a good down the middle serve can generate...

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You're right, if you're playing men's doubles, because the returner will still try to hit a proper backhand. But in mixed doubles the woman will simply block the serve down the middle to her backhand with a lob return over your partner at the net - because she's playing it from the middle of the baseline the chances are it'll land in somewhere vaguely behind your partner, so for you to fetch on your backhand side. Whereas when you return to her from the ad side with the loopy cross-court, she has the angle to contend with (if she blocks it straight, it'll be out, so she has to bring the ball back in) and you get two bites at the cherry - your partner at the net for the short one, you crossing over (but still on the forehand smash) for a slightly deeper one.

The reason why I serve a wide slider to the woman from the deuce side is because I know she will not move early enough to intercept it, and will either wait for the ball to get to her (never!) or will attempt to get it by running along the baseline (at best, she'll get it so low on the bounce she'll have to dig it up and also bring it back inside the court) - again, my partner has the first cut at the shorter ball, and I have the second cut with a high backhand volley if she somehow gets lobbed.

GuyClinch said:

Bad doubles match? I don't think you can make blanket statements about the games of either sex.

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This thread is *full* of blanket statements about women.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it boys?

raiden031 said:

My observations playing mixed and just observing some of the women's leagues (players 2.5 up to 4.5) is that the biggest difference between the men and women is generally movement. I think there is an extreme difference between a middle aged woman and man being able to run down tennis shots and move aggressively around the court. You can add the serve as well, but I've faced men with weak serves who are still difficult to compete against because they move well. So you see even if they can make clean contact with their volleys, they aren't going to get in position quick enough to be that effective at the net. Against the women their good strokes and strategies might work, but the guys are too fast for them.

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I have a good record playing mixed - and I think this observation is key. You need to divide the court according to your ability to cover and not in half - maybe 60/40 with more court going to the quicker player.

I think the co-ed players also need to understand the tendencies of the other sex. With ground strokes, Women will tend to hit a flatter ball but often hit sharp angles very reliably, whereas men will go more down the middle/at the net player, so you can often anticipate shots pretty accurately.

Cindysphinx said:

This thread is *full* of blanket statements about women.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, isn't it boys?

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How else can you discuss mixed doubles tactics without generalizations? You can't say, well there is no difference between mixed tennis tactics and men's tennis tactics because there is no difference between men and women on the tennis court. That is plain incorrect.

Sure, go ahead and generalize. I certainly do.

I just sensed some resentment when I tossed out some generalizations for you fellas to think about, that's all . . .

It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table. There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

Cindysphinx said:

It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table. There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

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: sound of dogs barking, crickets chirping :

Don't make me go get Topaz.

Cindysphinx said:

Sure, go ahead and generalize. I certainly do.

I just sensed some resentment when I tossed out some generalizations for you fellas to think about, that's all . . .

It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table. There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

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Only because your generalizations didn't reflect what others see. I'm not offended by generalizations if they are true. I mean what women actually play good at the net compared to men of the same NTRP? Not in my area.

As mentioned above, I find that women tend to hit better angles and be more consistent than men at the same NTRP. Just watch any women's match and you will see long cross-court exchanges.

Mixed doubles? You mean a singles match with a handicap ? ;-)

1. If you're a guy, do not go into a cross rally from the baseline with a girl, because you will lose most of the time because you feel you have to win the point. Make her think, go to the net.

2. If your partner (girl) is serving and you are at the net, always feint a poach, or poach for real. Make your opponent think you are doing something.

3. A bit of a cliche, but if both opponents are at the net, and you are both at the baseline, hit the ball to the girl. Except if the girl has better volleys of course.

4. As a returner you should hit a return straight instead of cross more than once, let your opponent guess.

Cindysphinx said:

Tactics for mixed? Sure!

1. The guy is going to overhit. Try not to let this bother you.

2. The guy is going to play the net poorly, or on a good day average. He has good groundies and a good serve, but he is just not comfortable up there. He will not transition to net, ever.

3. The guy will not know how to poach using signals or play Australian. He will not fake or otherwise try to bother the returner. He will not understand the benefits of playing two-back. He may start every point on your serve with one foot in the doubles alley. He is not especially knowledgeable about doubles, as he doesn't consider it "real tennis" and he's not a fan of all that book learnin'.

4. He will not know the Rules or the Code. See Rule 3 about book learnin'.

5. He would rather die than be seen hitting a lob.

I think that about covers i!

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If #3 is true, the rest is likely at least somewhat true. #1 & #5 are likely to be true regardless. Having said that, in my extremely limited experience with mixed, it seems like it tends to draw men who are doubles specialists and repel mens singles players (whom you are describing).

Nellie said:

As mentioned above, I find that women tend to hit better angles and be more consistent than men at the same NTRP. Just watch any women's match and you will see long cross-court exchanges.

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I tend to agree that if you compare men and women of the same NTRP level rallying when no movement is required, the women can win the rally. As soon as you direct the ball away from them its over and the man has the advantage.

When I watch a women's league match, I will see baseline rallies because the net persons aren't doing anything and just standing in one spot! They are great at hitting clean volleys from that spot though!

Its easy in mixed to see the male partner overhitting a few times, or botching a couple poaches while the woman doesn't miss her volleys (because she only hits volleys right in front of her) and overhits less, and then come to the conclusion that the woman is better. I think it has more to do with the man trying to overcompensate and trying to play above their skill level. They are still the better player though. I mean I've blown alot of free points in 7.0 mixed with a 3.0 partner, does that mean my partner is better than me? I'm more successful at 8.0 mixed than 7.0 mixed.

raiden031 said:

Only because your generalizations didn't reflect what others see. I'm not offended by generalizations if they are true. I mean what women actually play good at the net compared to men of the same NTRP? Not in my area.

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Oh, wow.

What women of same NTRP level play the net better than men of the same level? *A lot.*

Let me tell you about my 7.0 mixed match last night. I was paired with a 3.5 guy. Our opponents were a self-rated 3.0 50-year-old guy who played at Nationals (therefore really 3.5-4.0) and his 3.5 partner, a woman I know well. She plays tennis non-stop and is at least 60 years old. I have partnered with her, and she wins a lot.

First set: We cannot put a ball on the court. I'm in ad and lefty partner is in deuce, our usual receiving formation. Dude serves wide to our BHs and kills us. When we do get a rally going, woman hits impossible angles at net and mid-court, always finding the open court, always in good position at net. Wins overheads with placement, not power. 0-6 in a heartbeat.

Second set: We switch receiving sides, so now we can get some points started. Woman keeps putting balls away at net, but her partner rarely tries to do anything and misses volleys when he does. He doesn't poach, doesn't move, doesn't fake. He starts missing his groundies and serves, and a racket was thrown. We discover and exploit their weaknesses. Partner drop-shots the woman and serves to BH of guy, with my job being to take off poaching when I see the ball go to his BH. I hit topspin lobs over the BH of the guy, and when he backs up I hit topspin drives down the alley. We win second set 6-4 (after leading 5-1) and match tiebreak 11-9.

Now. There is no question in my mind that my female opponent had far, far superior net play to her partner. He made no move to fake, poach or get any of the dropshots. He wasn't able to stop me from hitting winners down the alley, off of the return or mid-point. The woman helped him hold at net, especially in the second set, but he didn't do a thing to help her hold. I am also quite certain that I am a stronger 3.5 at net than he is.

I don't know this fellow, so I don't know if he would blame his partner for this loss. He could say her serve is weak. He could say her mobility is poor. He could say her groundies lack topspin. He could say that, I guess. What he cannot say is that his net play is better than hers. And bottom line, his miscues from the backcourt and inability to play the net well were what cost them the match.

So I'm not buying that men are better at playing the net than women of the same NTRP level. That is not what I experience.

Cindysphinx said:

Sure, go ahead and generalize. I certainly do.

I just sensed some resentment when I tossed out some generalizations for you fellas to think about, that's all . . .

It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table.

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Well Cindy you painted a pretty generalized profile of what a male mixed doubles player plays like. And yes I took a little offense to it, because to be honest I have yet to encounter a case where the women was the stronger player. I have been playing for hmmm... 20 years now, granted I have played with women that were better players than some of the men I have played with... but never on the same court. I would say there is at least a full level between women and men ie. 3.0 man and a 4.0 woman.

So what do women bring to a tennis match..? In a recreational setting... a smile and break from competitive tennis. In a competitive match... I have no idea, perhaps my worse confrontation on a tennis court was in a mixed doubles club tournament where my partner was verbally abusing the our male opponent what I would consider unsportsmanlike conduct. Fist pumping, screaming after every winner etc... my male counterpart had just about enough and got into a verbal exchange with her... After I got things calmed down... I took her aside and tried to get her to curb her conduct... but she said to me if they cannot take it screw them. I think that was the last time I played competitive mixed (we won the tournament by the way).

Like I said in another thread... playing mixed for me has always been a no win situation. I always have to temper my game because I don't feel the woman can protect herself from the speed of the game I play in my mens game. In mixed I find myself missing shots because I am trying to hit around the woman (rather than thru when required)... or because I am trying to take something off my shot. On a bad short lob (and I don't know why) the woman is always right where I want to hit my overhead. If it man is standing there... I would just hit it through him... with the woman there is always some offence taken if I do the same.

Cindysphinx said:

There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

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You ladies do well in mixed because of your partner or the fact that someone has to win 50% of the time.

Lets be honest here... your original post was full of barbs... and an attack on male tennis players... what did you expect as a response? A few barbs back...

Nellie said:

As mentioned above, I find that women tend to hit better angles and be more consistent than men at the same NTRP. Just watch any women's match and you will see long cross-court exchanges.

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Actually my game is built around playing angles... unless you give me something high over the net... then yes I will hit it was pace and put the ball away.

As far as cross-court exchanges... well when I play doubles points seldom last more than few shots... serve, first volley and volley winner or a forced error. I am under no illusions that there are still a lot of forced errors (and even unforced errors) in our game. The only time I see long cross-court rallys is in singles. I play doubles at the net when at all possible.

Cindysphinx said:

I don't know this fellow, so I don't know if he would blame his partner for this loss. He could say her serve is weak.

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For me the hardest thing to do is to poach when you partner has no serve... I know as a receiving player against someone with no serve is that I can hold the ball on my racket forever... and if you do not poach early then it doesn't matter I can hit the ball cross-court beyond your reach no matter how fast you are... if you do poach early I can direct it down the line, and if for whatever reason I am in doubt it is an easy ball to lob (oh wait men don't do that). What I feel you don't seem to understand is that it is much easier to pick off weak returns from a strong serve, than being held hostage with a weak serve.

And if your partner has no mobility... you are dead in the water on her service game... since you are at the net covering the smallest portion of the court. They would probably had been better off playing two back (another thing men don't do).

In a competitive situation I think someone earlier in this thread put it best when they said... Mixed Doubles is a game of keep away...

Nice to see you back and responding to this thread Cindy I have been looking forward to it.

Cindysphinx said:

She plays tennis non-stop and is at least 60 years old. I have partnered with her, and she wins a lot.

...

Now. There is no question in my mind that my female opponent had far, far superior net play to her partner. He made no move to fake, poach or get any of the dropshots. He wasn't able to stop me from hitting winners down the alley, off of the return or mid-point. The woman helped him hold at net, especially in the second set, but he didn't do a thing to help her hold. I am also quite certain that I am a stronger 3.5 at net than he is.

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Hahaha I guarantee if you hit a ball 3 feet away from this 60 year old woman at the net, she will miss every time.

I have not stepped foot on a tennis court in the past 3 seasons and actually witness a female who had what I would I consider an aggressive volleying game, when compared to a good 3.5 men's volley game. And we're talking about females up to 4.5.

So there might be 3.5 men who suck at the net, but I'd say if I want to generalize league playing women, I'd say the most common strength is consistent neutral groundstrokes.

Cindysphinx said:

Sure, go ahead and generalize. I certainly do.

I just sensed some resentment when I tossed out some generalizations for you fellas to think about, that's all . . .

It would be extra nifty if someone pointed out what the female member of a mixed team brings to the table. There must be *something* we ladies do well in a mixed match, right?

Right?

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Forget mixed doubles - good doubles partners make the game easier. They set up their partners with more assists than other players - or they put away more balls than other players. Ideally, a doubles team will have the point guard and the finisher working very well together.

To a woman, all of my mixed doubles partners have made the game harder. They certainly don't put away more balls than my male partners - which is fine, as maybe that's just a result of the difference in strength or size or height, or maybe a result of women's doubles generally being more passive than men's.

The problem is the also aren't very effective point guards either. They're not doing as much to generate offensive chances for me - at least not as many as my male partners. Even compared to my weaker male partners when I'm the allegedly strong one in combo.

The very best teams I've seen (mixed or otherwise) have members that can play both point guard and finisher. The next step down has a dedicated point guard, and dedicated finisher. The bottom rung has one player trying to do it all. If the female members of mixed doubles teams want to keep their male partners from feeling they have to do it all, the solution is in the mirror. Either stop squandering offensive chances, or get better at creating them. Complaining about how "he" is throwing away points is misinterpreting why he's got to play that way.

BTW - why is that, exactly? It's cause frankly, you're just not bringing enough to the table.

There are a select few women who legitimately make doubles easier. There are more who are very good at keeping things neutral until the other team coughs up something to kill. Most, however, are soft targets.

Cindysphinx said:

Oh, wow.



So I'm not buying that men are better at playing the net than women of the same NTRP level. That is not what I experience.

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the net player often gets the glory when the partner hit the forcing shot to allow the net player to shine

Cindysphinx said:

Oh, wow.

What women of same NTRP level play the net better than men of the same level? *A lot.*

So I'm not buying that men are better at playing the net than women of the same NTRP level. That is not what I experience.

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It's rough when your pack turns on you.