My Serve/ Video Soon!

So I have some vids from a few months back and would like to compare with some I recorded today. I would like to show the vid with this post, but Vimeo is down right now. I can't upload them till later today I hope. Some things that changed over the last few months (6-7) is my grip. I will post pics of my grips before & after. I did this to try and work on my 2nd serve. All I would do during singles and dubs was 2nd serves. So far, great results as my opponents don't move in as much to destroy my serve. I also get more topspin and consistency. My 1st serve though, is somewhat gone. With the grip I had, I felt like it was a tad bit faster, with this new grip, I feel like I just have more margin for error. I'm no expert, so let me know what you guys think.

Things I've noticed about my serve.

1. My toss is awful. It goes everywhere. I do compensate and just hit it anyways at times.

2. I kick my right leg out. Habit that doesn't hinder my movement, but I'll hear what ya'll have to say.

3. I don't finish with my frame on my left side. I'm a righty and from what I hear on the boards, after tou make contact with the ball; the frame should come across your body.

4. I throw the ball above me, not forward and above.

5. Going back to #4, my toss doesn't move my body forward into the court. I see the pros hit and their bodies are flung forward and they step into the court.

So to wrap things up, few things I would like help on. My toss. I need to get it consistently in the same spot. Is my serve good? Meaning can I progress with the way I'm hitting it now? If I fixed the little things here and there, will it help my in the long run? Is my serve damaging to my body? Does it look or seem off in some way?

Thanks guy,

Storm

PS: How do you flip recorded videos? I filmed 1 with the camera at the side and I don't you guys to kill you necks trying to watch is sideways.

Grip Pics

Old Grip. I don't know which this is. I just held the frame and I knew where I wanted it to be.



New Grip.



Names?

I feel your pain. My toss can be very erratic; however, when my toss is on, I serve a ton better.

I have noticed that the less I think about my toss, the better the toss. I don't know if that makes any sense but the toss is all in the head for me. For example, when I had my GF record my serves the other day, I was thinking "I need to toss well, bend knees, etc." In some ways, too much thinking was counter productive.

The key to a good toss for most people is a straight arm. Dave Sammel (a top english coach) says toss such that you imagine your arm has a piece of wood holding it straight. Its a good tip and has helped my toss alot.

Yes other things can go wrong but for most people its the bending of the arm that's causing the problem IMHO. Also hold the ball in your fingertips..

Pete

Another thing that might help your toss is where you release it. Make sure that you're consistent about that part as well. So decide where you feel you're most comfortable releasing the ball (for example, about your shoulder height), and then make sure to release the ball every time from that same position.

Another aid for your Toss.

Not only the arm but how you hold the ball. Like Pete said, Your fingers can be a culprit in throwing your toss out of line. Try holding the ball with more of your finger tips and not closer to your palm. This will help you feel the ball and help release it better.

If you have a problem with a finger rolling the ball out of whack with your release, try holding the ball with it placed on top of your pointing finger and thumb touching, and your other three fingers cupping the ball like an ice cream cone. At release let your pointer finger release and the ball will fly up off your thumb and three fingers that have formed an ice cream cone.

Since we're all focusing on the toss....
Most wild toss locations are due to TOO MUCH arm, wrist, or finger movement. So limit that with a higher prep. Hold the ball like you would a hot drink, middle finger on the bottom, fore and thumb on the sides (takes wrists out of the equation)
PRACTICE tossing at home, on the way to work, in school, at work, on the T courts. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT THE BALL TO GO! Try a lower toss so you can hit the ball just after it's apex.....more room for error.
Pretend you are NOT Sharapova or Dementieva, you just want to date them.

LeeD said:

Since we're all focusing on the toss....
Most wild toss locations are due to TOO MUCH arm, wrist, or finger movement. So limit that with a higher prep. Hold the ball like you would a hot drink, middle finger on the bottom, fore and thumb on the sides (takes wrists out of the equation)
PRACTICE tossing at home, on the way to work, in school, at work, on the T courts. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT THE BALL TO GO! Try a lower toss so you can hit the ball just after it's apex.....more room for error.
Pretend you are NOT Sharapova or Dementieva, you just want to date them.

Click to expand...

Classic. Best advice ever.

Thanks for all the replies, I have the vids ready and after you guys take a look, let me know if you can pin-point exactly what it is about my toss that's off.

Samster,

I do have that problem at times, but I really don't think too much about my toss. I just do it, maybe that's my hitch. I just don't think of where I need to have it and just hit it.


Here's my old video from back in April. You guys can use this as reference.
http://www.vimeo.com/7559644

New Vids

http://www.vimeo.com/7559762
I liked how I hit better in this one. The other vids was shot first.

http://www.vimeo.com/7559886

Ugly misshits. Ugh...

PS: Funny it looks like the same outfit, but notice anything different? (sock & short colors are different)

Looks like we got similar problems on the service (as shown by view by the side) where we are not tossing in front of us; as a result, we are not getting the forward lean momentum to explode UP and INTO the serve.

LeeD said:

Since we're all focusing on the toss....
Most wild toss locations are due to TOO MUCH arm, wrist, or finger movement. So limit that with a higher prep. Hold the ball like you would a hot drink, middle finger on the bottom, fore and thumb on the sides (takes wrists out of the equation)
PRACTICE tossing at home, on the way to work, in school, at work, on the T courts. LOOK WHERE YOU WANT THE BALL TO GO! Try a lower toss so you can hit the ball just after it's apex.....more room for error.
Pretend you are NOT Sharapova or Dementieva, you just want to date them.

Click to expand...

Honestly I avoid using the term toss too much. I try to think of it and teach it as a release instead of a toss. Some people seem to think toss a throw and use too much like you said here.

samster said:

Looks like we got similar problems on the service (as shown by view by the side) where we are not tossing in front of us; as a result, we are not getting the forward lean momentum to explode UP and INTO the serve.

Click to expand...

Agree 100% here. First thing to fix is the toss location and consistancy. Would be nice to see an angle from behind you as well - not just from the side. I'm confident that you aren't really getting that ball toss out in front enough. It seems as if you let it drop it will drop maybe on the baseline or just behind it. Not good. Fix this first in my opinion because otherwise you conflict your swing by making adjustments to a poor ball toss. Make sense?

samster said:

Looks like we got similar problems on the service (as shown by view by the side) where we are not tossing in front of us; as a result, we are not getting the forward lean momentum to explode UP and INTO the serve.

Click to expand...

I've tried a few times and it does help, but like stated earlier, I just can't put the ball there all the time.

Rambler,

I agree and understand what you're saying. I do have a video from the back, but I took it sideways and I'm not too sure how to edit it before upload it on the site. You will have to move your head sideways to watch it and that wouldn't be good. So anyone know how to rotate the video? I can do that on my player, but that doesn't permanently change it.

Hey, you are young and I am sure you will continue to improve.

I, on the other hand, will probably need to start looking at oversize extended tweener frames.

Just a side note or thought:

My assumption on those serves is that you are going for a flat first serve with pace. Not necessarily looking for a kicker or slice serve. I'm just saying this because of course if you were trying for more spin etc your toss would need to be different than what I previously stated.

I agree with Rambler. If these serves were kick serves, I think the toss location is fine. If these serves were flat serves, the location should be a little more in front. (Again, easier said than done.)

Well, I don't think I hit them flat. My opponents do tell me they have some nice kick. I hit the ball at 12oclock. I really brush up at the ball. I don't really meet the ball straight on as I think you would on aflat serve. I'm not really going for a flat serve per say, just a serve with some good pace.

I think its ultimately impotant that you know what you INTEND to do with your serve. Don't focus on what results you have as you currently hit but be specific about what exactly you want and I think it will be easier for the community to give you advice.

For example: "I want a big first serve with solid pace but would prefer more of a kicker for a 2nd"

Then you can practice based on what you intend to do

I'm not an expert but it looks like your old grip was Continental and your new one is more of an Eastern backhand. Most everyone here seems to agree that Continental is prefered for most serves because of the way it allows you to pronate and get extra pace on the ball. An Eastern backhand grip would impart some extra spin on kicks.

First off I agree that you need to decide what serve you are trying for then you can change things to make the ball do different things. I'd work on a flat serve first as it should be easiest to master and at lower levels will be all you will need for a while. Then the thinking is slice and when that is mastered kick.

I have a similar second serve to yours. Toss more infront. Also toss higher so you can bend your knees a lil more.

Ken Honecker said:

I'm not an expert but it looks like your old grip was Continental and your new one is more of an Eastern backhand. Most everyone here seems to agree that Continental is prefered for most serves because of the way it allows you to pronate and get extra pace on the ball. An Eastern backhand grip would impart some extra spin on kicks.

First off I agree that you need to decide what serve you are trying for then you can change things to make the ball do different things. I'd work on a flat serve first as it should be easiest to master and at lower levels will be all you will need for a while. Then the thinking is slice and when that is mastered kick.

Click to expand...

First is more eastern forehand grip. Second picture is conti - the index knuckle is on bevel 2.

Although again as I stated elsewhere I swear some people have the terminology a bit different here in terms of knuckle location to indicate what type of grip.

I've never focused on the knuckle. I always thought you could go by the vee between the thumb and forefinger. Isn't it Conti when your are holding it with the vee on what I'd call the top bevel like you'd hold a hammer? Then the Eastern is one bevel left or right depending on forehand and backhand?

Rambler124 said:

I think its ultimately impotant that you know what you INTEND to do with your serve. Don't focus on what results you have as you currently hit but be specific about what exactly you want and I think it will be easier for the community to give you advice.

For example: "I want a big first serve with solid pace but would prefer more of a kicker for a 2nd"

Then you can practice based on what you intend to do

Click to expand...

Well ultimately that's what we all want right, a nice big 1st serve with pace and placement.

As for 2nd, just a reliable serve that I won't feel dreaded to hit. It could be a kicker or a slice. I think I will have more trouble with a slice that a kick serve.

I'm still trying to figure out how to edit my video. I just can't rotate it clockwise so it's the right way.