Clinic woes, again

Klaus · Jan 12, 2010

O the humanity! As I have reported before, I attend a very competitive clinic. Last night, playing Australian doubles (I was the single), I went for a lob, saw it hit just past the baseline and let it go. I called it out, and one of my opponents went beserk, then stomped off the court. I was ahead 8-3 (we play till 11) The remaining player and I continued, as the pro fed us balls, and afterward, I approached the player who stomped off.

I told him it was very unsportsman-like to pout and stomp off, and the ball was out. He said that all my calls were bad, and that's the only reason I had won all the singles matches I had played recently (40-5), none of which he had ever seen. This was the first time this player had ever questioned any of my line calls in the past year.

I just packed up my stuff and left, and told him I wouldn't be back, to which he said "good."

Good lord--where do these people come from? Mind you, I have encouraged this guy for months, given him some minor tips, as he is quite inexperienced and plays tennis like urban basketball, running past the ball, slamming it out of the court, slamming stuff into the net after running and leaping, and talking trash to people all the time, shouting at them as they are about to hit the ball.

WTF? I feel bad, because other than this idiot, the clinic has been very good. How do you handle these poor sports?

JRstriker12 · Jan 12, 2010

Klaus said:
O the humanity! As I have reported before, I attend a very competitive clinic. Last night, playing Australian doubles (I was the single), I went for a lob, saw it hit just past the baseline and let it go. I called it out, and one of my opponents went beserk, then stomped off the court. I was ahead 8-3 (we play till 11) The remaining player and I continued, as the pro fed us balls, and afterward, I approached the player who stomped off.

I told him it was very unsportsman-like to pout and stomp off, and the ball was out. He said that all my calls were bad, and that's the only reason I had won all the singles matches I had played recently (40-5), none of which he had ever seen. This was the first time this player had ever questioned any of my line calls in the past year.

I just packed up my stuff and left, and told him I wouldn't be back, to which he said "good."

Good lord--where do these people come from? Mind you, I have encouraged this guy for months, given him some minor tips, as he is quite inexperienced and plays tennis like urban basketball, running past the ball, slamming it out of the court, slamming stuff into the net after running and leaping, and talking trash to people all the time, shouting at them as they are about to hit the ball.

WTF? I feel bad, because other than this idiot, the clinic has been very good. How do you handle these poor sports?

I don't, I usually get a clinic together with about 4-5 of my like-minded tennis friends and teammates so we generally don't have to tolerate people like that.

But FWIW - why quit cause this guy is being an idiot? He has to learn to deal with calls, both good and bad. If you quit, he learns that he can shake people and bend them to his will through his bad behavoir on court. I would have called the ball and left it at that.

BTW- where was the pro in all of this? I'm sure the pro doesn't want people leaving his/her clinic because one player is being a disruptive azz. The pro should have said something... or at least, you or the other player should say something to the pro to the effect, we are not paying to play in your clinic if this guy keeps up his rude behavior.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

I don't... people have the right to do as they please. But the one thing I try not to do is to tell them that they are wrong. At most I would say, "I'm sorry, I honestly thought the ball was out". And it may well have been... none of us are infallible. The one thing I do when playing tennis whether it is for fun or competition is I always give the benefit of the call to my opponent... unless it is clearly out I call it in. Almost every match I ever play an opponent at some point will correct me and tell me that the ball was out when I call it in.

We do not play for millions of dollars... lives do not hinge on any single point that we play, I just go out and try and enjoy my time on the court. Once it is no longer any fun... I would again step away from the game for another hiatus.

gameboy · Jan 12, 2010

Personally, as soon as the other player objects, I would give him the call.

This is not even a league match. It is during a drill. Who cares whether or not you are right? Just give him the point and move on. I just don't think it is worth arguing about ANY call during a drill.

One foot in and you call it out? No problem. I call in and you think it is out? Sure, go ahead you can have the point.

Why make the life more difficult than it needs to be?

skiracer55 · Jan 12, 2010

It's called the Little League syndrome...

Klaus said:
O the humanity! As I have reported before, I attend a very competitive clinic. Last night, playing Australian doubles (I was the single), I went for a lob, saw it hit just past the baseline and let it go. I called it out, and one of my opponents went beserk, then stomped off the court. I was ahead 8-3 (we play till 11) The remaining player and I continued, as the pro fed us balls, and afterward, I approached the player who stomped off.

I told him it was very unsportsman-like to pout and stomp off, and the ball was out. He said that all my calls were bad, and that's the only reason I had won all the singles matches I had played recently (40-5), none of which he had ever seen. This was the first time this player had ever questioned any of my line calls in the past year.

I just packed up my stuff and left, and told him I wouldn't be back, to which he said "good."

Good lord--where do these people come from? Mind you, I have encouraged this guy for months, given him some minor tips, as he is quite inexperienced and plays tennis like urban basketball, running past the ball, slamming it out of the court, slamming stuff into the net after running and leaping, and talking trash to people all the time, shouting at them as they are about to hit the ball.

WTF? I feel bad, because other than this idiot, the clinic has been very good. How do you handle these poor sports?

...and these kind of folks ain't likely to change, so you did the only thing that makes sense, which is to pick up your marbles, go home, and look elsewhere for a game of tennis (this isn't Rollerball, right?)...

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

Dude, you gotta find yourself a private clinic so you can avoid these Nutters.

I wouldn't change my call in a drill class. If Klaus saw it out and the other player had said, "Are you sure of your call?", Klaus could have reconsidered or even just given the Nutter the point to avoid the problem.

BTW, is this the same Nutter who was making your life miserable a few months ago, or a new Nutter?

AutoXer · Jan 12, 2010

I've read on here that a Headbutt is in order in these situations.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
Dude, you gotta find yourself a private clinic so you can avoid these Nutters.

I wouldn't change my call in a drill class. If Klaus saw it out and the other player had said, "Are you sure of your call?", Klaus could have reconsidered or even just given the Nutter the point to avoid the problem.

BTW, is this the same Nutter who was making your life miserable a few months ago, or a new Nutter?

Do you just enjoy confrontation..? Does it really matter if the ball was in or out? This is a drill class... it is all about hitting balls and learning something. You can have every point if it matters to you... I am just there to get something out of the class. If it feeds into his ego, all the power to him... I am content to work on my skills and take what I can from the class.

Life is way to short.

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

Ripper014 said:
Do you just enjoy confrontation..? Does it really matter if the ball was in or out? This is a drill class... it is all about hitting balls and learning something. You can have every point if it matters to you... I am just there to get something out of the class. If it feeds into his ego, all the power to him... I am content to work on my skills and take what I can from the class.

Life is way to short.

There wouldn't be any conflict. I would just point my finger and line up for the next point. If he wants to leave, fine.

The issue, IMHO, is whether you are going to reward Bad Behavior by caving in. I wouldn't. You can if you want.

Geezer Guy · Jan 12, 2010

Sure, he acted like a hothead, but sounds like you did as well. Why call him unsportsmanlike and point out the stomping and pouting, then insist that you were right and he was wrong about the linecall? True, he did act in an unsportsman like way, but at the same time the baseline calls are the calls that the pro's usually get wrong when they challenge. You "could" have made a bad line call.
It's just a drill for crying out loud. You could simply give the guys the point, or you could ask the Pro that was feeding balls what he saw.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
There wouldn't be any conflict. I would just point my finger and line up for the next point. If he wants to leave, fine.

The issue, IMHO, is whether you are going to reward Bad Behavior by caving in. I wouldn't. You can if you want.

I understand and respect the point you are making... but I did not go to the class to work on my line calls. You are going to run into these people all over the place, and during matches I do not mind dealing with it... but during a drilling session I would rather use the time to work on my game, because I consider it quality time on the court.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Geezer Guy said:
Sure, he acted like a hothead, but sounds like you did as well. Why call him unsportsmanlike and point out the stomping and pouting, then insist that you were right and he was wrong about the linecall? True, he did act in an unsportsman like way, but at the same time the baseline calls are the calls that the pro's usually get wrong when they challenge. You "could" have made a bad line call.
It's just a drill for crying out loud. You could simply give the guys the point, or you could ask the Pro that was feeding balls what he saw.

Obviously I agree with your point of view... but I would never drag someone else into it. I would just resolve it quickly by giving him the point... and moving forward. Like you said I could have been wrong... and it is just a drill. Even if it wasn't out, a line call is not going to change the world nor my life.

gameboy · Jan 12, 2010

"reward Bad Behavior"???

Oh come on, be a friggin grown up.

I don't care if the ball was 2 feet out, if the guy says "are you sure?" I am going to say "if you want it, it is yours".

It takes two to make a fight. "Fighting for principle" in a DRILL seems like (at least to me) both people are behaving poorly.

JRstriker12 · Jan 12, 2010

Ripper014 said:
I don't... people have the right to do as they please. But the one thing I try not to do is to tell them that they are wrong. At most I would say, "I'm sorry, I honestly thought the ball was out". And it may well have been... none of us are infallible. The one thing I do when playing tennis whether it is for fun or competition is I always give the benefit of the call to my opponent... unless it is clearly out I call it in. Almost every match I ever play an opponent at some point will correct me and tell me that the ball was out when I call it in.

We do not play for millions of dollars... lives do not hinge on any single point that we play, I just go out and try and enjoy my time on the court. Once it is no longer any fun... I would again step away from the game for another hiatus.

gameboy said:
Personally, as soon as the other player objects, I would give him the call.
This is not even a league match. It is during a drill. Who cares whether or not you are right? Just give him the point and move on. I just don't think it is worth arguing about ANY call during a drill.

One foot in and you call it out? No problem. I call in and you think it is out? Sure, go ahead you can have the point.

Why make the life more difficult than it needs to be?

At the rec level, tennis is a game of mutual respect. I have to respect my opponent and the call they make, just as they have to respect me and the calls I make. I have to trust that my opponent is being honest in thier calls and understand that people are human and make mistakes.

If I KNOW (100% sure) that the ball is out, I'm not going to change my call because someone throws a fit. Giving in, only encourages these bad sports. Giving in only encourages this bad behavoir and enables the type of player who tries to win through hooking and mind games. These guys that throw a fit need to learn the lesson on mutual respect and live with the other player's calls or they will continue to act like azz-hats on the court. On the flip side of that, if I make a mistake on a line call, I'll gladly correct myself, but I"m not going to tolerate other people calling thier own shots from the other end of the court, that's not how tennis works.

Sometimes people are wrong and they need to know it. If you want to avoid any conflict, just sit at home on the couch. In a one-on-one game like tennis there will occasioanlly be conflicts and disagreements, the ideal is to learn how to deal with conflict, not cave in and avoid it. People who love the game and play from a place of mutual respect learn to move on and play the next point even when they disagree with the call.

Klaus · Jan 12, 2010

Many good points, as usual.

I am kind of in the frame of mind of Cindysphinx. I suppose that comes from a lot of USTA match experience, which this class is supposed to support: match play and USTA rules. If he had said "are you sure?" I probably would just given him the point. I often play "out" balls in clinic because who really cares? he happens to treat these drills VERY seriously.

As I called it out, and finished my run towards the fence, he had already gone beserk (by doing a brief conniption) and stomped off the court to sit on the bench and watch another set of students. The pro said "let's keep going," so we did.

Cindy, yes, this is the nut who consistently throws his racquet when he loses, screams when his side wins a point, and falls and rolls frequently because he refuses to split-step. Has only occasionally will taunt players as they hit the ball.

I've had it with him, but I did receive an e-mail from the pro: "Armen" said after you left that he was very frustrated because you always "kick his ass. He commented on how much you've helped him in the past, and how much he has improved from your assistance. Sometimes, competitiveness gets the better of people, and I have seen this my whole life in sports, so I guess I am used to it."

Wow, what a way to treat someone who's improved your game! Good riddance to that clinic.

gameboy · Jan 12, 2010

If you are a true gentleman, you should avoid all unnecessary confrontation.

You are not their mother/father. You are not there to "teach a lesson". All you will do by taking that attitude is to show that you are petty.

Save the lessons for real matches. In drills and clinics it is a social event. Get along with others (even those who are difficult) so that all of you can get more out of it without any emotional drama.

You don't have to teach moral lessons every chance you get.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
If you are a true gentleman, you should avoid all unnecessary confrontation.

You are not their mother/father. You are not there to "teach a lesson". All you will do by taking that attitude is to show that you are petty.

Save the lessons for real matches. In drills and clinics it is a social event. Get along with others (even those who are difficult) so that all of you can get more out of it without any emotional drama.

You don't have to teach moral lessons every chance you get.

<<< I'm with that guy... save it for the matches, and even then temper what you say or do.

JRstriker12 · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
If you are a true gentleman, you should avoid all unnecessary confrontation.

You are not their mother/father. You are not there to "teach a lesson". All you will do by taking that attitude is to show that you are petty.

Save the lessons for real matches. In drills and clinics it is a social event. Get along with others (even those who are difficult) so that all of you can get more out of it without any emotional drama.

You don't have to teach moral lessons every chance you get.

I'm not petty, I have principles.

A true gentleman doesn't violate his principles just because the person across the net acts like a spoiled brat. Tennis has a code and rules for a reason, all players should strive to follow them.

I'm not out to teach a lesson every match, but if I'm 100% sure, I'm not changing my call no matter how much the other person tries to do thier best McEnroe.

I get out on the court, I have fun, I'm friendly, I smile and come to the net to shake hands win or lose, I respect my opponent and my opponent's calls, I admit when I make a mistake and do my best to correct calls when I mess up.

I may not agree with the other person's call, but I'll move on and play the next point.

I don't think that's an extraordinary expectation that your opponent has the same sort of respect, even in practice.

The issue isn't my behavoir or the behavoir of the OP who honestly called the ball out, it's the behavoir of the person accross the net. No adult with an ounce of self respect should stomp off if they disagree with the call ESPECIALLY in practice.

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
If you are a true gentleman, you should avoid all unnecessary confrontation.

I fully understand how others could feel differently, but I'm not with you on this, gameboy.

If you "avoid all unnecessary confrontation" in life, you are not necessarily a gentleman. You are without a doubt a Doormat.

Let's remember something here. This is a drill class. There is an unspoken rule in drill classes involving points and line calls: You don't question someone's line call, challenge them or otherwise imply that they are a cheater. You just don't. If my clinic mate calls my serve out when I am certain that it was inside the line, do you know what I do? **Nothing.** I don't ask "Are you sure?" I don't appeal to the pro. I don't raise an eyebrow. That's the mutual respect thing coupled with the let's-not-waste-time thing. If the ball was in by six inches, this guy shouldn't have said anything *and* definitely should not have gone berserk.

Once someone does choose to go berserk on you, then you gotta stand your ground if you can. The reason is two-fold: (1) Bullies have to learn that bullying doesn't work, and (2) standing up to a bully tends to stop the bully from bullying you next time. I suspect that if Klaus has the misfortune to play the Nutter again, the Nutter won't pull this stunt on Klaus. 'Cause it didn't work.

Cindy -- who isn't giving her lunch money to to bullies either

JRstriker12 · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
I fully understand how others could feel differently, but I'm not with you on this, gameboy.

If you "avoid all unnecessary confrontation" in life, you are not necessarily a gentleman. You are without a doubt a Doormat.

Let's remember something here. This is a drill class. There is an unspoken rule in drill classes involving points and line calls: You don't question someone's line call, challenge them or otherwise imply that they are a cheater. You just don't. If my clinic mate calls my serve out when I am certain that it was inside the line, do you know what I do? **Nothing.** I don't ask "Are you sure?" I don't appeal to the pro. I don't raise an eyebrow. That's the mutual respect thing coupled with the let's-not-waste-time thing. If the ball was in by six inches, this guy shouldn't have said anything *and* definitely should not have gone berserk.

Once someone does choose to go berserk on you, then you gotta stand your ground if you can. The reason is two-fold: (1) Bullies have to learn that bullying doesn't work, and (2) standing up to a bully tends to stop the bully from bullying you next time. I suspect that if Klaus has the misfortune to play the Nutter again, the Nutter won't pull this stunt on Klaus. 'Cause it didn't work.

Cindy -- who isn't giving her lunch money to to bullies either

Bingo....

Why tolerate a spoiled brat who's going to ruin the clinic for everyone? It's sort of sad that we call into question, the actions of someone who acted honestly. Why we are supposed to tolerate the actions of someone who behaves badly? So what happens when other person makes a call the "nutter" doesn't like?

If the OP's opponent acted with mutual respect, then this wouldn't have been an issue.

I wonder where the pro was in all of this? If I'm the pro, I wouldn't want to allow the sort of behavoir where one person chases off all the rest of the class because they throw a fit over line calls in PRACTICE - that's just not done.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
I fully understand how others could feel differently, but I'm not with you on this, gameboy.

If you "avoid all unnecessary confrontation" in life, you are not necessarily a gentleman. You are without a doubt a Doormat.

Let's remember something here. This is a drill class. There is an unspoken rule in drill classes involving points and line calls: You don't question someone's line call, challenge them or otherwise imply that they are a cheater. You just don't. If my clinic mate calls my serve out when I am certain that it was inside the line, do you know what I do? **Nothing.** I don't ask "Are you sure?" I don't appeal to the pro. I don't raise an eyebrow. That's the mutual respect thing coupled with the let's-not-waste-time thing. If the ball was in by six inches, this guy shouldn't have said anything *and* definitely should not have gone berserk.

Once someone does choose to go berserk on you, then you gotta stand your ground if you can. The reason is two-fold: (1) Bullies have to learn that bullying doesn't work, and (2) standing up to a bully tends to stop the bully from bullying you next time. I suspect that if Klaus has the misfortune to play the Nutter again, the Nutter won't pull this stunt on Klaus. 'Cause it didn't work.

Cindy -- who isn't giving her lunch money to to bullies either

Bullies are bullies by nature... like a scorpin it will sting you if you let it. I totally agree with your philosophy in match play, but to worry about a bully in a practice session seems juvenile. During practice I am trying to get what I want from the session... to work on my skills... if the nutter wants to work on being a bully... go for it. I am not going to indulge him by arguing over a linecall... it is yours... I am going to go back to what I am here for... working on my skills.

In a match I am here to win... so yes... the premise of why I am on the court is different and we will definitely discuss what you think you saw.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

JRstriker12 said:
Bingo....

Why tolerate a spoiled brat who's going to ruin the clinic for everyone? It's sort of sad that we call into question, the actions of someone who acted honestly. Why we are supposed to tolerate the actions of someone who behaves badly? So what happens when other person makes a call the "nutter" doesn't like?

If the OP's opponent acted with mutual respect, then this wouldn't have been an issue.

I wonder where the pro was in all of this? If I'm the pro, I wouldn't want to allow the sort of behavoir where one person chases off all the rest of the class because they throw a fit over line calls in PRACTICE - that's just not done.

I think that is the point... he lacks the ability to have a healthy respect for his peers... so why spoil the session for everyone. Let the spoiled brat have his point and let everyone get back to why they came to the class.

Confronting him just takes time... and spoils the session for everyone. It is not like everyone doesn't know he is being a jackass.

Sometimes we need to know why we do something... is it because we don't want to reward bad behaviour or is it because we need to prove everyone that we won't be pushed around. There is a difference... if you know you will not be pushed around you don't need to prove it to anyone.

jc4.0 · Jan 12, 2010

It's your call

If the lob hit outside your baseline, and you clearly saw it out, then make your call and stick with it. This guy couldn't have had a good view of the line, from where he was all the way across the court, anyway. I'm sure that everyone else at the clinic knew you were right, and this guy was wrong to speak to you that way. Forget about it, it was your call and you made it. And don't invite that guy to ever play with you and your friends. If he keeps this attitude up, he'll soon be hitting against a backboard by himself.

Klaus · Jan 12, 2010

Really gameboy?

Really? I have never thought that being a "true gentleman" included caving in when some nut has a fit. I simply continued to play, and after the drill was over I calmly told him how I felt.

Why does society as a whole passively let people like this continue with this behavior? I am with Cindy and ripper on this. I was calm, did not argue, continued to play and then expressed myself to him directly in a calm fashion. He was frustrated that I was "kicking his ass."

I don't feel I need to alter my behaviour, but if he acts like he did, I am not just going to roll-over; I am going to stand my ground, drill, match or not.

As the late Patrik Swayze once said: "No one puts Baby in a corner."

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Klaus said:
Really? I have never thought that being a "true gentleman" included caving in when some nut has a fit. I simply continued to play, and after the drill was over I calmly told him how I felt.

Why does society as a whole passively let people like this continue with this behavior? I am with Cindy and ripper on this. I was calm, did not argue, continued to play and then expressed myself to him directly in a calm fashion. He was frustrated that I was "kicking his ass."

I don't feel I need to alter my behaviour, but if he acts like he did, I am not just going to roll-over; I am going to stand my ground, drill, match or not.

As the late Patrik Swayze once said: "No one puts Baby in a corner."

I appreciate your position on this... but I am not sure we agree, but that is ok... that is what makes us all different. As long as we can all agree to disagree I am good.

Klaus · Jan 12, 2010

Oops!

I was mistaken. While I do respect your opinions always ripper, and think you always make excellent points and contributions, I meant jrStriker. Sorry!

I still respect and will always adore Cindy.

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

Group hug, everybody.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

I think sometimes we could benefit for a live chat room for these discussions... while many times people post at odd hours... there are times when the posting is fast and furious and it feels like communicating with snail mail when we have better technology.

And at times we could probably make our points much more clear.

sureshs · Jan 12, 2010

Only reason to tolerate him is if he lowers the per-head fees for the clinic. Otherwise best not to associate with such people.

gameboy · Jan 12, 2010

Who said be a doormat? If this was a match situation, you should stand your ground and remind him that it is not his call.

But we are talking about a drill, not a match. You need to be selective about when to stand up for yourself because if you are the kind of person who take offense at such a non-event like this, the chances are pretty big that other people in the drill class is not thrilled with your behavior as well.

When you stand up for something, it should be because there is something riding on the line other than just your pride. Drill session is not the time to argue about line calls. It is as stupid as calling outs during warm-ups (and i've seen people do that).

Standing up for yourself is fine, but not when you are doing it 24/7.

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
Who said be a doormat? If this was a match situation, you should stand your ground and remind him that it is not his call.

But we are talking about a drill, not a match. You need to be selective about when to stand up for yourself because if you are the kind of person who take offense at such a non-event like this, the chances are pretty big that other people in the drill class is not thrilled with your behavior as well.

When you stand up for something, it should be because there is something riding on the line other than just your pride. Drill session is not the time to argue about line calls. It is as stupid as calling outs during warm-ups (and i've seen people do that).

Standing up for yourself is fine, but not when you are doing it 24/7.

+1.....................................................

Ripper014 · Jan 12, 2010

Klaus said:
I was mistaken. While I do respect your opinions always ripper, and think you always make excellent points and contributions, I meant jrStriker. Sorry!

I still respect and will always adore Cindy.

Thanks I appreciate the comment... of late I have questioned how much I have wanted to contribute to the forum. I have become a lot more selective and have pretty much avoided posting in some threads all together. Better part of valor and all that... things can get pretty heated... and some of us need people to agree with our viewpoints.

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
It is as stupid as calling outs during warm-ups (and i've seen people do that).

Yeah, what is up with that?

In my match today, we were warming up serves. My opponent served a couple of balls to me, which I pocketed. No issue, or so I thought. After a serve, she yelled something at me. "Huh?" I said. She repeated herself: "Was that serve in or out?" "In, I think." After that, she gave me a look after each of her warm-up serves, waiting for my call. I wasn't making a call on account of how it was warm-up. Also, I don't watch the lines during warm-up -- I watch other things, especially the ball so I can grab it on the first try and not waste time.

Please tell me it isn't normal or necessary to make line calls on warm-up serves. Please? I think these ladies play at a country club. Is it a country club thing?

The other quirky thing she did during the match was to make a huge throbbing big deal out of caught tosses. When she caught one of her errant tosses, she shouted, "BAD TOSS!" Oh, hey. Thanks for the heads up.

I guess every match needs some comic relief.

LeeD · Jan 12, 2010

Watch pros warm up serves.
They don't even look up near the server, much less look at the ball.
Then the last couple 3, they look up and watch it fly by.
No calls, no returns, no catch. Nonchalant.

cak · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
Please? I think these ladies play at a country club. Is it a country club thing?

My home club is a country club. Nope, not a country club thing.

Cindysphinx · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
Standing up for yourself is fine, but not when you are doing it 24/7.

This could be a gender thing. It really could be.

The world is full of women who don't stand up for themselves. On anything, ever. I think many people on our planet just naturally assume that a woman won't confront, won't object, won't stand up for herself. But I do find myself in situations where people kind of jerk me around and are a bit surprised when I say something. I try to be nice, civil, reasonable and stone-cold correct and I tend to get good results.

I will give you a recent example.

I was circling downtown at noon, looking for a metered parallel spot, hoping to meet a friend for lunch in a few minutes. Lucky me, I see a guy walking to his car and I pull up behind him and wait for him to leave the space. He pulls out, I pull forward to back in. Sure enough, some guy in a truck pulls a George Costanza on me. He went into the spot front first, which prevented me from backing in.

I sat there in my car for a moment. Surely he saw me with my signal on and back-up lights on. It's just a parking spot during the noon rush; I could circle some more and eventually I would find a spot or could go to a pay lot, right? It's not "necessary" to have a confrontation over a parking spot, is it? It wasn't dark, it wasn't raining, the weather was fine. But it is also not right for someone to steal a person's parking spot either, is it?

I backed up until I was next to George Costanza's car and rolled down my passenger side window. I waited a few moments as he fiddled with something in his lap. He made eye contact and rolled down his window.

I said, "Excuse me, but I was backing into that spot. Didn't you see me?"

He said, "No, I didn't."

I said, "Yes, I was waiting with my back-up lights and signal on. In fact, I had to follow a guy to this spot and wiat for him to leave it. Would you mind leaving the spot so I can park?"

He glanced at his watch and said, "Oh, I'm sorry. Um, I have a meeting."

I said, "I have a meeting also."

He looked a bit sheepish and said, "All right."

And he left the parking space.

I bet he won't do that again. And I felt good about not being someone's doormat yet again and for sticking up for myself in a reasonable, civil manner.

Cindy -- who has finally learned to say the words, "Excuse me, I believe I was next" when someone cuts in line

JavierLW · Jan 12, 2010

Ripper014 said:
Obviously I agree with your point of view... but I would never drag someone else into it. I would just resolve it quickly by giving him the point... and moving forward. Like you said I could have been wrong... and it is just a drill. Even if it wasn't out, a line call is not going to change the world nor my life.

Id hate to say it but I agree with Cindy here.

If you (in the OP's) situation made the call that it was out, drill or no drill, you are not obliged to change your call.

If you do change your call not only are you being weak, you are just actually further charging these kinds of people up that you do not have the judgement to make your own calls.

Should you stand there and argue about it though, no you should not. But you dont have too.

Just make your call, when they ask, confirm it, and just move on to get ready for whatever it is you're supposed to be doing next. If they want to stand there and make some sort of tantrum or other form of entertainment let them do it on their own....

And typically we pay money for these types of drills and if some participant is making it not fun then it's not worth doing. Seeing how you seem to love to avoid conflict Im sure you could understand that.

The idea that we should all be weak and cave everytime someone calls us out that we are wrong just to make peace is silly. No, we dont have to make a big scene and go toe to toe with the guy on it, but there is nothing wrong with having enough respect for yourself to stand by what you saw.

I also wonder though where the pro was in all of this. In all of my competitive drills, whenever there was a disagreement on calls the pro just quickly corrected it. They seem to do that especially if they notice that it will cause a conflict.

(sort of like how when Im playing doubles and my partner is going to start getting upset about a call sometimes I confirm our opponents calls to him so he doesnt go ballistic)

JavierLW · Jan 12, 2010

gameboy said:
Who said be a doormat? If this was a match situation, you should stand your ground and remind him that it is not his call.

But we are talking about a drill, not a match. You need to be selective about when to stand up for yourself because if you are the kind of person who take offense at such a non-event like this, the chances are pretty big that other people in the drill class is not thrilled with your behavior as well.

When you stand up for something, it should be because there is something riding on the line other than just your pride. Drill session is not the time to argue about line calls. It is as stupid as calling outs during warm-ups (and i've seen people do that).

Standing up for yourself is fine, but not when you are doing it 24/7.

That statement really doesnt mean any sense, so you dont have enough respect for yourself 24/7 to stick to what you saw and believe in?

The OP is calling the ball out, doesnt matter what the situation is. Other player is calling him a liar if he wont accept his call.

Have enough respect for yourself to stand by what you say. If you were mistaken and you were unsure, then go ahead and give it to the other guy. But if you were sure then there is no reason on earth that you'd have to agree to lie about your own call.

You dont need to go toe to toe with the guy on it though. Just reaffirm your call and if they want to have a little tantrum let them, that's their problem not yours.

(in other words remain calm, once you've had your say go immediately to get ready for wherever you are supposed to be and move on, if he wont then the pro should say something.....)

Maybe you think it's okay to lie about your own call but most people wouldnt, that makes you look really weak and it makes people question your judgment even more. (if you are that unsure, maybe you are making other bad calls.....) Especially whiny little baby's like this guy who are just looking for anything to complain about.

Mister Goulash · Jan 12, 2010

Your instructor should step in and handle the situation (or pass it onto the director). No need for you to get involved with any physco.

Wakenslam · Jan 12, 2010

Klaus said:
O the humanity! As I have reported before, I attend a very competitive clinic. Last night, playing Australian doubles (I was the single), I went for a lob, saw it hit just past the baseline and let it go. I called it out, and one of my opponents went beserk, then stomped off the court. I was ahead 8-3 (we play till 11) The remaining player and I continued, as the pro fed us balls, and afterward, I approached the player who stomped off.

I told him it was very unsportsman-like to pout and stomp off, and the ball was out. He said that all my calls were bad, and that's the only reason I had won all the singles matches I had played recently (40-5), none of which he had ever seen. This was the first time this player had ever questioned any of my line calls in the past year.

I just packed up my stuff and left, and told him I wouldn't be back, to which he said "good."

Good lord--where do these people come from? Mind you, I have encouraged this guy for months, given him some minor tips, as he is quite inexperienced and plays tennis like urban basketball, running past the ball, slamming it out of the court, slamming stuff into the net after running and leaping, and talking trash to people all the time, shouting at them as they are about to hit the ball.

WTF? I feel bad, because other than this idiot, the clinic has been very good. How do you handle these poor sports?

Are you 100% POSITIVE the ball was out? If so then you should feel just fine about calling it out. Walking off the court doesn't really enforce your position.

On another note --- Competitive Austrailian hhahahhehehehehahahahahaaaa that's an oxymoron

Steady Eddy · Jan 12, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
I was circling downtown at noon, looking for a metered parallel spot, hoping to meet a friend for lunch in a few minutes. Lucky me, I see a guy walking to his car and I pull up behind him and wait for him to leave the space. He pulls out, I pull forward to back in. Sure enough, some guy in a truck pulls a George Costanza on me. He went into the spot front first, which prevented me from backing in.

Okay, I apologize for being way off topic, but I went to do some Xmas shopping at Best Buy. A car has its backup lights on, and I wait for the spot. A car starts to wait on the other side of the driver for the same spot! I'm wondering, "Doesn't he see that I've been waiting for this spot before him?" The driver backs up toward the other driver, so I'm able to pull into the spot anyway. As I'm walking to Best Buy the driver who didn't get the spot glares at me. Next time he circles, he glares at me again, so I gesture to him. He stops and I explain that I was waiting for the spot before him and that I didn't steal his spot. He's with his girlfriend and replies, "Good, 'cause that would be pretty ****ed up." Kind of implying that I was the one out of line. Then he found a spot and he and his girlfriend went in the direction of the movie theaters, he wasn't even a Best Buy customer!

Back to the subject. No you don't call the opponents serves in or out during warm up. Can't she tell at all? Also, you don't really care that much, you just want to warm up your arm.

athiker · Jan 12, 2010

I wouldn't have changed my call if I was sure but wouldn't have approached him and said anything to him either. If he was in such a mental state that he stormed off he's doesn't want to hear anything I would have to say anyway. Double that if I knew his history and he was a "nutter" as described.

I have USTA league drilled into me...my side of the net, my call, move on. Now I have reversed myself before and apologized profusely even while awarding them the point. A heavy topspin ball for example that dips in hard that looked like it was for sure going to hit out...it can take a second to register that it really did dive in.

Yes, its a clinic, and in/out makes no real difference in my life, and its beyond me how anyone would explode like that, but I saw it go out, I call it out. I don't know if I care about teaching him a lesson he will probably never learn, or standing up for myself, or whatever...its not that big a life changing thing for me...and my demeanor would reflect that...its a ball that I saw land out and that's my call. They don't want to play a game that sometimes depends on another person's judgment they can go find something else to play...like solitaire.

raiden031 · Jan 13, 2010

There are two sides to every story. Maybe Klaus makes bad calls and doesn't do it on purpose. It seems a little odd that someone would get so angry over a call that isn't quite obviously the wrong one (as in its hard to clearly see a ball that lands just long of the baseline from the opposing side).

dlk · Jan 13, 2010

Ripper014 said:
Do you just enjoy confrontation..? Does it really matter if the ball was in or out? This is a drill class... it is all about hitting balls and learning something. You can have every point if it matters to you... I am just there to get something out of the class. If it feeds into his ego, all the power to him... I am content to work on my skills and take what I can from the class.

Life is way to short.

Once again, I totally agree with this philosophy. Ripper's posts are always on target.

Cindysphinx · Jan 13, 2010

raiden031 said:
There are two sides to every story. Maybe Klaus makes bad calls and doesn't do it on purpose. It seems a little odd that someone would get so angry over a call that isn't quite obviously the wrong one (as in its hard to clearly see a ball that lands just long of the baseline from the opposing side).

If you'll recall Klaus' earlier series of posts about this guy, it seems pretty clear that the other guy is the problem.

Klaus · Jan 13, 2010

This was not a bad call. I saw space between the ball and the line, and called it out. By the time I recovered from runniing to set up, and calling it out, my opponent had already exclaimed and stomped off the court. Neither the pro nor I had a chance to do anything. This nut is extremely competitive as I have explained repeatedly. We just continued playing. In the past, he looked to me for minor tips and assistance, and I had corrected some of his behavior that was disruptive, which he listened to. I do not like conforntation, but this guy needs guidance, and believe me, I have not been the only one to "guide" him. He is extremely immature at 28 or 29 or so, and also bet me $1,000.00 that he could beat me; which he later withdrew. Thanks for all of the comments, even the ones that make me less than the gentleman I thought I was.

sureshs · Jan 13, 2010

Cindysphinx said:
Yeah, what is up with that?

In my match today, we were warming up serves. My opponent served a couple of balls to me, which I pocketed. No issue, or so I thought. After a serve, she yelled something at me. "Huh?" I said. She repeated herself: "Was that serve in or out?" "In, I think." After that, she gave me a look after each of her warm-up serves, waiting for my call. I wasn't making a call on account of how it was warm-up. Also, I don't watch the lines during warm-up -- I watch other things, especially the ball so I can grab it on the first try and not waste time.

Please tell me it isn't normal or necessary to make line calls on warm-up serves. Please? I think these ladies play at a country club. Is it a country club thing?

The other quirky thing she did during the match was to make a huge throbbing big deal out of caught tosses. When she caught one of her errant tosses, she shouted, "BAD TOSS!" Oh, hey. Thanks for the heads up.

I guess every match needs some comic relief.

I don't know about warmups, but when I am rallying with somebody, I will sometimes tell them not to hit my out balls. Same when practising serves. I need to know how I am doing.

skiracer55 · Jan 13, 2010

Bingo...

Mister Goulash said:
Your instructor should step in and handle the situation (or pass it onto the director). No need for you to get involved with any physco.

...it's not up to you to deal with the situation, it's the people running the show. All situations like this generally have a "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason", so it were my clinic, I'd have told this yo-yo..."That's it...you are no longer a part of this clinic, expect a refund in the mail."

According to your original post, this clown stomped off the court...if I were in your shoes, I'd have said "Problem solved...now let's have some fun on the tennis court." You went the extra mile and tried to discuss the situation with Attila the Hun after the clinic...which I probably wouldn't have done. He came out in your face again, which was predictable. You were fair and reasonable, he's a loose cannon.

At that point, I would have said "Suit yourself...let's agree to disagree and the next time around, you get to make all the calls, because I have a feeling you'll be the only one on the court." But you're a much nicer guy than I am, because I'm sure he'd have come back with something like "Oh yeah? Well, not only that, but your mother is fat and ugly, too."

To which I would have said "No, she's not, she's dead, and you're about to be. Let's take this one out in the parking lot..."

You gave the guy every chance to behave decently, and he didn't, and he isn't ever gonna either, IMHO. You're a good person, he's a bad person, but that doesn't mean it rubs off on you. As I and some other posters have noted, whoever's running the show should be taking care of the situation, not you. Personally, I'd go find another clinic just based on the fact that whoever is running the show needs a lesson in how to deal with disruptive kindergartners who Don't Play Well With Others. If you do elect to go back to this clinic and Mr. Big Stuff shows up again, I'd just make it real clear that you ain't gonna inhabit the same court with him. Life's too short to let idiots like this ruin your bliss, just put it behind you and drive on...

Ripper014 · Jan 13, 2010

dlk said:
Once again, I totally agree with this philosophy. Ripper's posts are always on target.

dlk is obviously a very, very, verrrrrrrrrrrrry smart highly educated person.... :lol:

But even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut... words of wisdom can only be seen by people with similar viewpoints, to others the same wisdom would be accepted as the most stupid thing they ever heard. Sometimes I seem intelligent other times... I am seen as an idiot. I guess in truth I fall somewhere in the middle.

Only the most arrogant... (Dr Phil, Oprah) think they know everything.

dlk · Jan 13, 2010

Ripper014 said:
dlk is obviously a very, very, verrrrrrrrrrrrry smart highly educated person.... :lol:

But even a blind squirrel finds the occasional nut... words of wisdom can only be seen by people with similar viewpoints, to others the same wisdom would be accepted as the most stupid thing they ever heard. Sometimes I seem intelligent other times... I am seen as an idiot. I guess in truth I fall somewhere in the middle.

Only the most arrogant... (Dr Phil, Oprah) think they know everything.

Your opinions/analysis are steeped in solid logic that is hard to argue with; I've noticed everytime you post, I'm like "that's exactly what I'm thinking." I of course, could never express so succintly.

Clinic woes, again

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