Ashaway Liberty 720' reel for $22

Is this the lowest-priced nylon monofilament ("synthetic gut") available from TW?

I looked at an old topic that said Gosen's $30 reel was the cheapest, but that's $8 more than this string, and it's stiffer.

Gosen's ProForm Tuff 15L 1.37mm is $22.95 for 660'. There doesn't seem to be a 16 gauge version. Liberty comes in 16 (1.30mm) and 15L.

Here are the numbers for Liberty, in comparison with Prince Synthetic Gut:

string name, swing speed, gauge, stiffness, total tension loss

40 lbs reference
Liberty 16, Slow, 1.33, 143.4, 10.4
Syn Gut Original 16, Slow, 1.3, 159.4, 10.1
Liberty 16 Low, Medium, 1.33, 142.3, 10.4
Syn Gut Original 16, Medium, 1.3, 158.3, 10.1
Liberty 16, Fast, 1.33, 138.9, 10.8
Syn Gut Original 16, Fast, 1.3, 157.2, 10.6

results: Liberty is softer. Identical tension retention.

51 lbs reference
Liberty 16, Slow, 1.33, 170.9, 11.9
Syn Gut Original 16, Slow, 1.3, 193.7, 9.9
Liberty 16 Medium, 1.33, 169.7, 12.1
Syn Gut Original 16, Medium, 1.3, 189.7, 10.1
Liberty 16, Fast, 1.33, 167.4, 12.6
Syn Gut Original 16, Fast, 1.3, 191.5, 10.6

results: Liberty is softer, slightly worse tension retention.

62 lbs reference
Liberty 16, Slow, 1.33, 176.6, 14.1
Syn Gut Original 16, Slow, 1.3, 214.9, 10.6
Liberty 16, Medium, 1.33, 185.7, 14.3
Syn Gut Original 16, Medium, 1.3, 214.3, 11.2
Liberty 16, Fast, 1.33, 179.5, 15.0
Liberty 16, Fast, 1.33, 203.5, 7.5 pre-stretched
Syn Gut Original 16, Fast, 1.3, 214.3, 11.5
Syn Gut Original 16, Fast, 1.3, 218.3, 5.1 pre-stretched

results: Liberty is softer, worse tension retention. However, pre-stretching narrows the divide to around 2 lbs, which isn't much. Also, keep in mind that the average poly string loses twice as much tension.

I think you're forgetting about Forten Nylon...

Doubles said:

I think you're forgetting about Forten Nylon...

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Thats $16.95 this is cheapest.

Centered said:

Identical tension retention.

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Identical tension retention over what period of time?

Parker512 said:

Thats $16.95 this is cheapest.

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Ashway comes out to about $.32/foot. forten comes out to about $.38 per foot.
so that makes ashway cheaper
so if you are going for per unit then Ashway is, but if you are not. then i guess forten is.

Doubles said:

I think you're forgetting about Forten Nylon...

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I think you're forgetting about Liberty being 720 ft. amd Forten being 660 ft.....

[d]ragon;4995731 said:

I think you're forgetting about Liberty being 720 ft. amd Forten being 660 ft.....

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Yeah, I completely missed that when I first read through it...

Is it useful for anything other than learning how to string a racquet is the question though. I wouldn't trust string that was 23 bucks for a 720 reel

Tournament nylon is crap.

Good for learning how to string. Exactly. And not much else. I bought a reel of this years ago for just that use, but it's probably the worst string I've ever used. Who knows how many feet were still on the reel when I threw it away.

The lack of feel/response from the string is stunning. It killed any hybrid set-up I tried with it, as well. Great for learning that there's much more to selecting string than looking at specs, which has its uses, but can only take you so far.

Certainly buy a set or two first before sinking 20 bucks into a whole reel.

SliceForehand said:

Tournament nylon is crap.

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"Synthetic gut" is the same thing. I'm not a big fan of monofilament nylon, because I like softer strings. However, this string is significantly softer than polys.

Jim1564 said:

The lack of feel/response from the string is stunning.

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Feel/response translates to stiffness. As the numbers show, it's not as stiff as many other monofilament nylon "synthetic gut" strings. If you want a stiffer string you can find one. Others, though, do like softer strings.

You could have tried stringing it at a higher tension.

Liberty is my favorite syn gut. It's nice and soft which is great if you like soft strings. I prefer it to many of the uch more expensive multis I've tried. I currently have two reels of it which I use for a lot of my customers in full beds and hybrids. Haven't had a single complaint about it and several people have commented how they like it better than what they used before.

GameSetMatch said:

Identical tension retention over what period of time?

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Total tension loss during TW's tests:

"Total tension lost during the test, including the minute wait after tensioning, the 20 high speed hits to stabilize tensions, and the actual test impacts."

http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/reporter.php

Centered, I mean this with the greatest respect... You trust in numbers quite a bit. I like that you like to back up your points with solid data, but I think you sometimes don't factor in the human aspect of the numbers. Numbers are man's method of trying to make sense out of something that has no numerical value. Again, I say this with the greatest respect for you, but you may want to, for future reference, remember that numbers don't mean everything.

Just a thought.

Everything in objective reality can be measured. That's the foundation of Science. Religion's business is to discuss things that can't be measured/observed/perceived. I think it's more useful to treat tennis stringing as scientific rather than religious.

GameSetMatch said:

I don't play tennis for only 2 minutes after stringing and I also tend to hit more than 20 balls in that time. Same with most people that I know.

What's the tension loss about 1 week with 10 hours of play, and 2 weeks with around 20 hours of play?

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A--M--E--N

GameSetMatch said:

I don't play tennis for only 2 minutes after stringing and I also tend to hit more than 20 balls in that time. Same with most people that I know.

What's the tension loss about 1 week with 10 hours of play, and 2 weeks with around 20 hours of play?

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If you or anyone else has a problem with the Tennis Warehouse testing data, contact Tennis Warehouse.

KickservKyle said:

A--M--E--N

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A perfectly ironic comment.

Kevo said:

Liberty is my favorite syn gut. It's nice and soft which is great if you like soft strings. I prefer it to many of the uch more expensive multis I've tried. I currently have two reels of it which I use for a lot of my customers in full beds and hybrids. Haven't had a single complaint about it and several people have commented how they like it better than what they used before.

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Good to know.

Centered said:

A perfectly ironic comment.

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I truly appreciate that you caught that

After two weeks, cut the string out if you lose tension so quickly. And Liberty does seem to lose tension progressively, moves a lot, and gets springy IMHO. The price is right, its easy to string, and it is soft.

Centered said:

Everything in objective reality can be measured. That's the foundation of Science. Religion's business is to discuss things that can't be measured/observed/perceived. I think it's more useful to treat tennis stringing as scientific rather than religious.

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Maybe but you have to observe the right situation with the right processes. Right now, there is no way to measure "feel" in a string. Two strings with identical numbers, or very close to it, aren't necessarily going to feel the same. So the question is, does the "scientific" data gathered adequately decribe the situation well enough that it's of any meaningful importance? Does TW's data do this? Does anybody's? Are the right questions even being asked to point observations in the right directions?

I'll give a few quick examples to back up mtommer:

The RSI rates Babolat Pro Hurricane 18 (1.21) is rated as a 187 in stiffness. Head Sonic Pro 1.23 is rated as a 199. If you've played with both of them, you would think that the stiffness ratings were reversed, that the Sonic Pro feels softer. This is not supported by the data.

Similarly, Prince/Ekelton Lightening XX is rated a 187 in stiffness, the same as PH. However, Lightening feels a lot softer than does PH.

Moving away from strings and onto rackets, the Volkl V1 MP is rated a 69 in stiffness. The Wilson k 6.1 95 is also rated 69. People that have played with both sticks can attest that the Volkl plays significantly more flexy than its 69 rating.

Thus, while I believe that the numbers are a GREAT place to begin, they're only guidelines.

meowmix said:

I'll give a few quick examples to back up mtommer:

The RSI rates Babolat Pro Hurricane 18 (1.21) is rated as a 187 in stiffness. Head Sonic Pro 1.23 is rated as a 199. If you've played with both of them, you would think that the stiffness ratings were reversed, that the Sonic Pro feels softer. This is not supported by the data.

Similarly, Prince/Ekelton Lightening XX is rated a 187 in stiffness, the same as PH. However, Lightening feels a lot softer than does PH.

Moving away from strings and onto rackets, the Volkl V1 MP is rated a 69 in stiffness. The Wilson k 6.1 95 is also rated 69. People that have played with both sticks can attest that the Volkl plays significantly more flexy than its 69 rating.

Thus, while I believe that the numbers are a GREAT place to begin, they're only guidelines.

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The RSI data only covers high tension and high swing speeds. You can get more detail from Tennis Warehouse's numbers. Swing speed makes a difference, as does reference tension plus total tension loss.

It's possible that your first example is related to tension loss. A stiffer string that loses more tension may feel softer, especially when there is such a small margin between the two strings being compared.

If you think there are failings in the TW numbers, please specifically explain what they are.