Federer needs some depth

One thing I've noticed in the recent years with Federer declining is the depth of his strokes lessening every year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but even in his good matches this year, he's always lacked the depth of shot he used to have. He's been loosing it more and more since 2008. I think its one of the things he can actually do something about despite age, in my opinion.

What do you guys think? Is it possible for him to adjust his game to todays field of players and hit with more depth, or has he gotten too slow or weak?

Fed fan here btw....

Mmmmm. He hits, on average, probably deeper than anyone else in the top ten so not sure what you're on about.

It's one of his enduring strengths and a great lesson in how to play good tennis: if you can't do much with a ball at least hit it deep.

I have said this in a few posts recently: IMPO, Fed's lost pace & depth on the backhand towards the end of matches. If you watch the 5th set of the USO semi, there were a lot of BHs that landed around the service line, and the Djoker really tee'd off on those.
On the FH wing, I disagree with you, the depth is still there.

Of course, I am not claiming that this is based on extensive analysis of many matches (don't have that kind of time).

sportsfan1 said:

I have said this in a few posts recently: IMPO, Fed's lost pace & depth on the backhand towards the end of matches.

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Fair call. He does have a tendency for this for sure on his backhand on slower, higher-bouncing courts. Overall though he still hits pretty deep compared to his peers.

Bobby Jr said:

Mmmmm. He hits, on average, probably deeper than anyone else in the top ten so not sure what you're on about.

It's one of his enduring strengths and a great lesson in how to play good tennis: if you can't do much with a ball at least hit it deep.

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I actually think Djokovic hits with the most depth now. I mean, I'm not saying Federer doesn't get good depth, look what he did to Nadal in the WTF, to Berdych in Paris, to Djokovic in the FO. On average though, when he's facing a top player and not playing his A-game, he doesn't get the depth he had back then. Look at when he plays Tsonga for example, it has to do with Tsonga's shots, but even then, especially off the backhand, they land so short and are easy pickings for top players

Even off the forehand he has been loosing some depth off the shot, its only when he's in form does he get the depth that can push players back. I think he'll be able to adjust though, this year has taught him a lot about himself and what he needs to do. I really think Federer will be able to deliver in 2012, he knows what to expect, he knows what he has to do to defeat Djokovic as well. Nadal I believe can make a resurgence if he puts his mind to it. It's going to be a very intense season, can't wait for it. DDDDDDD

So, that put aside, do you think he can adjust to it?

AhmedD said:

...when he's facing a top player and not playing his A-game, he doesn't get the depth he had back then...

...its only when he's in form does he get the depth that can push players back....

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So what you're saying is: when Federer isn't playing his best his tennis isn't as good as when he is.

Ya don't say! :idea:

Bobby Jr said:

So what you're saying is: when Federer isn't playing his best his tennis isn't as good as when he is.

Ya don't say! :idea:

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I could have phrased that one better, what I meant to say was, in the 2004-2007 period, even if Federer wasn't playing his best, he was still getting really good depth.

To keep it simple:

Federer C-game 2004-2007 = good depth, still manages to push player, can hold his own
Federer C-game 2010-2011 = bad depth, can't be offensive against big players, gets pushed around

Obviously his movement plays a big factor here, the question I'm asking is can he get back to hitting with depth more consistently, can he adjust to todays top dogs?

AhmedD said:

One thing I've noticed in the recent years with Federer declining is the depth of his strokes lessening every year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but even in his good matches this year, he's always lacked the depth of shot he used to have. He's been loosing it more and more since 2008. I think its one of the things he can actually do something about despite age, in my opinion.

What do you guys think? Is it possible for him to adjust his game to todays field of players and hit with more depth, or has he gotten too slow or weak?

Fed fan here btw....

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Movement is worse, therefore causes you to be out of position, thus results in less depth on shots. To compensate, one has to play a much more aggressive game, which results in tons of errors if you are off. It happens to every top player.

AhmedD said:

One thing I've noticed in the recent years with Federer declining is the depth of his strokes lessening every year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but even in his good matches this year, he's always lacked the depth of shot he used to have. He's been loosing it more and more since 2008. I think its one of the things he can actually do something about despite age, in my opinion.

What do you guys think? Is it possible for him to adjust his game to todays field of players and hit with more depth, or has he gotten too slow or weak?

Fed fan here btw....

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hmm, I actually feel the complete opposite to be true. In '05 Fed was more unpredictable - the depth variety got the better of his opponents. Oddly enough, I don't believe this '05 variety was entirely intended. As time progressed, Federer of '11 hits a much more predictable yet more consistently deep ball which guys like Djokovic and Tsonga LOVE.

I'm a Fed fan too, but he always dink the ball short to mess with the opponent. But it never worked against the better Nadal, because he would just step in and crush the winner.

Lawn Tennis said:

hmm, I actually feel the complete opposite to be true. In '05 Fed was more unpredictable - the depth variety got the better of his opponents. Oddly enough, I don't believe this '05 variety was entirely intended. As time progressed, Federer of '11 hits a much more predictable yet more consistently deep ball which guys like Djokovic and Tsonga LOVE.

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Djokovic loves deep balls, especially of the backhand since he can the pace and just redirect it. On the forehand he likes it sometimes, if he reads it right, he'll do the open stance cross court forehand and just rip it for a winner like he'd done so often this year. Otherwise, if the ball is heavy and has enough pace, Djokovic's forehand can be broken down, Federer being one of the players that can do that. Tsonga, I don't think he likes depth if the ball stays with low with pace, however, Federer's shots nowadays lack the pace and end up in Tsonga's hitting zone. Tsonga especially doesn't like depth on the backhand, it's his weaker side, and he has a tendency to get pushed around, so often you'll see him just trying to rip it, and if he's on that day, it an unpredictable shot that works (Montreal this year against Fed).

I don't think its that consistently deep to be honest, the depth of his shots however are too predictable now, I'll agree with that. His variety with depth was effective, but back then he has the pace and heaviness to back it, he could also play around with the trajectory and angles and really move the opponent, right now though he's lost that. Again, his movement is what really allowed him to what he did in his prime. Guess he just can't do it as well now :/

When he starts using the 100 sq in racket @zapvor's Wilson rep told him about, the depth will reappear...

West Coast Ace said:

When he starts using the 100 sq in racket @zapvor's Wilson rep told him about, the depth will reappear...

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Post of the year. :lol::lol::lol:

I do not agree. Actually in his prime he often hit all out in a way where the spin took the ball down closer to the service- than the back line. But the sheer power and spin was often enough. My 2 c.

AhmedD said:

One thing I've noticed in the recent years with Federer declining is the depth of his strokes lessening every year.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but even in his good matches this year, he's always lacked the depth of shot he used to have. He's been loosing it more and more since 2008. I think its one of the things he can actually do something about despite age, in my opinion.

What do you guys think? Is it possible for him to adjust his game to todays field of players and hit with more depth, or has he gotten too slow or weak?

Fed fan here btw....

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He doesn't get the opportunity like he used to, you can thank the competition for that. Maybe if Roddick and if Hewitt make their huge comeback he can have his way again?

Painful viewing of poor depth on Federer's ground strokes is probably, like a poster above says, USO semi 5th set last couple of games. 1:47 specifically is one of many examples.

But Idk, 5 set match, double faulting away chance to serve for match, two match points, 30 years old, Mirka eating cake etc...all those thoughts must playing with Federer's mind to result in his lack of depth towards the end of these long matches.

It's not like he hasn't got the capabilities to hit with pace. But what I believe plays with Federer's mind much more when you get to tight moments is his 1st serve percentage, it affects him much more than maybe Djokovic.

Federer has never had good depth on his backhand ever.

Agree with OP.

Source: watched a lot of his tennis.

Completely agree with the OP he definitely needs more depth to make it more difficult for his opponents. Last year his shots were several feet inside the baseline when it should be mere inches. This is why he uses such loose strong around 46-47lbs maybe he should go even lower 44-45lbs to get more power and depth.

Good post...and thought.

jackson vile said:

He doesn't get the opportunity like he used to, you can thank the competition for that. Maybe if Roddick and if Hewitt make their huge comeback he can have his way again?

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This thread is in continuation to the thread that I created,"Fed's apparent lack of talent visible here"..Slowly but surely people here are picking his inherent weakness.

jackson vile said:

He doesn't get the opportunity like he used to, you can thank the competition for that.

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Interesting, so you're implying that it's all due to competition? Meaning Fed hasn't declined one iota and is playing as good as ever?

Good to know for future reference.