JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Funny how you changed your stance on this stick. You used to say nobody under 4.5 should even attempt to play with it
Boris Becker (BB) London Club
- Thread starter TimothyO
- Start date
Funny how you changed your stance on this stick. You used to say nobody under 4.5 should even attempt to play with it
msalamon
Rookie
Pallets/grips/ect.
Hello fellow BB Londoners!
I have 2 Londons-but holding each in succession you would think they were 2 different rackets. The grips feel so different. They are both listed as 4 3/8, however, one has head finest calfskin grip and the other has BB synthetic grip. the one with the head grip feels MUCH bigger and also ha a square feeling to it. The one with the synthetic grip feel MUCH smaller and has a round feel.
Questions:
1- how can I determine if the pallets are the same
2- how can I get these rackets to match up ( I like the head /square feeling grip best)
Thanks in advance
Hello fellow BB Londoners!
I have 2 Londons-but holding each in succession you would think they were 2 different rackets. The grips feel so different. They are both listed as 4 3/8, however, one has head finest calfskin grip and the other has BB synthetic grip. the one with the head grip feels MUCH bigger and also ha a square feeling to it. The one with the synthetic grip feel MUCH smaller and has a round feel.
Questions:
1- how can I determine if the pallets are the same
2- how can I get these rackets to match up ( I like the head /square feeling grip best)
Thanks in advance
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
pretty easy...
first, measure the circumference of both grips with a soft measuring tape like the tailors use. Measure them both at the same point...I usually go 2" up from the butt end. Also, if you remove the grips, there should be a big number on the pallet telling you the size....3 for 3/8, 4 for 1/2 etc.
if you prefer the leather, why not just replace the other syn grip with another leather one? Make them both feel the same. The syn feels more round because the grip is thicker and doesn't lay on the bevels as tightly as the thinner leather grip does. Also make sure both pallets are the same stock Becker pallets. Someone could have replaced it with something else.
msalamon
Rookie
thanks JackB1
so in order to get a good measurement, I will need to remove the grips correct?
If I do remove the grips, are they hard to put back on? I have never re-gripped a racket.
How do I remove the grips saftely?
Finally, do you have a recomendation for a leather grip--I am unable to find another head finest calfskin anywhere
so in order to get a good measurement, I will need to remove the grips correct?
If I do remove the grips, are they hard to put back on? I have never re-gripped a racket.
How do I remove the grips saftely?
Finally, do you have a recomendation for a leather grip--I am unable to find another head finest calfskin anywhere
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Undo the tape at the top of your grip and unwind it, paying attention to the amount of overlap or lack thereof as you go, if you intend on using the same grip again. When you put it back on, start at the bottom, so pay special attention to how it was started originally before ripping it off.
I think you'd be wasting your time measuring your pallets. Your differences are in the types of replacement grips being used. Choose one replacement grip of your choice and put it on both racquets. Problem solved . . . unless you can't find your preferred leather.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Did you buy these new or secondhand? If you bought them from another user, then you're correct: the pallets could have been changed out, as they are interchangeable. And you're also right that the thicker synthetic should not create the sense of a smaller grip.
Okay, you'll have to take both grips off and inspect. There should be an identifier as to the size somewhere on the pallet itself and maybe on the buttcap or somewhere on the frame, like in the throat area? Check there as well.
Edit: Btw, how do you like that string combo in your London. I've hit a full bed of Mantis, but it was just too soft in the London. I currently hit either V-Pro or CyberBlue mains and Dunlop Comfort crosses, but I also have some Gripper and NRG2 to try as well. I've heard good things about the Weiss Cannon B5E; how comfortable is it? I had my BB 11 strung with Scorpion in the mains, and I thought that string was board stiff.
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Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
That would make sense. Therefore, the only way you'll know is to inspect them. And read my edit to my last post; I have a string question there for you. Thanks.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Pneumy is right....just unwrap the grips and inspect the pallets. Look for a number on them. Also check the shape of them also. The could be stock becker, volkl attiva or volkl standard. They all fit. But don't worry, you can get a new pallet from doittennis and just change of out yourself. Its easy.
msalamon
Rookie
Thanks guys!
As usual, lots of great info from the fine folks at tt! Much appreciated-I will check this out this evening while enjoying a fine home brewed fullers ESB imitation.
to answer your question about the strings--I really like the B5E--it is very soft and comfortable, but also provides a lot of bite/spin. I like the technifiber NrG2 and X-one Biphase--but could not afford a whole reel--so I went with the Mantis comfort since its cheaper!
As usual, lots of great info from the fine folks at tt! Much appreciated-I will check this out this evening while enjoying a fine home brewed fullers ESB imitation.
to answer your question about the strings--I really like the B5E--it is very soft and comfortable, but also provides a lot of bite/spin. I like the technifiber NrG2 and X-one Biphase--but could not afford a whole reel--so I went with the Mantis comfort since its cheaper!
msalamon
Rookie
I checked with the original owner of the head leather gripped racket, and he said that he did not change the pallets-
"I'm pretty sure it was stock. Check in with the Volkl devotees on the boards... They may have some insight with pallets, pallet sizes and shapes, pallet code numbers, etc. I bet the BB I had that you now have may have been a first run using "Volkl" pallets, then later runs incorporated "BB" pallets."
Any thoughts?....
"I'm pretty sure it was stock. Check in with the Volkl devotees on the boards... They may have some insight with pallets, pallet sizes and shapes, pallet code numbers, etc. I bet the BB I had that you now have may have been a first run using "Volkl" pallets, then later runs incorporated "BB" pallets."
Any thoughts?....
djNEiGht
Legend
no it isn't Lendl's. it is the turbo pro. about 350g 10pts hl.
msalamon
Rookie
Unfortunately it may be a little more involved-as I'm quite certain that the pallets are different--I will need to change out the pallets on the synthetic grip racket. It is unlikely that the difference in feel is caused by the grips alone.
My guess is that the racket with the syth grip has different pallets--and may have even been sanded down as it is completely round.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Sounds like you have an anomalous situation here. You're almost forced, at this point, to take the grip off of your preferred racquet just to make sure that it is in fact a standard Becker pallet, and if not, what in fact it is because you'll need to match it.
TennisMaverick
Banned
Don't let anyone clown you, dude.
Firstly, are the butt caps identical?
Next....unwrap the frakking grip until you can read the number. If it is just a number, then you have a regular pallet. If you have a number and a letter, most likely an "S", then you have an Attiva pallet. Anything else and you have a pallet which doesn't belong there and was force fit--check the inner sides of the pallet and the hairpin.
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TennisMaverick
Banned
How much do you want to bet? Will you pay through PayPal?
msalamon
Rookie
first off thanks for your response and insight
-the but caps are identical--they are the orange ones with the serverman logo
I will open up the grips today and check the numbering on the pallets
I see at this link:
http://www.doittennis.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=pallet&location=header
that there are 4 different pallet options. What are the differences between the 4?
thanks in advance
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
You can't go by the buttcap only....you can put most any buttcap over any pallet...as long as it fits over it.
those pallets on doittennis....the 2 Becker's are identical...just color, although the orange ones are usually what comes with Becker racquets when you buy them new. The Volkl Attiva is less rectangular that the other Volkl one...similar to Wilson's shape. Lastly, the Volk pallets are more rectangular than the Beckers. The one you should be using for your London's is the orange Becker one. Its also not recommended putting Volkl pallets on Becker racquets and vice versa, although they do seem to fit.
TennisMaverick
Banned
The first one is for the older 2007 model BBs. It is the regular pallet which was on the BB 11s, which had the button coming through the butt cap.
The second orange one is the current BB reg pallet, which should be on your Londons, as well as Melbourne and London Tour. ***The only difference between these two pallet sets are the butt caps***
The third is Volkl Attiva pallet which will have the number and an "S" below the number. It is the most round pallet, between the Volkl and both BB pallets.
The last one is the Volkl reg pallet, which is the most rectangular in the line.
All four pallets are interchangeable on the sticks from which they came.
There are more pallet types, but most of the consumers who want to switch pallets are predominately using the more advanced frames, all of which have reg pallets, except for the V1s. doit caries these pallets as a favor for Volkl, as it is not profitable to do so. Whenever you order a pallet set, they, the retailer, are basically paying you for the privilege.
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msalamon
Rookie
Excellent info--thank you! I will be checking the pallets today and will report back.
One other question:
I'm looking for a leather grip to replace the BB sythetic grip. I want to match the head finest calfskin grip that I have on the good racket.
How is the volkl?
http://www.doittennis.com/replacementgrips/volkl-leather.php
One other question:
I'm looking for a leather grip to replace the BB sythetic grip. I want to match the head finest calfskin grip that I have on the good racket.
How is the volkl?
http://www.doittennis.com/replacementgrips/volkl-leather.php
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Volkl and Becker make a very nice high quality leather grip, but they are a little heavier than the Head's, so as long as u are OK with that. I have 2 brand new Head leather grips I just took of of 2 new Prestige racquets. You can have them both for $10. Just email me thru my profile I'd u want them.
dje31
Professional
I have both, and found the Volkl is slightly thinner than the BB, at least in the black version.
msalamon
Rookie
So, I removed the top part of the grip and carefully peeled down the tape on each racket.
It appears they do in fact both have the same pallet-with a clearly labled 3 on each side. The pallets are black and appear to be made out of hard plastic.
In examining the grips, it seems that the difference between to two may in fact account for the pronounced difference in feel.
The BB sythetic grip is very squishy, and thin.
By comparison, the Head Finest Calfskin grip is VERY thick and hard.
So, It looks like all will have to do is get a leather grip to replace the sythetic one after all! ( I sent you a PM Jackb1)
It appears they do in fact both have the same pallet-with a clearly labled 3 on each side. The pallets are black and appear to be made out of hard plastic.
In examining the grips, it seems that the difference between to two may in fact account for the pronounced difference in feel.
The BB sythetic grip is very squishy, and thin.
By comparison, the Head Finest Calfskin grip is VERY thick and hard.
So, It looks like all will have to do is get a leather grip to replace the sythetic one after all! ( I sent you a PM Jackb1)
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Now you know why some prefer synthetic, some prefer leather, some prefer something in between, and some prefer none of the above;-) I think I mentioned in my first response that the answer might possibly be replacement-grip related. And to think that many dismiss "feel" as irrelevant!???
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msalamon
Rookie
yup-you nailed it. Now if I can just find another head finest calfskin---it seems like its impossible to find
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
I'm glad your most pressing problem is solved, anyway. That must be a nice leather grip, as I would have assumed, as you did, that the cushioned synthetic would almost surely be thicker, but my experience with leather has only been with the thinnest TW variety.
I'm planning to pick up a few Volkl leather grips pretty soon. From what I understand, they are some of the heaviest and thickest you'll find, but I think that's already been stated. I wish you the best on your search.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
If you look at my response, I said the same thing
Yeah, but you muddied the waters with talk of measurements, tailors, and the rabbit trail of a faulty pallet and/or improper installation. Just messing with you, Jack, but I think it's my ad, nonetheless
TennisMaverick
Banned
I neglected to mention to check the gap in the seams between the two halves of the pallet. Sometimes during assembly, the double-sided adhesive tape is not applied carefully enough and the pallet halves do not adhere tightly or close together. That drives me nuts, and forces you to take it apart and do it yourself.
***THE SIZE OF THE GAP BETWEEN HALVES MAKES A RADICAL DIFFERENCE IN THE FEEL OF THE GRIP, EVEN IF THE GAP SIZE SEEMS MINOR***
And if you really want to see if you have a Volkl reg vs a BB reg pallet besides by feel, since you are not familiar, check the staples in the butt. If the pallet was switched but the original orange butt cap was used, it will have multiple staple holes.
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Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Don't worry; he got it. But the way Jack wheels and deals on these boards, your calling his bluff has probably prompted him to go rummaging around Atlanta to actually find the grips for $8 or less, to turn a profit. Factor in your gas money, Jack
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Yes. I will check tonite when I get home if they are what you want. All I can say is they came off of Youtek Prestige Pro's. I don't think it says anything on them though saying "Heads Finest Calfskin"?
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Don't worry; he got it. But the way Jack wheels and deals on these boards, your calling his bluff has probably prompted him to go rummaging around Atlanta to actually find the grips for $8 or less, to turn a profit. Factor in your gas money, Jack
Not quite sure what you are talking about? Just trying to help him out.
I always replace any leather grips with synth ones...don't like the harsh feel. Not going to get rich selling grips
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Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
Not quite sure what you are talking about? Just trying to help him out.
I always replace any leather grips with synth ones...don't like the harsh feel. Not going to get rich selling grips
Just a joke, Jack. I guess I shouldn't always assume a kindred sense of humor. Nothing personal.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, but you muddied the waters with talk of measurements, tailors, and the rabbit trail of a faulty pallet and/or improper installation. Just messing with you, Jack, but I think it's my ad, nonetheless
"muddied"? I couldn't have been more clear in my explanation. ??
BTW...your comments intrigued me concerning the Prestige Pro and having now tried it, I understand why you were so taken with it
What a sweeeeet feeling stick! When you make perfect contact it's heavenly. No wonder it's got such a large following here and also on the Pro level.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
No offense taken and i did see your smiley, but didn't quite get the "calling your bluff' comment?
I wouldn't offer up something I didn't have. That doesn't make much sense.
Pneumated1
Hall of Fame
"muddied"? I couldn't have been more clear in my explanation. ??
BTW...your comments intrigued me concerning the Prestige Pro and having now tried it, I understand why you were so taken with it
My experience with the PP was weird. I loved it for about an hour, and almost as if a light switch went off, it felt like a board, and I didn't care for it at all. It is a great frame in the sweetspot, but I really think they should have made the frame much more flexible.
And no, I'm not buying your sticks; I saw them For Sale
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
My experience with the PP was weird. I loved it for about an hour, and almost as if a light switch went off, it felt like a board, and I didn't care for it at all. It is a great frame in the sweetspot, but I really think they should have made the frame much more flexible.
And no, I'm not buying your sticks; I saw them For Sale
I still have 2 new ones. I sold 3 used ones.
You should try it with Nat gut in the mains....pure hitting bliss
but I agree....with poly or die-ing poly, it can feel a bit harsh. But I find it's flex middle of the road-ish. Similar to my DC Pro and slightly less than the London. They are all rated in the mid 60's.
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TennisMaverick
Banned
This is a really great thread. Let's PLEASE keep the trolling to a minimum to keep the thread from being closed. Thank you!
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djNEiGht
Legend
tmav and other london/pb10 users.
i have yet to weight my london set up since adding lead. currently has BB leather grip and OG and 4 strips of the sampras power strips 3/9 & 5/7.
i am curious as to how this set up compares to a pb10 mp stock or with leather grip and og. a friend has one he offered to me for $70. I will need to change the pallet size though.
i will also post up in one of the pb10 threads...
cheers
i have yet to weight my london set up since adding lead. currently has BB leather grip and OG and 4 strips of the sampras power strips 3/9 & 5/7.
i am curious as to how this set up compares to a pb10 mp stock or with leather grip and og. a friend has one he offered to me for $70. I will need to change the pallet size though.
i will also post up in one of the pb10 threads...
cheers
TennisMaverick
Banned
The London is much softer, has a much longer dwell time, and gets more bite. The PB 10 MP is a scalpel. It is a really great frame which requires very grooved strokes. If you're very deliberate on-contact, the ball will go exactly where you want it to go, as the player yields all with this stick. That is why it was great, but that is why it didn't sell well, as many non-competitive players are not good enough to wield it nor accurately play-test it. You need to be a very solid 4.5 at minimum to understand this frame, but if you string the PB 10 MP on the looser end of the spectrum, you can get a lot more spin and forgiveness. Then, it plays like a more precise Melbourne, without the ball cupping action--but the tension drop will definitely help with spin production. Lastly, it is easier to get the PB 10 MP to play like your London, than the reverse, because as with all DC frames, the London is mod sensitive.
I am helping pneumated1 with his London mods. Give a few days and then pick his brain.
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Thinking of trying full poly in my london. I currently have tour bite, bhbr, turbotwist, black code, WC scorpion, and genesis black magic. Looking to tame some of the power I found with a gut/poly hyrbid.
(one-handed backhand, slice, get to net, try to dictate with forehand--4.0, if it matters).
What has been the experience using full poly in the london?
(one-handed backhand, slice, get to net, try to dictate with forehand--4.0, if it matters).
What has been the experience using full poly in the london?
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JackB1
G.O.A.T.
Full poly works well at low tension, to retain some of the dwell time. Try it at 53/51. Black Magic is the most powerful of all the poly's you listed, so I wouldn't use that. I would recommend either BHBR or Tour Bite. The other 3 after that are slightly more powerful.
JackB1
G.O.A.T.
What's left to try?
Reminds me of BP trying to figure out how to stop the oil leak in the Gulf
(just getting you back some Pneumy ;-))
