F1 2013 Thread!!!!

tistrapukcipeht · Apr 22, 2013

Bobby Jr said:
Or Alonso.

LOL, Vettel and Hamilton are the fastest guys out there on a single flying lap, if you put all of them on the same car, same time, Vettel and Hamilton will be the fastest.

Massa is 2x1 against Alonso this year in qualifying, plus all the team orders and draw backs that Massa has to cope with because He is the second driver, have you thought about if they had equal status?? Hamilton proved to be faster than Alonso while both in the Mclaren. Now you want to compare Massa with Vettel or Hamilton, or Kimi??

TennisLovaLova said:
Just imagine kimi driving the redbull...

Driving styles are different, cars drive differently, results can be different, Vettel wins races not all the time you see Mark Webber around him, that proves that it isn't only the car.

I hope Kimi takes it this year, but Vettel will be tougher and tougher as He is improving a lot, Alonso is already surpassed by Vettel or at least matched, last race with a crappy car for that track Vettel was no match even though He finished well, Ferrari has a great car this, out of the 3 races I'd say it's the best of them all, that is why we see Massa in the top with Alonso.

tistrapukcipeht · Apr 22, 2013

Bobby Jr said:
I have watched F1 for 25 years plus - almost every race of every season - and never recall that happening as you describe. The rear suspension is one of the strongest parts of the car - no indirect force from a front impact in which the car remained drivable could possibly damage it.

Me too, I have been watching since 86.

Maybe you're getting to old to recall , but it happened many time, the wishbones can break and it's not that hard to break, and lateral impact (from crashes can cause damage) it has happened before.

Bobby Jr · Apr 22, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
Me too, I have been watching since 86.

Maybe you're getting to old to recall , but it happened many time, the wishbones can break and it's not that hard to break, and lateral impact (from crashes can cause damage) it has happened before.

Rear wishbones do break, you're right - but not from relatively minor front impacts. Never that I recall at least. Since you made the claim, why don't you share us some examples which fit the parameters we were discussing?

Bobby Jr · Apr 22, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
LOL, Vettel and Hamilton are the fastest guys out there on a single flying lap, if you put all of them on the same car, same time, Vettel and Hamilton will be the fastest.

You would seem to know less about driving than you think you do. Given a car set-up for them Alonso and Riakonnen are as good as Vettel or Hamilton. Vettel is in fact probably one of the poorest of these four in that respect.

Don't go off on your nonsense qualifying argument spiel like last time either because anyone who knows even the slightest bit about F1 can comprehend there are a myriad of reasons a driver could post a quicker lap in a qualifying session - they are not a definitive measure of a driver's speed. Your example of Massa out-qualifying Alonso this year is a perfect example.

West Coast Ace · Apr 23, 2013

TennisLovaLova said:
Just imagine kimi driving the redbull...

Wow! Lap the entire field?

Bobby Jr said:
Or Alonso.

+1.

But let's give the annoying German some credit. Unless he was playing possum - he wasn't all that fast in practice; but pulled off another great Q3 run then (yeah, it was Rosburg) easily took over 1st and ran away and hid. And managed not to destroy his tires. So he has some skill.

Button already sick of Perez - didn't see that coming... (/sarcasm)

TennisLovaLova · Apr 25, 2013

West Coast Ace said:
Wow! Lap the entire field?

+1.

But let's give the annoying German some credit. Unless he was playing possum - he wasn't all that fast in practice; but pulled off another great Q3 run then (yeah, it was Rosburg) easily took over 1st and ran away and hid. And managed not to destroy his tires. So he has some skill.

Button already sick of Perez - didn't see that coming... (/sarcasm)

I think it's obvious that at this level most of the pilots are very skilled.
Maybe Vettel is less skilled than Kimi or Alonso and his car has a superior acceleration than the lotus and the ferrari but IMO he's very old school in terms of risk management.
I prefer reckless drivers, kimi in this case. The guy often starts 8-10 and manages to finish in the top 3.
Vettel doesnt do that.

Bobby Jr · May 8, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
LOL, Vettel and Hamilton are the fastest guys out there on a single flying lap, if you put all of them on the same car, same time, Vettel and Hamilton will be the fastest.

From Hamilton yesterday... a guy who has no love lost with Alonso.

"It's funny, but the driver I admire most is Fernando - for his sheer speed, his simply incredible speed. I don't think anyone can match him in the sport."

From: http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/8697437/Lewis-I-admire-Alonso-the-most

tistrapukcipeht · May 12, 2013

TennisLovaLova said:
I think it's obvious that at this level most of the pilots are very skilled.
Maybe Vettel is less skilled than Kimi or Alonso and his car has a superior acceleration than the lotus and the ferrari but IMO he's very old school in terms of risk management.
I prefer reckless drivers, kimi in this case. The guy often starts 8-10 and manages to finish in the top 3.
Vettel doesnt do that.

Hummm, a little task for you, here. Go look up the last 4-5 races of last year, specally the last race in which Vettel came from all the way in the back to win the Championship, there was one race He came from dead last to finish in the top, there were at least 4 races He came from the bottom to the top.

I like Kimi a lot, I hope he can win the Championship.

Bobby Jr said:
From Hamilton yesterday... a guy who has no love lost with Alonso.

From: http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/8697437/Lewis-I-admire-Alonso-the-most

I understand you love Alonso, I also like him, but i don't care what Lewis has to say, He is just another demagog out there.

Ferrari has the best car overall this year, the results aren't showing because of a few things, partly some mistakes of Alonso and Ferrari, partly because of Vettel and Kimi's abilities, when there are other guys that can race they can also take it from him, Vettel has done the best job from all of them.

At the end of the season if Alonso doesn't win this Championship He can hang up the gloves, it just won't happen anymore. If Massa is finishing in the top 3 ahead of Vettel that tells you something about how good the Ferrari is.

Today was another boring Barcelona race, unless it rains there it is always boring.

Bobby Jr · May 12, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
At the end of the season if Alonso doesn't win this Championship He can hang up the gloves, it just won't happen anymore. If Massa is finishing in the top 3 ahead of Vettel that tells you something about how good the Ferrari is.

Today was another boring Barcelona race, unless it rains there it is always boring.

Considering you claim to have watched F1 for many years you seem to omit to consider (conveniently perhaps) that individual results rarely make for a season-long parable. It is also common knowledge amongst F1 followers that different teams are historically stronger at certain tracks for a number of reasons including whether they practised there (not so important any more as limited testing opps mean everyone is usually at every practice opportunity) or if their car leans towards being a high or low downforce circuit car. Being both is historically a tall order so teams generally lean one way and do their best at non-deal tracks.

RedBull came 6th and 11th last year and 4th and 5th this year. It would appear the track suits others a little more. Perhaps since it's the first race back after the break others have been able to bridge the gap somewhat with new parts etc.

You are right on one thing though - it was a pretty boring race.

tistrapukcipeht · May 26, 2013

Great racing in Monaco today, Mercedes finally found a track they could hold everybody behind them.

Great drives by Sutil and Peres (despite the final result), great passes over Alonso (tried to cheat Peres).

Vettel is now matured, solid, fast and intelligent, probably will win this year again due to his regularity.

Alonso meanwhile took 3 great passes, I wonder what is the excuse now, maybe something broken in his car perhaps?

Sander001 · May 26, 2013

Disagree about Perez; he was taking advantage of the fact that he isn't racing for the championship while the other drivers were. He was forcing them off the track or else they'd crash into him. Kimi was having none of it though, on his radio: That idiot will crash into me and after the race was asked if the drivers would talk to Perez, Raikkonen said: "That won't help. Maybe someone should punch him in the face."

bezs · May 27, 2013

Perez is driving like a maniac on go karts. Ruined Kimi's race.

West Coast Ace · May 27, 2013

Sander001 said:
Disagree about Perez; he was taking advantage of the fact that he isn't racing for the championship while the other drivers were. He was forcing them off the track or else they'd crash into him. Kimi was having none of it though, on his radio: That idiot will crash into me and after the race was asked if the drivers would talk to Perez, Raikkonen said: "That won't help. Maybe someone should punch him in the face."

Well said. Perez is out of control. Daring guys who have something to race for - the championship and constructors - to wreck isn't good driving. His own teammate - Button - called him out earlier in the year and doesn't trust him.

Congrats to Rosberg for the win.

SempreSami · May 27, 2013

Perez is awful, like Taki Inoue or something.

tistrapukcipeht · May 27, 2013

I know He is driving like crazy, I think it was his fault as well on that accident against Kimi, but you guys have to give it up for him, He makes some great passes, specially on Button. That one on Alonso was freaking awesome, Alonso tried to cheat cutting the chicane but he had to give the position back to Perez.

F1 needs more rivalries, Alonso/ Hamilton was a good one, we need more and drivers like Perez will create a lot more disagreements and problems out there, exactly what we need, Button is passive and Perez is already taking the lead in the team, all these passes create confidence to the team and show the driver is willing to take risks to get to the final result.

Sander001 · May 27, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
That one on Alonso was freaking awesome, Alonso tried to cheat cutting the chicane but he had to give the position back to Perez.

That one on Alonso would've resulted in an accident that would've retired both cars on the spot had Alonso decided to not avoid it by cutting the chicane.

West Coast Ace · May 27, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
...but you guys have to give it up for him, He makes some great passes,...

Uh, no, we don't. Forcing another driver to choose between a DNF and letting someone by isn't going to earn someone respect.

tistrapukcipeht · Jun 9, 2013

West Coast Ace said:
Uh, no, we don't. Forcing another driver to choose between a DNF and letting someone by isn't going to earn someone respect.

You don't get it, this is formula 1, they must put up or shut up! It was just like that in the past without these stupid rules, Mansell did those crazy passes all the time. If you didn't see F1 in the late 80's early 90's , you missed out.

tistrapukcipeht · Jun 9, 2013

Nice qualifying, Vettel comes on the top with rain again.

Hopefully it will be raining there for the race.

West Coast Ace · Jun 9, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
You don't get it, this is formula 1, they must put up or shut up! It was just like that in the past without these stupid rules, Mansell did those crazy passes all the time. If you didn't see F1 in the late 80's early 90's , you missed out.

Didn't have DRS back then. It would be one thing if he took these shots on the last lap; but he's doing it in the middle of the race.

Perez (as of today) couldn't carry Nigel's strap.

Nice run by Vettel - I guess Pirelli learned how to make tires during the off weeks.

Alonso did well to get 2nd. And Massa avoided the magnets in the walls...

tistrapukcipeht · Jun 9, 2013

West Coast Ace said:
Didn't have DRS back then. It would be one thing if he took these shots on the last lap; but he's doing it in the middle of the race.

Perez (as of today) couldn't carry Nigel's strap.

Nice run by Vettel - I guess Pirelli learned how to make tires during the off weeks. Alonso did well to get 2nd. And Massa avoided the magnets in the walls...

Pass is a pass, it doesn't matter if there is DRS and what not, or if it was 20 years ago, your point is vague, there is no rule to how aggressive somebody can be, either you like it or not, I like it and want to see some more of that type of drivers.

Vettel is just a better driver than the others, it's rain, it's dry, when he is car is better he wins the races, when it isn't he is still finishes on the top, while others lose races they were supposed to win, Vettel rarely loses a race He is supposed to win, unfortunately Kimi Won't win this Championship, but Alonso ain't winning it, too inconsistent specially on qualifying.

tistrapukcipeht · Jun 30, 2013

Interesting race today in the boring Silverstone, thanks to Pirelli it was a cool race.

Only way Vettel is topped is by the transmission. Alonso drove very nicely as well, believe it or not Webber too (1 out of 20 races He puts up a good performance), maybe because Hewitt was there.

Kimi was the one that lost a lot today He should be mad.

Mercedes is a different team now, I wonder if illegal tests are helping them, lol.

MarrratSafin · Jun 30, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
Interesting race today in the boring Silverstone, thanks to Pirelli it was a cool race.

Only way Vettel is topped is by the transmission. Alonso drove very nicely as well, believe it or not Webber too (1 out of 20 races He puts up a good performance), maybe because Hewitt was there.

Kimi was the one that lost a lot today He should be mad.

Mercedes is a different team now, I wonder if illegal tests are helping them, lol.

Lewis would've been ahead of Vettel if not for the tyre blow. He was equal if not faster than Alonso at the end while driving a damaged car on older tyres.

Pirelli need to sort their stuff out, yesterday was unacceptable and if this happens at Eau Rouge at Spa-Francorchamps the drivers are in danger.

tistrapukcipeht · Jul 7, 2013

Good ol' ring of Nürburg, Lotus may take this one.

tistrapukcipeht · Jul 7, 2013

MarrratSafin said:
Lewis would've been ahead of Vettel if not for the tyre blow. He was equal if not faster than Alonso at the end while driving a damaged car on older tyres.

Pirelli need to sort their stuff out, yesterday was unacceptable and if this happens at Eau Rouge at Spa-Francorchamps the drivers are in danger.

Not really, because Lewis' aggressive way to drive He will always wear tires off faster than some other guys, this is his pattern, maybe in a certain part of the race He looked good, but at the end He would not have been because of how he destroys tires.

West Coast Ace · Jul 7, 2013

Interesting race - was worried after 3 laps it would end up being a procession - but there was some action. Again, Alonso scrambles to salvage a 4th and stay within reach of the title. Thought he would reel in Grosjean too and even get a podium. Glad the cameraman didn't get hit in the head by Webber's tire.

tistrapukcipeht · Sep 9, 2013

Let's just make it a race for 2nd place, Vettel is far superior and more consistent than all others.

Lukhas · Oct 5, 2013

Grosjean should be banned from F1. He's making races too interesting. :twisted:

Lukhas · Oct 6, 2013

Safety Car just saved Mercedes' sorry 4ss really.

Lukhas · Oct 6, 2013

:shock:

Ecclestone must be erupting with rage. What a loosy organization. What the hell a car does in the middle of the track? Well Räikkönen got away with Grosjean's 2nd place, good for him. Guess we won't see another South Korean Grand Prix anytime soon.

Lukhas · Oct 6, 2013

Well at least not for a year. Deutsche Qualität once again on the top of the podium.

Pete.Sampras. · Oct 7, 2013

I think it's getting really boring now. Vettel wins because he has the fastest car, a car designed for him, not for his teammate who is clearly the number 2 and has technical problems in almost every race. Vettel hardly needs to go 100%. Even his competition says that it's his car that is unbeatable, not himself. I never heard so many complaints from drivers about previous champions.

I'm not saying that Vettel isn't a deserved champion or anything like that. He's certainly one of the best out there. But his absolute dominance... that's his car imo. I want to see him in an inferior car. If he pulls off a year like Alonso did in 2012, then I'll be truly convinced.

I hope the next season will end Red Bull's dominance, although I'm already starting to doubt it. Guys like Alonso, Hamilton, Rosberg, Raikkonen and others, they deserve the championship too. They're doing a great job as well every year. They just don't have a car that can beat the RB on a constant basis.

I'm just a fan of the sport. I want to see interesting races, different winners and a championship that 1. isn't decided until the end of the season and 2. isn't decided by a car alone or some miraculously update from Adrian Newey which turns an interesting season into a RB-dominance once again

henno · Oct 7, 2013

I didn't watch the last 5 races because it became so boring and I'm someone who watches Formula 1 since 1998. The main problem is that even the FIA can do anything about it. Hopefully the situation will correct itself and there will be more competition on the circuit.

TheF1Bob · Oct 7, 2013

Can't believe I got up for that crapfest.

Lukhas · Oct 12, 2013

Webber scores a pole-position just before Vettel. So, how many hectometres before he either has bad luck, or is forced to let Vettel go in front? Even Webber doesn't hold his qualifications in high standard because Vettel had a problem with his KERS system. Hamilton just behind, and Groshean once again just next to them. Alonso and Räikkönen? 8th and 9th, respectively.

Pete.Sampras. · Oct 12, 2013

Vettel lost his KERS and still made a 2nd place clearly ahead of the rest of the field. That says all about the superiority of the Red Bull. Let Rosberg's KERS fail and he will end up 10th in Q3.

Anyway, I hope Webber will win the race. It's his final season and I want him to go out with a victory or two. But I guess Vettel will already be ahead of him in the first corner, right after the start. I hope I'm wrong though.

No other car/driver is really in for the win, not unless unexpected circumstances like heavy rain or crashes and lucky "safety-car-pit-stuff" happens. The circuit itself alone is worth getting up that early though... and the start of course

rainingaces · Oct 12, 2013

Pete.Sampras. said:
Vettel lost his KERS and still made a 2nd place clearly ahead of the rest of the field. That says all about the superiority of the Red Bull. Let Rosberg's KERS fail and he will end up 10th in Q3.

Anyway, I hope Webber will win the race. It's his final season and I want him to go out with a victory or two. But I guess Vettel will already be ahead of him in the first corner, right after the start. I hope I'm wrong though.

No other car/driver is really in for the win, not unless unexpected circumstances like heavy rain or crashes and lucky "safety-car-pit-stuff" happens. The circuit itself alone is worth getting up that early though... and the start of course

Vettel could win the next 5 world titles if this redbull team sticks together and he isn't the best driver. These Germans make f1 boring.

PSNELKE · Oct 12, 2013

KERSless Vettel still starting from the first row. And yet there are still some clowns denying the massive superiority of the CAR, not Vettel. lol

Lukhas · Oct 12, 2013

Shame on Lotus and their lame strategy. They let Grosjean at the mercy of both Vettel and Webber despite his good start. Yet he was slower, but that's a pretty poor strategy, and nothing justified the fact of letting him stay on the track. Clearly lacked ambition there, they decided to race for second place instead of the win, and they're gonna end with 3rd place for their trouble. Disappointing.

tistrapukcipeht · Oct 13, 2013

rainingaces said:
Vettel could win the next 5 world titles if this redbull team sticks together and he isn't the best driver. These Germans make f1 boring.

They are just much better ah, I agree

PSNELKE said:
KERSless Vettel still starting from the first row. And yet there are still some clowns denying the massive superiority of the CAR, not Vettel. lol

LOL,

you guys are lame, there is always an excuse you create when Vettel wins, fact is, no matter what He is always winning and finishing on the top while the others can't do what He does, so He is the best driver, day in day out He is the best of them.

Without KERS He was still up there, if the equipment is not working, then it has to be driver's ability.

Vettel has to go to Ferrari to make it a winnable car again.

The car excuse is already over played, try something different.

Let's just agree that Vettel is superior to all others and the car helps, but meanwhile Webber can't do crap with the same car.

NickC · Oct 13, 2013

Vettel's dominance this season has made it boring. It's like 2003-2007 in Tennis where everyone knew that Federer would win everything in sight, he was just that much better.

PSNELKE · Oct 13, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
They are just much better ah, I agree

LOL,

you guys are lame, there is always an excuse you create when Vettel wins, fact is, no matter what He is always winning and finishing on the top while the others can't do what He does, so He is the best driver, day in day out He is the best of them.

Without KERS He was still up there, if the equipment is not working, then it has to be driver's ability.

Vettel has to go to Ferrari to make it a winnable car again.

The car excuse is already over played, try something different.

Let's just agree that Vettel is superior to all others and the car helps, but meanwhile Webber can't do crap with the same car.

Fanboyism at its finest.

Lukhas · Oct 13, 2013

And Webber as usual cannot hope to win. Disappointing Grand Prix really, between this, Lotus' absolute failure to elaborate and adapt a strategy for a guy who managed to sniff the 1st place off the start and will be racing for them next year, and Hamilton's problems throwing a possible battle for the top places... Not as disappointing as South Korea though, but SK GP has more to do with the officials being pretty bad.

Pete.Sampras. · Oct 13, 2013

tistrapukcipeht said:
They are just much better ah, I agree

LOL,

you guys are lame, there is always an excuse you create when Vettel wins, fact is, no matter what He is always winning and finishing on the top while the others can't do what He does, so He is the best driver, day in day out He is the best of them.

Without KERS He was still up there, if the equipment is not working, then it has to be driver's ability.

Vettel has to go to Ferrari to make it a winnable car again.

The car excuse is already over played, try something different.

Let's just agree that Vettel is superior to all others and the car helps, but meanwhile Webber can't do crap with the same car.

I know that you're a F1-fan, probably for a long time now, so I highly doubt that you actually believe this.

Most experts consider Alonso the best. His 2012 performance in a clearly inferior car reminded me of a prime Michael Schumacher.

Put any of the other top drivers in a Red Bull and they will do the same as Vettel. Personally, I consider Vettel third best behind Alonso and Hamilton and I think Raikkonen, Rosberg or maybe(!) even Hulkenberg (very impressive lately) could be on par with him. Am I forgetting someone?

Anyway, why did Webber do three stops? Before the second one it became obvious that it would not be good enough for the win, so why not change the strategy and let the guy who's known to like the harder tires anyway go 20-25 laps with his 14 seconds lead? Had Vettel been in this position, I bet they would have changed strategies.

Edit: Red Bull's chief aerodynamics guy will leave RB and join McLaren, not sure if 2014 or 15, but it has been confirmed. Maybe some "hope" at the end of the tunnel

Pete.Sampras. · Oct 14, 2013

I read some articles today about how Red Bull changed Webber's tactic from 2 to 3 stops during the race to help Vettel win. Webber was originally supposed to make 2 stops, which turned out to be the faster strategy overall. Webber would have won the GP most likely with 2 stops. Oh what a surprise. I mean it's not like RB has always favoured Vettel, isn't it?! :-?

And that aerodynamics guy is still with RB in 2014 and then joins McLaren in 2015 btw.

TennisLovaLova · Oct 15, 2013

here's the most interesting that happened this year in Formula 1:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dad_1381057458

Sander001 · Oct 15, 2013

Pete.Sampras. said:
And that aerodynamics guy is still with RB in 2014 and then joins McLaren in 2015 btw.

Adrian Newey? Link please.

PaulFCB · Oct 16, 2013

Sander001 said:
Adrian Newey? Link please.

No dude, it's about Peter Prodromou, Newey's he's boss.

First of all, there are chances that Newey will move from Red Bull similar to Ross Brawn from Benetton along with Schumacher in '96.
Maybe McLaren are getting ready now.

.

Alex78 · Oct 16, 2013

Pete.Sampras. said:
I mean it's not like RB has always favoured Vettel, isn't it?! :-?

Reminds me of "Let Michael pass for championship"

- Not a real F1 fan here, but to me it seems like the only real way to have this actually resemble a true sport is to have all drivers use exactly the same equipment. So do away with teams...
Hardly possible at all, I know...

Lukhas · Oct 26, 2013

Pirelli saying that in India the tires are destroyed so fast that the pilots should pit stop... at the second lap! Priceless.

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