What's my approximate rating? (video)

andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
At best, meaning it's a stretch that I'm a 3.5?

You're probably right, though I'm curious as to what aspects of the video helped you determine my ranking.

p.s. Morrissey rules.
 
J

josofo

Semi-Pro
3.5 (above average though)

all those balls that were hit that got cut were out? i thought a lot of those balls had a chance.
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
I cut the ones that my opponent hit out because I feel weird about showing errors he made. He and I both had a really bad day on the court and were able to laugh about it afterward but we were cursing up a storm on the court because we were so off.

The first backhand return I hit looks like it goes long but it was actually in.

Thanks for the feedback! If you can help by pointing out the spots or aspects that helped you determine the rating, I'd really appreciate it!
 
Moz

Moz

Hall of Fame
I really meant not higher than 3.5 - but I'm not in a position to judge the difference between 3.0 and 3.5.

For me you seem to be off balance on many of your shots and you often run through shots due to your footwork and anticipation. You seem to have a basic of method of moving large distances across the court, but no method of making the small adjustment steps necessary when getting close to contact point.

Where you get an opportunity to attack you adopt a strange forehand slice and don't seem to know how to try to finish the point effectively from half court.

Your backhand looks extremely limited in its effective contact height and operates on very low margins over the net.

P.s. That's my childhood nickname - I'm into Iron Maiden!
 
J

josofo

Semi-Pro
andrehanderson said:
I cut the ones that my opponent hit out because I feel weird about showing errors he made. He and I both had a really bad day on the court and were able to laugh about it afterward but we were cursing up a storm on the court because we were so off.

The first backhand return I hit looks like it goes long but it was actually in.

Thanks for the feedback! If you can help by pointing out the spots or aspects that helped you determine the rating, I'd really appreciate it!
Click to expand...



k so i watched it again. you put together 2-3 decent points and hit 4-5 winners. i like that you can hit forehand and backhands for winners (not a ton of 3.5 can do that). your slice forehand on the short balls is something you can work on (i actually do the same thing a lot of times 2 my anger). you probably could play in a 4.0 league and figure it out in a year or 2. i said 3.5 cuz i thought now you are playing more upper 3.5 tennis than mid 4.0 tennis. you certainly wouldn't of been the worst player in my 4.0 league this year, so if you play usta sure play 4.0 why not.
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
Moz said:
I really meant not higher than 3.5 - but I'm not in a position to judge the difference between 3.0 and 3.5.

For me you seem to be off balance on many of your shots and you often run through shots due to your footwork and anticipation. You seem to have a basic of method of moving large distances across the court, but no method of making the small adjustment steps necessary when getting close to contact point.

Where you get an opportunity to attack you adopt a strange forehand slice and don't seem to know how to try to finish the point effectively from half court.

Your backhand looks extremely limited in its effective contact height and operates on very low margins over the net.

P.s. That's my childhood nickname - I'm into Iron Maiden!
Click to expand...

Well, then I have to ask you...Dianno or Dickenson?

I saw Dianno live last year and loved it. I was always a Dickenson fan throughout my teens (in the 80's), but as I got older I grew to love the Dianno stuff (Maiden's first two albums).

I'm a lifelong metalhead and Iron Maiden was always my favorite as well.

But Morrissey is something different and awesome...I was a fan of the Smiths and his solo stuff and I'll probably always be a fan. My wife says it sounds like he's dying, but then I don't talk to her for several days.

Thanks for the feedback. I think you are right on all of your points and I think I know why I'm making those mistakes:

1) I'm fatter than I've ever been in my life. (Which is screwing up my timing, making me late on everything)

2) I have really bad tennis elbow, to the point that I can't shake anyone's hand, so I'm not hitting full strokes, especially on backhand--that's when it hurts the most. The forearm-band I'm wearing helps but my arm still ends up pretty useless after the session is over.

3) The midcourt slice thing I do is a remanent of my high school serve and volley days. I used to hit that shot deep as an approach and volley the shot that came back at me but I'm too slow and have lost my touch so I need to get rid of that shot for now.

And short--I agree with you. Thanks!
 
TheBoom

TheBoom

Hall of Fame
I would say around a 3.5 give or take with the area your in. Not a bad backhand I like it actually. The mid court slice can be an effective shot, I happen to use it on my approaches at times and mix up angles with deep shots to keep opponents off balance. I wouldnt drop the shot I would simply work on driving through and try to work on your feel with the shot
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
josofo said:
k so i watched it again. you put together 2-3 decent points and hit 4-5 winners. i like that you can hit forehand and backhands for winners (not a ton of 3.5 can do that). your slice forehand on the short balls is something you can work on (i actually do the same thing a lot of times 2 my anger). you probably could play in a 4.0 league and figure it out in a year or 2. i said 3.5 cuz i thought now you are playing more upper 3.5 tennis than mid 4.0 tennis. you certainly wouldn't of been the worst player in my 4.0 league this year, so if you play usta sure play 4.0 why not.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I think 3.5 is probably right, and maybe generous considering I'm so out of shape and 20 years removed from my best tennis. I'm happy with the progress I've made in the year and a half since I returned to the game after a couple of decades of not even watching it. My next step is to get in shape and do something about my tennis elbow...then I'll work hard on preparing for tournaments. I'll be 42 in a couple of weeks so I feel like I need to rush to improve--running out of time! ;)
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
TheBoom said:
I would say around a 3.5 give or take with the area your in. Not a bad backhand I like it actually. The mid court slice can be an effective shot, I happen to use it on my approaches at times and mix up angles with deep shots to keep opponents off balance. I wouldnt drop the shot I would simply work on driving through and try to work on your feel with the shot
Click to expand...

Thanks! I like the slice but unless I really get my opponent off balance I find that they pass me pretty easily. I think I'll keep it, but as you said, I'll have to work on making it more effective with more penetration and angle.

Thanks again!
 
TheBoom

TheBoom

Hall of Fame
andrehanderson said:
Thanks! I like the slice but unless I really get my opponent off balance I find that they pass me pretty easily. I think I'll keep it, but as you said, I'll have to work on making it more effective with more penetration and angle.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...

No problem! just make sure you turn your shoulders and dont arm the ball as much and it will make a world of difference!
 
S

sunof tennis

Professional
andrehanderson said:
I started off really mis-hitting a lot this morning, but later started to get my groove. It wasn't a very good day--a lot of unforced errors--but perhaps I can get an idea from you guys about my approximate rating? I'm in the red shirt.

Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0J1M-O1_uI
Click to expand...

Your strokes aren't too bad. I would guesss 3.5+. I would work on your serve toss. The first one I saw was so far over your head you ended up taking two steps backwards to hit it. The second thing to work on with the serve is to keep your head up through contact. A couple of times you could see you pull your head down and the ball, not surprisingly, went in the net.
The other things I would work on is strategy. You were playing a lefty, who, like the vast majority of left-handed players, had a stronger forehand than backhand. Yet, you hit far too many balls to his stronger side. At your level, I would start with the presumption that the opposing player's backhand is going to be the weaker shot and direct the majority of your shots there until he proves you wrong. Also, given where your opponent was tossing, he basically could only hit slice serves to your backhand. Being left-handed he can get by with that on that level. However, knowing this, on second serves, I would plan on running around a few of them and cracking a forehand.
 
HunterST

HunterST

Hall of Fame
I'm going to deviate from the others and say you could play at 4.0.

You're not the power baseline type that encourages people on here to give a high rating, but there is some smart play going on in the videos. Pretty good approach shots, not going for too much, etc.

Remember, everyone, 4.0 tennis doesn't look stellar on video.
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
sunof tennis said:
Your strokes aren't too bad. I would guesss 3.5+. I would work on your serve toss. The first one I saw was so far over your head you ended up taking two steps backwards to hit it. The second thing to work on with the serve is to keep your head up through contact. A couple of times you could see you pull your head down and the ball, not surprisingly, went in the net.
The other things I would work on is strategy. You were playing a lefty, who, like the vast majority of left-handed players, had a stronger forehand than backhand. Yet, you hit far too many balls to his stronger side. At your level, I would start with the presumption that the opposing player's backhand is going to be the weaker shot and direct the majority of your shots there until he proves you wrong. Also, given where your opponent was tossing, he basically could only hit slice serves to your backhand. Being left-handed he can get by with that on that level. However, knowing this, on second serves, I would plan on running around a few of them and cracking a forehand.
Click to expand...

Great advice! Thank you! You are totally right about hitting too often to his forehand. Great observation.

Actually, you're right about everything...thanks!
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
HunterST said:
I'm going to deviate from the others and say you could play at 4.0.

You're not the power baseline type that encourages people on here to give a high rating, but there is some smart play going on in the videos. Pretty good approach shots, not going for too much, etc.

Remember, everyone, 4.0 tennis doesn't look stellar on video.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I am not sure of where I stand in a tournament setting because I tend to do poorly against pushers and well against power hitters. I guess it just depends on my draw.

Here is some practice footage--more baseline stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ng_81GnqzQ
 
J

josofo

Semi-Pro
HunterST said:
I'm going to deviate from the others and say you could play at 4.0.

You're not the power baseline type that encourages people on here to give a high rating, but there is some smart play going on in the videos. Pretty good approach shots, not going for too much, etc.

Remember, everyone, 4.0 tennis doesn't look stellar on video.
Click to expand...


i agree with this. sometimes its just hard to tell the difference between a good 3.5 and a good 4.0 until you are on the recieving end of his shots and see how consistent he is etc. id say your opponent is easily a 4.0 based on those serve in volleys he pulled off and how he handled his easy shots. so if you consistently taking sets off him, you would be a 4.0.
 
10isfreak

10isfreak

Semi-Pro
It wasn‘t a great day... the post an other video so we can see both extremes.

I have seen 3.5‘s playing similar to that, but then who trusts the labels on yt videos? You‘re definitely not a bad player, to reassure you.
 
Moz

Moz

Hall of Fame
andrehanderson said:
Well, then I have to ask you...Dianno or Dickenson?

I saw Dianno live last year and loved it. I was always a Dickenson fan throughout my teens (in the 80's), but as I got older I grew to love the Dianno stuff (Maiden's first two albums).

I'm a lifelong metalhead and Iron Maiden was always my favorite as well.
Click to expand...

Dickinson definitely - I first saw them as a teenager on the seventh son tour. Dianno was good but somewhat limited. He's now in jail for benefit fraud!

Keep up with the tennis - it'll come back.
 
G

Gyswandir

Semi-Pro
Elbow

I'm no coach and only familiar with the USTA ranking from seeing responses on the forum. However, two things I saw kinda worry me
- on a flat serve, you put a lot of strain on your forearm as you are not dropping the left shoulder enough
- on the backhand, you delay straightening your arm and sometimes even use your wrist (flick) to add power

Those two habits can definitely result in tennis elbow and I see that you already wear some kind of elbow support. So, unless you are playing with a real soft racket (like from 90s) and strings, you are putting your elbow at risk
 
Timbo's hopeless slice

Timbo's hopeless slice

Hall of Fame
Well, I don't mind the BH, and the serve isn't that bad..

(that slice FH is hideous, though, particularly since you can clearly hit a perfectly reasonable TS one!)

anyway, I would grade you ITN 7 or maybe 6, which makes you a good 3.5 or maybe a 4.0 in NTRP
 
P

ProgressoR

Hall of Fame
just a note on the tennis elbow, I got it myself through poor form on the one handed BH which I then fixed. Your BH does use a lot of wrist and arm and I can see that causing TE and making it worse.

Just a note to be careful, TE wont go away if you dont fix the root cause.....

For me I stopped playing for a couple of months then worked hard to learn good form, and its been ok. Trust me, to play without that pain is the best feeling, do all you can to fix it, is my advice.

Best of luck
 
G

gmatheis

Hall of Fame
I think you'd be a fairly strong 3.5 or a lower 4.0

I think at 3.5 you would win most of your matches and only have real competition from people that are about to be bumped up to 4.0

So realistically your game looks 4.0 to me but with all the sandbaggers in league you might fit in at 3.5 :)
 
D

dman72

Hall of Fame
4.0 in this neck of the woods, at least the points you posted. You put away short balls pretty effeciently and hit groundstrokes farily consistently.

The guy in the blue's combination of lefty slice serve and volley touch makes him a 4.0 easily..he should just come in behind that serve to the ad court every time.
 
MisterP

MisterP

Hall of Fame
You are hitting that FH slice on approach shots when you shouldn't be, and he punishes you for it 2 out of 3 times. You get away with that one at 2:29 because you move in quickly and cover the net well and he's forced to lob you. But notice that you finish that point with a TS FH put away.

Approach, TS FH winner at 0:52
Approach, FH slice lost at 0:58
Approach, FH slice lost at 1:22
Approach, TS FH winner at 2:33
Approach, TF BH winner at 2:50

Take your opportunities on those approach shots and you could easily be a 4.0.
 
M

mhj202

Rookie
HunterST said:
I'm going to deviate from the others and say you could play at 4.0.

You're not the power baseline type that encourages people on here to give a high rating, but there is some smart play going on in the videos. Pretty good approach shots, not going for too much, etc.

Remember, everyone, 4.0 tennis doesn't look stellar on video.
Click to expand...

Totally agree-- in my view, I would say 4.0. Fairly consistent, some weapons, decent court sense and decent point construction.
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
Thank you all very much for the feedback. I'm having a couple of molars taken out today so Ill miss a week of tennis, which is a tragedy, IMO, but ill try to record more and hopefully have a better day when I do.

Regarding my partner: he is an ex-college player who has a new baby so his game is a bit off. He beat me 6-4 that day, and some days beats me 6-1 or 6-2. On days when I'm playing well and he's not, ill win 4 or 5 games in a set, but I don't think I've ever taken a full set from him. He was a 5.0 player at one time, and I think on his good days he plays like one easily.

I learned a lot from the great feedback! Thank you all!
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
ProgressoR said:
just a note on the tennis elbow, I got it myself through poor form on the one handed BH which I then fixed. Your BH does use a lot of wrist and arm and I can see that causing TE and making it worse.

Just a note to be careful, TE wont go away if you dont fix the root cause.....

For me I stopped playing for a couple of months then worked hard to learn good form, and its been ok. Trust me, to play without that pain is the best feeling, do all you can to fix it, is my advice.

Best of luck
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the concern and advice. I use an IG Prestige Mid, strung with Luxillon, so I'm pretty hard on my elbow just by equipment alone. Ill work hard to improve my technique because there is no way I can change racquets. I love my Prestige. :)

I was using an APD before this and the difference is huge.
 
HughJars

HughJars

Banned
Great control and consistency. You can play. I say at least a 3.5 pushing 4.0. All those morons who say less are probably a lot worse than you. Sure youy dont have a Roddick serve or a Del Potro forehand but they are going to the spot your aiming consistently and that matters more.
 
Last edited:
Moz

Moz

Hall of Fame
Morons? There doesn't appear to be one person on this thread who thinks he is less than a 3.5.
 
TomT

TomT

Hall of Fame
andrehanderson said:
I started off really mis-hitting a lot this morning, but later started to get my groove. It wasn't a very good day--a lot of unforced errors--but perhaps I can get an idea from you guys about my approximate rating? I'm in the red shirt.

Thanks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0J1M-O1_uI
Click to expand...
Hi Andre. First, I liked the video quality and the camera perspective. Very enjoyable to watch. Gave it a thumbs up just for that!

Re the playing. Definitely better than most of the 3.5s in my league. You would win against most of them I think. So I think you'd be at least a 3.75. I think you would hold your own, and be competitive, but probably not win against most of the 4.0s and 4.25s that I've played in my league over the past several months. Maybe a couple you would win against though. Where they have an edge, and the reason I don't think you'd win against most of the 4.0+ guys is mainly in the movement area, and also your forehand slice approaches they wouldn't have done (they all have stronger forehands than what you showed in this particular video). Although you did come over the top and place a forehand or two rather nicely as I recall.

Your over the top backhand looks outstanding to me, a weapon. Seems like you have a lot of confidence in it. I really like your form on that. Serve and forehand seem fairly solid but not weapons.

It's really difficult estimating ratings because, for one thing, it's a relative (not an absolute) reference which depends entirely on your results against other rated players ... and the average strength of players in a certain rating category in a certain region can differ from that of players in a different region.

But for my league, tennisftlauderdale.com , over the past several seasons I would guess that you'd be no less than a solid 3.75 performer, and because of your generally nice stroke mechanics I would guess that you have the potential to be successful at a higher level.

Oh, and you'd definitely beat me fairly easily, though I think I could get a few games off you. You say you were having a bad day in that vid? Well, for me that would be a pretty good day. :) That is, I'm guessing I make more errors (of all kinds) on a good day than you do on a bad day.
 
Last edited:
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
I pulled a few more points from the same session. Maybe this will give some opportunity for some additional feedback. I know one big one will be the reappearance of the dreaded forehand slice--but it's from the same session so forgive me!

http://youtu.be/ukeOXuYT_2k
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
TomT said:
Hi Andre. First, I liked the video quality and the camera perspective. Very enjoyable to watch. Gave it a thumbs up just for that!

Re the playing. Definitely better than most of the 3.5s in my league. You would win against most of them I think. So I think you'd be at least a 3.75. I think you would hold your own, and be competitive, but probably not win against most of the 4.0s and 4.25s that I've played in my league over the past several months. Maybe a couple you would win against though. Where they have an edge, and the reason I don't think you'd win against most of the 4.0+ guys is mainly in the movement area, and also your forehand slice approaches they wouldn't have done (they all have stronger forehands than what you showed in this particular video). Although you did come over the top and place a forehand or two rather nicely as I recall.

Your over the top backhand looks outstanding to me, a weapon. Seems like you have a lot of confidence in it. I really like your form on that. Serve and forehand seem fairly solid but not weapons.

It's really difficult estimating ratings because, for one thing, it's a relative (not an absolute) reference which depends entirely on your results against other rated players ... and the average strength of players in a certain rating category in a certain region can differ from that of players in a different region.

But for my league, tennisftlauderdale.com , over the past several seasons I would guess that you'd be no less than a solid 3.75 performer, and because of your generally nice stroke mechanics I would guess that you have the potential to be successful at a higher level.

Oh, and you'd definitely beat me fairly easily, though I think I could get a few games off you. You say you were having a bad day in that vid? Well, for me that would be a pretty good day. :) That is, I'm guessing I make more errors (of all kinds) on a good day than you do on a bad day.
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and reply. I really hope you and I have a chance to hit the courts together someday. It would be an honor!
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
HughJars said:
Great control and consistency. You can play. I say at least a 3.5 pushing 4.0. All those morons who say less are probably a lot worse than you. Sure youy dont have a Roddick serve or a Del Potro forehand but they are going to the spot your aiming consistently and that matters more.
Click to expand...


Thanks!! I had much bigger groundstrokes with the APD, but now I think they are fast "enough" but much more accurate with the Prestige Mid.
 
TomT

TomT

Hall of Fame
andrehanderson said:
Thanks so much for taking the time to watch and reply. I really hope you and I have a chance to hit the courts together someday. It would be an honor!
Click to expand...
You're welcome. I enjoyed the video quality and the playing. Post more stuff.

As for being an honor, well, that's very nice of you to put it that way. But I'm sure the honor would be mine, as you would undoubtedly win in any sort of match play.

Anyway, it would be fun, and I'm sure we would play at least a few points worthy of a highlight vid. :)
 
V

VeeSe

Rookie
Looks like a solid, above average 3.5 to me. In my area, you'd probably win 80% of your 3.5 matches and maybe could play some 4.0.
 
Cheetah

Cheetah

Hall of Fame
3.5. not bad.

OP, I recommend watching / studying some footwork videos or pay attention to the pro's footwork more when you watch tennis.

Your footwork is, to put it politely, not good. You lose and will lose a lot of points because of poor movement. You more often than not arrive at the ball off balance and in incorrect position to properly strike the ball even tho you had enough time to prepare. You run like a baseball/american football player.

Learn a proper split step. The first step is the most important. A good first step will save you 1 to 3 steps which is huge. Then learn 2 footwork patterns such as the crossover and the shuffle. That's all you'll need to know to get you much further. Without them you are a sitting duck to anyone who knows how to move.

Also, carry the racquet in both hands when you run (unless it's a full out sprint). It's easier, faster, keeps you in balance better and aids in quicker racquet prep. Plus you look like a caveman running like that.

Your goal should be to get to the strike area BEFORE the ball, not getting there the same time as the ball. You can do this with better footwork. It doesn't have to be 'faster'..., just better.

...all said in order to help improve your game.
 
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TomT

TomT

Hall of Fame
andrehanderson said:
I pulled a few more points from the same session. Maybe this will give some opportunity for some additional feedback. I know one big one will be the reappearance of the dreaded forehand slice--but it's from the same session so forgive me!

http://youtu.be/ukeOXuYT_2k
Click to expand...
Well, the first forehand slice was for a winner and it was all you needed to do. I saw some nice backhands as usual, a solid serve, and, yeah, a few weak forehand slicers. Again, it was enjoyable to watch. Very nice video quality and camera placement. Keep practicing and playing and post more stuff. :)
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
Cheetah said:
3.5. not bad.

OP, I recommend watching / studying some footwork videos or pay attention to the pro's footwork more when you watch tennis.

Your footwork is, to put it politely, not good. You lose and will lose a lot of points because of poor movement. You more often than not arrive at the ball off balance and in incorrect position to properly strike the ball even tho you had enough time to prepare. You run like a baseball/american football player.

Learn a proper split step. The first step is the most important. A good first step will save you 1 to 3 steps which is huge. Then learn 2 footwork patterns such as the crossover and the shuffle. That's all you'll need to know to get you much further. Without them you are a sitting duck to anyone who knows how to move.

Also, carry the racquet in both hands when you run (unless it's a full out sprint). It's easier, faster, keeps you in balance better and aids in quicker racquet prep. Plus you look like a caveman running like that.

Your goal should be to get to the strike area BEFORE the ball, not getting there the same time as the ball. You can do this with better footwork. It doesn't have to be 'faster'..., just better.

...all said in order to help improve your game.
Click to expand...

Excellent advice! Thank you very much! I will seek out some youtube videos for help. If you happen to see any that you think will help, please pass them along.

I think a big part of my problem, besides not using proper footwork (which is huge), is that I'm about 25 pounds overweight.

I used to be great at gaining or losing weight as needed, but I seem to have forgotten how (and getting older hasn't helped). Any advice in that regard would be really appreciated as well. Thanks!
 
andrehanderson

andrehanderson

Professional
RockChalkOhio said:
Good solid 3.5 and not far from 4.0 once the serve and stroked get firmer.
Click to expand...

Thanks! The easy part is the serve. I have extremely bad tennis elbow right now and it hurts most on backhands when I'm late and on serve, so I find myself serving just to get the ball in. I would say that my normal serve is about 30% better...still a long way from being a good serve, but I do win a lot of points off of it.
 
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