More PED Allegations

veroniquem · Jul 26, 2013

Clarky21 said:
Name one time Cvac ever showed the stamina and endurance he has been showing since he showed up a different person in 2011? .

Djoko has the 2nd best 5th set record after Rafa among active players and that's careerwise, not since 2011. 5 setters Djoko won before 2011:
- vs Monfils: USO 2005 (7-5 in the 5th set)
- vs Garcia-Lopez: W 2005 (6-4 in last set)
- vs Wawrinka: DC 2006 (6-4 in last set)
- vs Gonzalez: RG 2006 (6-1 in last set)
- vs Stepanek: USO 2007 (7-6 in last set)
- vs Baghdatis: W 2007 (7-5 in last set)
- vs Patience: RG 2007 (6-3 in last set)
- vs Robredo: USO 2008 (6-3)
- vs Troicki: USO 2010 (6-3)
- vs Rochus: W 2010 (6-2)
- vs Isner: DC 2010 (6-4)
- vs Federer: USO 2010 (7-5)

Djoko has never retired in a 5th set. His health issues were with allergy and breathing, never with stamina.

Bartelby · Jul 26, 2013

Yes, I'm always sinister, I confess, but seriously look at this dog's breakfast of a definition of troll:

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

THE FIGHTER said:
something a troll would say. very suspicious...

BreakPoint · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
Once again, this is a Miami scandal. Haas is based in Miami, not Djoko and yes I find Haas's sudden monster level and stamina at the age of 35 a bit surprising for lack of a better word.

Again, Haas's "monster level" is not sudden. He's always had it. He's just matured in his 30's and doesn't mentally berate himself on court like he used to, he controls his emotions much better now than he used to.

BTW, you do realize that stamina increases in your 30's don't you? Most of the best triathletes are in their 30's. When I was a teenager and in my 20's, I couldn't even run a mile without being totally exhausted and usually couldn't even make a mile. In my 30's, I had no problem running 4-5 miles.

veroniquem · Jul 26, 2013

BreakPoint said:
Um...doesn't Djokovic have the career Slam in quitting during Slam matches due to lack of endurance? .

No he doesn't. He's never retired at USO (but his opponents have retired 3 times against him in the last 2 years

). His retirements never had anything to do with physical endurance but with breathing issues (which is why most of them happened on clay).

veroniquem · Jul 26, 2013

BreakPoint said:
Again, Haas's "monster level" is not sudden. He's always had it. He's just matured in his 30's and doesn't mentally berate himself on court like he used to, he controls his emotions much better now than he used to.

BTW, you do realize that stamina increases in your 30's don't you? Most of the best triathletes are in their 30's. When I was a teenager and in my 20's, I couldn't even run a mile without being totally exhausted and usually couldn't even make a mile. In my 30's, I had no problem running 4-5 miles.

That has never been verified in tennis, no. Players usually don't have their best results at 35. He's always had it? No kidding? 2013 was the first time ever Haas reached the quarter at RG. Last time he reached R16 was in 2009. (He'd also lost in the 1st round of W since 2009). Hey it could just be intense training but...one has a right to wonder since we know for a fact that tennis players are involved (Miami based tennis players).

clayqueen · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
Djoko has never retired in a 5th set. His health issues were with allergy and breathing, never with stamina.

Players don't retire saying they haven't got the stamina to continue. They always site health reasons.

veroniquem · Jul 26, 2013

clayqueen said:
Players don't retire saying they haven't got the stamina to continue. They always site health reasons.

Whatever he "cites", he's always had an excellent record in 5 setters, which proves his problem was neither stamina nor endurance.

THE FIGHTER · Jul 26, 2013

Bartelby said:
Yes, I'm always sinister, I confess, but seriously look at this dog's breakfast of a definition of troll:

In Internet slang, a troll (/ˈtroʊl/, /ˈtrɒl/) is a person who sows discord on the Internet by starting arguments or upsetting people,[1] by posting inflammatory,[2] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a forum, chat room, or blog), either accidentally[3][4] or with the deliberate intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[5] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[6]

obviously these are new age trolls. they just dont stack up to the strong field of trolls we've had in the past. the donald youngs, bernard tomics, and milos raonics of trolls.

BreakPoint · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
That has never been verified in tennis, no. Players usually don't have their best results at 35. He's always had it? No kidding? 2013 was the first time ever Haas reached the quarter at RG. Last time he reached R16 was in 2009. (He'd also lost in the 1st round of W since 2009). Hey it could just be intense training but...one has a right to wonder since we know for a fact that tennis players are involved (Miami based tennis players).

Haas is not having his best results at age 35. If he was, he'd be at least #2 in the world again, but he's not currently even in the Top 10.

monfed · Jul 26, 2013

Gym boy has done well to keep his unending energy level as seen in AO 09 under wraps.

Deleted member 21996 · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
That has never been verified in tennis, no. Players usually don't have their best results at 35. He's always had it? No kidding? 2013 was the first time ever Haas reached the quarter at RG. Last time he reached R16 was in 2009. (He'd also lost in the 1st round of W since 2009). Hey it could just be intense training but...one has a right to wonder since we know for a fact that tennis players are involved (Miami based tennis players).

Say hello to my good friend Fuentes!

Bartelby · Jul 26, 2013

Fuentes practised his trade in a legal system that did not punish his activities and this was and is not uncommon.

roberttennis54 · Jul 26, 2013

I like Tommy Haas. Nice game, bad temper interesting to watch, but though he is no where near his best, his performances at 35 are a bit odd. He has had many injuries and not so much mileage, but there is reason for suspicion.

However, Haas is hardly the most suspicious player on the tour, though he is one of the most likely to be connected with an american clinic.

Chico · Jul 26, 2013

BreakPoint said:
Um...doesn't Djokovic have the career Slam in quitting during Slam matches due to lack of endurance? He even quit in the middle of a live critical Davis Cup match.

Haas has never had stamina problems. He's always been fit as a fiddle. Not true with Djokovic. Anyone who denies there's been a night and day difference with Djokovic's endurance during his career is either delusional or a blind fanboy. No way he would have lasted 6 hours against Nadal in the heat of Australia if it was 2009.

What you are saying is simply not true. He never had endurance problems. He had other problems, like with allergies. He had many long hard matches before 2011. Also he had more retirements in 2011 than in 2010.

Many other players' breakthrough years are not really different (say McEnroe 1981, Wilander 1988, Sampras 1933, Federer 2004, Djokovic 2011).

All these false allegations have been disproved many times here, but you people keep repeating lies, hoping to make them truth. Sorry, but it does not work that way.

RF_fan · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
The reason I mentioned Haas is because he trains in Miami. Same for Murray who bought an apartment there.
This particular thread is about a Miami based scandal. Not particularly relevant to either Nadal or Djoko. Let's stay on topic here.
I don't see any logic into tying people together due to nationality. Did Agassi messing up with crystal meth mean Sampras did the same? Did the Gasquet incident mean Tsonga surely is a coke fiend? Makes 0 sense to me, sorry.

What makes you think there are no more of these clinics around the world? Where there is demand, suppliers will come.

Deleted member 3771 · Jul 26, 2013

Feds back pain could be caused by long term ped usage or ped withdrawal.

Mainad · Jul 26, 2013

veroniquem said:
That has never been verified in tennis, no. Players usually don't have their best results at 35. He's always had it? No kidding? 2013 was the first time ever Haas reached the quarter at RG. Last time he reached R16 was in 2009. (He'd also lost in the 1st round of W since 2009). Hey it could just be intense training but...one has a right to wonder since we know for a fact that tennis players are involved (Miami based tennis players).

I didn't notice the article stating that the offenders were all Miami-based. It's perfectly possible that many of them came from outside the area. If this clinic had a well-established reputation amongst those sports people inclined to dope then they may well come from far and wide, not just Florida.

ivan_the_terrible · Jul 26, 2013

TheNatural said:
Feds back pain could be caused by long term ped usage or ped withdrawal.

Very true, his endurance, powerful serve and fitness over his career has been nothing short of incredible. I'm surprised his PED usage has manifested itself in this way though. I would've expected lower body issues due to the amount of HC tournaments he's played.

LaneMyer · Jul 26, 2013

TheNatural said:
Feds back pain could be caused by long term ped usage or ped withdrawal.

back pain isn't a byproduct of PED usage. Knee injuries from carrying unnatural weight, quad tears/strains, oblique strains, increased risk of tendinitis, tendon ruptures and joint pain, palpitations, Cardiomyopathy, Acromegaly (enlarged jaw, brow, skull, hands and feet), and increased dehydration from those that are abusing designer PEDs like HGH are the traditional indicators. I'm talking about visible effects here, and those from designer PEDs, not anabolic. I suspect if Fed is/were on anything it's likely only an EPO type endurance substance. Overt sweating is also a function of HGH use and dude doesn't sweat. His frame is too thin for even low-dose lean muscle builders and he has never really shown indicators of the other byproducts with his injury history. Synthetic testosterone is more difficult to peg visually and has some of the effects of anabolic PEDs and can lead to reduced fertility and birth defects. I think Fed is clear in that department. Most of it's byproducts will be high blood pressure, reduction of good cholesterol levels, and heart disease. It can also cause prostate enlargement, acne, greasy or yellowing skin, and edema (swelling of feet and ankles).

LaneMyer · Jul 26, 2013

Mainad said:
I didn't notice the article stating that the offenders were all Miami-based. It's perfectly possible that many of them came from outside the area. If this clinic had a well-established reputation amongst those sports people inclined to dope then they may well come from far and wide, not just Florida.

Biogenesis was a small hole in the wall operation and if you look at the list of the names released of baseball players, they were either Latin American players that live in Miami in the off-season, or had ties to the University of Miami. I'll be surprised if the list produces more than a couple tennis players although perhaps it could be a big name or two considering one top 2 male player and 2 top 5 female players live in Miami (at least part of the year).

DeShaun · Jul 26, 2013

LaneMyer said:
back pain isn't a byproduct of PED usage. Knee injuries from carrying unnatural weight, quad tears/strains, oblique strains, increased risk of tendinitis, tendon ruptures and joint pain, palpitations, Cardiomyopathy, Acromegaly (enlarged jaw, brow, skull, hands and feet), and increased dehydration from those that are abusing designer PEDs like HGH are the traditional indicators. I'm talking about visible effects here, and those from designer PEDs, not anabolic. I suspect if Fed is/were on anything it's likely only an EPO type endurance substance. Overt sweating is also a function of HGH use and dude doesn't sweat. His frame is too thin for even low-dose lean muscle builders and he has never really shown indicators of the other byproducts with his injury history. Synthetic testosterone is more difficult to peg visually and has some of the effects of anabolic PEDs and can lead to reduced fertility and birth defects. I think Fed is clear in that department. Most of it's byproducts will be high blood pressure, reduction of good cholesterol levels, and heart disease. It can also cause prostate enlargement, acne, greasy or yellowing skin, and edema (swelling of feet and ankles).

When you woke up today, did you make it your mission to enfeeble an utterly speculative flamer by subjecting him to concrete information?

Federer20042006 · Jul 26, 2013

Steroid taking is associated with back problems, I believe.

I still say Federer's guilty, less-than-enthusiastic looks last year were the result of guilt over PED use, and the silver lining in that is it implies he was clean during the years he dominated tennis.

That said, it's kind of hard to believe he was clean in 04-06, given how ridiculous he was those years.

LaneMyer · Jul 26, 2013

Federer20042006 said:
Steroid taking is associated with back problems, I believe.

I still say Federer's guilty, less-than-enthusiastic looks last year were the result of guilt over PED use, and the silver lining in that is it implies he was clean during the years he dominated tennis.

That said, it's kind of hard to believe he was clean in 04-06, given how ridiculous he was those years.

The only PED or stimulant that I've ever seen that has direct ties to back pain is Modafinil (Provigil) which is a stimulant commonly prescribed for sleeping disorders - narcolepsy, sleep apnea etc and back pain is a possible side effect along with about ten other symptoms. If Fed were looking for an edge in the stimulant dept I would suspect he'd head for Adderall before this particular drug.

LotusTang · Jul 28, 2013

In regards to the bio-genesis scandal, so now what? Should one cast a side eye at other American players (since apparently Odesnik is said to be involved) or other players that train in Miami?

salsainglesa · Jul 29, 2013

Well, let me take a guess, a wild one, but maybe... there are more "clinics" like biogenesis!!!

I don't know... could that be true?!

THUNDERVOLLEY · Jul 29, 2013

The general pattern of "doping" threads"

1. Name just about every player, but push the charges in the direction of Nadal and Djokovic. Murray recieves litte attention.

2. Of all top players, one is spared finger pointing more than others.

Telling.

Bartelby · Jul 29, 2013

All those continentals wear too much hair gel so they're clearly too slick for their own good.

LotusTang · Jul 29, 2013

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
The general pattern of "doping" threads"

1. Name just about every player, but push the charges in the direction of Nadal and Djokovic. Murray recieves litte attention.

Here:

LotusTang said:
In regards to the bio-genesis scandal, so now what? Should one cast a side eye at other American players (since apparently Odesnik is said to be involved) or other players that train in Miami?

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
2. Of all top players, one is spared finger pointing more than others.
Telling.

Maybe it's because there is more circumstantial evidence (or incidents) surrounding other players. Note that I'm not saying anyone is above suspicion just that some players are clearly more suspicious than others.

objectivity · Jul 29, 2013

i think its important to remember that the purpose of PED started as basically to improve explosive strength. hence the sports that really pioneered use of PED are the likes of track and field (especially sprinting) and swimming. cycling, distance running and other endurance sports are very recent additions to the list relatively.

why is this important? because if suspicion is to be raised in tennis, then i think its probably more plausible that certain players with extraordinary power are PED abusers than players who rely on craft and point construction.

federer has a more powerful forehand than nadal, no?

the green god · Jul 29, 2013

objectivity said:
i think its important to remember that the purpose of PED started as basically to improve explosive strength. hence the sports that really pioneered use of PED are the likes of track and field (especially sprinting) and swimming. cycling, distance running and other endurance sports are very recent additions to the list relatively.

why is this important? because if suspicion is to be raised in tennis, then i think its probably more plausible that certain players with extraordinary power are PED abusers than players who rely on craft and point construction.

federer has a more powerful forehand than nadal, no?

Man up, quit hiding.

mellowyellow · Jul 29, 2013

objectivity said:
i think its important to remember that the purpose of PED started as basically to improve explosive strength. hence the sports that really pioneered use of PED are the likes of track and field (especially sprinting) and swimming. cycling, distance running and other endurance sports are very recent additions to the list relatively.

why is this important? because if suspicion is to be raised in tennis, then i think its probably more plausible that certain players with extraordinary power are PED abusers than players who rely on craft and point construction.

federer has a more powerful forehand than nadal, no?

To my knowledge cycling was evident in the early 80's. Is 30+ years, probably longer, recent to you?

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