Whats your top 10 of all time right now?

Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
I do find his story interesting, as far as the pure tennis side is concern. There have been many fascinating individuals in tennis history. Tilden is definitely up there with anyone.

Phoenix, in looking at tennis history do you have any players in the past you find fascinating. I don't necessarily mean just the tennis but the overall story.
Click to expand...

There are quite a few. I think that the players of yesteryear generally led much more fascinating lives than the players of today - because today's players live the lives of conditioned, financially secure sportspeople from a young age.

Some names I've read about who had very interesting lives:

Gottfried von Cramm
Pancho Gonzales
Budge Patty
Art Larsen
Ilie Nastase

Von Cramm's story probably interested and impressed me the most from the human perspective. Here was a guy who the Nazis tried to use as a poster boy for the Aryan ideal, but instead he showed great dignity and humanity in respecting all his opponents (despite being born into the nobility). I believe he was eventually banned from competing by the Nazis and was imprisoned during WWII. If I recall correctly, he may also have been bisexual, which was another reason for his persecution.

His life after the war was of course better, but he still died tragically in a car crash when not that old.
 
A

ARFED

Professional
kiki said:
If Safin had seen Hoad play he would remain astonished
Hoad could forget more tennis than Safin would ever learn
Those young fans are really clueless about past legends
Many still will hold that Gonzales was an old version of Issner or Karlovic:)
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Kiki, be honest would you? Hoy many times did you watch Hoad play? :)
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
There are quite a few. I think that the players of yesteryear generally led much more fascinating lives than the players of today - because today's players live the lives of conditioned, financially secure sportspeople from a young age.

Some names I've read about who had very interesting lives:

Gottfried von Cramm
Pancho Gonzales
Budge Patty
Art Larsen
Ilie Nastase

Von Cramm's story probably interested and impressed me the most from the human perspective. Here was a guy who the Nazis tried to use as a poster boy for the Aryan ideal, but instead he showed great dignity and humanity in respecting all his opponents (despite being born into the nobility). I believe he was eventually banned from competing by the Nazis and was imprisoned during WWII. If I recall correctly, he may also have been bisexual, which was another reason for his persecution.

His life after the war was of course better, but he still died tragically in a car crash when not that old.
Click to expand...

Great choices. Von Cramm's story is fascinating. You should read "A Terrible Splendor by Marchall Jon Fisher." I have the book but haven't read it yet. I understand it's wonderful.

By the way some people think Larsen may have the best lefty backhand of all time. That's something considering Laver, Connors, McEnroe are around.
 
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kiki

kiki

Banned
Drobny was born in Czeckoslovakia, lived in Egypt many years and moved to the UK for political reasons as many eastern bloc sportsmen did in the late 40´s and early 50´s.

His legendary drop shots and his tormented past made him one of the most popular players of his time.And, very likely, the most popular player ever at Wimbledon.A great honour by all means.
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
ARFED said:
Yes like 30 minutes of actual match play, Be serious Kiki, you are talking of the guy as if you have watched 50 matches of him
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I believe Kiki built a time machine out of an old Delorean a few years ago. Unfortunately Kiki by accident prevented his parents from falling in love until he fixed it up later.

In the meantime Kiki was able to watch Hoad in his prime. Hoad eventually called Kiki by the name of Doc Brown.
 
A

ARFED

Professional
kiki said:
Drobny was born in Czeckoslovakia, lived in Egypt many years and moved to the UK for political reasons as many eastern bloc sportsmen did in the late 40´s and early 50´s.

His legendary drop shots and his tormented past made him one of the most popular players of his time.And, very likely, the most popular player ever at Wimbledon.A great honour by all means.
Click to expand...

I know that you are going to hate this...:) but the most popular player ever at Wimbledon is you know who and it is not even close, not even Borg comes close. Just being able to pretty much have the same support as Murray in a Wimby final or at the O2, shows how far ahead of everyone else this guy is in Britain in terms of popularity, at least regarding foreign players.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Drobny was born in Czeckoslovakia, lived in Egypt many years and moved to the UK for political reasons as many eastern bloc sportsmen did in the late 40´s and early 50´s.

His legendary drop shots and his tormented past made him one of the most popular players of his time.And, very likely, the most popular player ever at Wimbledon.A great honour by all means.
Click to expand...

kiki, I think that generally Rosewall was the most popular player at Wimbledon, at least from 1968 to 1975.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
ARFED said:
I know that you are going to hate this...:) but the most popular player ever at Wimbledon is you know who and it is not even close, not even Borg comes close. Just being able to pretty much have the same support as Murray in a Wimby final or at the O2, shows how far ahead of everyone else this guy is in Britain in terms of popularity, at least regarding foreign players.
Click to expand...

Do yourself a favour
Post in the GPD section, you are completely out of place here
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Ask any of the great Wimbledon broadcasters of the tourney about Drobny
And yes, Rosewall was just as popular there as Borg
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
American posters, no matter how much read about past players know little about European players as we can see here every day
European posters know more about US players
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Drobny was born in Czeckoslovakia, lived in Egypt many years and moved to the UK for political reasons as many eastern bloc sportsmen did in the late 40´s and early 50´s.

His legendary drop shots and his tormented past made him one of the most popular players of his time.And, very likely, the most popular player ever at Wimbledon.A great honour by all means.
Click to expand...

Drobny as you say moved to the UK, and eventually gained British citizenship - indeed, the last time he played at Wimbledon in 1960, he was officially British.

Of course, he was not British when winning Wimbledon in 1954 (as you say, he represented Egypt then).

However, if you phrased the statement in a certain way, you could claim that the last man who represented Britain and won the men's Wimbledon singles title before Andy Murray was not in fact Fred Perry, but was Jaroslav Drobny!
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Ask any of the great Wimbledon broadcasters of the tourney about Drobny
And yes, Rosewall was just as popular there as Borg
Click to expand...

Why the hell was Rosewall popular?

I've never heard that before. I thought Laver was more beloved. He certainly is nowadays.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Phoenix1983 said:
Drobny as you say moved to the UK, and eventually gained British citizenship - indeed, the last time he played at Wimbledon in 1960, he was officially British.

Of course, he was not British when winning Wimbledon in 1954 (as you say, he represented Egypt then).

However, if you phrased the statement in a certain way, you could claim that the last man who represented Britain and won the men's Wimbledon singles title before Andy Murray was not in fact Fred Perry, but was Jaroslav Drobny!
Click to expand...

Good contribution Phoenix 83
YES Amazing life
And 1954 was possibly one of the few times the Queen gave the trophies
If she did not she'd be in trouble
60 million brittle were behind Jaro
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
It is linked to how many times old Ken tried and failed to win W
I think it has much to see with British fans having supported Drobny so much in the 54 final against Rosewall and then, feeling that they owed that support to Ken, specially when he was an oldie, like Drobny had been in that famous final
Like they saw in Rosewall a replay of Jaroslav story
Emotionally I see a blatant clear sequence:
Drobny-Rosewall-Connors
You know, English crowds, in spite of what most believe are very sentimental
 
pc1

pc1

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
Why the hell was Rosewall popular?

I've never heard that before. I thought Laver was more beloved. He certainly is nowadays.
Click to expand...

I think was a combination of things. Obviously they wanted him to win there because he never won the tournament but aside from that I think it's because he was a very elegant stylist and player with a great looking backhand. I think his relatively small stature also helped in that it was like David versus Goliath. Ironically though Rosewall was in actuality the Goliath and most of his opponent was really David.

I've read stuff about Rosewall in the newspapers like "The crowd was trying to will Rosewall on."

He was a great player and people tend to appreciate greats.

In Rosewall's first Wimbledon final they rooted for Drobny because he was a great who never won the tournament. They figured Rosewall would win it later.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
I envy you in that your country appreciates tennis more than mine.
Click to expand...

Well, it's interesting you should say that, because in the UK, tennis is only appreciated by a large proportion of the public during the Queens/Wimbledon period in the summer. For most of the year, football (soccer) reigns supreme, with rugby and cricket also much more widely popular than tennis.

Obviously there are some year-round fans and very knowledgeable commentators, but I wouldn't actually say tennis is as popular as it 'should' be in this country (even after Murray's victory last year, it's not as if loads of youngsters are aspiring to be the next British Wimbledon champion).

Maybe the situation is even worse in the States though, I don't know. Certainly I know that there has been a decline in tennis vs. the main team sports in recent years on that side of the pond.
 
President

President

Legend
Phoenix1983 said:
Well, it's interesting you should say that, because in the UK, tennis is only appreciated by a large proportion of the public during the Queens/Wimbledon period in the summer. For most of the year, football (soccer) reigns supreme, with rugby and cricket also much more widely popular than tennis.

Obviously there are some year-round fans and very knowledgeable commentators, but I wouldn't actually say tennis is as popular as it 'should' be in this country (even after Murray's victory last year, it's not as if loads of youngsters are aspiring to be the next British Wimbledon champion).

Maybe the situation is even worse in the States though, I don't know. Certainly I know that there has been a decline in tennis vs. the main team sports in recent years on that side of the pond.
Click to expand...

At least there is a time of the year where a large portion of the British population tunes into tennis. We probably haven't had anything even close to that since the 80's.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
Why the hell was Rosewall popular?

I've never heard that before. I thought Laver was more beloved. He certainly is nowadays.
Click to expand...

1983, Your hate against Rosewall and me is so great that you even refuse to accept facts and history! Ask any expert and they will confirm that Muscles was the most popular player at Wimbledon, at Paris, in Asia.

It's irrelevant what you heard or not heard. Learn history!

Rosewall was the Wimbledon's crowd's darling, even more than Laver.

I wanted to inform you even though you are on my ignore list. It just hurts me that you belittle Rosewall even regarding fields where he is tops (backhand, backhand volley, return, touch, popularity)...
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
I think was a combination of things. Obviously they wanted him to win there because he never won the tournament but aside from that I think it's because he was a very elegant stylist and player with a great looking backhand. I think his relatively small stature also helped in that it was like David versus Goliath. Ironically though Rosewall was in actuality the Goliath and most of his opponent was really David.

I've read stuff about Rosewall in the newspapers like "The crowd was trying to will Rosewall on."

He was a great player and people tend to appreciate greats.

In Rosewall's first Wimbledon final they rooted for Drobny because he was a great who never won the tournament. They figured Rosewall would win it later.
Click to expand...

pc1, Excellent analysis, as so often.
 
D

Dan L

Professional
pc1 said:
World Champion in ice hockey for the Czechs I believe.
Click to expand...

Drobny had an incredible career.

In 1938 at age 16 , nearly beat Budge in the Czechoslovak final.

In 1946, won a great marathon at Wimbledon against Kramer.
This win convinced him to make tennis, rather than hockey, his principal sport.

In 1958, defeated 20-year-old Laver at centre court at Wimbledon in straight sets.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
I think was a combination of things. Obviously they wanted him to win there because he never won the tournament but aside from that I think it's because he was a very elegant stylist and player with a great looking backhand. I think his relatively small stature also helped in that it was like David versus Goliath. Ironically though Rosewall was in actuality the Goliath and most of his opponent was really David.

I've read stuff about Rosewall in the newspapers like "The crowd was trying to will Rosewall on."

He was a great player and people tend to appreciate greats.

In Rosewall's first Wimbledon final they rooted for Drobny because he was a great who never won the tournament. They figured Rosewall would win it later.
Click to expand...

I understand.

I wonder if his obituary writers will mention his great popularity?
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
Phoenix
If somebody with a brain loves this game, regardless of sex,condition,language or tastes he must love watching Rosewall play
As I told you I have seen him live and any praise he gets is well deserved
Bobbyone is a stubborn fart, but he is right on loving Rosewall
His mistake is IMHO strategic
Instead of pointing out what made Rosewall a player of his own class, he reverts to statistics, quotes and misscelania
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
pc1 said:
Honestly Phoenix, don't do it? Please. I do respect Rosewall and he deserves better.

I feel a great sense of deja vu somehow.
Click to expand...

What's the problem? I'm not going to cause his death by writing about his obituary. :shock:

You people need to chill out.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
NatF said:
Not the obituary stuff again :lol:

You do it to wind up Bobby don't you? Admit it...
Click to expand...

NatF, Yes 1983 has two idees fixe: Rosewall's "failure" at Wimbledon and Rosewall's obituary. The first to blame Muscles and the second to annoy me...
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
Phoenix
If somebody with a brain loves this game, regardless of sex,condition,language or tastes he must love watching Rosewall play
As I told you I have seen him live and any praise he gets is well deserved
Bobbyone is a stubborn fart, but he is right on loving Rosewall
His mistake is IMHO strategic
Instead of pointing out what made Rosewall a player of his own class, he reverts to statistics, quotes and misscelania
Click to expand...

kiki, I have not called you Fraser fart...

Statistics are the best proof of a player's greatness. Muscles keeps a record second to no-one.

It's not just watching Rosewall play. It's also his status as GOAT candidate and totally under-rated player (under-rated like Nüsslein, Kovacs, Segura, Gimeno, Roche...).

I have already written what Rosewall made unique.
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
Phoenix1983 said:
What's the problem? I'm not going to cause his death by writing about his obituary. :shock:

You people need to chill out.
Click to expand...

The problem, 1722, is that you never learnt to communicate in a proper way. Why do you post in a serious forum if you consider your contributions only as a play or game as you once revealed??? Write in a forum about obituaries and idees fixe!!
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
kiki, I have not called you Fraser fart...

Statistics are the best proof of a player's greatness. Muscles keeps a record second to no-one.

It's not just watching Rosewall play. It's also his status as GOAT candidate and totally under-rated player (under-rated like Nüsslein, Kovacs, Segura, Gimeno, Roche...).

I have already written what Rosewall made unique.
Click to expand...

So you place Rosewall at the level of Gimeno and Kovacs?

Relax a bit, fart is a coloquial use and normal for omebody aged 99:)
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
The problem, 1722, is that you never learnt to communicate in a proper way. Why do you post in a serious forum if you consider your contributions only as a play or game as you once revealed??? Write in a forum about obituaries and idees fixe!!
Click to expand...

hahaha

1983 would make a great journalist at obituary pages in any paper¡¡
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
hahaha

1983 would make a great journalist at obituary pages in any paper¡¡
Click to expand...

If I were an obituary writer, I would treat my subjects with the respect they deserve, but I would not write hagiographies.

For Rosewall, I would state that he is among the greatest of all time.

For Segura, an underappreciated great of the 1950s.

For Roche and Gimeno, winners of a single major.

For Federer, the GOAT.
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
OK my final saying is, per decade:

BEST PLAYER
second best

MO= Most overrated
MU= Most underrated

1900-1920
WILDING
Doherty
MO:Richards
MU:Brookes

1920-1929
TILDEN
Cochet
MO=Johnston
MU=Borotra

1930-1939
BUDGE
Perry
MO=Vines
MU=Crawford

1940-1949
KRAMER
Riggs
MO=Kovacs
MU=Parker

1950-59
GONZALES
Hoad
MO=Segura
MU=Olmedo ( the guy had a record that Segura can only dream at and would take him several lifes to achieve it)

1960-69
LAVER
Rosewall
MO=Roche ( a one timer winner and five timer loser)
MU=Fraser ( owned Laver at TWO major finals)

1970-79
BORG
Connors
MO=Ashe ( nothing against him but one had to be the MO and I think his character influence many when record judgement is involved)
MU=Kodes

1980-1989
Ex Acqueo LENDL & MC ENROE
Wilander
MO=Cash ( bad perfs on carpet and clay)
MU=Gomez

1990-1999
SAMPRAS
Agassi
MO=Rios ( and it´s not even close)
MU=Kafelnikov/Stich

2000-2014
FEDERER
Nadal
MO=Roddick
MU=maybe Johansson?

Need another proof of 70 s superiority?

easy: I found almost impossible to pick an OVERRATED PLAYER.There is none, which shows how tough guys were back then atop.I mentioned Ashe because I had to name somebody anyway, and he lacked some consistent results for some slots of time but, talent wise and major records wise he is by no means OVERRATED
 
Last edited:
hoodjem

hoodjem

G.O.A.T.
Right Now--

1 Rafael NADAL 12900
2 Novak DJOKOVIC 11030
3 Stan WAWRINKA 5785
4 Roger FEDERER 5715
5 David FERRER 5030
6 Tomas BERDYCH 4600
7 Juan Martin DEL POTRO 4215
8 Andy MURRAY 3950
9 Kei NISHIKORI 2860
10 Milos RAONIC 2625
 
B

BobbyOne

G.O.A.T.
kiki said:
OK my final saying is, per decade:

BEST PLAYER
second best

MO= Most overrated
MU= Most underrated

1900-1920
WILDING
Doherty
MO:Richards
MU:Brookes

1920-1929
TILDEN
Cochet
MO=Johnston
MU=Borotra

1930-1939
BUDGE
Perry
MO=Vines
MU=Crawford

1940-1949
KRAMER
Riggs
MO=Kovacs
MU=Parker

1950-59
GONZALES
Hoad
MO=Segura
MU=Olmedo ( the guy had a record that Segura can only dream at and would take him several lifes to achieve it)

1960-69
LAVER
Rosewall
MO=Roche ( a one timer winner and five timer loser)
MU=Fraser ( owned Laver at TWO major finals)

1970-79
BORG
Connors
MO=Ashe ( nothing against him but one had to be the MO and I think his character influence many when record judgement is involved)
MU=Kodes

1980-1989
Ex Acqueo LENDL & MC ENROE
Wilander
MO=Cash ( bad perfs on carpet and clay)
MU=Gomez

1990-1999
SAMPRAS
Agassi
MO=Rios ( and it´s not even close)
MU=Kafelnikov/Stich

2000-2014
FEDERER
Nadal
MO=Roddick
MU=maybe Johansson?

Need another proof of 70 s superiority?

easy: I found almost impossible to pick an OVERRATED PLAYER.There is none, which shows how tough guys were back then atop.I mentioned Ashe because I had to name somebody anyway, and he lacked some consistent results for some slots of time but, talent wise and major records wise he is by no means OVERRATED
Click to expand...

kiki, the chief ignoramus.

Vines is under-rated. He dominated Perry.

Kovacs is totally under-rated. Your choice is crazy!

Segura is under-rated. He was three classes better than your darling, Olmedo!

Roche is under-rated. Fraser is overrated. Fraser would have lost every match to Roche...
 
kiki

kiki

Banned
BobbyOne said:
kiki, the chief ignoramus.

Vines is under-rated. He dominated Perry.

Kovacs is totally under-rated. Your choice is crazy!

Segura is under-rated. He was three classes better than your darling, Olmedo!

Roche is under-rated. Fraser is overrated. Fraser would have lost every match to Roche...
Click to expand...

If Fraser painted his hair red ( like Laver), Roche´d be scared:)
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
kiki said:
OK my final saying is, per decade:

BEST PLAYER
second best

MO= Most overrated
MU= Most underrated

1900-1920
WILDING
Doherty
MO:Richards
MU:Brookes

1920-1929
TILDEN
Cochet
MO=Johnston
MU=Borotra

1930-1939
BUDGE
Perry
MO=Vines
MU=Crawford

1940-1949
KRAMER
Riggs
MO=Kovacs
MU=Parker

1950-59
GONZALES
Hoad
MO=Segura
MU=Olmedo ( the guy had a record that Segura can only dream at and would take him several lifes to achieve it)

1960-69
LAVER
Rosewall
MO=Roche ( a one timer winner and five timer loser)
MU=Fraser ( owned Laver at TWO major finals)

1970-79
BORG
Connors
MO=Ashe ( nothing against him but one had to be the MO and I think his character influence many when record judgement is involved)
MU=Kodes

1980-1989
Ex Acqueo LENDL & MC ENROE
Wilander
MO=Cash ( bad perfs on carpet and clay)
MU=Gomez

1990-1999
SAMPRAS
Agassi
MO=Rios ( and it´s not even close)
MU=Kafelnikov/Stich

2000-2014
FEDERER
Nadal
MO=Roddick
MU=maybe Johansson?

Need another proof of 70 s superiority?

easy: I found almost impossible to pick an OVERRATED PLAYER.There is none, which shows how tough guys were back then atop.I mentioned Ashe because I had to name somebody anyway, and he lacked some consistent results for some slots of time but, talent wise and major records wise he is by no means OVERRATED
Click to expand...

Roddick is underrated not overrated, but the most underrated player of the OO's is probably Hewitt. Overrated is maybe David Ferrer apparently the best to never win a slam according to some...
 
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