So what happens when Fed's 20 is surpassed?

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Deleted member 777746

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The Slam race, long considered the defining metric of GOAThood is now tighter than ever. Currently, Roger Federer, Rafael Nadal, and Novak Djokovic top the list with 20, 20, and 17 slams respectively. However, as the numbers indicate, Rafael Nadal, Roger Federer's arch nemesis currently has the same number of slams as him, and is 5 years younger, give or take. With what's likely a full year of tennis with 4 chances to add to his total, and Rolland Garros almost certainly in the bag, Mr. Nadal's chances of breaking Federer's record seem reasonably certain. Unfortunately, it gets even worse for Mr. Federer, as Mr. Nadal holds a commanding 24-16 h2h lead over him, with a scorching 10-4 lead in Grand Slams, one of which was on Federer's best slam at the peak of his powers while Federer was unable to reciprocate to Nadal at his pet slam, the French Open.

For years analysts, players, pundits, and forum fans have had us convinced that Roger Federer is not only the best player in history, but the best player imaginable. It seems their imaginations are about to be stretched.

My question is simple - what happens when he's passed? Will the player(s) who surpass him be considered greater than him, as he was considered greater than them while they were beneath him? Or will there be a new cadre of arguments to support a player with lesser slams being greater than those who have surpassed him based on subjective/judgment based factors, something that was previously met with mockery and derision?

What do you think?
 
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Cupcake

Cupcake

Hall of Fame
I wouldn't mind if Nadal and Fed remain tied at 20 forever, ...and Djokovic ends up with 19. Gotta have something to discuss lol. But these are just words, not reality.

However it turns out, it's been grand to watch!
 
D

Deleted member 748597

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K-H said:
Lol he's already in the GOAT debate.

I'm not saying he's the GOAT, but he's deffo already in the convo.
If you don't think rafa is in the debate yet, I can't imagine how far your think Novak is...
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Djokovic enters the GOAT debate with 19 Slams unless Rafa reaches 22.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Pete Prime said:
The Slam race, long considered the defining metric of GOAThood
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1) No, we've seen many continue to suggest that Laver was a greater player than Sampras after Pete retired, for example, so there seems to be no universally accepted metric, certainly not slam count.
2) Only a simpleton would rely on slam count as there were times both before the open era and even after the open era (Connors at the French, for example) when players were excluded from playing the slams for reasons of tennis politics, so slam count is a fatally flawed metric.
3) The issue will never be resolved in a universally accepted conclusion.
 
J

Jonesy

Legend
Since they created that criteria might as well aplly it. Nadal is on the brink of solo goathood unless Fed can win Wimby.
 
socallefty

socallefty

G.O.A.T.
Most tennis experts probably stopped thinking of Federer as the GOAT a long time ago based on his lousy head-to-head against his top two rivals - if you can’t beat the best, you can‘t be the best. They probably anticipated that both Nadal and Djokovic would zoom past his Slam count and Djokovic will skate past his #1 weeks record. Everything is happening as common sense dictated except that the COVID-cancelled Wimbledon and USO default makes Djokovic a couple of Slams behind schedule.

When Nadal passes Federer, Fed’s fairy godmother (Mirka?) will turn him back into a ‘pumpkin’ or at least the pony-tailed non-suave, baggy-clothed noob he used to be:happydevil:
 
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Deleted member 777746

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USO said:
Djokovic enters the GOAT debate at 24 slams. I value the Olympic
Stop making a fool of yourself.
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So Nadal is extra GOATy when he gets 21 since he has one in Singles
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Federer will always be the GOAT in this forum. This forum is ruled by Federer fans, and the vast majority of them will never acknowledge Nadal as the GOAT.

Obviously, really objective Federer fans like Beatlesfan will indeed acknowledge Nadal as the GOAT if he surpasses Federer's Slam count. But that will be a minority view, and thus Federer will always be the GOAT here regardless of Nadal's Slam count.
 
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Deleted member 777746

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Sport said:
Obviously, really objective Federer fans like Beatlesfan will indeed acknowledge Nadal as the GOAT is he surpasses Federer's Slam count. But that will be a minority view, and thus Federer will always be the GOAT here regardless of Nadal's Slam count.
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This cracked me up. God bless you sir.
 
DSH

DSH

Talk Tennis Guru
Sport said:
Federer will always be the GOAT in this forum. This forum is ruled by Federer fans, and the vast majority of them will never acknowledge Nadal as the GOAT.

Obviously, really objective Federer fans like Beatlesfan will indeed acknowledge Nadal as the GOAT is he surpasses Federer's Slam count. But that will be a minority view, and thus Federer will always be the GOAT here regardless of Nadal's Slam count.
Click to expand...
:giggle::-D:laughing:
 
P

PilotPete

Hall of Fame
Don't you already know the answer OP? Federer is ahead of Sampras by 6 slams, yet you still consider Sampras better than Federer. Need anymore be said?
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
If Nadal gets 21 and Fed is still on 20, Nadal is GOAT IMO. He'll have a lot more Masters, equal YE#1 (though not weeks, clearly), OSG, leading H2H against Federer, absolute domination of a single surface, multiple slams on each surface, better longevity etc. I would say that would be enough to put him ahead of Federer if he also has the slam record. As it stands, I essentially consider them co-GOATs. Maybe I'd pick Fed with a gun to my head, but the margins are razor thin and I vacillate. And yes, even if his 21st slam is RG, I would still consider him GOAT
 
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Deleted member 748597

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Towny said:
If Nadal gets 21 and Fed is still on 20, Nadal is GOAT IMO. He'll have a lot more Masters, equal YE#1 (though not weeks, clearly), OSG, leading H2H against Federer, absolute domination of a single surface, multiple slams on each surface, better longevity etc. I would say that would be enough to put him ahead of Federer if he also has the slam record. As it stands, I essentially consider them co-GOATs. Maybe I'd pick Fed with a gun to my head, but the margins are razor thin and I vacillate. And yes, even if his 21st slam is RG, I would still consider him GOAT
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But Pancho is GOAT.
 
GabeT

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Towny said:
If Nadal gets 21 and Fed is still on 20, Nadal is GOAT IMO. He'll have a lot more Masters, equal YE#1 (though not weeks, clearly), OSG, leading H2H against Federer, absolute domination of a single surface, multiple slams on each surface, better longevity etc. I would say that would be enough to put him ahead of Federer if he also has the slam record. As it stands, I essentially consider them co-GOATs. Maybe I'd pick Fed with a gun to my head, but the margins are razor thin and I vacillate. And yes, even if his 21st slam is RG, I would still consider him GOAT
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If you have a gun to your head you may have bigger worries than who is the GOAT
 
R

Robert F

Hall of Fame
I think for the next 5 to 10 years, Federer will remain in the argument. Everyone that jumped on the Fed train will struggle to let go of it, me included. Fed sold us with his early domination and playing style plus the fact that even now we miss his playing style. But as time goes on, I think the numbers will weigh heavier for new fans, new athletes, new announcers. In 15 years when they are debating GOATs, the generation of that time will say Djoker or Nadal (based on slam count probably, unless a new metric takes over) as GOAT and that maybe some New comer can come close. Then an older announcer or pundit, say Paul Annacone will add don't forget Sampras or Federer, they led these guys to be as great as they are.

Laver and Borg have fallen behind generally in GOAThood due to their dwindling/dying fan base and the reality of their numbers compared to the big 3. Same will happen to Fed and possibly Nadal/Djoker if their records are surpassed.
Damn imagine tennis in 2050, goes to best of 3 sets Fast 4 and they add one slam in China. Some guy has an unreturnable serve and in 4 years gets 12 slams, does this guy get asterisked? Or does the new generation assume he is better since he wins so many slams?
 
Rosstour

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Yes, I'd put Nadal above Federer the moment he wins 21. For now, I have Federer ahead still, but not by much.
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So why have Fed on there at all?

Rafa already has a winning H2H and a gold medal. 21 (shoot, 27 IMO) is only a matter of time.
 
ollinger

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
With a tie at 20 slams, I give Fed the slight nod due to weeks at number one. Once Nadal gets 21 slams, I put him ahead.
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This is what I find amusing about this whole GOAT thing -- 15 to 20 years of playing professional tennis for these guys and one tournament win could reverse someone's opinion about who the best was. It seems a little silly when you think about it.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
ollinger said:
This is what I find amusing about this whole GOAT thing -- 15 to 20 years of playing professional tennis for these guys and one tournament win could reverse someone's opinion about who the best was. It seems a little silly when you think about it.
Click to expand...

Happened for me, when Federer got 15 and moved ahead of Sampras in 09, despite having less weeks at number one. I don't see any reason to change that. And here it is a little bit more easier, as I don't believe in GOAT, but I do believe there is a greatest of every era and Federer and Nadal played during the same time. If Nadal has 21, then he is greater for me. That's just my take on it.
 
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