16yo Mirra Andreeva vs. 43yo Venus Williams next week in Cleveland. First round.

J

JustMy2Cents

Hall of Fame
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1692688785912246291
:oops:

Folks are mentioning prior such meetings:
reminiscent of a 17 yo naomi osaka playing 44 yo kimiko date - and kimiko won!

thought Roger vs FAA at Halle 2021 was some sort of record with 19year age gap, but i guess this takes the cake lol

surpasses Thiem(18 year old) vs Muster(44 year old) in Vienna 2011

at RG 2022, I heard Rafa created a record for beating a younger opponent with the largest age gap 13 years at a GS Final... is that right?







55
 
Razer

Razer

Legend
JustMy2Cents said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1692688785912246291
:oops:

Folks are mentioning prior such meetings:
reminiscent of a 17 yo naomi osaka playing 44 yo kimiko date - and kimiko won!

thought Roger vs FAA at Halle 2021 was some sort of record with 19year age gap, but i guess this takes the cake lol

surpasses Thiem(18 year old) vs Muster(44 year old) in Vienna 2011

at RG 2022, I heard Rafa created a record for beating a younger opponent with the largest age gap 13 years at a GS Final... is that right?






55
Click to expand...

Why a grand slam final is being highlighted here ?

Djokovic defeated Alcaraz and Rune in slams who have 16 years age gap with him, that is a big gap in a slam
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
Venus was already basically past it when Andreeva was born (except at the summer grass exhibition). Amazing scenes.
 
ibbi

ibbi

G.O.A.T.
MichaelNadal said:
The hyperbole is off the charts. Venus was literally the highest grossing player on tour in 2017, reaching 3 of the 5 biggest tournament finals that hear and having good results basically everywhere.
Click to expand...
It wasn't hyperbole, it was a JOKE!

stone-cold-steve-austin-stone-cold-stunner.gif
 
Subway Tennis

Subway Tennis

Legend
The mention of Thiem vs Muster really puts this in perspective for me.

I love Muster but that match was almost a carnival sideshow. Muster at that time had been retired for years and just came back for the hell of it and was nowhere near able to stand up to the rigours of playing.

Even in Kimiko Date Krumm’s case she was doing well to be competing on tour in her 40s, but her body had endured nowhere near the wear and tear of Venus, as Kimiko Date Krumm stopped playing for over a decade before making a comeback.

It’s crazy to think the miles Venus has put in in the court playing high intensity to this advanced age without really ever taking a season off, and it’s not like she hasn’t had bad injuries (back injury, wrist injury.)

There is definitely something about her. She has had this recurring youthfulness that goes in cycles in her career. I remember seeing her playing live in a match in 2012, and at that stage she was a seasoned pro in her 30s but up close she had a face like a teenager.
 
Benf15harp

Benf15harp

Hall of Fame
Subway Tennis said:
The mention of Thiem vs Muster really puts this in perspective for me.

I love Muster but that match was almost a carnival sideshow. Muster at that time had been retired for years and just came back for the hell of it and was nowhere near able to stand up to the rigours of playing.

Even in Kimiko Date Krumm’s case she was doing well to be competing on tour in her 40s, but her body had endured nowhere near the wear and tear of Venus, as Kimiko Date Krumm stopped playing for over a decade before making a comeback.

It’s crazy to think the miles Venus has put in in the court playing high intensity to this advanced age without really ever taking a season off, and it’s not like she hasn’t had bad injuries (back injury, wrist injury.)

There is definitely something about her. She has had this recurring youthfulness that goes in cycles in her career. I remember seeing her playing live in a match in 2012, and at that stage she was a seasoned pro in her 30s but up close she had a face like a teenager.
Click to expand...
Well, don’t tell anyone but Venus has been retired since October 2019.
 
Mark-Touch

Mark-Touch

Legend
JustMy2Cents said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1692688785912246291
:oops:

Folks are mentioning prior such meetings:
reminiscent of a 17 yo naomi osaka playing 44 yo kimiko date - and kimiko won!

thought Roger vs FAA at Halle 2021 was some sort of record with 19year age gap, but i guess this takes the cake lol

surpasses Thiem(18 year old) vs Muster(44 year old) in Vienna 2011

at RG 2022, I heard Rafa created a record for beating a younger opponent with the largest age gap 13 years at a GS Final... is that right?






55
Click to expand...
She's literally old enough to be her grandmother!
 
A

aus89

Hall of Fame
RS said:
You don't think it still takes hug commitment. We could use this logic about any player.
Click to expand...
she didnt have to go through painful rehab for a hamstring and knee injury if she didn't want to play - I'd say thats much worse than qualies or 125k - she's still winning and competitve at WTA Tour level - maybe not a whole tournament but certainly she can win any match and was doing well on tour as recently as 2018 before injury hit so... idk i feel like some people just don't like Venus for some... reason... ... couldn't think why...
 
nounforcederrors

nounforcederrors

Hall of Fame
Aside from the general problems of age and the usual sports injuries, Venus also has an underlying Sjogren's Syndrome to contend with.
I'm not particularly a Williams fan, but I do sympathize with Venus obviously missing the sport so much she's willing to be humiliated time after time in early round exits.
 
F

fed1

Professional
aus89 said:
she didnt have to go through painful rehab for a hamstring and knee injury if she didn't want to play - I'd say thats much worse than qualies or 125k - she's still winning and competitve at WTA Tour level - maybe not a whole tournament but certainly she can win any match and was doing well on tour as recently as 2018 before injury hit so... idk i feel like some people just don't like Venus for some... reason... ... couldn't think why...
Click to expand...
Simple question, if she wasn’t getting wild cards would she “love tennis“ and still be playing. Highly doubt it.
Also, what’s your definition of competitive, she has won 3 matches all year. How laughable is “as recently as 2018”, that’s 5.5 years ago !!!! How about from 2021-2022 she won 3 matches !!
Take your “couldn’t think why” garbage someplace else and deal in facts , the fact is that more often than not she’s not competitive!!
 
M

merwy

G.O.A.T.
Thiem vs Muster will always be such an awesome match up. Two completely different generations. Pretty cool that it was Thiem’s first atp match.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Mark-Touch said:
I was talking about in theory, not in practice.
Click to expand...

It would involve non-consensual sex but it is biologically possible, sure. But then again, it’s possible to be a grandmother at 20 by that standard. Where there’s no statutory rape (or the legal equivalent in other countries - 16 as the age of consent isn’t rare), the minimum age at which one can be a grandmother is 33.5, by which standard, Venus is not old enough to be her grandmother.
 
Mark-Touch

Mark-Touch

Legend
helterskelter said:
It would involve non-consensual sex but it is biologically possible, sure. But then again, it’s possible to be a grandmother at 20 by that standard. Where there’s no statutory rape (or the legal equivalent in other countries - 16 as the age of consent isn’t rare), the minimum age at which one can be a grandmother is 33.5, by which standard, Venus is not old enough to be her grandmother.
Click to expand...
Why does everyone assume the U.S. to be the "gold standard" by which all other countries in the world must obey?
Venus is PHYSICALLY old enough to be her grandmother.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Mark-Touch said:
Why does everyone assume the U.S. to be the "gold standard" by which all other countries in the world must obey?
Venus is PHYSICALLY old enough to be her grandmother.
Click to expand...

I didn’t assume that: as I said, 16 is the age of consent in many countries. I am not from the USA. My country of origin also has 16 as the age of consent. (Actually, 16 is not the age of consent everywhere in the USA).

As I said, anyone of 20 or more is physically old enough to be someone’s grandmother. But that’s a horrible metric to use.
 
Mark-Touch

Mark-Touch

Legend
helterskelter said:
I didn’t assume that: as I said, 16 is the age of consent in many countries. I am not from the USA. My country of origin also has 16 as the age of consent. (Actually, 16 is not the age of consent everywhere in the USA).

As I said, anyone of 20 or more is physically old enough to be someone’s grandmother. But that’s a horrible metric to use.
Click to expand...
It could be considered a horrible metric. It depends on your mindset. :)
But Venus is not just 20 yrs. old, she's 43 yrs. old.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Mark-Touch said:
It could be considered a horrible metric. It depends on your mindset. :)
But Venus is not just 20 yrs. old, she's 43 yrs. old.
Click to expand...

If Andreeva were a baby, then Venus could be her grandmother with no issues. But when Andreeva was born, Venus was 26 years and 10 months old. Given roughly 18 months for two pregnancies, that means an average of just over twelve and a half years old at time of getting pregnant for both Venus and her daughter (who in this scenario is andreeva’s mother). Both mum and grandmother would be victims of rape for Venus to be andreeva’s grandmother. So, yes, Venus could be andreeva’s grandmother but only in a horrible trail of abuse.

If your mindset is different, you need to change your mindset.
 
Mark-Touch

Mark-Touch

Legend
helterskelter said:
If Andreeva were a baby, then Venus could be her grandmother with no issues. But when Andreeva was born, Venus was 26 years and 10 months old. Given roughly 18 months for two pregnancies, that means an average of just over twelve and a half years old at time of getting pregnant for both Venus and her daughter (who in this scenario is andreeva’s mother). Both mum and grandmother would be victims of rape for Venus to be andreeva’s grandmother. So, yes, Venus could be andreeva’s grandmother but only in a horrible trail of abuse.

If your mindset is different, you need to change your mindset.
Click to expand...
First I said it was possible, I didn't say likely.
Second. I don't know how people immediately jump to the abuse/rape end of the spectrum immediately.
There are areas of the world present and former where mothers' had their babies at age 12.
My mom had her first baby at 18!
And no, she wasn't r_ped.

How did you get to use the 'rape' word? I just tried it (past tense) and was censored.
 
H

helterskelter

G.O.A.T.
Mark-Touch said:
First I said it was possible, I didn't say likely.
Second. I don't know how people immediately jump to the abuse/rape end of the spectrum immediately.
There are areas of the world present and former where mothers' had their babies at age 12.
My mom had her first baby at 18!
And no, she wasn't r_ped.

How did you get to use the 'rape' word? I just tried it (past tense) and was censored.
Click to expand...

18 is very different from 12. (So I would have had no issue with you saying that someone 37 years older than someone else could be their grandmother).

12-year-olds are not emotionally ready for pregnancy and motherhood. Yes, it happened. Yes, it still happens. But that is also true of many other forms of abuse. Their brains just aren’t sufficiently developed to make that sort of choice.
 
M

Midaso240

Legend
Williams has withdrawn, something that will probably happen a lot in the coming years if she wants to play to 50 like she talked about
 
A

aus89

Hall of Fame
fed1 said:
Simple question, if she wasn’t getting wild cards would she “love tennis“ and still be playing. Highly doubt it.
Also, what’s your definition of competitive, she has won 3 matches all year. How laughable is “as recently as 2018”, that’s 5.5 years ago !!!! How about from 2021-2022 she won 3 matches !!
Take your “couldn’t think why” garbage someplace else and deal in facts , the fact is that more often than not she’s not competitive!!
Click to expand...
Wildcards are for players coming back from injury - she's been injured since Aus Open 2021 and was out for most of 21/22, only really came back at the US Open 2022. Her level has been clearly much higher in 2023 even with injuries... if you wanna talk about garbage arguments.
 
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Sudacafan

Sudacafan

Bionic Poster
aus89 said:
Wildcards are for players coming back from injury - she's been injured since Aus Open 2021 and was out for most of 21/22, only really came back at the US Open 2022. Her level has been clearly much higher in 2023 even with injuries... if you wanna talk about garbage arguments.
Click to expand...
Wildcards should also be given to players coming back from pregnancy.
 
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